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What are your thoughts on Player Traits?

Do you bother about them? Do you prefer or dislike certain traits?

Have you ever signed a player without checking his traits? Do they put you off players? I once signed a player I wanted as an Advanced forward with the "Comes deep to get ball" trait and had to spend months training it out of him 

Are some traits essential for a certain role? Like, I always like my playmaker to have the "Dictates Tempo" PPM 

Also, something I didn't realise but is really obvious, Shoot Less Often is negated by "Tries first time shots". I had Troy Deeney playing as Pressing  Forward on Defend and the Pre match info screen let me know  

I'm trying to figure out if "Likes to beat opponent repeatedly" does one thing or another. 

I always find them really interesting and are one of the first things I check on a player now and will flat out put me off a player because I can't be bothered training it out of them :D

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

Do you prefer or dislike certain traits?

I love Dictates Tempo. It's great seeing my playmaker playing a quick first time pass, because he spotted a player running into a gap. Of course I only get 1 or max 2 players in my team to have it and only if they have a high Decisions attribute.

Depending on the player and position/role they play in my team, I like "plays one-twos" as well.

"Knocks ball past opponents" (I think that's the correct wording) is also fantastic for either a fullback or wide midfielder to learn, if their dribbling isn't good enough, but they are fast.

Apart from those 3, the only other traits I will ask my players to train, are finishing related ones. Place shots, shoot with power, lob the keeper, dribble around the keeper etc.

I don't bother with movement traits like comes deep, gets further forward, hug the touchline etc because these are all movement I can control by picking the appropriate role and maybe even modifying that via a PI to get what I want. When buying a player, I do pay attention to these traits as they will (more than other traits, imo) influence how my entire tactic functions, so it can put me off buying a player.

9 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

Do they put you off players? I once signed a player I wanted as an Advanced forward with the "Comes deep to get ball" trait and had to spend months training it out of him 

3 of my 4 strikers have that trait. :mad: 

It used to be just one (and he was the support striker, so that was fine) but then the others learned it too, probably from the same player. It's not always an issue as, in FM22, players make more aggressive runs in general, but there are times when I want a striker sitting on the shoulder of the defense and I don't really have that now. I've tried 3 times in a row (on both players too) to get them to unlearn it, but they just don't.

Stays back at all times is also something I don't like. My starting right back has that. Perfect attributes to be a support player, but often a little too far behind because he doesn't really make forward runs.

They can provide variety, so it's not all bad. For instance, the backup right back has the opposite trait (gets further forward).

17 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

Are some traits essential for a certain role?

This is where, imo, people get it wrong. Player Traits give you (more) variety so you can use 2 players in the same role, but they play the role in different ways.

I often see people teaching, for example, their winger to "run with ball often" when the role already has that instruction. It won't make the player do anything different in the role.

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TL;DR - find a player in the current database that you like / would be a good fit in your team, make a note of the Traits they already have and use that as a starting point (don’t copy) for your own players in similar roles.  Pay attention to their attributes though as they need to be complimentary.

IMO traits are fine so long as 1) you don’t over do them and end up making a player too one dimensional (variety is key); 2) they compliment a player’s attributes; and 3) they compliment the role you want them to perform.  

For example, it’s pointless (for me) telling a defender to mark opponents closely if their marking skills are rubbish (relative to the level they are playing at); asking an Advanced Forward to come deep to get the ball; or telling your main playmaker to dictate the tempo if their decisions / composure are lacking.

Overall I tend take careful note of the traits players already have and their age if buying someone (you can’t unteach old dogs new tricks) and don’t often teach many traits to young players.

I do however like traits such as tries killer balls often if I have a flair player at AMC and runs with ball often for a fast wide player with good dribbling related skills.  Gets forward often for a fullback can also be nice to have so long as you don’t over do that in combination with an aggressive role/mentality.

