How to make your wingers your main goalscorer in a possession tactic

[CKBrahMa]

Hi everyone !

 

Following what someone suggests me to do, I’m creating a subject on this topic : how to make your wingers your main goalscorer in a high pressing possession tactic ?

See my tactic here : 

(There is a TL;DR at the end)

I’m doing good with my tactic (finish first of my UCL group stage, 0 goal concedeed, won all 6 games) and also fine in BPL (2 draws, one lost to City 2-1 on an away game). I’m one of the best attack and the best defense of the PL. 

My team is considered threatning for most teams, as I finished 2nd 2 years in a row, winning FA Cup against Liverpool and 2 UCL in a row.

However, I had some issues :

1) last season, Ødegaard was the Mezz-A with Saka on the right wing as a W-s. It was okay, but Ødegaard was in scoring position too many times, without having the attributes to be a good scorer ;

2) My strickers on DLF-s (Zapata and M. Dembele as a sub) were fantastic as goalscorer (they’re my two best ones). However, I feel they failed to create enough space for my AML ;

3) My AML were RMD, and they got poor performances, both on goals and assists.

 

I tried to solve those problems :

1) I bought B. Silva as a Mezz-A and put Ødegaard on the AMR position as a AP-s (Saka is trained to be a Mezz-A, getting some decent results) ;

2) My strickers are now PF-s : they still drag CD but shows more pressure while being less of a playmaker. Also, I ask my team to play on flanks to free up some Space in the central area (which seems to work) ;

3) I changed my RMD to an IF-a. I want them to work less for the team and being more selfish/try to score goals.

Yet having some good results, I fail to create what I want : have both my Mezz and IF as goal threat. It appeared my ST(c) still are, while i’m legit asking them not to.

I’m posting because i’m feeling lost. I fail to make my wingers goalscorer (in a Salah/Mbappé way. Not in the style, but in stats).

I have A. Isak and F. Balogun as AML in IF-A. I feel they have trouble to score in that position. Is there something i'm missing out ? If I want them to be like IRL, should I play them as stickers ?

Here is what I can identify as possible problems :

- my tactic/philosophy. I’m trying to replicate Pep’s city (yes, I know, another one). The idea is to suffocate the ennemy in his own half and play patiently to score a goal when near the box. That’s Why you can have counter intuitive instructions (like Counter and Work Ball in the Box). Maybe having such a pressure on oppenent half delete the spaces Available for my wingers (especialy for the IF-A). If so, how can I make my AML my goalscorer in that philosophy ?

- the ME ? Not blaming the game here (more my understanding of it and how I translate my philosophy to the game). Maybe the IF-a doesn’t work well ? I remember a Bustthenet’s video saying that IW « worked better » than IF. If so, I’m afraid of using them as IW they have both poor crossing and long shots (near 9-11) ;

- player traits ? When looking at a game, it seems they’re struggling to shot « the way they should » (inside of foot, aiming most of the time the far post). They often use their wrong foot (for example, left one for Isak and Balogun ; right one for Silva and Saka) in a difficult angle (most of the Time, near post). I can see this problem with both my Mezz-A and IF-A. The only one i saw doing this « Henry’s style of shooting » is Ødegaard, left foot inside and looking for the far post. While he is an AP-s on AMR

TL;DR

I win with my tactic but not with the kind of movement I want. I want my wingers to be the goal scorers, not my ST (C). Using a high-pressing possession football, how can I turn my AML and my Mezz into a goal scoring machine ?

I’m listening every suggestion !

[dazza11]

Looks a pretty reasonable set up, although do the mez and Ap not end up occupying the same space a lot? MezA will drift high n wide, whilst your APs will sit neautral to narrow?

My only other observation ( and if you are finishing 2nd it’s clearly a good tactic so it’s going to be trial/error on minor tweaks) an IFA wants to attack the half spaces between the full back and centre back.. however you are playing extremely wide and much higher LOE… do those two instructions give the IFA enough space to operate? Especially with a slightly lower tempo. Have you tried standard tempo with Wide instructions and only higher LOE? Give the IFA more space to move into?

