Tactics Rookie

[steve.battisti]

Tactics rookie looking for some minor help. I’m playing a lower league save with a downloaded tactic that uses a ball winning midfielder and an advance playmaker. It’s working well, but at my level there are no  players who are advanced playmakers. 
 

I’ve tried training players but it’s not working and they all get terrible ratings every game. Should I just play two BWMs?

[warlock]

9 minutes ago, steve.battisti said:

at my level there are no  players who are advanced playmakers

Often the problem with downloaded tactics. I certainly wouldn't play two BWMs, but if you have a CM with decent passing and vision (for your level) you could play him as a CM-support, with PIs to take more risks or more direct passing.

If you post a screengrab of the tactic you'll get better advice. That advice will change if you're playing a 442, 433 or 4231 (or something else).

[Atarin]

I play LLM and I never mess around with downloaded tactics. FIrst of all 99.9% have BPDs playing a Much high Defensive Line which is simply ridiculous when you've got CBs with Passing of 2, Anticipation 3, Concentration 2 and Pace of 3. They often have Counter-Press enabled as well which isn't a fantastic idea if your average Stamina is 6.

You need to focus on what you have available and keep it simple.

In terms of building an attacking pattern consider what your aim is. The ball has to get from the goalkeeper to the back of the opposition's net. There are only so many ways you can do that. You can move up the pitch by pass and move. Ball goes into feet, pass to some who's found space. Rinse and repeat. For this you need to have players with technique and intelligence. Option 2 is that you hit the ball into space for someone to run onto. In this scenario the ball does all the work moving up the pitch. For this scenario you'll need at least one midfielder with good passing and creativity and a runner who has anticipation, pace  and off the ball. The third option is get the ball to a dribbler. In this scenario moving the ball up the pitch rests on one player's ability to dribble effectively into dangerous areas. You'll need a ball carrier with dribbling, technique and either flair or pace. The final realistic option is the old target man option where you launch the ball at someone further up the field who can bring the ball under control, hold it up and then release runners off of him. For this you need a capable TM who has strength, bravery, first touch and also players with anticipation, concentration and off the ball to link up with him. One or two of these options are going to be realistic with the players that you have available at LLM level.

So, when working out how to build from the back just ask yourself the following questions.

(1) how accurate is my keeper with his hands and feet? If he can't kick or throw it very far and accurately then there's no point asking him to hit it long.

(2) Who in my back-line can I trust to receive the ball from the keeper under pressure? Does anyone have decent Composure, Strength and First Touch? If not then you're going to need a midfielder to drop deep to receive the ball.

(3) Once the ball is with a defender or deep midfielder where are they going to look to move the ball up the field? Can they go short or do they need to look for a runner or TM or is there a designated ball carrier you need the ball to get to?

(4) Once the ball is moving up the pitch what now? Who's it with and how can you make sure the conditions are favourable for them to do their thing? If its gone into someone's feet then you need players for them to pass to so you'll need players with intelligence and movement. If the ball has gone straight up to a target man then where is his support. Does it get to him quickly enough? If the ball has been hit into space is there the space to exploit? If there is who do they have around them to pass to, cross to and just for support should they hit a brick wall. If the ball is with a ball carrier then who are they going to be passing to, crossing to or who is supporting them should they run into trouble?

(5) When you get to the edge of the penalty area how are you getting into a good shooting angle? How are you ensuring your attack isn't crowded out? Are you going to drag the opposition out so there's space behind? Are you going to create a gap in the defence through a switch of play so you've dragged the defence one way only put someone through on the opposite side? A you going to try to outnumber and overload a particular area of the opposition defence?

I find breaking down my attacks into these phases helps me to see where things are breaking down. If you've already realised that playing the ball long to a target man is not an option for you then if you see your team doing that and failing you can go straight into your instructions tell them to cut that out. If your strategy is to hit the ball into space but the space isn't there then you need to consider doing something to create that space or find a plan B. If your dribbler is getting crowded out then you need to draw players away from that area, move your dribbler to a different area or move to plan B.