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10 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

shoot with power

I love this Trait, Deeney has that too, I think it's a misunderstood Trait as some people will think it means the player will blast it over the bar all the time, its the same as any player missing the target. That blasted shot at the back of the net is so satisfying  :D I was never sure wether this was a Technique or Strength thing, the in game Tool tip seems to suggest Strength. With his Traits, Deeney's pretty lethal, even as a PF(D) and Firminho would play out the role much more like how a player should. Like you say, it adds variety  

I'll always remember, I think it was on FM17 playing Isaac Vassell as a right winger, he had the "moves into channels" trait, instead of hugging the touchline with his runs, he could quite often bomb up the inside channel which was pretty different to see 

 

15 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

3 of my 4 strikers have that trait. :mad: 

It used to be just one (and he was the support striker, so that was fine) but then the others learned it too, probably from the same player. It's not always an issue as, in FM22, players make more aggressive runs in general, but there are times when I want a striker sitting on the shoulder of the defense and I don't really have that now. I've tried 3 times in a row (on both players too) to get them to unlearn it, but they just don't.

That's one of the points of the game that irks me, players picking up Traits off other. It can go one way or the other. If it goes the other it can take months or he just flat out won't unlearn it  

Newgens interest me, I've noticed a lot of the top end newgens can come through the youth academy with a whole bunch on Player Traits and the poorer ones have none. I guess that's because the better players has higher attributes in the areas for Player Trait  

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14 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Overall I tend take careful note of the traits players already have and their age if buying someone (you can’t unteach old dogs new tricks) and don’t often teach many traits to young players.

Absolutely, I've made mistakes when signing players over the years or was desperate to to get a player in, I always take note now and will sway my choice when given a few different players to try and sign

The old dog new tricks thing applies to my aging striker, he has no Traits so thought I'd try and get him to learn one, think it was to place shots and the coaches were having none of, I suppose he's played 20 years without so no point in wasting time trying to learn it now 

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54 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

Absolutely, I've made mistakes when signing players over the years or was desperate to to get a player in, I always take note now and will sway my choice when given a few different players to try and sign

The old dog new tricks thing applies to my aging striker, he has no Traits so thought I'd try and get him to learn one, think it was to place shots and the coaches were having none of, I suppose he's played 20 years without so no point in wasting time trying to learn it now 

Yeh, SI confirmed a while ago that as players age it becomes more difficult to learn / unlearn new Traits.  “Old habits die hard” to quote another adage.

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Please don't get me started on "comes deep to get ball" :lol:

I really don't understand why so many pure goalscoring strikers are picking that trait up in FM21/22. And then of course you can't get rid of it because supposedly it suits one of the attributes your player has really well! Same way a lot of full backs/defensive midfielders end up getting cursed by "stays back at all times". Always ironic to see the media description say "attacking fullback" and then the player has "stays back at all times, plays short simple passes" as PPMs. Definitely what I'd associate with an attacking fullback!

Anyway, rant aside, the PPMs I like a lot are plays one-twos, as that's not really something you can selectively encourage on a single player and plays through balls (can't encourage those enough right?). I also really like gets into opposition area/arrives late in box as movement PPMs for CMs, but I very rarely get players that actually can learn it. The occasional player you find that has one of those PPMs though can be an absolute menace.

Other than that, there aren't too many PPMs I actively go out of my way to teach. Round goalkeeper is one I occasionally use with the weird newgen strikers that never learned how to shoot, the other finishing PPMs I'm honestly not sure whether they really make a difference. I've had a lot of "places shots" players and I can't say they felt like more efficient finishers with the PPM than without.

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I’m using this topic to ask you : is it possible that a player never unlearn a PPM (I think it’s that to say Personnal Traits) ?

I have Aaron’s as a IWB. Huge vision, Technique and passing BUT he won’t loose his “Play short and Simple” while he could be the next TAA in my save… really frustrating 

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19 minutes ago, CKBrahMa said:

I’m using this topic to ask you : is it possible that a player never unlearn a PPM (I think it’s that to say Personnal Traits) ?

I have Aaron’s as a IWB. Huge vision, Technique and passing BUT he won’t loose his “Play short and Simple” while he could be the next TAA in my save… really frustrating 

His attributes make it a bit more likely that he can unlearn the PPM, as it does not suit a player with good passing, but once a PPM has been learned it can be incredibly hard to get rid off. Best bet is to push his passing up even further and just keep trying over and over.