[CKBrahMa]

il y a 12 minutes, dazza11 a dit :

although do the mez and Ap not end up occupying the same space a lot? MezA will drift high n wide, whilst your APs will sit neautral to narrow?

They do and it bother me a bit (even if the AP plays way deeper than the Mezz, helping the build-up and freeing space on the other flank). It wasn’t my main issue so I don’t talk about it here. What would you suggest ? Changing the Mezz in AP-s (or a) and the AMR AP-s into a IW-a (or s if AP is on Attack duty) ?

 

il y a 17 minutes, dazza11 a dit :

an IFA wants to attack the half spaces between the full back and centre back.. however you are playing extremely wide and much higher LOE… do those two instructions give the IFA enough space to operate? Especially with a slightly lower tempo. Have you tried standard tempo with Wide instructions and only higher LOE? Give the IFA more space to move into?

You have a point on the LOE. However, I beg to differ for :

1) How the fact to be extremly wide affect the runs of an IF-a ? Actually, it would make them easier as there is more space between the FB and the CD ?

2) for the tempo, as I said, I want to quickly go into the oppenent’s half (explaining the « Counter ») then, have a slow build-up for occasions (explaining slow tempo, dribble less to make all the passes, the work ball into box). Speeding the tempo will make my philosophy Closer to Naglesman one (as his philosophy is to « speed up the game » every time)

[DarJ]

3 hours ago, CKBrahMa said:

How the fact to be extremly wide affect the runs of an IF-a ? Actually, it would make them easier as there is more space between the FB and the CD ?

While I don't totally disagree with this, you have to remember that what happens in a real football game and in FM are totally different. We know the IFs don't cut inside with the ball but they will make that movement off the ball so you need to fina a way to build play on the right nand side so the IF can have space on the left to run into when he's off the ball

[CKBrahMa]

Il y a 13 heures, DarJ a dit :

While I don't totally disagree with this, you have to remember that what happens in a real football game and in FM are totally different. We know the IFs don't cut inside with the ball but they will make that movement off the ball so you need to fina a way to build play on the right nand side so the IF can have space on the left to run into when he's off the ball

I struggle a lot with this. I love « real » football, analyzing real teams and so on. Sometimes, I fail to translate my IRL knowledge into the ME.

Most of the time, it is not that I don’t understand Why it doesn’t work, but more why it doesn’t.

Do you think IW would work better in the current ME ?

Edited February 22, 2022 by CKBrahMa

[DarJ]

12 hours ago, CKBrahMa said:

Do you think IW would work better in the current ME ?

I haven’t played FM22 a lot yet and when I’ve played I didn’t play with IF or IW but I can’t tell. 
From watching bustthenet videos the IF should still be able to get you a lot of goals. If you look at the Liverpool’s replication he did Salah scored a lot as an IF maybe watch that video and take inspiration from that 

[CKBrahMa]

il y a 9 minutes, DarJ a dit :

I haven’t played FM22 a lot yet and when I’ve played I didn’t play with IF or IW but I can’t tell. 
From watching bustthenet videos the IF should still be able to get you a lot of goals. If you look at the Liverpool’s replication he did Salah scored a lot as an IF maybe watch that video and take inspiration from that 

I thought he played him as an IW, maybe i looked the wrong video.

i’m gonna take a look ! Thanks

[CKBrahMa]

Il y a 7 heures, DarJ a dit :

I haven’t played FM22 a lot yet and when I’ve played I didn’t play with IF or IW but I can’t tell. 
From watching bustthenet videos the IF should still be able to get you a lot of goals. If you look at the Liverpool’s replication he did Salah scored a lot as an IF maybe watch that video and take inspiration from that 

So I took a look and he’s using Salah as a IF-a. With a much Higher LOE, no PI.

I think the problem here is that I’m using a role that doesn’t fit my tactic. And, Guardiola never had those Mbappé/Salah role in his tactic. Even with Henry he did not ask that.

