Will you be buying FM23 ?

[wisconsin]

Has it been confirmed whether a players height now makes a difference in FM23?

For those who don't know, Zealand recently did an experiment where he made a team of tall players with low jumping reach play against a team of small players with high jumping reach, and basically discovered player height has zero impact on the match engine.

[dpt8544]

1 hour ago, wisconsin said:

Has it been confirmed whether a players height now makes a difference in FM23?

For those who don't know, Zealand recently did an experiment where he made a team of tall players with low jumping reach play against a team of small players with high jumping reach, and basically discovered player height has zero impact on the match engine.

Given that the jumping reach attribute of players is inexorably linked to their height, I really struggle to see why you would want height to make a difference. It's not like players are generating at 5 foot tall with 20 jumping reach. By having jumping reach consistent regardless of height, it allows us to more easily compare the aerial prowess of players.

Edited September 25, 2022 by dpt8544

[Dotsworthy]

3 hours ago, wisconsin said:

Has it been confirmed whether a players height now makes a difference in FM23?

For those who don't know, Zealand recently did an experiment where he made a team of tall players with low jumping reach play against a team of small players with high jumping reach, and basically discovered player height has zero impact on the match engine.

There was another thread about aerial reach in GKs and someone posted a chart that shows that height has an effect on a newgen players min/max attribute for jumping/aerial reach.

[herne79]

3 hours ago, wisconsin said:

Has it been confirmed whether a players height now makes a difference in FM23?

For those who don't know, Zealand recently did an experiment where he made a team of tall players with low jumping reach play against a team of small players with high jumping reach, and basically discovered player height has zero impact on the match engine.

Experiments like that are fundamentally flawed because FM is based on realism.  With regards height / jumping reach, the whole system is set up so that tall players can’t have low JR and vice versa (researchers get set parameters for JR based on height), so as soon as we start messing with that we can get unexpected results which then translates into people jumping to conclusions such as height having zero impact.

TL;DR - nonsense inputs tend to equate to nonsense outputs.  But then that wouldn’t make for very good YT videos would it? 

[DP]

1 hour ago, herne79 said:

Experiments like that are fundamentally flawed because FM is based on realism.  With regards height / jumping reach, the whole system is set up so that tall players can’t have low JR and vice versa (researchers get set parameters for JR based on height), so as soon as we start messing with that we can get unexpected results which then translates into people jumping to conclusions such as height having zero impact.

TL;DR - nonsense inputs tend to equate to nonsense outputs.  But then that wouldn’t make for very good YT videos would it? 

The actual data point itself ‘height’ sort of does have zero impact though right? 
 

Personally I would keep height (as an indicator) and make JR (the data that impacts the engine) a hidden attribute. That way you can see the height and have a pretty good idea what the JR is. It’s a bit confusing having both visible. 

[fc.cadoni]

7 hours ago, wisconsin said:

Has it been confirmed whether a players height now makes a difference in FM23?

For those who don't know, Zealand recently did an experiment where he made a team of tall players with low jumping reach play against a team of small players with high jumping reach, and basically discovered player height has zero impact on the match engine.

I have stopped the clickbait game. Please.

[Yuko]

I miss the times where PC only meant computer. 

[saihtam]

On 24/09/2022 at 10:04, santy001 said:

Moving on with the discussion though, in terms of numbers @saihtam I think there are some other considerations as well. FM isn't a game you need to be online to play, there will be some who rarely connect to steam and play in offline mode particularly as life has returned to normal. With the change in schedules again following covid people will likely put far less hours into FM than previously. I'm far more of a degenerate gamer myself, but there probably has to be some people who buy FM have less than 100 hours on it total but still have had a really enjoyable experience with the game only having done a few seasons across the course of the year. 

Sadly dont know if those number counts player who appear invisible or not. I would think this show players playing the game through steam even if invisible state. Also offline part, you still need to be online for first launche? Think is needed for some games, i mean can you even download it while being offline state?

Still, the preorder HUGE DOUBLE rise that has been waved by miles past years seems to be not correct.  Dont think they ever said exact numbers of preorder sales anywhere.

[McClane29]

On 25/09/2022 at 02:45, Powermonger said:

This is one of the major things I’d like upgraded, I feel the current UI has run its course and is holding the game back in terms of graphical flair, point and click customisation, and navigation. I would love to see true multi window support. 

Looking at early screens from FM23, I'd say the UI has barely changed at all.

[luka_zg]

Ofc I'm buying.

What else is a cold and rainy late october evening good for than for building your football team? Been doing it for decades, ain't gonna stop now.

Mix it with the winter WC and it just gets better. Can't wait.

