Trying to create Mourinhos Roma using reallife statistics

[robot_9x3]

Hello Community,

I tried to build a tactic which is at least somewhat close to Mourinhos Roma in Fm21( I know wrong FM to try it).

Introduction

To get at least somewhat close to the style, after having watched some games, I used the stat website FBRef to have a look at what they do statistically. It's free and I do not need to create an Account to see stats, I only have to watch some ad every so often. They have a lot of stats, although I would wish they had their depth of stats for every team of every season, I would love to look at Mourinhos Chelsea from 2004/2005 to get an better understanding what they did, but thats a dream.  If you have another stats website which is free to use please let me know. I hope all the screenshots I have taken are uploadable, although I will probably leave some out.

So for my approach I looked at some stats which I hope and think will at least give me a somewhat clear picture, on how to setup this Roma. I am new to this, tactics recreations as well as taking stats into account, so if you think I did interpret something horribly wrong please let me know.

Please don't criticize choices I made because "his other teams did that differently" or "he is known for x so that should be a given", an example here would be this will not be close to how his Inter lost 0:1 to Barcelona or his Chelsea side that let Gerrads Liverpool slip 2:0, so this will not be a deep block with the only aim to nullify and score with luck. Does anyone really think he had some of the highest scoring teams in the world because he trusted his luck in every game?

I have not played league matches with this yet, as I am still tinkering around. But I wanted to get some feedback, please don't be annoyed with me, if you do not get the results you expect. If you think this is absolutley not how this Roma side plays again feel free to point out what bothers you and why.

Formation

Let's start easy the Formation the TV Stations show it and which I think describes the defensiv shape okayish is a 3-4-2-1 or a 5-2-2-1.

Basic tactical style

In Possession

Width

I went with Fairly Wide having watched some games the wing players are really wide during the build up, nearly hugging the lines. Also both AMs often drift wide. It stands to reason to go to the extremes and choose extremly wide, I will shy away from this prefering to keep things more balanced by not getting to extreme.

Approach Play

Play out of defence: I choose this because when watching the games it seems obvious that the Roma side doesn't punt ball up field unnecassary. Having looked at some stats, searching one that supports this, they are the 8th worst in "clearances".
Also looking at player passing stats we get this:

Image:https://fbref.com stats showing player passing stats.

Both outer Centerbacks pass a lot, 1st and 4th in passing atempts per 90. That may also indicate their roles and how I see them.

Passing Directness and Tempo

Tempo: Standard
 To get to this I lokked at possession and passes per 90, dividing passes per 90 with possession gives me passes per 1% of possesion. Not really the best approach but the best I could come up with, without spending too much time on this. Also this keeps it quite easy.

I calculated that for all SerieA teams. The mean value would be 9,68 passes per 1% possession and the median value would be 9,53 passes per 1% possession. Roma sits at 9,66 passes per1% possession. I also calculated these values for LaLiga and the Premier League, LaLiga plays slower and the PremierLeague plays generally a little bit faster. i don't know if FM takes this into account, but Roma being almost on the mean Value for SerieA made the coice easy to set Tempo to Standard.

Passing Directness: Slightly more Direct

We have values for short, medium and long range passes attempted, I put these into my Excel sheet and calculated a percentage how many passes of each type were played.

Image: FBRef stats used to calculate passes per type.

For those who checked the numbers, yes 34+43+21=98 I am missing 2% passing, I hope it's down to rounding errors.

I did this for all Serie A Teams to have something to compare it to. Roma seems to play more medium and long range passes than the average would, explaining why I chose Slightly more Direct Passing

Attacking third

Final third

Work Ball into the Box
Here I am more unsure.
For this I looked at xG per Shot, Roma has a value of 0,10 which is the third heighest, they share this with a bunch of other teams. But being the third heighest they obviously seem to create good opportunites.

Seeing that many teams create this value we could also say no option should be chosen.

Looking at Romas shots per 90 of 15,5 they seem to shoot often, again third heighest value in Serie A. How un-Mourinho like for a Mourinho team shouldn't they not only have one shot if that failes play for a draw?, just kidding.

Dribbling: Run at Defence

For this I looked at "shot creating actions"

Roma are quite high vor Passing Dead(80) which means set pieces, and are third again for dribblings(40), also shots after a shot are quite heigh so obviously they have people in the area when something happens(probably role and duty relevant).

