Diamond 442 please help to improve

[Novem9]

I just want stable diamond tactic without wingers. There are no special ideas, except perhaps a fairly quick ball transition from defense to attack, for which I use attacking mentality.

Also used LOE -1 (below), but the team seemed to be too passive with this.

upd. PI:

DLF(s) - stay wider

 

Main current issue - lose points with lower teams, no solid defence in general. This may be partly due to the level of players (D3 Italy), but the opponents are not Bayern Villarreal

 

Any notes in TI/roles/PI?

Many thanks in advance!

Edited April 16, 2022 by Novem9

[Poison]

4-3-1-2 with cm-d works a little bit better at the flanks, especially with a ball winning midfielder. I would also put "stay wider" to both forwards, by using this they also mark the fullbacks, their co-operation is not a problem usually (I used to play like this - mainly at home).

Edited April 16, 2022 by Poison

[Novem9]

19 минут назад, Poison сказал:

4-3-1-2 with cm-d works a little bit better at the flanks

I played in 4312 recently in other save and it was successfulbut I am very comfortable with a defensive midfielder 

I am considering HB as DM and change BBM -> DLP(s) in CM zone. Your thinks?

[Poison]

4 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

I played in 4312 recently in other save and it was successfulbut I am very comfortable with a defensive midfielder 

I am considering HB as DM and change BBM -> DLP(s) in CM zone. Your thinks?

It would be more solid for sure I think, not in my preferences, I believe the DM should step up, it will be safer this way imho, but it will probably work this way too yes, direct passing will probably be best if you choose this formation it seems.

[Tsuru]

FM does not handle well a very diamond formation, a 4132 looks more easier to me. But for a diamond I would go with two fullbacks on attack (Fullback or Wingback) and a CAM and Mezzala on Support duty. Then I would try to play with maximum width and build from there.

[skyline72]

You definitely need your WBs to provide width and stretch your opponents to have space for your attacking players to attack.

You might want to switch sides for your BBM/MEZ-A as the mezzala might run into your DLF.

[Prepper_Jack]

4-4-2 Diamond Narrow is a pretty vertical structure that lends itself well to patient approaches. In a patient game, the ball goes kind of effortlessly up through the middle of the field, with lots of triangles at your disposal. If you wish to complement this, you can go with two inverted wingbacks, which will essentially make it a 2-3-2-1-2 during the attack, and virtually unstoppable in the midfield. If you go with normal wingbacks, I might suggest the Wb(De), which will provide reasonable defenses on your wings, and be a bit of a sleeper on the attack. They won't cross often, but when they do the defense won't be prepared.

For central midfield, I typically avoid the mezzala role with 4-4-2 diamond, as they kind of run off and do their own thing, while the diamond shape is an asset to exploit - one that can carry you into their final third with a bit more ease, like a slow moving turtle.. but one that wins the race. CAR is ok, helping a bit on the width front, operating in a peculiar and kind of useful space, but can be a bit passive, and wasteful if you have some real talent in midfield. Right now I'm operating with two BBM's, and they occasionally launch a good volley into goal, while handling what needs to be handled elsewhere.

DM and AM slots can be interesting. Currently I'm going with a double pivot approach with a DLP(De) and an Enganche, which works decently enough. However, if you want to make your diamond (again, an asset) to move smoothly upfield with the ball, the roles really shouldn't hold position. If they do, the diamond gets a bit elongated, and you start getting intercepted a bit more frequently. DLP(Su) and AP(At) work fairly well, but DLP(Su) isn't as good at preventing direct counterattacks as the DLP(De).

For striker pairs, it's really whatever you want it to be. If your diamond works, the play should either be a throughball at the edge of the box from your AM or CM's, or the odd cross from your wingers. Most strikers should be able to feed off that with ease.

Here's my current setup:

Here's the season so far:

This system relies on zonal tight marking, specifically aimed at pushing the ball back to the center by annoying the opposition wingers with tight marking and shoving them to the wrong foot. Defensively it is very solid, despite being high up the pitch with stay on feet enabled and average pressing intensity.

Some formations are difficult to score against, particularly those with 3 CD's, but that is to be expected.

You might notice this is a very low intensity tactic. I also have a cautious tactic with the lowest possible tempo that's just a sliver of green in intensity. Primarily I did this because Brazil eventually becomes crazy with the number of matches you're expected to handle, and I needed something that could withstand 2-3 matches a week for months at a time with little damage to the squad. Higher tempos can (but not always) increase offensive effectiveness.  For now, this is working decently enough.

[OxfordUnitedFC]

Switched to a 442 diamond and currently having the best season I have had, much more successful than my usual 433.

I have been using a shadow striker/advanced playmaker on attack, deep lying playmaker paired with a cm both on support behind with an anchor man at the base of the 4.

Found it gives me far more control of the midfield and also gives me 3 regular goal scorers.

[Novem9]

В 17.04.2022 в 02:46, Prepper_Jack сказал:

4-4-2 Diamond Narrow is a pretty vertical structure that lends itself well to patient approaches. In a patient game, the ball goes kind of effortlessly up through the middle of the field, with lots of triangles at your disposal. If you wish to complement this, you can go with two inverted wingbacks, which will essentially make it a 2-3-2-1-2 during the attack, and virtually unstoppable in the midfield. If you go with normal wingbacks, I might suggest the Wb(De), which will provide reasonable defenses on your wings, and be a bit of a sleeper on the attack. They won't cross often, but when they do the defense won't be prepared.

