[FM24] [WIP] Iron Curtain 1988 - If you rebuild it, it will come.

[Wolf_pd]

216 East Germans to go and then everybody in East Germany is back where they belong and the work on Western Europe can begin.

[MBarbaric]

always them the problem... blooody westerners!

[Wolf_pd]

[Wolf_pd]

Working through the East German players (should be finished tonight) I wonder with all those teams if a 'Society Cup' would be more interesting than the Kreispokale. For reference see this link.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_German_football_league_system#Enterprise_sports_communities_(BSG)

[Wolf_pd]

East Germany was finished Friday I thought when I suddenly found some Western U19 players hanging around in East Germany. Cleaned those up as well, together with the players of HŠK Zrinjski Mostar and with that the East has been made safe for bourgeoisie western influence!

Next up, Italy (and it's still big...). Working from biggest to smaller (so things should go faster and faster) it is Italy, Austria, Germany, Spain, England and Switzerland (and on and on).

And of course in the meantime I am working on competition in Advanced Rules. Or, how can you make yourself editor mad

Almost at 2000 hours and I am averaging close to 5 hours a day since FM22 was released. Considering that I have a fulltime day job and try to get that 8-9 hours sleep every night it gives you an idea of the time that goes into this.

But..... when this is finished I won't release a next project untill FM32 I have promised myself 

[MBarbaric]

you'd surely win some worker medal if USSR was still around, but then you'r work would be unnecessary. an ugly paradox. that being said, Zrinjski was banned in Yugoslavia. 

[Wolf_pd]

7 hours ago, MBarbaric said:

you'd surely win some worker medal if USSR was still around, but then you'r work would be unnecessary. an ugly paradox. that being said, Zrinjski was banned in Yugoslavia. 

Yes, that's why their players have been moved to other teams. 

[jolobor]

Will the Yugoslav league structure look the same as it did in the IC20 verison? Feel free to ask for help regarding clubs, things like attendances etc.

[Wolf_pd]

15 minutes ago, jolobor said:

Will the Yugoslav league structure look the same as it did in the IC20 verison? Feel free to ask for help regarding clubs, things like attendances etc.

Close to it, the difference will mainly be in the expansion to lower levels.

Appreciate the help!

[Wolf_pd]

On 06/12/2022 at 00:04, Jorgen said:

How many db changes do you have atm?

Just checked, 617K with the latest files, excluding the East Germany and Yugoslavia files which are with Reiver.

[Jorgen]

3 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

Just checked, 617K with the latest files, excluding the East Germany and Yugoslavia files which are with Reiver.

Wow, that's enormous. With Reiver's and everything that needs to be done, do you suspect to go to 1 million?

 

Keep up the good work 😁👍

[Wolf_pd]

1 minute ago, Jorgen said:

Wow, that's enormous. With Reiver's and everything that needs to be done, do you suspect to go to 1 million?

I think we will stay under that, but 800K is conceivable. 

[Jorgen]

@Wolf_pd That still is huge. Will there be changes in Europe and other continents too, like different names/states  such as Mindanao (Phillipines), the different Yemen nations, Republic of China, South Africa, People's Republic of Kampuchea, Dominion of Canada, Dominion of New Zealand, Polish Peoples Republic, Zaire,  Transnistria?

Edited December 12, 2022 by Jorgen

[Samuel77]

"(...) but 800K is conceivable."

You are hard workers 

Edited December 12, 2022 by Samuel77

[Wolf_pd]

18 minutes ago, Jorgen said:

@Wolf_pd That still is huge. Will there be changes in Europe and other continents too, like different names/states  such as Mindanao (Phillipines), the different Yemen nations, Republic of China, Bantu nations in South Africa, People's Republic of Kampuchea, Dominion of Canada, Dominion of New Zealand, Polish Peoples Republic, Zaire,  Transnistria?

We have renamed the areas in the nations we have rebuild, but since we don't change the Philippines we won't rename local regions there. I don't think they are visible there either.
In general we use the nation names that FIFA uses or in this case used at that time. That means that North and South Yemen are in. I renamed Yemen for that and activated South Yemen. The republic of China is not in the game as name as FIFA doesn't use that name.

