Are fluid formations an option?

[system876]

I was wondering if it is possible to play 4-3-3 in offense and defend in a 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 asymmetric were one of the 8's push up to support the striker and the 6 will push up to cover the space left behind by the 8 if not this is really something that should be implemented in the future release to allow the user full control over tactics like in the real world, there is already the option in games such as FIFA and eFootball/PES.

[jdmk88]

This is exactly what I need and actually used to be included in old FM/CM's. You could draw arrows indicating where players would be whilst you had possession. 

[HUNT3R]

7 hours ago, system876 said:

I was wondering if it is possible to play 4-3-3 in offense and defend in a 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 asymmetric were one of the 8's push up to support the striker and the 6 will push up to cover the space left behind by the 8 if not this is really something that should be implemented in the future release to allow the user full control over tactics like in the real world, there is already the option in games such as FIFA and eFootball/PES.

The formation is the players' starting positions and largely the defensive shape. Your shape in possession will be affected by the roles and duties you choose.

[Tsuru]

14 horas atrás, system876 disse:

I was wondering if it is possible to play 4-3-3 in offense and defend in a 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 asymmetric were one of the 8's push up to support the striker and the 6 will push up to cover the space left behind by the 8 if not this is really something that should be implemented in the future release to allow the user full control over tactics like in the real world, there is already the option in games such as FIFA and eFootball/PES.

In terms of match engine/tactical system it is not possible, you cannot select a different formation for each phase of the game. I agree that it would be a nice addition, but it would have to be done very carefully in order to not overcomplicate things.

However...there are ways of doing it in game. For example, I have a friend that designed a 4-4-1-1 which is a 4-4-1-1 in defend but behaves like a 4-4-2 in attack, using a Mezzala and a Shadow Striker. I also created a 4-4-1-1 which used to behave like a 4-2-3-1 when attacking, it was a matter of adjusting the two midfield lateral players using attacking duties and PIs.

Another examples: you can use a 4-4-2 with an inverted winger/wide midfielder cutting inside with the attack duty and create like a 4-3-3 when attacking. Or a 4-1-4-1 DM Wide which defends like a deep 4-1-4-1, maybe a 4-2-3-1 in attack which behaves like a 4-4-1-1 when defending. It needs a little bit of tweaking, testing and patience but with the right use of roles and duties it can be done for sure.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Tsuru

[Prepper_Jack]

What you describe sounds less "fluid" per se, and more like something that is simply structured but transitional. Fluid football is somewhat modeled in game by the use of lots of roaming roles (or roaming personal instructions). Roaming players will typically wander around looking for the best place to receive a ball. Real world fluid football tends to rotate players in and out of position more than the game generally does, however.. though if you do "be more expressive" and use a lot of roaming roles, this can be quite fluid, and sometimes you'll see your strikers crossing to your wingers. Perhaps even more concerning things... like centers pushing forward acting as your striker.

But, if you want a more structured approach, you can kind of do that with a mix of personal tactical instructions, roles, and player traits. If you want a central midfielder to be more like an attacking midfielder or striker in offense, you can give him instructions like "get further forward" and "moves into channels". For central roles you can specify to go wide, and for wide players you can tell them to either stay wide or come inside. Some roles, like the inverted wingback, are more hardcoded and situational. If you have a 4-2-4 with two inverted wingbacks, it essentially becomes a 4-2-2-4 2DM while in offense, and reverts to the 4-2-4 in defense. Others, like the generic Central Midfielder and Attacking Midfielder roles are more modular and customizable in their behavior, but you're not really going to get the flexibility of, say, making that central midfielder behave like an attacking winger while the team has the ball. You might be able to get them wider and cross more, but it's not really going to be the same.

[soft tofu]

Like this. I asked this in reddit but everyone said it's already part of the game. Maybe I'm just playing with below than average players, hence why I can't get the shape perfectly.

But let say there's five channels, will the players occupy the same channel? Example, 4-2-3-1 AF with SS behind him. Would they occupy the central channel or will they make run in different channel?

Currently to have a 4-4-2 like City when defending and attack in a perfect 3-2-5 or 2-3-5 is quite impossible. You would probably need to have asymmetrical 4-4-2 or a 4-4-1-1. But if this is the case, they won't be as perfect as a 4-4-2.

As example, I used this before in my attempt for a 4-4-2 to 3-2-5.

                  SS   SS

       WM   CM                  WP

                              BWM

       FB      CD         CD    WB

What I found from this formation is that the double SS will be lopsided to the left side when out of possession instead of being in the central like a normal front two in a 4-4-2.

[prched55]

Here are a couple threads that talk a little about this: 

The formation you see in the tactical creator are the players starting positions. The roles, duties, PPMs, footedness, etc. all work together to make the movements. This is how I would do it: 

Spoiler

The SS, DLF, and IW make the front 3. WM, DLP, and CM make the middle three. 

And if you want a 5 channel attack, you could change it to this: 

Spoiler

SS and IW attack the half spaces. F9 stays in the middle channel. FB and WM provide width. DLP, CM, and IWB make the 3. 

This is doable. It just won't be perfect and will be lopsided a little bit. 

[SixPointer]

Right now I defend in 4-1-4-1 shape and in attack it’s a 2-3-5 shape. You need to use the formation as your defensive shape and roles and duties to create the movement and transition into the attacking shape. Within reason it can all be achieved. 

[(sic)]

It's possible to an extent. With some formations it's easy and straightforward (like the above example of 4-1-4-1 transforming into a 2-3-5). With some formations it's really hard to do (and usually looks lopsided or completely all over the place), or straight up impossible to do.

On 10/05/2022 at 23:37, system876 said:

were one of the 8's push up to support the striker and the 6 will push up to cover the space left behind by the 8

Sadly something like this isn't possible if your 6 is in a central position (they will somewhat cover that space probably, but not nearly as good as a CM in that spot would, they wouldn't be positioned in a line with the other CM). I really wish they'd allow us to at least move central players to the left or right in possession, if they don't want to add separate attacking and defensive formations.

 

[soft tofu]

On 21/05/2022 at 01:07, prched55 said:

Here are a couple threads that talk a little about this: 

The formation you see in the tactical creator are the players starting positions. The roles, duties, PPMs, footedness, etc. all work together to make the movements. This is how I would do it: 

  Hide contents

The SS, DLF, and IW make the front 3. WM, DLP, and CM make the middle three. 

And if you want a 5 channel attack, you could change it to this: 

  Hide contents

SS and IW attack the half spaces. F9 stays in the middle channel. FB and WM provide width. DLP, CM, and IWB make the 3. 

This is doable. It just won't be perfect and will be lopsided a little bit. 

Heyyo. About those three tactic you shown, won't they be more like a 4-1-4-1 in defend? Midfielder on defend drop deeper right? In my save, he wasn't in the same line as the other CM. And won't the SS still be deeper much like AM? So you won't get a front two?