Jump to content

FM21 help with 4-3-3 DM wide


Recommended Posts

Afternoon all.

I'm struggling to get any consistency going in my current save on FM21 touch on the switch. For the most part, I can design a system which gets results in the (very) short term but after about 4 or 5 games things start going south. I change things up and start getting results again but then, after a few games, well you get the picture.

I started the save unemployed and am currently managing Jahn Regensburg in the German 3rd division although I had the same issues with my previous team (also 3rd division). I'm about 5 seasons into the save.

This is my current system:

image.png.13d4c5b497ac0de6628df50210921f1d.png

image.png.1ad2f55d384f8c903d8324bde9b39fe1.png

image.png.c78a8d6d21b168615064ec813250a467.png

image.png.feb2fa9917fa41c328e4260a851d2135.png

As a team we don't have good passing but I want to be able to keep hold of the ball which is why I use shorter passing and have tried to make sure that there are always short options available (for example, the DM in front of the CBs who I hate cus they have absolutely no composure and just look to lump it forward despite the POOD instruction). I figure even players with 9 or 10 passing can play it 5-10 yards accurately if there's an option available.

The results below show the 3 wins in a row from when I implemented this system and then the downturn in results after that. As I say, this is an all too familiar pattern and one I want to overcome otherwise I'll never get anywhere:

image.png.b7507d5bb288ccf307d97485e4f087c2.png

For reference, the board want a top half finish but the bookies have us 4th favs to go up this season and we were the outright favourites last year so we should be challenging for promotion really (currently 8th and on the way down the table as you can see from the results above).

I struggle a little with the AI to be honest. The 0-0 away against Uerdingen we were all over them and created good chances but were unlucky not to win. They were 20th and were parking the bus (as you'd expect). 

In the next game at home to Zwickau (who were 18th at the time) I was expecting the AI to go defensive again yet the opposite happened and we were outplayed at home by a team in the relegation zone. I find this confusing because my understanding is that the AI only adapts by, for example, becoming more defensive if you're doing well (which I was at the time). I'm seeing the opposite in lots of games.

Any tips on the system and/or my point about the AI would be really helpful. 

Thanks

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

So I have a few questions for you. Why are you so conservative on the left with your full back? Why do you have an AP on the wing and why have you picked a target man in front?

I'm not saying it's wrong, I just want to understand if it's because of the player's you have before I make my suggestion

Link to post
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, DarJ said:

So I have a few questions for you. Why are you so conservative on the left with your full back? Why do you have an AP on the wing and why have you picked a target man in front?

I'm not saying it's wrong, I just want to understand if it's because of the player's you have before I make my suggestion

Thanks @DarJ.

My left back's attributes are very much geared towards defending. He doesn't offer much at all going forward (unlike my right back). The defensive left back is also why the mezzala is on that side of the central midfield pairing.

With the AP in the AMR position, he doesn't have the attributes to play as a winger or as an inside forward. Believe me, I've tried him with both. He's not quick and doesn't dribble etc. However, he does have decent passing, flair, vision etc compared to the rest of the team and playing him as an AP finally got some decent performances out of him.

The target man is 6'3" and has 15 heading and 15 jumping reach. He also has 14 for pace, finishing and 1st touch and 13 off the ball. I figured TM(a) would get the best out of all of that but it hasn't.

My other striker is also a good finisher but not as big so never know what role to give him when he plays. He's a pure finisher, doesn't do much else well so he tends to play as a poacher but, again, it hasn't really worked.

I've managed to get runs of good results. This is just the latest system but they've all used the same formation, just the roles/players have changed. However, each tactic inevitably stops working after a few games and it's so frustrating.

I'm hoping any help with this tactic may help me to understand why I get into that repeating pattern. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

So the fact that you striker is very strong and good in the air doesn't mean you have to play him as a TM. Personally, regardless of the role I'm playing up front, I want my striker to be at least decent in the air because it gives you a lot of options to break teams down.

799197992_433help.png.42a68f019e7550bf7cdeebc000601339.png

Because you said your AP is only good at passing so I'll keep him however, I'll make changes to the fullbacks, striker.

  • The FB is on attack because you have a DM so you can afford to take more risks. You'll end up with the AP, B2B and FB working close to each other on that side. You could use a WB on attack instead but I'm not a fan of the role
  • I changed the TM to PF because it stops the players always trying to find him with the long ball then he's more of a goalscoring threat then the TM plus he'll come deep a bit and help progress the ball forward.
  • The winger is on attack because he's there to be a goal threat, I'm really not interested in his crossing ability. I left the winger because he will start very wide and come in narrow so he might find himself in a lot of space a lot
  • I changed the left FB to a WB on defend because even if he's bad you still want him to be a passing option so with this setup he will not move forward until your team have control of the final third.

If you're to worried about the FB on attack leaving you exposed you could change the DM to an anchor man or HB. In terms of team instructions I'll just ask them to play a bit narrower, it will help them keep the ball.

Now this is all theory, I'd have to watch the games to see how it plays out and see if I need to make changes

Link to post
Share on other sites

Im not sure who your target forward was looking for once the ball found its way to him. He needs more aggressive runners around him. Or a tricky little goalscorer beside him which it sounds like you happen to have.

Also as said a big guy up front will find plenty of opportunities to make use of his head without a target on it anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, DarJ said:

So the fact that you striker is very strong and good in the air doesn't mean you have to play him as a TM. Personally, regardless of the role I'm playing up front, I want my striker to be at least decent in the air because it gives you a lot of options to break teams down.

799197992_433help.png.42a68f019e7550bf7cdeebc000601339.png

Because you said your AP is only good at passing so I'll keep him however, I'll make changes to the fullbacks, striker.

