I tried again

[Hoof-it]

So my previous attempt with everton was abit of disaster. Tried multiple times and nothing ever really got going. We just had a lot of false dawns. Then i went away and started reading some old threads.

I also watched a video on youtube on the coaches voice with moyes talking about his everton side and there evouloution as a team. With these two resources it gave me an idea in my head for base of a formation and roles and duties to put together. Unlike last time where i was trying to just fit a sqaud together, without really any idea what i wanted. The team i picked is David Moyes current team West Ham.

Cleon talks alot about the 4231 and how in real life this is more a realistic version of how the teams set up. The reason i picked the roles and duties are because of the following.

Goalkeeper: Pretty standard don't need anything else from him.

Centre backs: The same nothing special just need them to head balls clear and play simple passes.

Left back: Complete wingback attack. The reason i picked this role is because on the video on coaches voice moyes talks abit about the Baines and peinaar relationship and how they attacked down that side and i wanted to get something similar going.

Right back: Wing back defend. Ill be honest this is copying Herne a little in his post on no team instruction or player instructions with west ham where he uses zabaleta in this kind of role.

Defensive midfeild: Deep lying playmaker support and segundo volante support. Based it on what they play like in real life. Alot of west ham play goes through declan rice and figured a dlp, where he demands the ball would suit him with his passing range and the ppm switch ball to wide areas which results in some lovely diagnals to Bowen. Soucek is quite simple, he gets up and down the pitch while choosing his moment whether to get in to the box.

Left wing: Inverted winger support. To cut inside and play balls inside in to fornals, bowen or antonio. Or cut inside and play the ball to the on coming cresswell on the overlap.

Right wing: Inverted winger attack. To do pretty much same as left wing but also make sure ive got people in the box for cresswell to aim at and give rice options when switching the ball.

Central midfielder attack: Get close to antonio to make sure he isn't isolated and run beyond him.

Target forward attack. I did initially have this on support but found he comes back and defends too much and really need some one to hit up feild to hold on to the ball for Vlasic Fornals and bowen. He links play and is always in the box when the ball goes out wide.

 

 

 

 

 

Only played till January and we are preforming way above expectations. Hopefully, unlike my Everton save where i had plenty of false starts and this isn't that. However i am seeing alot of things that i wanted to see when i put this team together. It will be whether this tactic holds up second half of season when sides adjust and play more negatively and space in behind isnt there anymore. 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Hoof-it

[kalongtongan]

I really like the pairs and combinations of positions that you do, it fits very well with the philosophy I do, which is to try mimic 4231 on irl.
maybe i will try this formation in my save.
I'm just curious how the movement of rb if it is replaced with FBs?

[Hoof-it]

I haven't tried that so i wouldnt be able to tell you. But from my limited knowledge of how things pair together i can't see it much wrong with it. As stated it very much is copied from herne where he had yarmolenko as a treq a infront of wb defend and i really wasn't sure what role to use, so i picked that role.

[Cam NBH]

Great stuff, you tried again, stripped it all back to basics and what do you know, it worked. Posts like this will give people who struggle encouragement.

 

 

 

[Hoof-it]

Yeah the game is better when i have less to understand. I did no Tis or Pis with everton on previous post just got it horribly wrong. I also think people underestimate how much inspiration of a real life team would probably help them because i really didnt think it would help as much as it had help me.

[Cam NBH]

12 minutes ago, Hoof-it said:

Yeah the game is better when i have less to understand. I did no Tis or Pis with everton on previous post just got it horribly wrong. I also think people underestimate how much inspiration of a real life team would probably help them because i really didnt think it would help as much as it had help me.

Same for me. There are so many options to choose from, sometimes keeping it simple just helps.

 

Pleased it worked for you, good luck for 2nd half of season mate

[Hoof-it]

So i finished second half of the season and everything that did go wrong happened but i dont think its down to the tactic. I think sometimes context is key with your seasons and certain things can change everything. However i did make a tactical change in the second half which was Coufal to wing back support. Mainly with more teams dropping back for him to offer more support going forward.