The Bantu nations in South Africa are from the Apartheid era and we have decided that the only option we are going to offer is the pre-1994 flag, but the competition will remain as it is now. I am not even going into the technical difficulty to recreate that as the basic thought about Apartheid makes me say no.

Canada, New Zealand and Poland were always known with their current name for FIFA. Zaire (formerly and future DR Congo) has been name changed and Transnistria wasn't there in the USSR era, that's something that came up due to the breaking of the USSR. I have used the area during the build of the USSR as it is a good indication of where people speak Russian, but that's it.

People's Republic of Kampuchea is a complex one. In a political sense there were two governments. You had the Democratic Kampuchea which was considered the nation by among others the UN. And you had the People's Republic of Kampuchea as officially leading the nation. But the main point was that both Cambodia and Kampuchea were used at the same time.

[Jorgen]

1 hour ago, Wolf_pd said:

We have renamed the areas in the nations we have rebuild, but since we don't change the Philippines we won't rename local regions there. I don't think they are visible there either.
In general we use the nation names that FIFA uses or in this case used at that time. That means that North and South Yemen are in. I renamed Yemen for that and activated South Yemen. The republic of China is not in the game as name as FIFA doesn't use that name.

The Bantu nations in South Africa are from the Apartheid era and we have decided that the only option we are going to offer is the pre-1994 flag, but the competition will remain as it is now. I am not even going into the technical difficulty to recreate that as the basic thought about Apartheid makes me say no.

Canada, New Zealand and Poland were always known with their current name for FIFA. Zaire (formerly and future DR Congo) has been name changed and Transnistria wasn't there in the USSR era, that's something that came up due to the breaking of the USSR. I have used the area during the build of the USSR as it is a good indication of where people speak Russian, but that's it.

People's Republic of Kampuchea is a complex one. In a political sense there were two governments. You had the Democratic Kampuchea which was considered the nation by among others the UN. And you had the People's Republic of Kampuchea as officially leading the nation. But the main point was that both Cambodia and Kampuchea were used at the same time.

Apartheid was a very very afwful part of history indeed. I just learned about the Bantu nations and previous Dominion names as I checked wikipedia for the nations there were there in 1980-1990. So I was curious to find out how that part was treated and I think you are absolutely right to avoid that at all.

[Wolf_pd]

Started with 2449 players to check for Italy. After some smart checks already brought that down to 1936. Too bad it won't go as fast tomorrow Going to need a few weeks for this I think. Luckily I have competitions to work on as well to mix it up a bit.

[anitamui]

is it true that all footballers in Communist Countries must stay in their countries until they are past their prime(27 years old)?

where did people get this info? why I can't find anywhere in the internet that says so?

[Wolf_pd]

1 hour ago, anitamui said:

is it true that all footballers in Communist Countries must stay in their countries until they are past their prime(27 years old)?

where did people get this info? why I can't find anywhere in the internet that says so?

No, that’s not completely true.

Players from Bulgaria, Romania and Albania were not allowed to leave. Players from Russia were only allowed to leave when 30. Players from Czechoslovakia were only allowed to leave when 32. Players from Yugoslavia were allowed to leave their country when 27.

Not sure why you can’t find that information, but the information I gathered was via people in this thread, several FM researchers, friends from Slovakia, Poland and Hungary, a book on Soviet football among others.

It is a bit the same with the foreign players rules in Europe. Not having internet at that time means it never got online.

[valve]

Poland had an age limit of 30 in the 1970s, later reduced to 28 (that's how Boniek was allowed to go to Italy in 1982).

Of course, defections were routine, especially to Germany. Unfortunately FM does not allow to recreate that aspect of history.

[MBarbaric]

1 ora fa, valve ha scritto:

Poland had an age limit of 30 in the 1970s, later reduced to 28 (that's how Boniek was allowed to go to Italy in 1982).

Of course, defections were routine, especially to Germany. Unfortunately FM does not allow to recreate that aspect of history.

without intention, but it does. occasionally the agent will offer a player to foreign clubs and he will end up in a foreign country way before the age he'd be allowed. at least it worked tthat way back in fm16 days.

[Wolf_pd]

It still does, for both FM20 and FM22. The only thing you can't do is the year ban that East German players would get from FIFA.

