4-2-3-1/4-3-3 - Obvious issues or paranoid?

[Jones1871]

After not playing the game for a couple years i've come back and struggled to get a tactical style i'm happy with as well as successful. Been reading the forum and watching youtube videos that have helped to a degree but always struggle when trying to take it a step further and mould it into a style i'm happy with. 

I split between a 4-2-3-1 and a 4-3-3 depending on the opposition, occasion or home/away. 

I've had some success with both tactics but recently i've been struggling (A few losses on the bounce without scoring) against teams i should be beating on paper. 

I'm just wondering if i could get a neutral/more experienced view on them because when a tactic starts going wrong i get paranoid and change everything instead of waiting to ride the storm so to speak.

Any help would be grateful/appreciated and if there are any guides/videos you'd recommend. 

 Thanks a lot.

 

 

[Johnny Ace]

Both look pretty good

The 4-2-3-1

• Maybe switch the BBM to a CM(S), I find them a tad more secure in a 4-2-3-1
• Two BPDs aren't needed, one will do, on the opposite side to your most offensive fullback
• Not sure you need Run at Défense & a Higher Tempo, it might rush things and create low quality chances, plus they go against your other on the ball instructions 
• Are you good enough to Counter Press?

 

The 4-3-3 DM

• Pretty much the same as above 
• would probably change around the duties on the wide attackers, so IF(S) W(A) then switch the midfield duties around, so the CM(A) on the left CM(S) on the right 

[Jack Sarahs]

Some great advice from Johnny Ace there,

 

In addition to that I would also think about player profiles. I'm unsure what Thiago Almada is looking like in your save but often in mine he isn't a prototype winger with his attributes and his Player traits. in your 4-2-3-1 you have a BBM-S to move and support him on that side, but I'm guessing if you watch some of your attacks build up in full match there will be lots of times he gets on the ball and if that were a genuine top level winger you might create far more deadly attacks on that side then you do currently.

Keep up the good work though and you've done the right thing coming here there's lots of great and helpful people on the forums.

[Jones1871]

8 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

Both look pretty good

The 4-2-3-1

• Maybe switch the BBM to a CM(S), I find them a tad more secure in a 4-2-3-1
• Two BPDs aren't needed, one will do, on the opposite side to your most offensive fullback
• Not sure you need Run at Défense & a Higher Tempo, it might rush things and create low quality chances, plus they go against your other on the ball instructions 
• Are you good enough to Counter Press?

 

The 4-3-3 DM

• Pretty much the same as above 
• would probably change around the duties on the wide attackers, so IF(S) W(A) then switch the midfield duties around, so the CM(A) on the left CM(S) on the right 

 

6 hours ago, Jack Sarahs said:

Some great advice from Johnny Ace there,

 

In addition to that I would also think about player profiles. I'm unsure what Thiago Almada is looking like in your save but often in mine he isn't a prototype winger with his attributes and his Player traits. in your 4-2-3-1 you have a BBM-S to move and support him on that side, but I'm guessing if you watch some of your attacks build up in full match there will be lots of times he gets on the ball and if that were a genuine top level winger you might create far more deadly attacks on that side then you do currently.

Keep up the good work though and you've done the right thing coming here there's lots of great and helpful people on the forums.

 

Thanks for the advice guys. I've done the bits you suggested and they make sense. In terms of good enough to counter press i'm not quite sure yet. I got promoted and have finished 6th and 8th in the prem but have taken it off and will add it when i feel is suitable.

Since tweaking it results have been poor to be honest but willing to take it into pre season and give it ago. A lot of the time the long ball over the top takes my defence out of the game but feel dropping back gives the opposition midfield more time to pick the through ball. Same with down the wings, if i force outwide they cross the ball for fun eventually ending in a simple tap in/header but if i force the opposition inside that also doesn't help. Wondering if you had any suggestions?

Theses are the poor results and the player personal i'll be taking into pre season (In need of a LW) feel it is a lot more balanced now.

Thanks

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Jones1871

[Johnny Ace]

23 minutes ago, Jones1871 said:

Since tweaking it results have been poor to be honest

You've had a tough run there to be fair 

23 minutes ago, Jones1871 said:

Wondering if you had any suggestions?

I just leave defensive width as default myself, like you, if I went wide they'd play through and if I went narrow we'd get bombarded by crosses 

[Jack Sarahs]

45 minutes ago, Jones1871 said:

 

 

Thanks for the advice guys. I've done the bits you suggested and they make sense. In terms of good enough to counter press i'm not quite sure yet. I got promoted and have finished 6th and 8th in the prem but have taken it off and will add it when i feel is suitable.

Since tweaking it results have been poor to be honest but willing to take it into pre season and give it ago. A lot of the time the long ball over the top takes my defence out of the game but feel dropping back gives the opposition midfield more time to pick the through ball. Same with down the wings, if i force outwide they cross the ball for fun eventually ending in a simple tap in/header but if i force the opposition inside that also doesn't help. Wondering if you had any suggestions?

Theses are the poor results and the player personal i'll be taking into pre season (In need of a LW) feel it is a lot more balanced now.

Thanks

 

Keep working at it I don't think you're a million miles off at all so don't worry about that.

Everyone plays the game differently and has different preferences. There's rarely a correct answer or a wrong one many different things can effect tactics. Having a terrible run of fixtures at the start of the season can often put people off and search for answers that they might not have asked if they would have seen some more positive results in the early parts of the season.

I'll give you an example of my personal preference. Personally I really like my 10 to be on an attack duty with a striker on an attack duty in the current version of the game, so if I were to give you some suggestions I would mold your tactic into my preference but you may have your own vision of what you want. Also on your 4-2-3-1 I would personally go with WB-A as the left back and WB-S on the right. Currently on your left side you don't have any attack duties which you can absolutely make work but generally I'd like at least one especially if I have a pivot that side. 

But if I were you first off I'd try to figure out exactly what you want from the team and what vision ( philosophy ) you have for your team then work towards that. From your comments you seem to have done decently well and have been happy enough with how it's playing but I would try to be more specific about how you want to create chances and how you want to create goals.

Solving the long ball issue can be done by your back line settings, formation or how you get pressure on the ball. If you're going to play 4-2-3-1 with no DM, I would say it's essential you get pressure on the ball quickly and apply a higher line to go along with this which you've got a variation of already.

I would untick tight marking  also.

 

Now this doesn't mean you have to do all of these to be successful, or that you should even just copy all of my suggestions I'm just letting you know what I would do and I hope some of this at least helps you! 

Keep us updated with how you're getting on!

 

[Draakon]

I agree, your tactics are pretty good, at least on paper.

Only one suggestion - AFa with a good pace, anticipation and off the ball movement can punish opposition with higher defensive line, if there's enough space and good direct ball from midfield behind the line, but 'shorter passing' prevents midfielders to play this option. You might try to use mixed passing from time to time, at least when you see opponents DL being too high. You have 'pass into space' activated anyway. My experience with this comes from FM20, but might be worht a try.