 

 

 It was after the Manchester united game when i changed to WB s with coufal and as you can see we went on a little run with progression in europe. Then when i mentioned everything went wrong did go wrong these injuries happened.

 

 

 

Being west ham i don't have the players to fill the depth in and i think thats where it went wrong. With also making sacrifices in april to focus on the european games. I think not having the depth and having to overplay my key players cost me in the end but the thing ive took the most away from all this is the game isn't that complexed and i don't need a million instructions and some mad high press tactic with 40 players cause it causes loads of injuries. Also the tactic isn't everything theres games in the bad run where i had a kral and noble midfeild. 

 

#

 

Also here are the most notable stats. Thank you to the people that helped me on the previous thread and any newcomers to the forum should really read alot of the old posts about the game as it is pure gold. This is definitely a new way of playing the game for me.

 

 

 

 

 

[Cam NBH]

8th not too bad at all. Also looks like you mostly lost to big teams or in derby/tough games bar a few slip ups.

 

I wonder if a slightly tweaked more attacking version of your tactic that you could switch to may have helped get a few more points? Maybe up to positive and a couple of adjustments of roles or duties? Did you do anything like this when losing or chasing a game?

 

Good thread btw

 

 

[Hoof-it]

There's probably a few things I could of done and I think mainly it's just be abit more aggressive out of possession I don't think it's necessary to up the mentality. Also I didn't change anything only duties I changed was coufal to wb s and the striker to DLF a to when mavididi and Antonio was injured. Also gave me some good insights into xg. So we would normally be close on xg if you looked at the stats that we have on screen in between highlights. I checked the shot map and for alot of games we had the majority of higher xg chances. 

[Cam NBH]

Fair enough, looked like an enjoyable season anyway.

[Johnny Ace]

@Hoof-ityou really seem to have a thing for a TF. I don't blame you but they really need players in close proximity. Have you tried one in a 4-4-2? Could work well at Everton with DCL and Ricarlison

[Hoof-it]

DLF a does work aswell. I just love a target man in real life. Which probably makes me gravitate to the role. Also I think I might get hung up on the passing attribute too much with them. As dcl and Antonio both have 11 passing which isn't terrible. So my instinct is to go target man and use there physical strengths. Never played the 442 either. In all my time In FM, I never get it to work. It could be something I try to do at another time though.

 

 

[Johnny Ace]

I like using a DLF(A) as a Target Man alternative, it's a bit more mobile and doesn't have the TM focus. Someone who's strong and can hold of the defenders. Even if their passing isn't brilliant, it's not the be all and end all because it's not like they need to be pulling off Worldie pin point passes. On a Support duty, it's a bit more important   

The way I see it, there's two types of DLF, the quick nimble players who can dribble well and pick a good pass from deep, then the big players that drop off and hold off the defence, lay it off and burst forward 

Getting a player with both sets of skills is DLF nirvana   

I've used TFs down in the lower leagues in 4-2-3-1's and 4-4-2's where the players are a bit more limited so a TF suits them better & they have plenty of support around them to make up for their lack of mobility. 

[Hoof-it]

Yea the version of the DLF where he is big and just holds the ball up is what I was looking for. I think both work well in this system. I have used both. DLF with move into channels is probably something I should look in to for more space for the players behind him.

[Johnny Ace]

2 minutes ago, Hoof-it said:

Yea the version of the DLF where he is big and just holds the ball up is what I was looking for

Not just holding up, you want him scoring too! 

I'm not at the game right now, but I'm sure I used Antonio as a DLF(A) and Bowen as an IF(A) and it worked really well, both scored plenty. I figured a DLF wasn't a 100% out and out goalscorer like an AF or Poacher so I got a wide player in as a goal threat too  

[Hoof-it]

Yeah neither of my strikers scored alot last year so defo something to look at. Main goals was Bowen and fornals. Going to use DLF a start of next season

Edited April 11, 2022 by Hoof-it