Creative Freedom: More Expressive

Here I go by statements I  have read somewhere, a difference between Mourinho and Conte for example seems to be, that Conte drills his teams to have certain patterns of play as a fallback option to move forward and score. It's often said that Mourinho is more Laissez Faire, so letting his talented attackers free to use their skills. That's really all my reasoning here.

Image: In Possession Instructions

In Transition

When Possession Has Been Lost

Here I don’t go by stats but by gut feeling, from having watched some games. It’s not that Roma start a counter-press 100% of the time or fall back into position directly after losing the ball, so I left default, leaving it up to the players to make the right call.

When Possession Has Been Won

Mourinho Team so certainly Counter right?
I have not found any stat that would indicate that and from having watched the games. Yes if a counter opportunity arises, they will start a counter, but not each and every time they have regained possession. If the opportunity is not good enough they seem to be contend to build up play. They are not a counter attacking machine like his Real Madrid side was. Again nothing picked leaving it to the players.

Goalkeeper Possession

I let him do what he deems to be right, there were games I was sure he aimed for Tammy Abraham upfront, but there were games were he just passed it to the next CD.

 

Image: InTransition Instructions nothing picked

Out of Possession
Here I am way more uncertain, so feedback welcome.

Defensive Shape

LOE- Deep/Standard

For this I looked at pressures.

Well they pressure in the attacking third, but only mid table wise in volume, so either Standard which I think is appropriate or even a notch deeper.
Why the notch deeper Idea? For pressures in the Midfield third and the Defensive third they are 4th and 3rd in Serie A so that’s where there real pressing kicks in.
I went with Standard, because on deeper the front three don't pressure enough for my liking.

DL-Standard or even higher

Here I looked at who pressures where. I don’t know what the right choice is, because I haven’t seen the Fullbacks too far up the "pressures in midfield third table" but the Dms are quite far up. In the Formation they are in the same line so they would be put into the same field, I went with higher, Roma is a top team, and this creates at least a somewhat more compact block and helps pressing in the Midfield third.
My second Idea would be to move the DMs to CMS and put the DL to Standard which I think is closer to that happens in reality.

Defensive Width: Standard
UNSURE

Well this is a Mourinho Team, he won’t give you a way to beat him easily. So I don’t give up the Flanks and I also won’t give up the Center.
Having looked at what other teams do against Roma:
Crossing is not the main option it seems, having faced the 5th least crosses in SerieA.
They faced middling number of through balls 9th most. 

Which I thinks at least helps my point in leaving it as is.

Marking and Tackling

Again Difficult

Roma tops the Yellow Card chart, they are also a team which wins the ball quite often back due to tackling, and a high-middle interception rate.
Surely Tackling Get Stuck In right? No.. having watched some games, they don’t slide into tackles all that often, it’s uncommon in todays’ game in general.
But how else would I get the tackling and pressure rate?
In this iteration I tried one notch higher closing down with mark tighter. The idea behind this is:
Mark Tighter we are close to the opposition, so if we don’t make the interception we are in a position to engage directly.
The higher closing down is again down to the team being quite high for pressures in the midfield and defensive third.

Something rather interesting Roma is quite adapt at catching the opposition offside being the third best team in this regard,  that seems deliberate so I will use the offside trap -> that maybe supports my idea of setting the DL a notch higher.

Image: FBRef Stat showing Roma third best team in catching oppositions offside

Image: Out Of Possession Instructions with DMs

Roles and Duties

 

Let’s start at the back.

Goalkeeper just a Goalkepper on Defend

3 Central defenders
L-CD Ballplaying CD Stopper (Ibanez)
C-CD Defend (Smalling) why defend? To be able to pull of the Offside trap, way more difficult with him covering.
R-CD Ballplaying CD Stopper (Mancini)

I already said Ibanez and Mancini are quite high in the passing charts that’s why they are BPDs.
So why the Stopper duty you may ask? Having looked at who collects the most yellow cards.

Image: FBRef stats who gets Yellow Cards

They both are in the Top5 so they seem to do some heavy lifting in stopping the opposition.

Wingbacks
I am lazy so both Wingbacks on Automatic, just so I can switch through Mentalities and have them do what is needed.
I may have to look into Player Instructions such as Stay Wider, but so far having played a few friendlies they seemed fine.

