Need help making my dream tactic work the way it used to

[jondragonborn]

Hi guys!

I had a tactic in FM 21 that worked the exact way that I would like my team to play. I didnt created the tactic, I just tweaked a tactic made by someone named "Eden Aria" in a Korean forum.

I download it his original work and made a few tweaks, mostly in player instructions to made the tactic more to my liking.

In FM21, the tactic worked as a beauty. It was everything I've ever dreamt to. However, it didnt quite works in FM22. I'm having good results (not the way it was, sure), but the main problem is that the tactic dont play the way it used to.

Sure, the Match Engine changes, evolves, thats awesome, I'm not pissing on that. However, I need help trying to make the tactic work like the way it used to (or, at least, someone to put me out of my misery and say that it isnt possible).

I dont have FM21 installed anymore in my PC, but I can post pictures of the tactic and describe how it worked.

How the tactic played in FM21

So, the back four was pretty much common and straightforward. I love the Stopper-Combo in defense and it worked pretty well. Originally, only the left defender was a Ball Playing Defender, but I had two great ones so I made the change.

The left wingback on attack was someone that made numbers in defense and bombed forward. We didnt score much by crossing, but he always got 10 assists at least. His main thing on attack was to draw the opponent's right fullback, dribble until the line, then stop and pass back to the Shadow Striker.

The right fullback didnt went to attack. He mostly stayed back, around the middle at most. He was a support to the Wide Playmaker, someone to recycle the possession if needed it.

In the middle, we got a DLP-S, BBM-S and WP-A.

The Deep Lying Playmaker was someone that recycle the possession and mostly passed to the Shadow Striker, the Deep Lying Forward or the Wide Playmaker. Sometimes he would score shooting from outside the box, but only when we couldnt penetrate the box.

The Box to Box Midfielder was someone that pressed the opposition, made tackles and short passes. He penetrate the box frequently and scored goals.

The Wide Playmaker was just.... *chef kisses. Seriously, it was magical. Magical. Something straight out the 80s or 70s. He would get the ball and just make the team fly. His passes went everywhere: through balls to the Advanced Forward, the BBM or the SS; long balls to the WB-A; 1-2s with the DLF-S, the BBM-S or the DLP-S. He did EVERYTHING. He even scored a lot by getting crossings from the WB-A or cutting inside and shooting at the limit of the box.

In the build-up, dude was like a son of Thiago and Pirlo. At the final third, was a mix of Anthony and De Bruyne.

I played James Rodriguez (on loan) and Thiago Almada in this position through 5 seasons, more or less. None of them made less than 240 key passes and 25 assists in a season (none of them played corners or free kicks). They were THAT good.

In this Match Engine, the Wide Playmaker on attack seems like a third attacker, he didnt participate in the build-up. On support, he just invisible. Dont touch the ball at all. Thats the main reason the tactic isnt working as it used to.

Now, the 3 upfront.

The Shadow Striker was the perfect personification of the Fantasista concept. He made assists, dribbles and goals. Luan was my guy there through 5 seasons and he made 20 goals and assists EVERY season. He just get the ball at the build-up, dribble one guy, take the ball to the Zone 14 and made a pass to the Advanced Forward or BBM. Sometimes he played 1-2s with the DLF, other he just went dribbling and scored, or get inside to receive a pass from the WP. It was amazing. Something like Kaka or Rivaldo.

The Deep Lying Forward went back almost to the middle of the pitch in the build-up. He provide passing options to everyone and connected the play with everyone as well. On the final third, he sometimes open himself on the flanks, creating space to penetrations. Other times, he would mix himself and be the "surprise guy" to score. Hulk played there for me and, even with 34+ years, he created a lot of goals and assists.

Finally, the Advanced Forwards was the main scorer of the team. He was at the end of passes from the WP-A, the SS and the DLF. Sometimes, he also get crosses from the WB-A and passes from DLP-S and BBM-S. Its no surprise that Borré scored 40+ for me for 3 seasons in a row. His backup also always scored 20+.

