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Trying to replicate Ange Postecoglou's Celtic


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This will be short and sweet.

 

I've been trying to replicate Ange Postecoglou's Celtic for a while. Unfortunately, I haven't actually seen Celtic play for a couple of months. I had a rough idea from previous Ange sides (Brisbane, Melbourne & Australia) but the Celtic squad is a very different level to those. Add in the Scottish Premiership factor and I find it makes it a lot harder to tell if your tactic works. Luckily TIFO put up a video yesterday regarding Celtic under Ange:

 

As Ange clearly is influenced by Jose Mourinho I also took some inspiration from a @crusadertsar thread - 

So, to break it down - Ange plays with two inverted full backs, inside forwards and central midfielders who make runs into the box. What I ended up with was this:

image.png.7bba09e5235f74b5ca0c4221d83d848a.png

The base tactic was the gengenpress 4-3-3 which I added some instructions to. As Ange gets his inside forward to stay wide (to allow the full backs to come inside) I added 'Stay Wider' to both. They are the only player instructions.

 

Results have been good but the sample size is small:

image.png.5cafeb337d49910644261472aa66d1b5.png

I holidayed the Liverpool game. The Aberdeen game I was 0-3 down before a 7 goal comeback. They got all goals on the counter. After two I added 'Use Offside Trap' and that pretty much blunted the attacks over the top since then. While the sample size is small I think the concentration of matches is important to note for such a high tempo playing style.

 

A few screenies of what is happening:

image.png.71786c0ae055291adc17838e97c77b97.png

In attack the movement has allowed the striker to become one-on-one with the defender. The RB has come inside while the mezzala has moved towards the sideline to play the pass. Both IF's are in dangerous positions.

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In buildup here. The RB has received the ball from Rogic. St Johnstone are compressing the field but defending high. Probably the only thing to note here is the different positions of the two IWB's and how both Rogic and Kyogo have compensated for Juranovic's movement.

 

image.thumb.png.bc7be0850a4f9e9848cac5dea0955f36.png

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All I wanted to point out here is the movement of players depending on their stronger foot. O'Riley is left footed while Reo is right footed. Compare their positioning in the two screenshots. They will stay more central if their stronger foot is inside while move wider if the opposite is true. I prefer their stronger foot inside but it is worth noting the movement wider as a potential tool to use.

 

As I said - short and sweet. Is this a fair representation? Probably not. Is there other ways to do it? Probably. The big test for me will be Europe and honestly, I think this will go the same way Ange did this year - not well.  Time will tell.

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8 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

Look forward to seeing if you continue with this, your tactic looks great. Not sure on the dual Mezzalas but it's very interesting :thup:

I wasn’t sure but wanted players who could move wide and play through balls

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So I've hit my first European match since locking into the below tactic. 

image.png.446a096f489f39e197300e4a6120f3f6.png

Not a lot has changed. CM-Su is told to stay wider and roam to still allow the LB to come inside a bit easier. I've only had Force Opposition Outside on for one match after it was noted in my data centre. I've had a good pre-season (assistant took over for friendlies) and am clearly dominating the league up until this point.

image.png.3babcdc4fece57e4a8a45431d2eee825.png

So far a few things I've noticed:

  • Not a lot of goals come from the striker. A lot come from the left wing
  • If I am struggling asking the team to be more disciplined with their passing seems to open teams up a bit more. It also allows us to be a bit smarter against better teams
  • Prevent Short GK Distribution is next to useless vs three at the back

My aim for the Champions League will be negate Red Bull Leipzig, beat Marseille and probably lose to Manchester City.

First match against Red Bull. I've asked to be more disciplined and turned off prevent GK distribution:

image.thumb.png.8bbfeb2a70a51a72cb677b909cc9d2a5.png

5th minute goal. Rogic plays a through ball to Daizen who puts it away after being one-on-one. This is the sort of assist I want to see from either my MC's or full backs. Even better is that the striker scored.

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Long shot from Soteldo (playing as a striker). Unlike others I'm not too concerned about long shots. I see them as a low chance shot so am willing to concede them. This is the only option Soteldo had as if he took another touch Mepham would have closed down the shot anyway.

