4-1-4-1 Tactical help

[boston14]

I'm definitely late, but I'm currently playing FM 20 touch and wanted to build my own tactic but need help with the player roles and some other tactical aspects . 

The starting formation is the simple 4-1-4-1 or a 4-3-3 with a DM, which transforms into a 2-3-4-1 in attack.

Right now I'm satisfied with my two Centre back roles which are both on CD (D), just two plain simple roles.

Right Flank:

On the right side of the field there is a Full Back (A) who pushes high up when in possession to act as a winger with added instructions of "stay wider" and "run wide with the ball". This right back position can also be switched to a WB (A) on preferences but all in all I feel like they both do almost the same job. 

As the Fullback pushes up he leaves space behind him for the opposition to exploit, as a result I placed a CM (D) with an added instruction of "stay wider" to protect the space which naturally positions him in the right half/wide space area. Finally as the Fullback pushes up the field and the CM covers him, the Inside Forward (S) cuts infield sitting just outside the box and the striker while creating a triangle between him the Fullback and the CM. I opted out from using an inverted winger (S) as I felt that he was too slow to cut inside and didn't make the movement I wanted to create passing triangles with the team. From the gameplay I felt that this was by far my most consistent side in terms of what I wanted to achieve from the tactic.

Left Flank: 

Ohhh and this is where it all goes downhill. On this side I wanted to create a partner ship between the Inverted wingback (S) and the Winger (S) plus the left sided midfielder. Essentially the movement I wanted to create was as the team pushes up field the Left back position in which I have an Inverted wingback (S) occupies the same space as the CM (D) on the right side meaning that he would be in the left half/wide space area this would prompt the left sided midfielder to push up and occupy the same positioning as the Inside Forward (S but on the left, leaving the Winger (S) to be the lone provider of width as the Full Back (A) on the right side. Also, the Winger (S) has an added instruction of "hold position". 

DM & Striker:

In the DM slot I was torn between a DLP (S) and a Regista (S). I figured since I already had a CM (D) and an Inverted wingback (S) providing the coverage for the players providing the width the player in the DM role had more freedom to roam around and be more of a creative player, in my mind he was the  Papu Gomez of the team who was able to shift up and down and flank to flank but in the DM slot. Which one would you suggest to employ?

The striker for me had to be just a pure goal scorer, of course he had to do enough pressing when we lost the ball and could participate in the build up play but that definitely wasn't his main goal as there were others on the team tasked with progressing the ball and creative chances. I felt that the AF (A) fit the description as he would try to make runs in behind for the left midfielder, the inside forward and the dm to find him. The AF would also move into channels creating overloads on the given flank, and finally he would also be doing enough pressing as I didn't want my forward line to be beat through the middle because the striker isn't pressing the centre backs.

The problem: 

The problem that I found was the fact that the Inverted wingback (S) and the left sided midfielder be it a B2B "get further forward" or a CM (S) with added instructions of "roam from position" and "get further forward" the two players would essentially occupy the same space with either the Inverted wingback pushing up too high or the B2B/CM(S) staying too deep. I also felt that the Winger (S) who had an added instruction of "hold position" was pushing up too high and constantly making runs into the box forcing the left side to collapse and narrow in which would then clutter all of the three left sided roles into the same space. 

Team instructions: 

Finally the instructions. I set up the team:

In possession:

Positive mentality, fairly wide, play out of defence, short passing and higher tempo.

In transition:

Counter & Counter, with short kick distribution

Defence:

Higher & Higher line of engagement and more urgent pressing.

Conclusion:

Thanks for taking the time to read my article and any suggestions that you might have will definitely be appreciated! I also attached an image on how I envision the team to look when in possession.

Edited February 3, 2022 by boston14

[Jack722]

2 hours ago, boston14 said:

I also felt that the Winger (S) who had an added instruction of "hold position" was pushing up too high and constantly making runs into the box forcing the left side to collapse and narrow in which would then clutter all of the three left sided roles into the same space. 

This is a problem. In FM you can't make a winger in the AM position hold their width in the final third, no matter what. The best you can hope for is to move him back to ML, use a support role and also ask him to hold position. However, this messes up your defensive shape. This also means you can never get the increasingly common position of the high and wide winger.

2 hours ago, boston14 said:

The problem that I found was the fact that the Inverted wingback (S) and the left sided midfielder be it a B2B "get further forward" or a CM (S) with added instructions of "roam from position" and "get further forward" the two players would essentially occupy the same space with either the Inverted wingback pushing up too high or the B2B/CM(S) staying too deep.

I've had this as well. I tried to create the same attacking shape from a 4141, using a MEZ(a) and IWB(s). The Mezzalas never got high up enough during buildup, and we became far too easy to press. The attacking shape was perfect, and we scored some nice goals, but the performances were always bad since we couldn't play out our own half well enough and therefore spent too long on the back foot.

[De Nile]

4141 

x2 IWB on defend

x2 Mezzala on support/attack

x1 DLP/Regista

x2 Inverted Winger attack

this is how i would do it just a suggestion on forming the 235 out of a 4141 also because every one from wide is cutting inside you can afford to play wider if you want. IWB on defend are really good for curtaining opposition counters you may also want to play something else than a double mezzala. 

[Sneaky Pete]

4 hours ago, De Nile said:

4141 

x2 IWB on defend

x2 Mezzala on support/attack

x1 DLP/Regista

x2 Inverted Winger attack

this is how i would do it just a suggestion on forming the 235 out of a 4141 also because every one from wide is cutting inside you can afford to play wider if you want. IWB on defend are really good for curtaining opposition counters you may also want to play something else than a double mezzala. 

This is an excellent suggestion, although I would maybe consider wingers instead of IWa to ensure width. If you go with WBIB and underlap left/right they won't really cross all that much, and if you play them with their strong foot goal-side they'll still cut inside, particularly with the right PPMs.

[sejo]

How to get a 3-2-5 with half spaces well occupied? This is how modern teams play

Edited February 6, 2022 by sejo
error typing

[Robson 07]

On 03/02/2022 at 04:59, boston14 said:

The problem: 

The problem that I found was the fact that the Inverted wingback (S) and the left sided midfielder be it a B2B "get further forward" or a CM (S) with added instructions of "roam from position" and "get further forward" the two players would essentially occupy the same space with either the Inverted wingback pushing up too high or the B2B/CM(S) staying too deep.

You could also try the following.

Leave the IWB as he is.  Move the B2B up to being a 2nd striker (FLC) and play him in a support role so that he is higher but coming off the front line to support build up play.