A lot of people struggle to develop tactics because they (a) don't really have a realistic and well thought out plan and (b) they don't have a strategy for watching their tactic play out. They just see it not working and have no idea why.

 

So, be realistic about your players. Give them the best chance to succeed by not asking them to do things they can't do. Keep it simple and break things down into smaller parts.

 

[De Nile]

7 hours ago, steve.battisti said:

I’ve tried training players but it’s not working and they all get terrible ratings every game. Should I just play two BWMs?

Honestly you should just make your own tactic there is a lot of help from the forums and videos to make a lower league tactic. The problem with a lot of downloaded is that they are very one dimensional and you not every tactic "successful" tactic will work in LLM especially if you don't have the personnel.

[steve.battisti]

11 hours ago, warlock said:

Often the problem with downloaded tactics. I certainly wouldn't play two BWMs, but if you have a CM with decent passing and vision (for your level) you could play him as a CM-support, with PIs to take more risks or more direct passing.

If you post a screengrab of the tactic you'll get better advice. That advice will change if you're playing a 442, 433 or 4231 (or something else).

Thanks very much for the feedback. Will post screengrab when I am at home...

[steve.battisti]

4 hours ago, De Nile said:

Honestly you should just make your own tactic there is a lot of help from the forums and videos to make a lower league tactic. The problem with a lot of downloaded is that they are very one dimensional and you not every tactic "successful" tactic will work in LLM especially if you don't have the personnel.

Yep. I'm working my way up to that. There's a lot going on in this game and I just haven't had the time to dig into that yet! And in this case, the tactic has been working fine overall, so there hasn't been a strong need for me to mess with it, it's just minorly irritating me that that one central midfield position is always playing at like a half-a-star level.

[steve.battisti]

5 hours ago, Atarin said:

I play LLM and I never mess around with downloaded tactics. FIrst of all 99.9% have BPDs playing a Much high Defensive Line which is simply ridiculous when you've got CBs with Passing of 2, Anticipation 3, Concentration 2 and Pace of 3. They often have Counter-Press enabled as well which isn't a fantastic idea if your average Stamina is 6.

You need to focus on what you have available and keep it simple.

In terms of building an attacking pattern consider what your aim is. The ball has to get from the goalkeeper to the back of the opposition's net. There are only so many ways you can do that. You can move up the pitch by pass and move. Ball goes into feet, pass to some who's found space. Rinse and repeat. For this you need to have players with technique and intelligence. Option 2 is that you hit the ball into space for someone to run onto. In this scenario the ball does all the work moving up the pitch. For this scenario you'll need at least one midfielder with good passing and creativity and a runner who has anticipation, pace  and off the ball. The third option is get the ball to a dribbler. In this scenario moving the ball up the pitch rests on one player's ability to dribble effectively into dangerous areas. You'll need a ball carrier with dribbling, technique and either flair or pace. The final realistic option is the old target man option where you launch the ball at someone further up the field who can bring the ball under control, hold it up and then release runners off of him. For this you need a capable TM who has strength, bravery, first touch and also players with anticipation, concentration and off the ball to link up with him. One or two of these options are going to be realistic with the players that you have available at LLM level.

So, when working out how to build from the back just ask yourself the following questions.

(1) how accurate is my keeper with his hands and feet? If he can't kick or throw it very far and accurately then there's no point asking him to hit it long.

(2) Who in my back-line can I trust to receive the ball from the keeper under pressure? Does anyone have decent Composure, Strength and First Touch? If not then you're going to need a midfielder to drop deep to receive the ball.

(3) Once the ball is with a defender or deep midfielder where are they going to look to move the ball up the field? Can they go short or do they need to look for a runner or TM or is there a designated ball carrier you need the ball to get to?