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il y a 8 minutes, Freakiie a dit :

His attributes make it a bit more likely that he can unlearn the PPM, as it does not suit a player with good passing, but once a PPM has been learned it can be incredibly hard to get rid off. Best bet is to push his passing up even further and just keep trying over and over.

Ok, I’ll do that. Thanks for the advice ! It was incredible how Laimer could make more killer ball than Aarons only because of this PPM.

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I have a youth player who "gets into opposition area" and "gets further forward" and is very weak physically (no balance no general speed or power) but also has very nice technical and mental stats so on the pitch he knows what he what's to do but doesn't have strength to do it. The traits make him more of an enigma as to how he should be played as with lack of balance and agility he could be easily dispossessed and has no tackling ability either. An enganche? :confused:  

 

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17 minutes ago, De Nile said:

An enganche? :confused:  

Not really, they're not really a get forward type of role, could be interesting though, adds something to his game if it suits

Maybe from the more adventurous midfielder in a 4-3-3 DM?

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9 hours ago, herne79 said:

I do however like traits such as tries killer balls often if I have a flair player at AMC and runs with ball often for a fast wide player with good dribbling related skills.  Gets forward often for a fullback can also be nice to have so long as you don’t over do that in combination with an aggressive role/mentality.

Not wanting to gatecrash this excellent thread, but I’ve read your guides Herne and regarding the trait gets further forward for a full back, would you suggest using a support duty on a balanced mentality as the attack duty may be overkill?

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35 minutes ago, Hilly1979 said:

Not wanting to gatecrash this excellent thread, but I’ve read your guides Herne and regarding the trait gets further forward for a full back, would you suggest using a support duty on a balanced mentality as the attack duty may be overkill?

I’d always suggest watching the player’s movement on the pitch first before making any changes.  One player with that trait may still play the role differently to another player with the same trait as their attributes will be different - for example a fullback with lots of determination, work rate, stamina, pace will get up and down the wing all day long, but another with less det, wr, stam and no legs not so much.

By way of example I seem to recall one system I wrote about where I’d set a fullback as an FB(s) but ended up changing it to a WB(s) because he wasn’t giving effective support going forward.  So a simple change of role rather than duty.  And in a different system I used a WB(d) because my fullback was ageing and his pace was no longer there.

So yeh, it absolutely can work, but watch things first to see if you need to change 👍.

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Perfect example and one of the main areas that concern me, fullbacks with "Gets forward whenever possible" I've moved to Stuttgart, both first choice fullbacks have this trait, my first instinct is to start with a DM or double DM formation. The last manager didn't, pretty sure that's why he got sacked :D Personally, unless I want them getting high up the pitch, I don't look for this trait or if I'm stuck with it, use anchors to cover their movement    

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1 hour ago, Johnny Ace said:

Perfect example and one of the main areas that concern me, fullbacks with "Gets forward whenever possible" I've moved to Stuttgart, both first choice fullbacks have this trait, my first instinct is to start with a DM or double DM formation. The last manager didn't, pretty sure that's why he got sacked :D Personally, unless I want them getting high up the pitch, I don't look for this trait or if I'm stuck with it, use anchors to cover their movement    

Just balance the fullbacks with your chosen mentality and role/duty selection :thup:.  Even a defend duty fullback or wingback will still get forward in support, especially when combined with that trait.

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8 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Just balance the fullbacks with your chosen mentality and role/duty selection :thup:.  Even a defend duty fullback or wingback will still get forward in support, especially when combined with that trait.

I still don't trust them :D

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8 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

What about "tries tricks"? Is it something you'd try to make a player learn? I think it can be nice if you have a kind of a Neymar player for example, with lots of flair

I honestly don't know whether it helps greatly or not, and I play on 2D so I can never tell when a player has performed a trick. But I like to assume it's a good trait for a high technique and flair player, so I try to get those sorts of players to learn it anyway!