For central midfield, I typically avoid the mezzala role with 4-4-2 diamond, as they kind of run off and do their own thing, while the diamond shape is an asset to exploit - one that can carry you into their final third with a bit more ease, like a slow moving turtle.. but one that wins the race. CAR is ok, helping a bit on the width front, operating in a peculiar and kind of useful space, but can be a bit passive, and wasteful if you have some real talent in midfield. Right now I'm operating with two BBM's, and they occasionally launch a good volley into goal, while handling what needs to be handled elsewhere.

DM and AM slots can be interesting. Currently I'm going with a double pivot approach with a DLP(De) and an Enganche, which works decently enough. However, if you want to make your diamond (again, an asset) to move smoothly upfield with the ball, the roles really shouldn't hold position. If they do, the diamond gets a bit elongated, and you start getting intercepted a bit more frequently. DLP(Su) and AP(At) work fairly well, but DLP(Su) isn't as good at preventing direct counterattacks as the DLP(De).

For striker pairs, it's really whatever you want it to be. If your diamond works, the play should either be a throughball at the edge of the box from your AM or CM's, or the odd cross from your wingers. Most strikers should be able to feed off that with ease.

Here's my current setup:

Here's the season so far:

This system relies on zonal tight marking, specifically aimed at pushing the ball back to the center by annoying the opposition wingers with tight marking and shoving them to the wrong foot. Defensively it is very solid, despite being high up the pitch with stay on feet enabled and average pressing intensity.

Some formations are difficult to score against, particularly those with 3 CD's, but that is to be expected.

You might notice this is a very low intensity tactic. I also have a cautious tactic with the lowest possible tempo that's just a sliver of green in intensity. Primarily I did this because Brazil eventually becomes crazy with the number of matches you're expected to handle, and I needed something that could withstand 2-3 matches a week for months at a time with little damage to the squad. Higher tempos can (but not always) increase offensive effectiveness.  For now, this is working decently enough.

You just destroyed the world of my theory  always assumed that EG needed to active WB (s/a)

Thank you for detailed response , I need a time to realize all things you noted 

 

В 17.04.2022 в 16:09, OxfordUnitedFC сказал:

Switched to a 442 diamond and currently having the best season I have had, much more successful than my usual 433.

I have been using a shadow striker/advanced playmaker on attack, deep lying playmaker paired with a cm both on support behind with an anchor man at the base of the 4.

Found it gives me far more control of the midfield and also gives me 3 regular goal scorers.

Your switch of SS/AP related of diffrenet players or what a reason? I tried to use AP too, but he walks deeper for me (no traits)

[OxfordUnitedFC]

1 hour ago, Novem9 said:

You just destroyed the world of my theory  always assumed that EG needed to active WB (s/a)

Thank you for detailed response , I need a time to realize all things you noted 

 

Your switch of SS/AP related of diffrenet players or what a reason? I tried to use AP too, but he walks deeper for me (no traits)

Yes have 2 players in that position, one more of a goal scorer and one more of a creator so just depends what I feel I need for the game. That’s exactly how it plays out too, SS gets more goals, AP gets more assists.

[alexchen123]

On 16/04/2022 at 16:46, Prepper_Jack said:

4-4-2 Diamond Narrow is a pretty vertical structure that lends itself well to patient approaches. In a patient game, the ball goes kind of effortlessly up through the middle of the field, with lots of triangles at your disposal. If you wish to complement this, you can go with two inverted wingbacks, which will essentially make it a 2-3-2-1-2 during the attack, and virtually unstoppable in the midfield. If you go with normal wingbacks, I might suggest the Wb(De), which will provide reasonable defenses on your wings, and be a bit of a sleeper on the attack. They won't cross often, but when they do the defense won't be prepared.

For central midfield, I typically avoid the mezzala role with 4-4-2 diamond, as they kind of run off and do their own thing, while the diamond shape is an asset to exploit - one that can carry you into their final third with a bit more ease, like a slow moving turtle.. but one that wins the race. CAR is ok, helping a bit on the width front, operating in a peculiar and kind of useful space, but can be a bit passive, and wasteful if you have some real talent in midfield. Right now I'm operating with two BBM's, and they occasionally launch a good volley into goal, while handling what needs to be handled elsewhere.

DM and AM slots can be interesting. Currently I'm going with a double pivot approach with a DLP(De) and an Enganche, which works decently enough. However, if you want to make your diamond (again, an asset) to move smoothly upfield with the ball, the roles really shouldn't hold position. If they do, the diamond gets a bit elongated, and you start getting intercepted a bit more frequently. DLP(Su) and AP(At) work fairly well, but DLP(Su) isn't as good at preventing direct counterattacks as the DLP(De).

For striker pairs, it's really whatever you want it to be. If your diamond works, the play should either be a throughball at the edge of the box from your AM or CM's, or the odd cross from your wingers. Most strikers should be able to feed off that with ease.

Here's my current setup:

Here's the season so far:

This system relies on zonal tight marking, specifically aimed at pushing the ball back to the center by annoying the opposition wingers with tight marking and shoving them to the wrong foot. Defensively it is very solid, despite being high up the pitch with stay on feet enabled and average pressing intensity.

Some formations are difficult to score against, particularly those with 3 CD's, but that is to be expected.

You might notice this is a very low intensity tactic. I also have a cautious tactic with the lowest possible tempo that's just a sliver of green in intensity. Primarily I did this because Brazil eventually becomes crazy with the number of matches you're expected to handle, and I needed something that could withstand 2-3 matches a week for months at a time with little damage to the squad. Higher tempos can (but not always) increase offensive effectiveness.  For now, this is working decently enough.

Is there a way that I can utilize my right wing back (he is really fast and strong) while using this formation? Ijust lost my wings, but I have deep squad in middle field, appreciate it if you can shed some lights.