 

XG is currently 0.24 vs 0.06 (2 shots v 1).

 

19th minute there was some corner action by Red Bull. They got a few shots away. XG is now 0.24 vs 0.21 (2 shots v 3)

 

image.png.bae080564d9129f0361723b3b41444a1.png

38th minute Turnbull and Diaz open up Kyogo for a shot that he shanks. Really annoyed he missed to be honest.

 

XG 0.54 v 0.21 (4 shots v 2)

 

Half time I subbed off Fabricio Díaz for McGregor. I also turned off Be More Disciplined. XG 0.63 v 0.21 (5 shots v 2)

 

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Omar Richards plays a through ball to Calvin Ramsay. Unfortunately Ramsay doesn't take the shot and passes. Still, it's the sort of pass from the LB I want to be seeing. Also, now you can see how Red Bull is starting to be opened up with my attacks.

 

55th minute I subbed off both Yusef Demir (Liel Abada) and Kyogo (Daizen moved to LW, Agustín Álvarez Martínez comes on as striker). I'm also starting to think about when to play a bit more conservative. 

 

image.png.60ce7294eaea52c3428cd0e4fbb9a848.png

Red Bull score in the 60th minute. Here my defence is just too compact and Nkuku uses the available space to score. From this, McGregor being in no mans land (I'd like him either closer to Olmo or closer to the man behind) has drawn both Mepham and Turnbull out of position.

 

XG now 1.49 v 0.50 (9 shots v 4)

 

image.png.d4e7ae201e930d021b390ca27cfdc270.png

Immediate reply. Ramsay plays a pass to Rogic who turns and shoots. Low chance shot but worth it. Be More Disciplined turned back on.

 

XG now 1.55 v 0.50 (10 shots v 4)

67th minute I ask to Tackle Harder (it was a suggestion by the assistant prior to the match that I noted).

74th minute Turnbull misses a penalty.

81st minute I ask to Waste Time Frequently and GK to Slow Pace Down. Work Ball Into Box also turned off.

Not much else happened and I ran the game out 2-1 winners.

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So, XG ended up as 0.16 per shot vs 0.105 so I'm happy per shot I was better. Even though I had 56.25% vs 67% shots on target it isn't a bad stat. I'm not sure what they changed in the second half but they had no long shots vs my five in the second half alone. That does concern me. Mine can be answered with fatigue and better RBL defending but theirs I just don't know.

Still, not a bad start in Europe. I've uploaded the pkm if anyone is interested.

Celtic v RB Leipzig for forum.pkm

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Vs Manchester City:

 

image.png.170c2a4106f7c2c254dcb38df8a6569d.png

 

Dropped defensive line, added Be More Disciplined. I dropped defensive line due to the goal in the previous European match and also a goal conceded in the previous league match. 

 

Early on not a lot happened.  Manchester peppered my goals but I defended strongly. In the 21st minute I turned on Get Stuck In. I need to tackle a bit earlier rather than corralling. In the 33rd minute I drop tempo to slightly higher. I think my gung-ho approach may be playing into City's hands a bit. I also removed Work Ball Into Box as I need to take a few more low chance shots as I'm not going to get too many opportunities. Later on I may turn on Shoot On Sight.

 

Half time and it is 0-0:

image.png.44a64d41c71665e555b62babfcedb59e.png

 

Manchester City are a far better side than me. I am reluctant to drop the defensive line any further as I am concerned they will overwhelm me.

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I do have some low ranking players in the front three and by looking at the heat map I can see why - the striker and two wingers are disconnected. I am going to move the striker onto F9 and the RW onto IW-At. Mez-At will drop to Mez-Su Calvin Ramsay is also on a yellow so I will sub him soon. Once Anthony Ralston comes on I will make the RB into a IWB-De as I am concerned about Sterling becoming more dangerous on my right.

Ramsay subbed of in the 50th minute. Also turned on Shoot on Sight.