DMS or CMS?

DMs

Right DM (Cristante) the stats show quite a lot of fouls by him, as well as a lot of passes and through balls so I went with DLP Support.

Left DM (Oliveira) stats don’t indicate much, but he attempts quite a few tacklings so either DM support or even BWM-Support I went with DM-Support in this iteration.

CMs

Right CM - DLP D why? Lets start with the duty, for that I looked at the pressure stats, Oliveira is way more likely to press in the attacking third, so that indicates that his partner who is some places down in the charts, is less adventurous.

Image: FBRef stats Pressures sorted by attacking third.

The Stats get more equal in the Middle third, still with Oliveira leading by some margin, but in the defensive third Cristante becomes the leading pressurer but just slightly.

Why have Cristante as a DLP?
look at the passing stats:

Image: FBRef Passing Stats Oliveira and Cristante in Roma Team

Cristante is almost at the top for passes attempted per 90. which indicates he quite often gets the ball and moves it around, sounds pretty playmakerish to me.

Left CM

Having shown these stats I think a Ballwinning midfielder on support could be the right choice. maybe even a CM on Automatic to also have him adhere to the Mentality some more, e.g. Defensive = Park the Bus don't move up.
I went with the BWM on Support. especially because he is one of the leading tacklers vs dribblers, except for the Wingbacks, he also has less Interceptions than Cristante also indicating he performs pressures which are covered by Cristante.

AMS
This was really difficult, last game I watched it was Pellegrini and Mkhitaryan, with Mkhy most of the time a little deeper than Pellegrini and the Striker.

Left AMC (Pellegrini) Maybe a Shadow Striker? Surely not a Trequartista or an Engache, he was in and around the penalty box, tackled and pressed almost everywhere. Maybe even a AP-A but that's the role I have next to him, maybe a AM-A, again not sure the stats did not give me something which I think pointed to one direction.

Right AMC (Mhky) as I said AP-A he often looked alittle deeper than the Striker and his AM partner, plus he was more involved being targeted more and having more touches overall. Interestingly he had more passes in the box than his Partner, but Pellegrini was a lot more occupied with carrying the ball again indicating the SS Role which also dribbles more and moves into channels, explaining why he was found more often in a wider position.

Striker
STC (Tammy Abraham) I went with Advanced Forward, while I think Mourinhos forwards are complete forwards (Targetman, poacher, DLf all in one) when watching Tammy or the other strikers at Roma, they are not as involved in build up, as for example a Karim Benzema was in his Real side or a Lewandowski is for Bayern. The focus of the strikers is more to score than to build up. Not to a degree which would warrant a Poacher though, so I took the more or less default role for strikers.

End Result:

Images: Formation with CMs vs Formation with DMs

Extra

Something that needs to be stressed again which I mentioned in passing, Roma creates the most amount of Chances with Deadball Situations aka Setpieces in Serie A. So if you have some good routines throw them in there.
Some Ideas I picked up but haven't been able to get them working as good from watching:

1. The Striker almost always marks the Keeper.
2. Have more than one variant,
   1. Variant1: load the 5Yard box play it to the first post, either your strong players there can score or the ball slips through giving the striker marking the keeper or someone who started from the box or who waited at the far post the chance to tab it in.
   2. Variant2: Striker mark the keeper, Iv1 attack from the edge of the box, Iv2 attack the near post IV3 attack the far post delivery seems to not be fixed to a place
3. Have people outside the box
4. Have people stay back or that stay back if needed
5. When defending try to create counter opportunities -> no one stays forward, and the fastest man stays at the edge of the box

I do not have any meaningful results right now, as I am still experimenting with the system overall, especially Possession is something I can struggle for when I should not. That's my first draft and my first try, so feedback more than welcome.
 

Edited April 8, 2022 by robot_9x3
changed: spelling

[De Nile]

So did it work?

You can say this is the same as thinking logically not in FM logic which is a good thing to do most of the time.

[robot_9x3]

Hello all,
@De Nile and thank you for geting me out of my demotivation zone.

Sorry there was no update this long.
In short:

The idea did not really work and I was a little bit demotivated the last few weeks. But now I pulled out the save and some of my notes again to update you all.

The 5-2-2-1 Dm System was a total disaster. As you might guess with Wingbacks and DMS our midfield pressing begins quite late which put us under lots of pressure. We conceded way to much.

