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Hello everybody! First things first, I still play FM21. Yeah I know, but anyway...

Yesterday, watching back a match I noticed something. So, I watched other matches and saw it again! Apparently something is not working as I want it to. What is that you say? OK, let me tell you!

I use a 4-3-3 DM Wide, nothing fancy here. In Midfield I use a DM on support in the DM slot, and an CM on support in the MCL spot and a MEZ on attack in the MCR spot. Hope you understand the roles and duties.

The DM has the PI "Hold Position". I noticed that in multiple matches, out of possession, the DM does his "closing down", "marking", higher up the pitch than both of my MC's and I'm wondering does the "Hold Position" intsruction tells him to stay where he is supposed to "hold" when we are in possession (which is in front of the halfway line)? 

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Your playing him on a support duty so he will get forward and support attacks, the role description in the game explains this.

The support duty will give the player a bigger area to cover in the midfield, the hold position will just give him the instruction to not move from this area, it’s not a given though, anything can happen to make him stray a little.

Also what traits does the player have?

I think with the behaviour your looking for it’s best to use a defend duty.

 

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25 minutes ago, Hilly1979 said:

so he will get forward and support attacks

I expect him to do this when we are in possession. But he leaves his position when we are not in possession. In that recent game I was telling in the OP, the opponent's GK passed the ball to his right CM, somewhere in the DM area (Zone 8). My DM then rushed to mark him, leaving acres of space behind him and of course after some attacking movement we conceded an easy goal.

He has only the trait "Plays Short Simple Passes", nothing else. There is his profile:

2f4d952d85e009d6cfce16ae76dc2415.png

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There's nothing in his profile to suggest he will ignore tactics and do his own thing. He has decent positioning and mentals. His teamwork is ok so he should generally do what he's told.

Making him a DM(d) should solve your issues when you're out of possession but if you want him supporting attacks, that would obviously be a problem.

Probably a stupid suggestion but in the past I have unknowingly had a DM marking a specific opposition player. Before a game I must've told him to mark an opposition AM but forgot to press 'next match only' or whatever that's option called where you can make temporary changes immediately before going into a game. This meant that I had permanently altered my tactic so that my DM was running around after specific players in games where I didn't want him to do that. Is it worth checking you haven't done something similar because that might explain why he's running after a CM like a headless chicken?

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Lumbertubs said:

mark an opposition AM

Good shout! I'll check it later, although I don't think I ever told him that. Thanks!

Here is a footage of him surging to mark the opponent:

https://i.gyazo.com/f64631bcd896cd1aa54817c55c58e4a4.mp4

(Hope the link works)

PS: And of course he doesn't mark a specific player!

 

Edited by vkastanas
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His starting position in that clip is alongside Murray who, from what you've said, I'm assuming is the left sided CM and someone you'd prefer to be pressing the opposition CM rather than Bignot. But instead, Murray is hanging back as if he's the one playing as the DM.

That does seem strange. Bignot's running off like an un-neutered dog despite being told to hold position in front of the back four and not having any traits that would result in him acting like that. Sorry, I'm all out of ideas.

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Bignot is very hardworking and aggressive, it's not surprising he closes a player down when nobody else does, especially on a support duty which means he isn't supposed to just stick around in front of the back four. General team high pressing instructions and instructions to always close a player down might encourage him to do it more too.

Hard to say it's even a bad decision in that clip - the space he leaves behind contains one forward marked by two defenders with Murray also nearby and he gets right up in the opponent's face to limit his passing options; if anything I'd be more concerned if Murray has a habit of doing nothing useful in the way of pressing or covering.

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3 hours ago, vkastanas said:

My DM then rushed to mark him, leaving acres of space behind him and of course after some attacking movement we conceded an easy goal.

That is quite common for a DM especially for a support duty to do such a thing consider 4-4-2 DM a lot of the time either the most defensive of the two will get stretched to the flanks when out of possession and because neither are actually midfielders they have to engage early to prevent conceding long shots. Honestly I'm more concerned about Murray who at least should be marking position or should be pressing urgently, if you wanted Bignot to stay deep then your only going to give the opponent the time and space to pick the best pass possible so you need to get Murray to engage with the player or sub Murray if you don't him to get a second yellow.

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51 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Bignot is very hardworking and aggressive

Because of his attributes he can ignore position, role, duty and PI's?

52 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

team high pressing

That's something to consider in the next match. I do use high pressing!

53 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

always close a player down

That was not the case luckily!