[grade]

1 hour ago, McClane29 said:

Looking at early screens from FM23, I'd say the UI has barely changed at all.

But, but... Miles said in preview trailer they hired more people to design team?

[Platinum]

1 hour ago, McClane29 said:

Looking at early screens from FM23, I'd say the UI has barely changed at all.

Those screens were for FM Mobile I believe

[KillYourIdols]

Talking of Graphics Etc, I just want less floaty players, poor ball movement during passes and better net Physics. Not a game changer, I know, but they REALLY annoy me.

[McClane29]

3 hours ago, Platinum said:

Those screens were for FM Mobile I believe

The screens discovered by FM Scout show FM23 Touch edition on various platforms. The following screens are from the Mac version of Touch which usually looks the same to the full game...

[Federico]

44 minuti fa, McClane29 ha scritto:

The screens discovered by FM Scout show FM23 Touch edition on various platforms. The following screens are from the Mac version of Touch which usually looks the same to the full game...

Wait.,. are those screenshots from FM23? The only difference in the UI is the blue instead of pink? Not even a change with the font?

Woa.

[Marko1989]

1 hour ago, Federico said:

Wait.,. are those screenshots from FM23? The only difference in the UI is the blue instead of pink? Not even a change with the font?

Woa.

If there were no good people who share their custom skins, I would not even buy the game. I would not be able to look at the same UI for years

[DP]

It doesn’t need a complete UI overhaul tbf. It needs a massive improvement to existing systems - conversations, AI squad building, transfers, promises. 

If it looks the same at a surface level but there’s some love given to optimising current systems, fine. 

Edited September 27, 2022 by DP

[Phil930]

Yes, every year.  Birthdays, Christmas, Holidays, FM - annual event never to be missed - 30+ years into this problem!

[Powermonger]

17 hours ago, DP said:

It doesn’t need a complete UI overhaul tbf. It needs a massive improvement to existing systems - conversations, AI squad building, transfers, promises. 

I would disagree, there has been so many add changes to the game over the version iterations that the UI is feeling fragmented and lacking cohesion. The UI and UX needs a revamp and brought to the modern age. 

[XaW]

5 minutes ago, Powermonger said:

I would disagree, there has been so many add changes to the game over the version iterations that the UI is feeling fragmented and lacking cohesion. The UI and UX needs a revamp and brought to the modern age. 

Personally, I don't care if they don't spend a minute on the UI as long as the AI squad building is improved. Long term saves are way too easy currently, since most AI squads are so unbalanced and screams for decent players in certain positions at times. I actually think I would be perfectly happy if that was the only change from FM22, since it's the main issue I have playing mostly long term saves. Sure there are some niggles in the UI here and there, but it's perfectly usable. For example, the UI is not optimized for very high resolutions so I see smaller boxes or frames with scrollbars when the screen real estate is free around it. It's a bit annoying, but hardly ruins the game. Looking at a world class team in 2036 with no full backs, now that's an issue for me.

[aj6658]

To be honest dont want any "new" added to the game. Just want some big improvements under the hood

1. Fix genpressing being OP. I get its what the big teams use as its highly effective but I shouldn't be able to put any player into it. I shouldn't  be able to play with Bournemouth and get a result. I shouldn't be able to buy Ronaldo and him play it well at the age of 37. It should be devised so there's holes in the opponent's if you beat the press, and the players need to be well drilled to get back into position (this is where decisions and work rate come into play). Think we started to see that with stamina effecting play but needs a big boost.
2. Squad building - Teams buy players they dont need each summer so they have bloated squads and youth stifles. Theres not actual thought into what the teams lack or development of style which is really annoying
3. Felt youth development needs a bit of a change. More dynamic and more thought needed on what attributes to improve. 

 

Anything else is a bonus really - fix the core gameplay first and then improve graphics and other stuff. I feel like things like the planner is just gonna be a surface level change and not really hitting the guts of the game.

[grade]

2 hours ago, Murraymint said:

1st one I'm going to miss since the Domark original I'm afraid. Very few noticeable changes in the last few editions and I'm not happy how Si have treated Sortitoutsi. Forcing them to take down the adboard patch and then removing them from selling the game. Bad Show all round SI

Wait, that is all news for me. What happened?

Edited September 28, 2022 by grade

[autohoratio]

5 hours ago, grade said:

Wait, that is all news for me. What happened?