So i started a new with the 5-2-2-1 CM System.

Botf Systems mostly have the same flaws, but with the CM-System we get a little bit more pressure before we are in our defensive third. Which more closely resembles what I have seen on TV when watching Roma games.
There are stll some aspects which are not really close enough, and as my demotivation probably tells the results did not make up for that.

Since I am still on FM 21 I only have the lack luster DataHub but I think it tells the story really well:

Image: DataHub Roma Compared to SerieA-Average

So what have I noticed during the games:

THE BAD

1. We do not create enough chances, we don't score enough, we don't create enough clear cut chances.
2. We struggle for possession ~46%
3. Not seeing one the, in my Eyes, default attacking patterns
4. Weak Defense, conceding way too much
5. Offside trap was caught too much, especially early on
6. Not enough Yellow Cards

THE OKAYISH

1. Midblock resembles Roma
2. Okay against bigger teams (Switching Mentalities works as intended)

Now  a closer look

Let's start with the okayish.

The Midblock worked, we won the ball a lot in the midfield third, it did not look like there is a sure fire way to beat us(eventhough we conceded too much).

We were okay gainst the bigger teams, playing on Defensive Mentality:

Images: scorlines against bigger teams.

We only lost to Milan, we drew Lazio but won against Inter Neapel and Juve.
Juve should have probably beaten us but they did not look to dangerous, so we Fmed them.

Image: Stats vs Juve 18 to 3 shots, 1,66xG to 0,18xG

After half a season so 19 games played, we won 6 drawn 7, lost 6 have a goal difference of -2 and just 25 Points.
Not as bad as you might think we are only 2 Points off of international places but already 8 Points to reach Champions League football. But still BAD.

 

What wen bad, how do I try to fix it?

Als always if you have input on how to do something better, I would love to hear it.

Let's start with the attack

To fix our dead attack, I thought about removing "Work ball into box" obviously that should get the shot count up, hopefully somewhere near the 15 shots a game.

What it will hopefully also do is make us cross more. As I said I am missing one attacking pattern I have seen quite often from the Roma:

Image: Early Cross behind the defence for a Striker to rush onto

Roma likes to play "early" crosses behind the defence when they are wide, mostly for Tammy Abraham to rush onto and slot the ball in. I think I have not seen any highlight in which my Roma tries to do anything like that. I think that might be down to "work ball into box".
For now I refrain from "hit early crosses", the real life statistics tell us Roma is not a cross heavy team, unlike Inter.

Image: FBRef Pass Type statistics Serie A (22.04.2022) showing Roma in 10th place for crossing attempts.

Although I am not sure about the "hit early crosses", as I tried to argue myself into them with "even with that option ticked, you are not cross heavy, as your Wingbacks are not instructed to cross more often"
Do you guys have an opinion on this?

I thought about changing some roles or duties but I really could not see which change would make us create more chances.

My Next Task is to get the Possession up.

We sit at 46% and should be at around 53%.

I can't or won't change more in Possession instructions as all of them are chosen for a specific reason, unless I see they don't work or don't create the style we want to achieve I won't change them around.

I changed a in Transition instruction. I saw that most of our lost long balls were played by our Goalkeeper, so I switched him to playing it out short.

I also thought about moving the Wingbacks up to the AM Position having them play as Defensive Wingers on Support. In my head that should help us in our midfield press, which equals more balls won earlier which in turn means more Possession. Also they would be higher up so more involved  with build up and in the attacking third.

For now that's a thought experiment, I have refrained from it so far as the defence is not really all that solid so remoivng to players there seems counter productive.
And I have to admit I have not used defensive Winger all that much, I don't know what exactly to expect from them in offensively or defensively. I will have to test around a bit.

The other thing I thought about to help us rotate the ball better would be to have the DLP-D become a DLP-S he should still hold his position, so being defensively responsible, but on support he should be a more active making himself more available for passes and thus distributing more helping us keep Possession.

Now to the dissapointing Defence.

Let's start with curious expectations:  we don't concede enough Yellow Cards.
I told you Roma topped the Yellow Card chart when the first post was written.

Image: FM21 Statistic Yellow Cards Roma 20th of 20

My Roma side is dead last in the league. "Mission failed! we get them next time".