[valve]

2 hours ago, MBarbaric said:

without intention, but it does. occasionally the agent will offer a player to foreign clubs and he will end up in a foreign country way before the age he'd be allowed. at least it worked tthat way back in fm16 days.

But, but, there were no agents in these days... and players were essentially slaves to clubs until the Bosman ruling.

[Wolf_pd]

44 minutes ago, valve said:

But, but, there were no agents in these days... and players were essentially slaves to clubs until the Bosman ruling.

This is then probably a secret agent who acts for the west to lure the player away from the east.

[Wolf_pd]

606 more foreign players to go and then I have checked/moved back all foreign players below Serie and Serie B.

Serie A and Serie B themselves have another 570 foreign players at that moment...!

So while I started with 2449 foreign players, I have some 1200 to go. But being able to work through 1250 in less than a week is a positive!  Hopefully cleaning up the Serie A and B teams goes just as fast, but I might post some questions hearing asking for opinions on who to keep.

[Wolf_pd]

Managed to bring the 1176 back to 750 now. I should be able to finish the non-Serie A and B foreigners tomorrow.

[Wolf_pd]

68 foreigners outside Serie A and B to go, but I have already cleaned a quarter of the Serie A/B teams as well. The advantage is that many of the foreign players are the really young ones, 16-19 years and those can be moved right away. There are always better players in the 25-29 age range.

[Wolf_pd]

From Serie A and B only 241 to go and then Italy is finished!

And then it's time for Austria. At least they allow for 3 foreigners.

[Wolf_pd]

Italy is finished and so is San Marino (quick one).

Instead of Austria I will do the Nordic countries first as I won't have that much time next week, due it being the last week of work before my three week holiday starts.

[Wolf_pd]

Denmark, Faroe Islands and Norway already done. Sweden is quite a bit bigger, so that will take a few days. Finland should be done at the end of the week.

[Wolf_pd]

Sweden will be finished tomorrow. Just 115 foreigners to go. Finland is quite a bit smaller so should be finished this year (I know, that's a challenge )

But more importantly, from Fridayafternoon on I have three weeks of holiday!

[Wolf_pd]

To end the year with some statistics (our host is fixing some more drinks and food in the kitchen so I am allowed online )

I have finished Sweden yesterday and Finland today, so the Nordics are done. Next up is the Benelux and the Polish and Romanian competitions (I can work in the day afterall for the next three weeks!)

9383 foreign players left to check and move (not all of them luckily)

The current files in game have a total of 695,924 changes. Considering the changes still to do on the front of players, balancing and DDR and Yugoslavia, my 800K estimate was too conservative and 1,000,000 is very much possible.

And there are the new snacks and drinks! Good night!

[Nicke9000]

Happy new year Wolf!

[Wolf_pd]

On 31/12/2022 at 23:37, Nicke9000 said:

Happy new year Wolf!

Thank you and happy new year to you too!

Instead of the Benelux I opted for the UK and Ireland as England will be a big job. It is surprising to see the difference between the Premier League and the First Division in terms of foreign players employed. About 25 in the Premier League on average and one division down that goes down to 8. Currently cleaning up the lower levels, with only 25 to go and then it's cleaning up PL and Division 1 to 3. Luckily division 3 will be a quick one, but things get progressively harder the higher you go. Manchester City and Chelsea have 42 and 43 foreign players to check. I am not even sure whether they have a team left when I am done with them!

[Jorgen]

Happy New Year!

As Chelsea and Manchester do have the money and the knowhow to use their youth academies, they will probably survive this project with less pain than some smaller teams. I am very curious to see how fast they will adapt.

[Wolf_pd]

They will probably buy the other teams empty. That's at least what I saw happen in Iron Curtain 20. I wish there was an option for a maximum transferbudget nation or competiton wide.

[Jorgen]

@Wolf_pd What about just using the optional transferban for the first transfer window at game start? That wuold at least prevent clubs from buying right away.

[Wolf_pd]

That won't prevent the teams from loading up in the winter though. I have done a lot of testing for IC20 and you would see English teams rob the place in the first winter transfer period.

[Wolf_pd]

England is done, so the second of the big 5 is cleaned up. English teams have never looked so different

Tomorrow Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and Ireland (and those should be possible in 1 day.