This happened a year or two ago. From what I was told by friends in the FM fansite community Sega sent a haughtily-worded legal letter demanding that Sortitoutsi take down both the adboard patch a user on their forums made, and also demanded that they remove any extracted data from the game from the site - they used excerpts to put players'/clubs' profiles from current and past games on their website with stuff like wages, contract dates, positions and star ratings - and I think they objected to the user-generated updated transfers databases Sortitoutsi had as well. Apparently the legal letter was only sent to Sortitoutsi and not to other fansites who also have player/club profiles based on game data, like FMscout, FMinside or FMdataba.

After that Sortitoutsi took down the adboard patch, and made some changes to their player/club profiles to use less data from the game but Sega's lawyers still weren't happy and revoked their Approved Partner status which meant they can't sell the game anymore.

[saiyaman]

8 hours ago, XaW said:

Personally, I don't care if they don't spend a minute on the UI as long as the AI squad building is improved. Long term saves are way too easy currently, since most AI squads are so unbalanced and screams for decent players in certain positions at times. I actually think I would be perfectly happy if that was the only change from FM22, since it's the main issue I have playing mostly long term saves. Sure there are some niggles in the UI here and there, but it's perfectly usable. For example, the UI is not optimized for very high resolutions so I see smaller boxes or frames with scrollbars when the screen real estate is free around it. It's a bit annoying, but hardly ruins the game. Looking at a world class team in 2036 with no full backs, now that's an issue for me.

I'm more afraid if they spend time on the UI considering how much they deleted in terms of Matchday in FM 21.

The lesser the time they spend removing things and "fixing" the UI the better

EDIT: One of the weirdest things ever I've seen in fm is the famed xG. It kind of replaced clear cut chances. Added almost nothing to the game except, hey you had so many chances you should have scored so many goals damn bro that's so crazy better luck next time. I could have understood that just by looking at Shots, Shots on Target and Clear Cut Chances. *shrug*

Edited September 28, 2022 by saiyaman

[grade]

1 hour ago, autohoratio said:

This happened a year or two ago. From what I was told by friends in the FM fansite community Sega sent a haughtily-worded legal letter demanding that Sortitoutsi take down both the adboard patch a user on their forums made, and also demanded that they remove any extracted data from the game from the site - they used excerpts to put players'/clubs' profiles from current and past games on their website with stuff like wages, contract dates, positions and star ratings - and I think they objected to the user-generated updated transfers databases Sortitoutsi had as well. Apparently the legal letter was only sent to Sortitoutsi and not to other fansites who also have player/club profiles based on game data, like FMscout, FMinside or FMdataba.

After that Sortitoutsi took down the adboard patch, and made some changes to their player/club profiles to use less data from the game but Sega's lawyers still weren't happy and revoked their Approved Partner status which meant they can't sell the game anymore.

Thanks for the info.

Can't really comment on the subject, because I'm a bit out of conversation, but don't want to be source for moderators to close the thread.

Edited September 28, 2022 by grade

[alian62]

8 hours ago, autohoratio said:

This happened a year or two ago. From what I was told by friends in the FM fansite community Sega sent a haughtily-worded legal letter demanding that Sortitoutsi take down both the adboard patch a user on their forums made, and also demanded that they remove any extracted data from the game from the site - they used excerpts to put players'/clubs' profiles from current and past games on their website with stuff like wages, contract dates, positions and star ratings - and I think they objected to the user-generated updated transfers databases Sortitoutsi had as well. Apparently the legal letter was only sent to Sortitoutsi and not to other fansites who also have player/club profiles based on game data, like FMscout, FMinside or FMdataba.

After that Sortitoutsi took down the adboard patch, and made some changes to their player/club profiles to use less data from the game but Sega's lawyers still weren't happy and revoked their Approved Partner status which meant they can't sell the game anymore.

Why didn't they just make AdBoards hard coded then . Seems an easier option 

[FrazT]

Given that SEGA/SI and sortitoutsi will be the only ones who know the full circumstances and details of this issue and any legal ramifications, I think it will be wrong for any of us to discuss this on the forums based on conjecture only.  Can I please ask that we all move on from this and stick to the thread topic.

[sthptngomad76]

22 hours ago, aj6658 said:

To be honest dont want any "new" added to the game. Just want some big improvements under the hood

1. Fix genpressing being OP. I get its what the big teams use as its highly effective but I shouldn't be able to put any player into it. I shouldn't  be able to play with Bournemouth and get a result. I shouldn't be able to buy Ronaldo and him play it well at the age of 37. It should be devised so there's holes in the opponent's if you beat the press, and the players need to be well drilled to get back into position (this is where decisions and work rate come into play). Think we started to see that with stamina effecting play but needs a big boost.
2. Squad building - Teams buy players they dont need each summer so they have bloated squads and youth stifles. Theres not actual thought into what the teams lack or development of style which is really annoying
3. Felt youth development needs a bit of a change. More dynamic and more thought needed on what attributes to improve. 