 

53 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

the space he leaves behind contains one forward marked by two defenders with Murray also nearby and he gets right up in the opponent's face to limit his passing options

OK, but that didn't happen as the opponent MC, controlled the ball easily, moved to the left and passed it to the winger, who then run with it before passing it to the Striker (in the chanel) for an easy goal!

56 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Murray has a habit of doing nothing useful in the way of pressing or covering

Will check this out too!

36 minutes ago, De Nile said:

I'm more concerned about Murray who at least should be marking position or should be pressing urgently

That was my initially thought when I watched the game back! I noted: Murray to close down more (or mark specific player if that didn't work)!

Thank you everybady for the replies!

 

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41 minutes ago, vkastanas said:

Because of his attributes he can ignore position, role, duty and PI's?

Absolutely. Same IRL. If a manager asks, say, Fred to play a disciplined defensive role, Fred is still going to do a bit of ball chasing and get caught out of position on occasion because Fred's an aggressive ball chaser with comparatively average positional awareness.

Plus as others have pointed out his actual instructions are to be a defensive midfielder that defends fairly high up the park and participates in the team's high press. "Hold position" in that context is an instruction not to burst into the box, not to stay close to his centre halves and let the player in front of him cross the halfway line before considering putting him under any pressure. If you want him to play like an anchor man, there's the anchor man role for that. But you might find his habit of closing down when your other midfielder for whatever reason isn't interested actually solves more problems than it causes overall...

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Actually, I want him to get further forward when we have possession but I want him to stick around defence when we don't have the ball. That's why I am not using a ball winner. But if he acts like one then I have a problem. 

Would you try another player there with a different set of attributes to see if he acts likewise? 

 

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38 minutos atrás, vkastanas disse:

Actually, I want him to get further forward when we have possession but I want him to stick around defence when we don't have the ball. That's why I am not using a ball winner. But if he acts like one then I have a problem. 

I think that you are looking for a Half Back, although maybe you haven´t noticed it yet.

I am also still playing FM 21 and what I see using a Half Back is a DM that drops into defence on the early build-up, but moves around and forward to help recycle possession in the center when we are attacking (but not too much, he does not move into the area for example).

I also have a friend that tried a 3 at the back system using two CBs and a HB. One of this complains was exactly that the HB used to move forward in possession, leaving the two CBs alone - something that he didn´t want as the CBs were his only true defensive line.

Maybe it is easier to try and use the HB than a DM-Su, which I think may overcomplicate things here. I also think that a DLP-Su also has some "under the hood" behaviours that will make him stick more on position than a DM-Su, you can also try him.

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Be sure that I'll try it. I did use a HB when the opposition played with 3 ST's! 

The reasoning behind a DM was that is a "virgin" (generic) role that I can do what ever I want with it. I can mould it however I want! 

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3 minutes ago, bosque said:

Doesn't the regista goes forward when the team is in possession and holds his DM position when defending?

That is interesting! But I think it's a more technical role which my player (look above) can't play! 

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The in game description of the Regista is this:

84c11e23cc6495f6c121b6c22ae9f3a0.png

His key attributes are: First Touch, Passing, Technique, Composure, Decisions, Flair, Off the Ball, Teamwork and Vision.

His preferables are: Dribbling, Long Shots, Anticipation and Balance.

It's obvious that Bignot can't play there! 

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22 minutos atrás, vkastanas disse:

The in game description of the Regista is this:

84c11e23cc6495f6c121b6c22ae9f3a0.png

His key attributes are: First Touch, Passing, Technique, Composure, Decisions, Flair, Off the Ball, Teamwork and Vision.

His preferables are: Dribbling, Long Shots, Anticipation and Balance.

It's obvious that Bignot can't play there! 

The Regista is basically a Number 10 on the DM spot. He can be amazing on the right system but I don´t think that is what you are looking for.

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I've skimmed through all the posts here quickly so i might have missed it, but how high is his trigger press setting? couldn't it be something as simple as dropping that down a tad?

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24 minutes ago, vkastanas said:

Still in FM21 so no trigger press, but he is not instructed anything! So just standard!

It's not like it's really that different, just a different name for it, have you tried having it on less than standard?

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23 hours ago, vkastanas said:

No, not really but i'm sure I will now! Thanks!

That should help.  FYI, 'hold position' is under 'when team has the ball' so should not affect defensive actions except that it will sometimes affect where your DM might be when you lose the ball.

Your player has super high aggression and work rate, so I'm not surprised that he charges forwards to take on unmarked ball carriers.  

On 03/08/2022 at 10:54, vkastanas said:

Alternating between this and a BWM on support currently! The BWM works better....Thoughts?

that's puzzling

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