[Wolf_pd]

Scotland is now also done. Hopefully I can find some time to do Wales and the Irelands tonight.

[Wolf_pd]

Wales, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland are done.

Tomorrow time for some competition building and world building while I am doing the administration and the weekend cleaning.

Next week work on the Benelux. 8348 foreigners to go, with the Benelux accounting for 1569 of those.

[Jorgen]

With so many changes already and probably hitting the big 1 million; did the thought cross your mind to add legendary players and coaches too?

You do everything so thoroughly, so I can imagine you have ideas about that too, also knowing that it will multiply the work left exponentially.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Jorgen

[Wolf_pd]

The game is set in starting year 2022 as if the Berlin Wall never fell. So adding those players and coaches is not on the menu. The only exception would be to add them if they are now excluded from the game for some reason.

[rusty217]

On 05/01/2023 at 03:15, Wolf_pd said:

That won't prevent the teams from loading up in the winter though. I have done a lot of testing for IC20 and you would see English teams rob the place in the first winter transfer period.

There's an option to limit the number of transfers right? France uses it for their "joker" transfer. They're only allowed to buy 1 player from other French clubs.

You could always implement something like that if you wanted to prevent that from happening. Limit clubs to only 1 or 2 domestic transfers per transfer window. Could also make it only apply for the first year or two if you didn't want it to be a permanent thing.

[Wolf_pd]

44 minutes ago, rusty217 said:

There's an option to limit the number of transfers right? France uses it for their "joker" transfer. They're only allowed to buy 1 player from other French clubs.

You could always implement something like that if you wanted to prevent that from happening. Limit clubs to only 1 or 2 domestic transfers per transfer window. Could also make it only apply for the first year or two if you didn't want it to be a permanent thing.

That's a good thought, I will take that into consideration.

[V2023]

Sorry if this has already been answered, but how did you deal with extinct nations that are playable in the base game (e.g. Croatia, Ukraine) and stop them producing newgens? 

When I created a similar file for only Yugoslavia I was able to remove the non-playable nations by simply removing their continent, but for playable nations this would completely break the league selection screen. But when only removing the FIFA affiliation and every other database instance like players and competitions, there still would be some newgens generated, though when it came to players they at least all had a second nationality.

[Wolf_pd]

58 minutes ago, V2023 said:

Sorry if this has already been answered, but how did you deal with extinct nations that are playable in the base game (e.g. Croatia, Ukraine) and stop them producing newgens? 

When I created a similar file for only Yugoslavia I was able to remove the non-playable nations by simply removing their continent, but for playable nations this would completely break the league selection screen. But when only removing the FIFA affiliation and every other database instance like players and competitions, there still would be some newgens generated, though when it came to players they at least all had a second nationality.

The trick is that the league selection screen works on alphabet. The issue actually already turned up in IC15 or 16 and by renaming the extinct nations so they end up in the last position (invisible, but they are there) the selection screen works again.  

[V2023]

6 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

The trick is that the league selection screen works on alphabet. The issue actually already turned up in IC15 or 16 and by renaming the extinct nations so they end up in the last position (invisible, but they are there) the selection screen works again.  

Ah, that makes sense, thanks!

[Wolf_pd]

For a moment I thought I managed to create a bugged situation where England was Brexited while Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland decided to stay in the EU, but it turned out I made a data mistake.

One thing I did notice however and which has been added to the list, is that all last signed contract dates for foreign players will have to be moved to 1-1-2021 so they will be counted as full foreigners. This wasn't an issue in FM20 (I think), but should give the English football system a bit more of a shock.

I also need to check whether my match rules are correct as my registration should not enable ALL Under 21 to be registered automatically. That was a difference I noticed for England and Austria among others. You needed to specify there that only domestic Under 21 were registered automatically.

[Wolf_pd]

Tonight no data work on the Benelux. The Netherlands is already done btw, but surprisingly that was the smallest of the three. Belgium is a bit more work, but things are progressing nicely there.

But tonight I have some work planned on the general data like cleaning up results and records. Too bad I can't edit national records, they are blocked. Which annoys me a lot as the record for Malaysia is one that I want to edit.