The goals also varied: sometimes he would get that classic through ball from way behind and just run to the goal, past the GK and scored. Sometimes the pass would come from the Zone 14 and he would netted. Sometimes was a header. Plenty of options.

How its going in FM22

The defense isnt as uptight as it used to. I get the feeling that the combo Stopper + Cover dont work as well in this ME, but maybe its just me (only to be clear, I'm making tests with several teams, so even teams with the best in the world arent making the tactic work the way it used to).

The Fullback is always going forward, I'm having trouble putting him behind. The WB-A works like it should.

The DLP is the main playmaker now and the BBM-S dont penetrate as much.

The WP is who suffer the most: on attack, he scores but dont create. On support, he dont do anything. No key passes, no assists, nothing.

The Shadow Striker dont create as much, while the DLF dont get back as much and is not as creative.

I'm getting mix results. Strong teams are able to fulfill board and press expectations, so thats not exactly the problem. The problem, to me, is that the tactic dont play out as it should.

So... its possible to make changes to get the kind of play I want?

If more resources are require (more instructions on the players, clips), I can get some of it. Unfortunately, I dont think I can access my old save in FM21, but I'll try what I can in the weekend to show how the tactic used to work.

Also, I'm putting the tactic to download if anyone want to try it (remembering: I didnt created, just tweaked the tactic from Eden Aria).

WP+Fantasista.fmf

[Johnny Ace]

Wow! That's interesting to say the least 

I have to say, it looks very P&P and not logical with the footballing World but you've analysed everything superbly 

Have you tried contacting the original creator, see if he's updated it for FM22?

Sorry I can't help much 

 

[jondragonborn]

6 horas atrás, Johnny Ace disse:

Wow! That's interesting to say the least 

I have to say, it looks very P&P and not logical with the footballing World but you've analysed everything superbly 

Have you tried contacting the original creator, see if he's updated it for FM22?

Sorry I can't help much 

 

Yes, its a very "FM-tactic", so to say. I dont know if it would work in real life, I'm not very tactic-savyy, sort of speak. Maybe could, I dont know, hahaha

Unfortunately, the author only made a few tactics for FM20 (this one included. It just worked perfectly in FM20 and 21, but not in FM22). He didnt posted anything else since january/21.

Thanks for your comment and your interest! 

[Robson 07]

Agree with @Johnny AceI'm afraid.  On this forum its more likely to get rebuilt from scratch than tweaked.  A bit difficult to know where to start.

[wearesporting]

Very high pressing. Are the goals conceded later in the game? That full back if put on defend would still be forward enough for you with mentality so high.

[jondragonborn]

Em 06/05/2022 em 14:47, Robson 07 disse:

Agree with @Johnny AceI'm afraid.  On this forum its more likely to get rebuilt from scratch than tweaked.  A bit difficult to know where to start.

Yes, I'm afraid that you're correct. But thanks for paying attention and giving your thoughts on the matter, I really appreciate!

Em 06/05/2022 em 15:45, wearesporting disse:

Very high pressing. Are the goals conceded later in the game? That full back if put on defend would still be forward enough for you with mentality so high.

The goals werent conceded in any particular period of the game. You are correct: I can hold the fullback a little more. In fact, I did some tests and, inspired by O-zil to the Arsenal, found that the best solution for defense was: 

• change the central defender - cover to ball playing defender - defend (with "stay wider);
• change the ball playing defender - stopper to central defender - defend;
• change the full back - support to full back - defend (with "stay narrow" and "hold position"). 

That gave me a back 3 when I'm attacking and my defence improved. It seems (by my personal experience, of course) that the Match Engine isnt very keen on the partnership Stopper-Cover in defense this year. Its sad, because I just love that partnership.

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About the tactic in general:

I made some tests, watched some games. I realise that in FM21, my team looked for the WP-A more frequently. The players tried to pass to him always that was possible. The exception used to be some play that started in the left flank, normally some counter attack. Otherwise, eventually the ball was going to his feet.