Mourinhos Roma is adept at winning the ball by tackling which also leads to fouls and yellow cards, my Roma is the exact opposite.

How do we remedy this?
I can only think of one thing, while I was agianst it in the first post hoping "Thighter Marking" and a "Higher Closing Down" would be enough to get us in tackling positions, I think I have to ask my players to "Get Stuck In", idealy we should do that in our midblock so we should not foul to often in our Penaltybox or closely around it.
The other disapointment:  team intern my two Ballplaying Centerbacks on Stopper duty are middling in "tackles completed" and in "Yellow Cards" received. Who gets Yellow Cards? The first is unsurpisingly my first choice BWM with the most Yellow Cards, second is my CD D, third is my second choice BWM.
Sadly Fm21 stats fail me here, as I don't have a number for tackles attempted, it could be that both BPD-Ss would be leading in tackles attempted, and they just misstime their tackles so horribly, that they miss the ball and the opposition entirely, it could be right?

i don't really know what else to do here. To stop the stupid goals we concede, I hope with get stuck in we do create more turnovers thus again helping our possession. Maybe it even stopps the stupid goals because now when someone tries to paly a deadly pass or shoot  one of my defenders should be flying in.

The other thing with the conceded goals is, I can't see a pattern, while early on I was sure the offside trap kills us, that stopped after some games. Sometimes it's a long ball over the top, than agian the opposition obviously has prime Xavi and Iniesta and short passes himself through us and on other occassions it's a cross that connects.

Immage: assits locations

Looking at the assist locations 5 assists from inside our penalty box, 5 from our right side.

Could it be that the DLP-D doesn't do enough to help protect the flank? I doubt the left Wingback performs his defensive duties so much better compared to the right Wingback.
That 5 assists come from inside the penalty box, again tells me maybe we don't try to disposess the opposition with enough determination. Again nudging me towards Get Stuck In.

So that would be my update I will close this with the new approach, I hope I can get some games in this weekend, although I now it will not be as many as I would like... Stupid real life pretending to be more important than FM.

Updated approach:

Image: new 5-2-2-1

Image: New in possession instructions

Image: new in Transition instructions

Image: new Out of Possesion instructions

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by robot_9x3
fixed wording

[De Nile]

Tactical recreations are hard to perform in FM so don't beat yourself up about it. Sometimes what I usually do is compromise a role or an instruction so the tactic can work in most cases you have a tactic that on paper doesn't look right but when played out behaves and transitions exactly how you want it to.

[robot_9x3]

They are as I am finding out.

As I am getting a little bit unsure, is there some thing in this that screams "This won't work"?

I have watched Roma-Inter today a nice overview of how Roma looks when nothing works and they try to go back to their basics.
I took some notes, still a a lot will be close to where my idea has progressed to so far.

[WhyMe]

Can't comment on replication terms but in FM terms the thing that leaps out at me is you having your defence on defend, midfield on support (counting WB as midfield here) and front 3 on attack.  Very little movement between the lines (and no roaming roles either to try to create any confusion/lateral movement) and that should make it easy to defend against.  Yes you are playing direct so this is less bad, but box midfields are really hard to get right (at least I've always struggled) and the lack of movement is probably what is killing you in the ME.  Only problem is any suggestions for fixing it in FM terms will take you away from the replication as the roles and duties you have selected make sense for the replication, it just doesn't work in the match engine.

[robot_9x3]

@WhyMe You are right there are not many "complex" movement patterns and in order for my replica to be replicating the style I can't just add them just for the match engines sake.

To further elaborate:
That movement point is something that is said a lot on the forums.
I have to admit I do not fully grasp why I might be missing movement and what exactly are movements.

I know I don’t have the "base movement pairs" like (“DLF-S and SS-A” or “IW-S and FB-A”)
Additionaly when people say movement they seem to mostly mean “Attack duties further down”

I am not a fan of many attack duties unlike some Youtubers/Twitchstreamers.

Sure for like 10 seconds when everyone moves in position there is this overwhelming movement from:

Image: starting shape 5-2-2-1, created with tactical-board dot com

To something that resembles this:

image: attacking positions, created with tactical-board dot com

I know the AP-A will not be that high up as he still likes to play as a Number10.