 

Anything else is a bonus really - fix the core gameplay first and then improve graphics and other stuff. I feel like things like the planner is just gonna be a surface level change and not really hitting the guts of the game.

There was a Youtube teaser where one of the SI team implied that there would be a greater emphasis on low block defensive tactics being useful. Whether or not it'll do anything to the one-size-fits-all gegenpress being effective from Moldova to Man City, remains to be seen, but I am hopeful. Totally agree with your post btw.

Edited September 29, 2022 by sthptngomad76

[zakbrown96]

The features should be announced today I’d imagine as it’s always a Thursday. 

[gggfunk]

41 minutes ago, zakbrown96 said:

The features should be announced today I’d imagine as it’s always a Thursday. 

I keep refreshing forum every 5 minutes, cannot wait  

[3maldini3]

Today is the day?

[fc.cadoni]

40 minutes ago, turgi said:

Today is the day?

Today is a good day, I will say as well. 

[VP.]

9 hours ago, FrazT said:

Given that SEGA/SI and sortitoutsi will be the only ones who know the full circumstances and details of this issue and any legal ramifications, I think it will be wrong for any of us to discuss this on the forums based on conjecture only.  Can I please ask that we all move on from this and stick to the thread topic.

Believe me us at Sortitoutsi don't know the full details as SEGA just don't reply back!

Anyway you're right not the place to discuss in here.

[VP.]

57 minutes ago, turgi said:

Today is the day?

Rumours are it's at 6pm.

[Platinum]

1 hour ago, gggfunk said:

I keep refreshing forum every 5 minutes, cannot wait  

Think it will be in the evening tbh

[Platinum]

8 minutes ago, VP. said:

Rumours are it's at 6pm.

Yeah I think they normally do these types of things at 6pm when lots of people have finished there 9 to 5

[DementedHammer]

11 minutes ago, VP. said:

Rumours are it's at 6pm.

About the time I will be waking up tomorrow morning (my time). 

I have a feeling that I might be late for work tomorrow. 

[Lempicka]

13 minutes ago, VP. said:

Rumours are it's at 6pm.

That's good to know. It'll take some of the heat of my F5 key.

[Yuko]

Not sure what to expect, but the breaking point for me was the broker Editor that remained broken over the course of the year. No idea what assurances we can get that this will be fixed, but it's the bare minimum that should have been done from day 1 and it's been almost 300 days with no proper fix. 

 

The UI needs an overhaul which we're not getting evidently. At least something that won't be full of glitches.

 

Not sure what I can see that will sway me to prepurchase.

[aj6658]

Im hoping that this year is the first full year post lockdowns so hoping any delays or obstacles they faced for FM22 are no a thing of the past. 

 

Also in the teaser video they did mention that they have "levelled up" and the design team is bigger hiring for specific areas so what im hoping is a more refined/ less buggy release 

[Nick_CB]

My expectation to buy or not FM23:

Fix cuts inside of IW and IF

Number of passes consistent with the reality of current football. It is non-standard weak teams and lower divisions with passing percentage above 85%. 

Remodeling of the Set Pieces system

Edited September 29, 2022 by Nick_CB

[timmy]

My experience Fm 21 and Fm 22 is not great Both games crash unpredictably, I have done everything like update drivers, clear cache etc  and got tech support from Sega games but no solution. No issues with previous versions Fm 20 and before. Can only hope Fm 23 will be more stable for me.

[jlammi]

I already bought it from Steam it was 20% discount. I can wait Beta for playing FM22

[aj6658]

Guessing no news today?

[grade]

4 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

Guessing no news today?

Got an email from FMFC:

Tune into our Youtube channel at 7pm (BST) on Thursday September 29 as we welcome you to Football Manager 2023's NEW headline features.

[pedrosantos]

Email confirmed😊

[Artin]

depends.

i didn't buy last year's FM bec the biggest change was adding a wide center back.

if it's another feature i won't use, i'll stick with an older FM...

Edited September 29, 2022 by Artin

[wisconsin]

Are rivalries dynamic in FM?

Like if I get Southport to Premier League level they should be rivals with Liverpool/Everton rather than the likes of Tranmere and Chester.

[HUNT3R]

4 hours ago, wisconsin said:

Are rivalries dynamic in FM?

 

Yes, they are. It's been in since FM16, I think.

[mrwright86]

One thing that I have been wondering about and may have been answered; I see FM23 is coming to Xbox Games Pass, but is the PC version going to be included in the PC Games Pass at launch? Presumably not, but worth checking!