 

image.thumb.png.7a68a10ed539dea0243f4f4ef05940c9.png

 

54th minute and City score. Mbappe plays a through ball to Bernardo Silva who is one-on-one with Green. Now they have scored I am going to switch back to my base tactic as I still haven't got a shot away and I want to see how it plays against a far superior side.

 

image.png.6e61fc5ae10677b1423a60b29f7f467a.png

 

Match finishes at 2-0. I don't think there is too much more I could have done. They are just too good for my side.

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  • 2 weeks later...
1 hour ago, seanydude said:

Striker should probably be a pressing forward based on how we defend from the front.

That was my initial thought too but I didn’t like the buildup in attack with the PF. DLF with prevent short distribution does the job. I could have added some PI’s but felt I had what I needed in both defence and attack. 
 

Also, looking at other Postecoglou sides none had what I would call a pressing forward. A lot had big bodies up forward, particularly when there wasn’t a strong scoring forward to allow the wingers to score a lot (Kosta Barbouras and Marco Rojas benefitted from this type of setup). 

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I cant comment on his previous teams but if you want to fully replicate his Celtic side, it doesn’t matter who’s up front, they all press incredibly aggressive from the front. Even Giakoumakis who is one of those aforementioned big strikers doesn’t stop chasing down loose balls (his goal on Saturday a perfect example)

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40 minutes ago, seanydude said:

I cant comment on his previous teams but if you want to fully replicate his Celtic side, it doesn’t matter who’s up front, they all press incredibly aggressive from the front. Even Giakoumakis who is one of those aforementioned big strikers doesn’t stop chasing down loose balls (his goal on Saturday a perfect example)

If it was all about one player then I'd tend to agree but to get it to all work as a team I needed the DLF. The PF was too high and ended up out of the play. When I added the DLF I also needed to add the prevent short distribution to get the pressing like you mentioned. Someone smarter than me may be able to get it all to click with a PF but I certainly couldn't. It's the same reason why I didn't add press more instructions to individual players. I think on the surface people would say it has to be there but the out of possession instructions get the players to press hard anyway. They don't need the extra PI's to d the job.

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4 hours ago, nick1408 said:

If it was all about one player then I'd tend to agree but to get it to all work as a team I needed the DLF. The PF was too high and ended up out of the play. When I added the DLF I also needed to add the prevent short distribution to get the pressing like you mentioned. Someone smarter than me may be able to get it all to click with a PF but I certainly couldn't. It's the same reason why I didn't add press more instructions to individual players. I think on the surface people would say it has to be there but the out of possession instructions get the players to press hard anyway. They don't need the extra PI's to d the job.

I seem to have it working okay with the PF, Kyogo bagged 30 goals, with Giakoumakis and Abada popping up with 20 each in my first season. I’m really excited for the fullbacks training to finally pay off and for their ratings to go up as IWB, realistically they’re all fairly well suited to it. I’m also using LW as an inverted winger rather than inside forward, i think Jota plays slightly deeper than Abada and doesn’t always look to score, I like him playing more of a creative role basically overflowing the midfield whilst Abada and Kyogo get the majority of the chances. I’ve dabbled with one of the CM’s as a cam but it dragged the team out of shape a little bit. Ironically I had a crap start before going on to win league, ECL and Scottish cup first season just like how Ange’s start was *****. Changing the DM into an anchor helped a bit for the tough away games and with McGregor ability on the ball, he still pulled the strings whilst sitting deeper. I’m also playing the IWB’s on support rather than attack, I don’t want them in the opposition box, they tend to play as defacto CM’s irl, one of them heads into the centre with McGregor allowing the CMs to go forward.

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Love this! Feel free to remove my comment, but I've also attempted to "replicate" Ange-ball. It was only meant to be a season-long test but fell in love so now, almost in my 3rd season :lol: so ignore the squad, some unfamiliar faces.