But isn't that basically what an Attack duty does in terms of position: it tells players move faster to the attacking position. Or am I oversimplifying something?
I know once in attack position they do those little "for and back”-dances which I think should indicate the player trying to make a run into space a.k.a. an attacking threat.

Maybe because I would like to play more direct, that is something I should do to have more direct options upfront.
Especially returning to the replica aspects: the Wingbacks during Roma-Inter seemed to be WB-D and WB-A. As Zalewski was way deeper, keeping close to the Centerbacks, while Karsdorp was way higher up on a line with the strikers really early some times.

But that could have been a one off thing for this game as normally Zalewski is not that reserved.

Back towards my irritation towards movement,
My WB-S absolutely end up higher up the pitch, not as early as WB-As sure, but they provide a passing option in the buildup phase and are not completely out of position should we fail during this phase.
The AP-A often drops being available in the classic Number 10 Spot from where he can either dribble towards goal or make a pass. If he is followed there is space for the Striker to exploit.
The BWM-S often ends up arriving late at the edge of the box, which most CM-S do (i think), plus with 3 man in front of him who are told to crowd the box he is not required to be in the box early.

When we are in the attacking third for example my shape often looks like this(Invert the WB-S Position if the ball is on the other side):

image: My attacking position with possible movement options

That often leaves the WB-S on the ball-far side free, to either start a movement or be available for a switch, which moves the opposition.
When the BWM-S arrives late he is often unmarked as a R-CD should be occupied by the SS-A and a L-CD (or C-CD in a three at the back) should be occupied with the AF-A. Of course it’s rare but the movement is there.

Most of my movements do not come from pre-planed player exchanges (for example IW-S and FB-A or DLF-S and SS-A) but from players dribbling which is a target of the tactic.

The only zone I want to overcrowd to score is, obviously, the center having 9 Players( 8+ Goalkeeper) there. That should create space on the Wings for the early crosses behind the defence I would like to create, but am failing so far.

If this cross is not possible we should have enough players in the center to create something or let the ball circulate.

Maybe I am getting just getting wrong what exactly is meant by "movement", but I think there is movement in the tactic.
 

Just to add something I would really not classify as Movement is( @WhyMe just to be clear: I did not understand your comment as: "slap attack duties on it".) :
The extremes some People do, playing on Attacking-Mentality with basically everyone bar the Centerbacks on Attack, praising there attacking output winning every game 7:5, basically playing Fergie-Time tactics for 90 minutes instead of 10…

Of course you score a lot you just outnumber their backline that’s not movement, that’s the AI not being able to create a back-6/7 to cover everyone you position on the last line.
But thats not realistic and far too infrequently punished, in my opinion.

Just to get this to an end, are movements created by dribblings really that much weaker?
Did I get totally wrong what is meant by movement?
Am I missing something crucial?

[WhyMe]

Hi Robot, a lot to unpick there and I am by no means the tactical expert some on this forum are, but I'll have a go.

Firstly, you are quite right I wasn't just suggesting slap attack duties on it and I completely agree that that style isn't punished enough often.

However, when I was talking about movement between the lines I was talking about interchanging of position between strata the examples you gave of overlapping fullbacks of inverted wingers or SS over DLF are indeed two examples of that.  These have the advantage of creating space for one of your players or at least confusion in the opposition defence.  For example, CB moves out of his position to mark the forward dropping deep and the SS bursts in behind him to score.  However, these classic examples aren't the only way of doing this.  Take your tactic for example, you have your AF pinning back the opposition defence and trying to get in behind, that can create a bit of space for your SS to exploit as well just in a different way so that in itself is not necessarily a problem and can work (equally you can create an overload in the box this way potentially as well.  So as a combo SS-AF isn't necessarily a dead loss, it can definitely work as long as there is some movement and variety in your tactic elsewhere..  Your problem is that there is very little movement anywhere else either (partly due to all 3 front players being on the same duty and all the players behind them on the same support duty as well and then all those behind them on defend duties, effectively what I am saying is you need some variety between the players in a specific strata to create some movement/variety), in other words no movement between the lines anywhere so no one creating space or dropping into space etc.  As I mentioned in my first post I have always struggled with box midfields so I am probably not the best person to try to fix the issue but I'd look at it like this, ask yourself these 4 questions:

1. How am I creating space and who is going to use it?  You have the AF pinning the defence back/trying to run in behind it, but not much else, see below for some suggestions)
2. Who do I want to score?  Guessing AF/SS mainly
3. Who is going to create the goals and how?  Guessing through balls from playmakers/crosses from WB
4. How do I ensure I have some variety?  At the moment there isn't much as mentioned so below I suggest a couple of things to try.