Quick question for anybody--most inside forwards/inverted wingers in the game have 'cut inside from [flank]' as a trait. Does it actually do anything if they're already playing as an inside forward/inverted winger, where that instruction is hardcoded?

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11 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

What about "tries tricks"? Is it something you'd try to make a player learn? I think it can be nice if you have a kind of a Neymar player for example, with lots of flair

Yeah, players who are good with the ball at their feet, so things like Technique, Balance, Agility. 

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4 minutes ago, ryandormer said:

Quick question for anybody--most inside forwards/inverted wingers in the game have 'cut inside from [flank]' as a trait. Does it actually do anything if they're already playing as an inside forward/inverted winger, where that instruction is hardcoded?

Not really, I don't think they stack, it's just a pain in the neck if you want to use them as a winger 

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41 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

Not really, I don't think they stack, it's just a pain in the neck if you want to use them as a winger 

I thought that might be the case. Managing Arsenal, the most annoying example I had was the opposite of this--Pepe as a left-footed right winger, with 'Runs with ball down the right.' He refused to unlearn it, and so he never played that position properly.

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1 hour ago, ryandormer said:

I honestly don't know whether it helps greatly or not, and I play on 2D so I can never tell when a player has performed a trick. But I like to assume it's a good trait for a high technique and flair player, so I try to get those sorts of players to learn it anyway!

Quick question for anybody--most inside forwards/inverted wingers in the game have 'cut inside from [flank]' as a trait. Does it actually do anything if they're already playing as an inside forward/inverted winger, where that instruction is hardcoded?

 

55 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

Not really, I don't think they stack, it's just a pain in the neck if you want to use them as a winger 

If you combine a player with that trait and one of those roles it can actually give you greater variety of play as he will, on occasion, cut inside.  He won't cut inside as often as a role with the PI to cut inside (or a role that doesn't have that PI),  it just depends on how you see the role playing out.  If you want a traditional line hugging winger then yeh, don't pick that trait.

Traits > PIs > TIs.  That doesn't mean Traits override or ignore PIs, it's more of a cumulative effect, so they can still have an impact despite PIs and TIs.

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Right now my philosophy is:

--Central Midfielders all get "Dictates Tempo" and "Likes Ball played into feet". Sometimes ore creative wingers get that as well. This really helps in securing possession and establishing a pass-first mentality in the centre while also making the players trust more on their mentals

--One central midfielder also gets "Plays Long Range Passes" and "Passes into Wide Areas". If properly set up a quick, long pass to the opposite site just breaks defenses.

Everything else is negotiable, although I love myself the "Plays One-Two"-trait and am currently experimenting with creating two completely different strikers that then confuse defenses by switching positions. Arrives Late + Runs Often (+One-Two and pot. Comes Deep) for example is pretty fun as it creates lots of movement and can both spearhead attacks and receive cutbacks. The other one I am not fully on board with right now is breaking the Offside Trap and running rarely. Maybe with getting into the Area and shooting with power. Just a no-nonsense-striker who runs forward and shoots if he has the chance and once cornered is more likely to pass (or shoot with a good chance of a rebound).

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Regarding "comes deep to get the ball", did you ever change a duty because of it? For example let's say you sign a fast and creative  player to be your AM(s) and he comes with that trait. Maybe you can afford to switch him to an attack duty to benefit from a more positive mentality but at the same time still make him available for passes in deeper positions?

Does that make sense? 

Edited by mikcheck
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You do have to wonder how the AI treat Traits

When I joined Stuttgart, both full backs had " Gets forward whenever possible" and so did the two best central midfielders plus 7 first teamers were either training "Move the ball onto the right before dribbling" or "develops weaker foot". I guess it's the same process as us, the coaching staff will suggest which traits to train and we decide whether to or not they train for it

I don't think scouts account for them, I've sent them out to look for Inside Forwards and the reports I get are usually for wingers, who can play as an Inside Forward, but on the wrong wing or they like to Hug the Touchline, so I wonder if AI purchases are made using the scouts   

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In what circumstances would you want certain finishing traits? I've never really tried to get strikers to learn these, because I'm not sure which traits are best for which players. E.g. when would you want a player to have 'shoots with power' rather than 'places shots,' and vice versa?