Looking at IRL ManCity stat, you never have A major Goalscorer. 
 

maybe should I use my AML as a Trequartista. If he doesn’t score, he will help to score

[Speedyol]

On 21/02/2022 at 14:19, CKBrahMa said:

how can I turn my AML and my Mezz into a goal scoring machine ?

Last season my Box-to Box mid fielder, Striker and Inverted winger was top 3 goal scorers with 17, 16 and 14 goals in 38 matches. Perhaps you could try and play your mezzala and AML similar to how I play my Box-to-Box and inverted winger?
 

I have selected "Shoot more often" on my inverted winger.(edit role/instructions) He was my striker two years ago and is very good at scoring goals, so I want him to shoot instead of passing the ball when he is able to do so. Idk how you do it in fm22, I play fm20.  He has about the same amount of goals as my striker, but I don't care who scores, as long as they all score now and then. Here is my tactic:

Almost everyone scored tho, I dont see it as a problem I like that everyone but the keeper gets a goal most seasons.

[Novem9]

I believe F9 is best chance creator for wingers. My W(a) with supporting of MEZ(s) and F9 score many goals in tiki-taka style. In other flank I use AP(a) with IF(s) and WB(a) , IF is scoring too. 

I guess PF(s) is more teamwork role like dlf, but you need another type of single striker in 433dm imo

[kingjericho]

Some pointers I would take into account for a tactic to maximize goals from wingers:

• focus play on one of the sides to have the players on the opposite side attacking the ball. E.g. Focus play down the right with a RB (WB), CM (AP), and ST (DLF) to have the IF/a on the left attack the space.
• Use supporting roles around the wingers (DLF, CF, F9, AP, MEZ) to draw the defenders and then use IF, RMD attacking full force.
• 'Pass into space'.
• Play narrow to make the wingers near the box instead of the throw-in line.

[CKBrahMa]

Il y a 14 heures, Speedyol a dit :

Last season my Box-to Box mid fielder, Striker and Inverted winger was top 3 goal scorers with 17, 16 and 14 goals in 38 matches

Even if it's a decent amount of goals, I'm looking to more efficiency. FYI, last season :

- Zapata finish with 16 goals in 20 games (huge injury),

- Isak finish with 7 goals and 3 assists for 27 games (such a disappointment) ;

- Odegaard finished with 4 goals and 18 assists in 31 games.

 

Il y a 14 heures, Novem9 a dit :

I believe F9 is best chance creator for wingers. My W(a) with supporting of MEZ(s) and F9 score many goals in tiki-taka style. In other flank I use AP(a) with IF(s) and WB(a) , IF is scoring too. 

Maybe should I try TF (s) as both Zapata and Dembele can play it well ?

 

Il y a 14 heures, kingjericho a dit :

• focus play on one of the sides to have the players on the opposite side attacking the ball. E.g. Focus play down the right with a RB (WB), CM (AP), and ST (DLF) to have the IF/a on the left attack the space.
• Use supporting roles around the wingers (DLF, CF, F9, AP, MEZ) to draw the defenders and then use IF, RMD attacking full force.
• 'Pass into space'.
• Play narrow to make the wingers near the box instead of the throw-in line.

1) Yes, maybe should I focus only on right side with my Odegaard on the flank

2) I'm already using AP, Mez, used to have a DLF : it wasn't enough in my tactic

3) Yeap

4) Not okay with that. I need to stretch the opposition, explaining the "wide". However, I can say narrow BUT asking some player to stay wide, i'm gonna try this

[Novem9]

2 минуты назад, CKBrahMa сказал:

Maybe should I try TF (s) as both Zapata and Dembele can play it well ?

 

I don't sure tbh. I have no experience with targetman. I read he is like tall dlf you know. Don't sure how it works in possession tactic. Why you avoid f9?

[CKBrahMa]

il y a 46 minutes, Novem9 a dit :

Why you avoid f9?

Because I don't have the man. If I put Odegaard/ESR in F9, I have a gap as both Zapata and Dembele can only play in ST(c) position