Now obviously this is complicated by the fact you want a replication so can't deviate too much, but just to make some suggestions on things you could try.  These suggestions are really just a way to exaggerate the movement patterns you said you were trying to get in your reply.

Drop the AP and DLP down 1 duty each, i.e. make the DLP DLP-d and the AP AP-s (maybe add run with ball often to keep that dribbling you wanted) and then make the right wing back WB-a.  This will create some movement between the lines and also give you variety with your right side different to your left side.  You right centre will also attract the ball (due to the playmaker roles) and so you have the opportunity to build up down the right and then either your play makers ping a through ball to your AF or SS for them to score or to the overlapping WB to cross for said AF/SS.

It wouldn't be a massive deviation from your current setup but it would create a bit more variety and maybe just maybe solve you static attack issues.

If this doesn't work and it by no means certainly will (as mentioned bad at box midfields) you could try other small changes such as adding roaming to the AP or get further forward to the BWM (attempt to overload the box on the left/have a late arriving goal threat that gives it a bit more welly).  Beyond things like this you would be getting too far from your original replication which just may not be possible in the FM21 match engine, but someone else may have a solution.

To address your last point, nothing wrong with dribbling as a way of creating space and/or movement, but if it is the only way a tactic does it then that makes it easier to defend against as there is not any variety.  Also tactics that create space with movement between the lines actually often give better opportunities for dribbling as it is much harder to dribble if you are pressed up against your marker which will more often happen with a player on an attack duty.  Whereas a support duty might drop deep to receive the ball and then turn and run at the opposition which in itself can create more mayhem./

Anyway I hope this helps or at least helps you come up with better ideas to solve the problem.

 

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by WhyMe

[robot_9x3]

Hello again,
The newest update for Version 2 (haven’t tried suggestions by @WhyMe for now).
As I said in a comment before I have watched the Roma-Inter game, took some notes and reworked some parts while still trying to adhere to the main idea outlined by the statistics and my posts above.

Again let’s recap at the half way line of the Season(so after our 19th SerieA Game), again it isn’t going to great, we had a horrible start again.

Image: current league standings.

6 wins - 8 draws - 5 losses- 16 Goals Fr - 15 Goals gainst. 5-8Points to Europe, 13Points away from first.

Image: Schedule

Look at Statistics

Image: Statistics overview

Image: Analyst report

Ignoring Points 2 and 3, Point 1 Is exactly a thing we are after for the replication, we are threatening when dribbling and running with the ball.

Defense

Something nice for me, Conceded/Game took up so we conceded a lot less in the latter half of the half season,
after 10 games (sadly no screenshot, you have to believe me on this one) we conceded more than the average, while the XG Against/Game was well above average (not as high as now).
Which indicated our bad start was down to bad luck at least defensive wise.

Offense

Goals/Game we are way below average, xG/Game is a little below average while it hovered around average for the longest time it dropped recently.

Shots/Game is above average so we get into shooting positions frequently.

Shot% is below average so whoever takes our shots has to drink some aim-potion or something…

So even though you could assume we miss movement in turn being too static not creating, we are creating a lot but not unfathomably good chances and if we have chances we are below average at getting them on target.

So offensively we could do with better xG creation but otherwise us misfiring is more down to player form rather than a tactical issue( I am trying to tell myself ).

Pass% Tck% slightly above average so okayish.

Assist For

Image: Assists for

We are doing a bit of everything so we are not one dimensional.
I am a little bit proud that we seem to be scoring from set pieces, so creation from setpieces seems to be okay, the statistics tell me in terms of corners we are 7th in scroed from corners so that could be better, but in terms of scored from indirect freekicks we are second.
So I will need to take a look into creating more from set pieces as well, Hints and Tips welcome.

Assist Against

Image: Assists against

A lot of through balls, which sucks with 3 at the back, I thought they were less of an issue.

My current idea is to have the CD-D shift to CD-Cover. But I don’t know if that would mess with the offside trap we employ. The throughballs are probably a result of the offside trap as well.
Any Input on that would a CD-Cover mess up the offside trap?