In FM22, that doesnt happen. I notice that the WP-A was always too wide (even with "stay narrow" instruction) and that prevent him to stay involved. So I changed the team width to "Fairly narrow" and that made him more involved. Odergaard had 12 assists from open play (+7 from free kicks and corners), 220 key passes and 45 CCCs created in my runner-up Arsenal season playing as WP-A. Its good, but not quite there yet.

I'm gonna made more tests and try to read reports and the data on the game to figure out what I need to do to get there.

Edited May 10, 2022 by jondragonborn
fixing that separation

[Johnny Ace]

Have you tried a focus play down the right? Might force the issue a bit too much but worth a try?

[jondragonborn]

Em 10/05/2022 em 16:33, Johnny Ace disse:

Have you tried a focus play down the right? Might force the issue a bit too much but worth a try?

Yes, I tried. I tried to focus play down the right and I didnt noticed signicant changes. Then, I tried to focus play down the middle and the left (I teorized that if the ball went there more, maybe that would force the opposition to cover other parts of the pitch and free the WP-A), but also didnt noticed much change.

After watch a lot of games, I'm noticing that my team is kind of bypassing the WP-A. We get the ball back and immediately pump forward, withouth passing it through him. So I'm playing with team and players mentalities to see if I can reduce that "rush" and pass the ball more. The problem is that I'm terrible to understand mentalities in FM22, but I'm gonna get there hahaha

[Flußkrebs]

2 minutes ago, jondragonborn said:

After watch a lot of games, I'm noticing that my team is kind of bypassing the WP-A. We get the ball back and immediately pump forward, withouth passing it through him. So I'm playing with team and players mentalities to see if I can reduce that "rush" and pass the ball more. The problem is that I'm terrible to understand mentalities in FM22, but I'm gonna get there hahaha

Well assuming the tactic still looks like the one you posted above, you're using attacking on standard passing (so more direct) and pass into space, so that might be contributing to bypassing the WPa? In addition you have counter ticked (hence winning the ball back and immediately playing forward).

With a tactic like this though it is so difficult to tweak as it's difficult to break down which part does what. 

Are you wanting to see the WPa pick the ball up in the right half space (kind of where an IF might sit)? Or is he meant to be receiving deeper (where a WM would sit? Or high and wide? If you want him on the ball more then I'd maybe consider trying a WPs or lowering the mentality or lowering the passing distance/tempo. Could try turning off counter explicitly as well but I imagine all these changes might damage the tactic!

[Johnny Ace]

27 minutes ago, jondragonborn said:

Yes, I tried. I tried to focus play down the right and I didnt noticed signicant changes. Then, I tried to focus play down the middle and the left (I teorized that if the ball went there more, maybe that would force the opposition to cover other parts of the pitch and free the WP-A), but also didnt noticed much change.

After watch a lot of games, I'm noticing that my team is kind of bypassing the WP-A. We get the ball back and immediately pump forward, withouth passing it through him. So I'm playing with team and players mentalities to see if I can reduce that "rush" and pass the ball more. The problem is that I'm terrible to understand mentalities in FM22, but I'm gonna get there hahaha

Maybe remove the other playmaker, the DLP, If you want a playmaker as the focus, use just the one I'd say

As above, passing into space isn't really what a playmaker wants, passing to his feet and allowing him to make the passes into space is generally favourable, so yeah, try removing that TI too   

You've a lot of roles that pass into space anyway, think about it, the SK, the BPD's, the DLP, the WPM, the SS and the DLF, that's 7 out of 11 on field roles, looking to pass into space so try just Central Defenders for now so and see if they can find your WPM

There's a whole bunch I'd change, the whole tactic still seems nuts to me but trying to help out as best I can for what you want 

[backpocket]

Hmm my guess is that having an AF could be the main one? Mentality and forward play has been changed slightly, so your team might be trying to get it to him ASAP. 
 

To keep things close to the original tactic I’d probably just try to change the AF to a poacher or pressing forward. Poacher because he’ll just pin the defense and not too involved in buildup, so the ball would go to the playmakers/midfielders more. He’ll still be pushing the opp D-line up so there’ll still be space to exploit.

Good luck!