So, I've gone with two wingers as well as IWBs. Mainly because of movement. Wingers stay wide to stretch the pitch, even in possession and this allows for movement from the 8s or IWBs to make runs in the inside channel. Interestingly, depending whos on the flanks they don't always act like traditional wingers. Example, Abada likes to cut inside so you get nice unpredictability. He either goes wide like a winger or inside like a IW. It also means I don't have to "force" the underlap instruction as it happens naturally but I do also feel Ange has flexibility in his attacks which is why I went for minimum instructions

For CL games, it's pretty much the same but I went with regroup instead to try and defend in a 451 more often and dropped the defensive lines.

Giorgos Giakoumakis is broken on FM lol he scored 33 in 23 league games 1st season. 24 in 22 so far 2nd season

image.thumb.png.e91a70de99db6d823260ec767b5b1f59.png

First season we went unbeaten - still have 3 games to play in the 2nd season but we've lost two already.

image.thumb.png.a18f96bca934a81a6eb90848425ad1b4.pngimage.thumb.png.05c0d92872d2f888ff5e2b2d00199dbf.png

we also knocked out Barca, beating them both home and away in the CL in the 1st season. 2nd season, they gave me PSG in the first knockout round, same team that knocked us out season before. 

image.thumb.png.35a5a447c5492bc30dfdb188c19f531d.png

More about the tactic...I said earlier about Wingers not always sticking to "stay wider". They do also have the desire to drive towards goal as seen in the image after Giakoumakis knocks the ball to the winger. He decides to drive inside 

image.thumb.png.3857a8892a28a832afa1fa82e33ac399.png

 

This image is what happens with the winger staying wide. Because of this, the full back also stays wide opening the channel for the "8" (Neto)  to take advantage of 

image.thumb.png.f9e839dc77951b94c050f25bf14f95ca.png

 

I can post more but don't want to spam your thread haha apologies if I already have but I liked it so thought I'd jump in lol

 

Edited by RDF Tactics
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On 12/04/2022 at 17:14, RDF Tactics said:

Love this! Feel free to remove my comment, but I've also attempted to "replicate" Ange-ball. It was only meant to be a season-long test but fell in love so now, almost in my 3rd season :lol: so ignore the squad, some unfamiliar faces.

So, I've gone with two wingers as well as IWBs. Mainly because of movement. Wingers stay wide to stretch the pitch, even in possession and this allows for movement from the 8s or IWBs to make runs in the inside channel. Interestingly, depending whos on the flanks they don't always act like traditional wingers. Example, Abada likes to cut inside so you get nice unpredictability. He either goes wide like a winger or inside like a IW. It also means I don't have to "force" the underlap instruction as it happens naturally but I do also feel Ange has flexibility in his attacks which is why I went for minimum instructions

For CL games, it's pretty much the same but I went with regroup instead to try and defend in a 451 more often and dropped the defensive lines.

Giorgos Giakoumakis is broken on FM lol he scored 33 in 23 league games 1st season. 24 in 22 so far 2nd season

image.thumb.png.e91a70de99db6d823260ec767b5b1f59.png

First season we went unbeaten - still have 3 games to play in the 2nd season but we've lost two already.

image.thumb.png.a18f96bca934a81a6eb90848425ad1b4.pngimage.thumb.png.05c0d92872d2f888ff5e2b2d00199dbf.png

we also knocked out Barca, beating them both home and away in the CL in the 1st season. 2nd season, they gave me PSG in the first knockout round, same team that knocked us out season before. 

image.thumb.png.35a5a447c5492bc30dfdb188c19f531d.png

More about the tactic...I said earlier about Wingers not always sticking to "stay wider". They do also have the desire to drive towards goal as seen in the image after Giakoumakis knocks the ball to the winger. He decides to drive inside 

image.thumb.png.3857a8892a28a832afa1fa82e33ac399.png

 

This image is what happens with the winger staying wide. Because of this, the full back also stays wide opening the channel for the "8" (Neto)  to take advantage of 

image.thumb.png.f9e839dc77951b94c050f25bf14f95ca.png

 

I can post more but don't want to spam your thread haha apologies if I already have but I liked it so thought I'd jump in lol

 

This looks amazing! What sort of possession numbers were you getting. What does your pass map look like?

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