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17 minutes ago, ryandormer said:

E.g. when would you want a player to have 'shoots with power' rather than 'places shots,' and vice versa?

It's not going to really answer your question directly, but coaches can be useful here. If I have a striker that I want to learn "places shots", they will reply with something along the lines of "it suits players with good technique" or "it doesn't suit him because he lacks Technique". This way, it's possible to figure out what trait suits which players.

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I have a love/hate relationship with traits. They’re awesome when they fit your team and bad when they don’t. I don’t tend to train them, I just use the players as they come and try to integrate them. I once gave my playmakers “switch ball to the other flank” and “try risky pass” because that was the style I wanted to play then I decided to change to a slow buildup, possession style and I wanted to throw my laptop every time they tried playing the long ball

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I like plays one-two's, especially when i'm not playing a max tempo (Never do anyway) as that can add another dimension. Switch ball wide I'd like to less resticted to from the middle (Think TAA for liverpool for example)

Drops deep + Killer balls was an outstanding combination for a newgen DLF I got, combined with the AM-A\SS (Gets into box).

Stays back goes on my DC's mainly, or maybe a true Anchor man who can tackle\pass but not dribble.

As per Above post - I use the one's that fit my tactic and players only.

Untraining traits is painfully slow and doesn't work all the time.

Rounding keeper seems to be recommendended for lower fnishing.

Places shots I'm not keen on, sometimes my AML (IF-A) looks more like he's passing the ball to the keeper vs shooting. Seems to be tied to hiugher finshing.

Edited by plcarlos
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1 hour ago, ryandormer said:

In what circumstances would you want certain finishing traits? I've never really tried to get strikers to learn these, because I'm not sure which traits are best for which players. E.g. when would you want a player to have 'shoots with power' rather than 'places shots,' and vice versa?

I judge it off Strength and Technique, Strength for Shoots with Power, I figure they have the power in their legs to hammer it, and Technique for Places Shots as they'll be able to find the corners. I think the ingame Tool tip mentions this  

As mentioned earlier, Troy Deeney has Shoots with Power but has both decent Strength and Technique but doesn't half leather the ball one

I've noticed players with a higher Strength attribute, also head the all at goal with more Power, when I was using the Wide Target Forward, and Lukas Jutkiewicz don't half get some power on their headers  

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I have a fantastic talented dlf, has all the qualities of a playmaker. Also possess the traits comes deep to get the ball and tries killer balls, but unfortunately has only 11 for passing. I got him at the age of 17 and really hoped to get this developed to 13/15 but he only got two points 9->11. 

His mentals are very good so I'm gonna keep him as a mentor for the next wonderkind I found with a nice pass rating of 14. 

 

I never had this combination for that role but what I see in game it's a really nice combo. I wonder what will happen if I get a striker with really high passing ratings

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11 hours ago, Feddo said:

I have a fantastic talented dlf, has all the qualities of a playmaker. Also possess the traits comes deep to get the ball and tries killer balls, but unfortunately has only 11 for passing

I take it all of his other playmaker attributes are great then? 11 may not be so bad, he can obviously read the game and spot a pass so keep your eye on him during the matches to see he's messing up his changes. How old is he now? Even if he's in his early 20's, he might see a slight increase

11 hours ago, Feddo said:

I never had this combination for that role but what I see in game it's a really nice combo. I wonder what will happen if I get a striker with really high passing ratings

It's great seeing a DLF at work :thup:

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On 13/05/2022 at 10:14, Johnny Ace said:

I take it all of his other playmaker attributes are great then? 11 may not be so bad, he can obviously read the game and spot a pass so keep your eye on him during the matches to see he's messing up his changes. How old is he now? Even if he's in his early 20's, he might see a slight increase

He's currently getting his first full season, last year he was a rotational player. Switched to a two striker formation to make room for this guy. First matches he's banging in goals like there's no tomorrow 😁

I'm also using an attacking inverted wing back who's going to contribute with assists and long distance shots. He's got the look for killer pass and I'm thinking of adding shoot from distance. 

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