433 dm wide tactics and instructions

[9as1892]

Hi, I have set up using 433 dm wide on fm21 and hit a bit of a rut so I'm looking for advice for tweaks to my tactics and instructions. I have attached a photo of how I am lining up most of the time. A few things I have been debating /changing include:

Instructing the AP to roam from position as well as get forward?

BBM or BWM as the partner to AP?

Support or attack duty on wingbacks?

How high to set defensive line and line of engagement?

Is 2 BPD a good idea with this set up?

Sometimes I have experimented with the LW being IF (Su) and the striker as AF but this has mainly been used in a more attacking variant.

Any comments and advice appreciated, TIA.

 

[glengarry224]

Too hard to answer without knowing how you are struggling.  Not scoring enough?  High Xg but not enough goals?  Teams killing you on the counter?  Low possession?

[9as1892]

3 hours ago, glengarry224 said:

Too hard to answer without knowing how you are struggling.  Not scoring enough?  High Xg but not enough goals?  Teams killing you on the counter?  Low possession?

Should have mentioned this. A bit of all the first 3 - not scoring enough is the definitely the main problem, among the worst in the league for goals scored. Xg is not very high and scoring rate is a little below that. I think possession is fine but I am exposed on the counter. Conceding from crosses was another weakness, I have bought taller centre backs to combat this but presumably still giving away too many quality crossing opportunities.

Having read some more of the guides on this site since posting, I have made a couple of adjustments and this https://imgur.com/a/j72rt6H is how I'm currently setting up.

[maztheplaya]

In terms of scoring goals your set up doesn't really have a clear goal scoring role. Your striker is on support and will drop deep and only the 2 IWs on Attack will try and attack the box, but they will be more involved in the build up since you have focus on the flanks on.

If you want more goals switching your striker to an AF would be a quick change, if you want to keep your striker dropping deep then I would change the AML to an Inside Forward on attack this way he will constantly try and get into the box and exploit the space left by the striker and the AP to a CM(A) to ensure another body in the box this way there will be more movement vertically from your team, you could also tweak the player instructions add Dribble More and Take More Risks to play more like an AP in the build but will also get in the box.

Also having a CM(D) limits how involved that player will be in the game, here I would go for a Carilero if you want to cover for the WB(A) on that side. Another option would be a CM(S) while moving the DLP to defend, DLP is sitting role having Hold Position hard locked on both duties so going to defense would ensure a bit more stability in defense and would open up changing the fullback on the right to a Wingback since you have an IW on that side you need to have a bit more width which the Wingback offers.

[Overmars]

Part of the problem has to be Wilson as a DLF(s). That feels like the wrong role for him -- or maybe he just isn't a top half of the league starting player in any role.

[9as1892]

8 hours ago, maztheplaya said:

In terms of scoring goals your set up doesn't really have a clear goal scoring role. Your striker is on support and will drop deep and only the 2 IWs on Attack will try and attack the box, but they will be more involved in the build up since you have focus on the flanks on.

If you want more goals switching your striker to an AF would be a quick change, if you want to keep your striker dropping deep then I would change the AML to an Inside Forward on attack this way he will constantly try and get into the box and exploit the space left by the striker and the AP to a CM(A) to ensure another body in the box this way there will be more movement vertically from your team, you could also tweak the player instructions add Dribble More and Take More Risks to play more like an AP in the build but will also get in the box.

Also having a CM(D) limits how involved that player will be in the game, here I would go for a Carrilero if you want to cover for the WB(A) on that side. Another option would be a CM(S) while moving the DLP to defend, DLP is sitting role having Hold Position hard locked on both duties so going to defense would ensure a bit more stability in defense and would open up changing the fullback on the right to a Wingback since you have an IW on that side you need to have a bit more width which the Wingback offers.

I wanted to keep the idea of the striker dropping deep so opted for an IF, but flipped the formation so its Moukoko providing the bigger threat on the right. After the changes in midfield as well I've had some early signs of success. So thanks a lot for the tips, they seem to be working!

[glengarry224]

Yes, you needed to switch one of your forwards to a role which tries to get in behind to provide some threat to the backline.  With 'Balanced' mentality, a striker who drops deep, 2 IWs, and deep DL and LOE, you provide no threat to your oppponent's backline and it's too easy for them to organize their defense. 

This is the same reason it's hard to counter from your tactic:  your are starting very deep, on balanced mentality, with WBIB.  Yes, starting deep draws out your opponent but you have a long way to go to goal.  If your players are exceptionally quick and good long passers, you have a very solid defense, and you have a good finisher, this can work though.  Think of Tottenham when they played City or Liverpool.  But you must have a very fast player attacking the backline, like Son.  Probably need to raise mentality a bit.

It's a bit hard to figure out how you want to create goals.  On the one hand, it seems like you want your LB to swing in crosses, because he is on WB(a), you have focus left (and right), overlap left.  However, if that is what you want, you need players attacking the box more for your LB to target.  Switching the AML to IF is ok but not ideal for this because they are on the same side. It could work a bit but you should get 1-2 of these 3 positions charging forward:  striker, AMR, or RCM - you could switch the AP to CM(a), for example.  Also, you are starting so deep and on balanced.  Maybe try positive, raise your DL and LOE one notch each, tick 'pass into space' (maybe untick WBIB).  You probably don't need overlap left because WB(a) is a naturally overlapping role and the overlap instruction only lowers the mentality of the other players even more.  Higher tempo seems good if your players have pretty good ant/dec.

Why are you playing wide?  Are your players very good passers and good ant/otb/acc?  If so, maybe try a bit longer passing.  But you should give your IF(a) the PI to sit narrower.  Also, wider can also work well against teams which park the bus and you can try to spread them out and move them back and forth.  If you are a superior team and that's what you want, you likely need to put your AP or AMR on support and maybe get your RB a bit further forward, like WB(s); raise mentality to positive; and also raise your DL and LOE a bit.

If you want instead to build up play and have your right side and center to be creative and feed the AML-IF as primary scorer, then take off focus left and put either your AP or AMR on support.  That supporting player and the DLF will then be the creative fulcrum.

It might seem like raising the DL could cause you more defensive problems but it might be the opposite.  As is, it is extremely easy for your opponent to move the ball upfield into your final third and just attack you.  It can work but with this match engine it's difficult to get a lower DL to work.  Are the crosses coming in from your left flank?  I like how you switched sides with the CMs.  CM(d) will cover the left flank much better but maybe have him play wider or could he play BWM, which chases and breaks down play more?

I've written too many ideas to try all at once, sorry.

Edited July 10, 2022 by glengarry224