(4) Once the ball is moving up the pitch what now? Who's it with and how can you make sure the conditions are favourable for them to do their thing? If its gone into someone's feet then you need players for them to pass to so you'll need players with intelligence and movement. If the ball has gone straight up to a target man then where is his support. Does it get to him quickly enough? If the ball has been hit into space is there the space to exploit? If there is who do they have around them to pass to, cross to and just for support should they hit a brick wall. If the ball is with a ball carrier then who are they going to be passing to, crossing to or who is supporting them should they run into trouble?

(5) When you get to the edge of the penalty area how are you getting into a good shooting angle? How are you ensuring your attack isn't crowded out? Are you going to drag the opposition out so there's space behind? Are you going to create a gap in the defence through a switch of play so you've dragged the defence one way only put someone through on the opposite side? A you going to try to outnumber and overload a particular area of the opposition defence?

I find breaking down my attacks into these phases helps me to see where things are breaking down. If you've already realised that playing the ball long to a target man is not an option for you then if you see your team doing that and failing you can go straight into your instructions tell them to cut that out. If your strategy is to hit the ball into space but the space isn't there then you need to consider doing something to create that space or find a plan B. If your dribbler is getting crowded out then you need to draw players away from that area, move your dribbler to a different area or move to plan B.

A lot of people struggle to develop tactics because they (a) don't really have a realistic and well thought out plan and (b) they don't have a strategy for watching their tactic play out. They just see it not working and have no idea why.

 

So, be realistic about your players. Give them the best chance to succeed by not asking them to do things they can't do. Keep it simple and break things down into smaller parts.

 

Thanks, this is great feedback. I mentioned above, but I just haven't had the time yet to dig more deeply into tactics. But this is a great mini-tutorial for how to do it! Will definitely be looking at this more closely next time I'm in front of the game!

[prched55]

@Rashidi has a great thread on LLM and how to develop tactics for your team. 

FM is just about the attributes a player has. Their role familiarity doesn't really matter too much. In terms of not having an advanced playmaker, you really only need above average attributes in Passing, Vision, and Decisions to have an effective playmaker in the lower levels. So I would look for a player who is above average in those 3 and average for your level in Off The Ball, Balance, Dribbling, First Touch, and Technique. 

[Johnny Ace]

12 hours ago, steve.battisti said:

Tactics rookie looking for some minor help. I’m playing a lower league save with a downloaded tactic that uses a ball winning midfielder and an advance playmaker. It’s working well, but at my level there are no  players who are advanced playmakers. 
 

I’ve tried training players but it’s not working and they all get terrible ratings every game. Should I just play two BWMs?

Stick with a basic shape, work with it & stick to the shape. Something basic like a 4-4-2 should serve you well further down the leagues 

[steve.battisti]

10 minutes ago, prched55 said:

@Rashidi has a great thread on LLM and how to develop tactics for your team. 

FM is just about the attributes a player has. Their role familiarity doesn't really matter too much. In terms of not having an advanced playmaker, you really only need above average attributes in Passing, Vision, and Decisions to have an effective playmaker in the lower levels. So I would look for a player who is above average in those 3 and average for your level in Off The Ball, Balance, Dribbling, First Touch, and Technique. 

Yeah I love that thread. And actually I've been doing just that - playing someone with decent attributes in those areas in that position. But he whines incessantly about being played out of position and constantly gets match ratings below 6.5. Hence the question I guess.

[prched55]

21 minutes ago, steve.battisti said:

But he whines incessantly about being played out of position and constantly gets match ratings below 6.5. Hence the question I guess.

I wonder if the downloaded tactic is unbalanced. They tend to be. Can you post a screen shot of your tactic and of your player? There could also be some PPMs messing things up too. 

[warlock]

1 hour ago, Johnny Ace said:

should serve you well further down the leagues

Further up the leagues, hopefully 

[HanziZoloman]

Am 31.1.2022 um 10:14 schrieb Atarin:

A lot of people struggle to develop tactics because they (a) don't really have a realistic and well thought out plan and (b) they don't have a strategy for watching their tactic play out. They just see it not working and have no idea why.

That’s me! Thank you for the posting. It helps so much.