New Tactic overview and explanation

Image: New toles in the 5-2-2-1

Changes Advanced Forward switched to Poacher to further accentuate the “furthest forward on the shoulder of the last defender to run onto those early crosses from the side” approach I am going for.
Bad about this he is way less involved in anything, unless player traits pull him deep, I have Dzeko who has traits like (“Plays with back to goal” and “comes deep to collect the ball”). I think that hinders my tactic but also adds something special to it.

GoalKeeper switched to SweeperKeeper on Defend, when Roma builds up from the back Patricio is a viable passing option.
It seems like in the Match engine the SK is more viable than the Gk that’s all my reasoning here, just to have the goalkeeper be a viable out of pressure pass option( the 11th on field player keepers have to be in todays game.)

In Possession

Image: In Possesion Instruction

I reworked our crossing approach.

I finally decided to tick “Hit Early crosses” to have everyone on the same page for this approach, it’s not just the Wingbacks also the AMs if they drift wide seem to cross quite some bit.

Image: reality check, Passing type statistics by FBRef sorted by crossing attempts (last  column)

Out of the Top10 Roma crossers 7to8 (depending on your view of Shaarawy) only 2 or 3 are not mainly AMs or Wingbacks.

 

By watching games, I have noticed Roma tries to bring the crosses more at "foot level" rather than at "head level", so to heighten the percentage of low driven crosses played, I picked Low Crosses.

Image: calculated cross attempts (crosses completed/crosses%)

As i said, we are now more cross heavy than I would like, but with just 60 crosses to many I am not to concerned that Hit Early Crosses might shift our attacking approach away from were we want to be at.

In Transition

Image: In Transition Instruction

No changes here

Out of Possession

Image: Out of Possession instructions

Here I moved the Defensive Line up to get the Wingbacks more involved in the Midfieldpressing, also keeping the opposition further away from our goal and having more space to recover a failed Offside trap.

I removed Tighter Marking, the first Idea “was stay closer = get more tackles” with Get Stuck In we get the tackles, if I am not mistaken we are third highest this time around in Tackles attempted!

Image: tackling stats FM-SerieA

Also without Tight marking it’s not as easy for a fast forward to torch our CBs, even though through balls still tend to kill us...

Lastly I added Prevent Short GK Distribution, something I picked up from Roma-Inter, and I am sure it was implemented in other games as well, I just really picked it up when taking notes of the Roma Inter game.
The Striker and at least one if not both AMs closed down the short options(e.g. Centerbacks), which happens in FM with this option ticked (obviously sorry for that explanation.)
That forces the opposition long and like most Mourinho sides he has a team of physically imposing athletes who are capable to win in the air. Something we also want.

Player Instructions

I went with one thing I thought about after the comments made by @WhyMe, “have some asymmetry” and someone more aggressively breaking the lines.
Again supported by the Roma-Inter game, Karsdorp the Right Wingback was mostly way higher than Zalewski the Left-Wingback.
While I would say when replicating the Roma side from that game(not what I am after) R-WB is on Attack and L-WB is on defend.
For most games I have seen both are “Support/Automatic” for me, but Karsdorp is the more attacking one I will back this up with his high Touches in the Attacking third:

Image: FBREF statistics Touches sorted by attacking third

Above him of the defenders only Maitland Niles, who also plays Right Wingback most of the time, but he only started 5 games. I went for the per 90s stats as Karsdorp is a regular having started 31 of 34 games so the complete stats would give him an huge edge because he just hast the game time.

So how do I try to emulate that and create some asymmetry?
I just told him to get further forward.
So far that’s my only player instruction.

To fix "wrong" behaviors now, I will most likely look more into adding Player Instructions rather than changing roles and duties, as I am now quite content how the game looks(not the Goals conceded with no need), but the main approach to the game the passes it looks a lot closer than my first try, still not perfect, probably impossible just by the game football is.

Opposition instructions

Image: Opposition Instruction not depending on opposition.

To help protect the Wings, I added press more on all opposition wide players. That gets my central players (mainly the AMs) to help out wide more readily.

The next update will probably include the last Role and Duty change so moving the CD-D to CD-C if that looks like what I am after for the replication and it helps us defending throughball a little bit better, if it hinders the Offside trap more the next update will probably be short or some days away.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by robot_9x3
added crosses statistic