  • The FB is on attack because you have a DM so you can afford to take more risks. You'll end up with the AP, B2B and FB working close to each other on that side. You could use a WB on attack instead but I'm not a fan of the role
  • I changed the TM to PF because it stops the players always trying to find him with the long ball then he's more of a goalscoring threat then the TM plus he'll come deep a bit and help progress the ball forward.
  • The winger is on attack because he's there to be a goal threat, I'm really not interested in his crossing ability. I left the winger because he will start very wide and come in narrow so he might find himself in a lot of space a lot
  • I changed the left FB to a WB on defend because even if he's bad you still want him to be a passing option so with this setup he will not move forward until your team have control of the final third.

If you're to worried about the FB on attack leaving you exposed you could change the DM to an anchor man or HB. In terms of team instructions I'll just ask them to play a bit narrower, it will help them keep the ball.

Now this is all theory, I'd have to watch the games to see how it plays out and see if I need to make changes

Thanks @DarJ. My AML is my top scorer but that's not saying much with this team as it stands.

Thanks to @wearesportingtoo. Definitely gonna try getting more people around my striker.

Edited by Lumbertubs
Link to post
Share on other sites

UPDATE (if anyone's interested):

I implemented some of the changes suggested by @DarJ mainly but also @wearesportingin terms of getting people in and around my striker more.

I decided that, despite him not being all that great at attacking, my LB is one of the three best players in my squad (in terms of current ability). The other two are my AML and the mezzala playing in the MCL position. Having my top 3 players all on the same side led me to using the LB as the more attacking full back which meant that these three players would be creating overloads on our left hand side. I also told my MCR (a B2B midfielder) to get forward more to hopefully take advantage of gaps created by the overload. He chipped in with a few goals as a result.

I finished 2nd behind only Bayern's reserve team who can't be promoted from the German 3rd division. I've now found myself a couple of excellent CBs who are composed and two games into the new season in the 2nd division I can already see that they'll retain the ball better than the morons I had before.

Obviously, my approach now needs to change again quite drastically because I'm tipped to go down again and my board want me to battle bravely against relegation but hopefully I'm better equipped now to adapt.

One thing I've learned is that I was relying too much on what my scout's opposition report was telling me about an opponent's style of play and how attacking/defensive they are. Between that and an opponent's form/position in the league, it's far too easy to just assume that an opponent will play a certain way. Within the first 5 mins of a game you can normally tell how they're going to play and adjust things accordingly.

Link to post
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Lumbertubs said:

Obviously, my approach now needs to change again quite drastically because I'm tipped to go down again

Not necessarily. Because you are tipped to go down most teams will setup to attack you and you can take advantage of that during the first half of the season until they adjust and start being cautious 

Link to post
Share on other sites

You only have one attack duty, and it's been given to a TM -- typically a support/teamwork role. You also don't have anyone near that TM, so you funnel everything to him and then stay away from him. That doesn't seem like it would provide many link-up opportunities and probably results in very few cohesive attacks.

If you want to keep using a TM role then I would consider using a CM(a) and/or an IF(a) to storm into the box after funneling to the TM. Alternatively, you could use a 4-2-3-1 or a two-striker formation that would place someone closer to your TM.

But you could also just scrap the TM idea and use a more well-rounded striker role. Even still, I think you need a CM(a) or IF(a) to get a second person driving into the danger area and give some combination options to your striker.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This might be too late based on your later update, but I generally always play this formation and had pretty good success on FM21 with a fairly simple version, so here's a couple of things that might help:

You're playing a Target Man/Forward but have shorter passing and Play Out of Defence active, plus you want your keeper to distribute to your defenders. If you're looking to take advantage of his height, heading, jumping and his pace/OTB stats then I'd suggest you probably need to be going a bit more direct so the service he gets takes advantage of that in a more deliberate manner

  • For example: more direct passing, get your GK to distribute to him, and look at how you cross the ball. Should it be floated crosses so he can rise above the defence? Maybe hit early crosses to prioritise getting the ball into him?
  • Then, if he's winning in the air he needs bodies around him to capitalise as is mentioned earlier. CM(A) and an IF who can benefit from his knockdowns and flick-ons.

OR if you prefer the shorter passing style, perhaps he needs to be a DLF or PF so he's involved more and there's less contradiction in his role v the TIs?

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Bruce Drundrige said:

This might be too late based on your later update, but I generally always play this formation and had pretty good success on FM21 with a fairly simple version, so here's a couple of things that might help:

You're playing a Target Man/Forward but have shorter passing and Play Out of Defence active, plus you want your keeper to distribute to your defenders. If you're looking to take advantage of his height, heading, jumping and his pace/OTB stats then I'd suggest you probably need to be going a bit more direct so the service he gets takes advantage of that in a more deliberate manner

  • For example: more direct passing, get your GK to distribute to him, and look at how you cross the ball. Should it be floated crosses so he can rise above the defence? Maybe hit early crosses to prioritise getting the ball into him?
  • Then, if he's winning in the air he needs bodies around him to capitalise as is mentioned earlier. CM(A) and an IF who can benefit from his knockdowns and flick-ons.

OR if you prefer the shorter passing style, perhaps he needs to be a DLF or PF so he's involved more and there's less contradiction in his role v the TIs?

 

 

Thanks. You're right. I changed him to a DLF and generally have my B2B midfielder and one of the AMs getting alongside and/or beyond him. He doesn't really score all that often himself but as a team we're much better off.

@Overmarsthanks to you too as you've said something similar. Such a great feeling to see the ball played into the DLFs feet before he turns and plays a through ball behind the defence for the B2B midfielder to score.

Edited by Lumbertubs
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

This site uses cookies - We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.