Replicating Jurgen Klopp's Liverpool - 2021/22

[halfspace3000]

11 hours ago, Kloppy said:

Nice passing map against Burnley using @ElJefe4 tactic. Good positions. Good movement. A peeve is I would like the right centre back to be on average higher up to replicate the VVD long ball starting position and the Matip close to midfield for his runs. Will change VVD to a BPD as I achieved the CB shape quite well in the original post. Will continue to use and move on to other posters tactics off the thread. 

hows the season going with LFC?

[ElJefe4]

Has anyone ever used 'Stay Wider' on CBs in a back 4? If so, how useful is it?

The reason I ask is that I find that Robertson often goes high and wide quite early. Sometimes he'll be even higher than below, passing my LW. If my LCB stays central, the distance between can be too big, meaning its not a safe pass. 

I was thinking of using it to get my LCB (in this case Konate) to be a bit closer to the 'X'. In real life our LCM would often drop into this sort of area and bridge that gap between LCB and LB. This doesn't happen regularly in FM though so I could do with a workaround. 

[ElJefe4]

Robertson to Elliott was cash money against Newcastle. 

Particularly like the 2nd goal. Shows Milner in the LCM role playing more of a part in the build up and Jones in the RCM role trying to make forward runs.

 

 

[Ramsdal03]

10 hours ago, ElJefe4 said:

Robertson to Elliott was cash money against Newcastle. 

Particularly like the 2nd goal. Shows Milner in the LCM role playing more of a part in the build up and Jones in the RCM role trying to make forward runs.

 

 

Milner om CM(s) here? The only thing missing is RB going a bit more narrow to be a playmaker option

[ElJefe4]

6 hours ago, Ramsdal03 said:

Milner om CM(s) here? The only thing missing is RB going a bit more narrow to be a playmaker option

Yep. A simple CM (S) with the Hold Position PI.

Yeah, the positioning and passing tendencies of the right back is definitely proving the most difficult to nail down. I can’t really blame SI too much, as Trent is such a unique player, but hopefully we can all figure something out. 

 

[Kloppy]

On 23/01/2022 at 15:15, halfspace3000 said:

hows the season going with LFC?

Top of the league losing twice and two draws. Not really focusing on the results though as with Liverpool you should be winning most with any formation. Tactic struggles with 5-3-2 formations against the likes of Brentford which seems realistic looking at our result against them in real life. Unlike real life though is that Man United is very overpowered, City, Chelsea and Spurs are fighting mid-table/relegation. Enjoying our football and youth development which is great. Passion4fm's Ajax (TIPS) training schedules are wonderful btw. 

[Kloppy]

19 hours ago, ElJefe4 said:

Robertson to Elliott was cash money against Newcastle. 

Particularly like the 2nd goal. Shows Milner in the LCM role playing more of a part in the build up and Jones in the RCM role trying to make forward runs.

 

 

Love the goals and especially the build-up. Having plenty of goals just like that in my save, which is promising as it is such a 'Liverpool' type goal. Robertson with 20 assists in 38 games which is a tad unrealistic though but the play is encouraging.

[Kloppy]

On 23/01/2022 at 17:13, GabrielK said:

See my tactics, i love Kloop style of play

 

Nice tactic, could be what Klopp perceives to be his secondary tactic with the 4231. Cant say I'm too familiar with it to comment though, but do us updated on results and how it plays in the game. 

[odee]

En 23/1/2022 a las 16:53, ElJefe4 dijo:

Has anyone ever used 'Stay Wider' on CBs in a back 4? If so, how useful is it?

The reason I ask is that I find that Robertson often goes high and wide quite early. Sometimes he'll be even higher than below, passing my LW. If my LCB stays central, the distance between can be too big, meaning its not a safe pass. 

I was thinking of using it to get my LCB (in this case Konate) to be a bit closer to the 'X'. In real life our LCM would often drop into this sort of area and bridge that gap between LCB and LB. This doesn't happen regularly in FM though so I could do with a workaround. 

I saw this tactic elsewhere, I thought that maybe using a DLP(d) could solve this problem.

Not sure about the WBs though, I prefer a flat 4 at the back. Also, you and @Kloppy did an excellent job creating the tactics, keep up the good work.

 

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by odee

[ElJefe4]

22 hours ago, odee said:

I saw this tactic elsewhere, I thought that maybe using a DLP(d) could solve this problem.

Not sure about the WBs though, I prefer a flat 4 at the back. Also, you and @Kloppy did an excellent job creating the tactics, keep up the good work.

 

 

I had considered using Thiago in a DLP role at the start of the season, initially just to get him more involved in the build up and keep him closer to Fabinho. In the end I decided against it based on the fact that I didn't want our moves to slow down by looking for a playmaker. It's definitely something which could be worth a go though. Once he's back from injury in my save I might try it out a few times. 

[Kloppy]

https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/how-liverpools-right-hand-side-has-evolved-season

[Kloppy]

On 26/01/2022 at 01:01, odee said:

I saw this tactic elsewhere, I thought that maybe using a DLP(d) could solve this problem.

Not sure about the WBs though, I prefer a flat 4 at the back. Also, you and @Kloppy did an excellent job creating the tactics, keep up the good work.

 

 

You got the link for that tactic by any chance? Would love to test it out but don’t quite understand the instructions 😂

[Ramsdal03]

with Thiago playing it’s much more 4-3-3 with high wingers when defending and 4-2-3-1 with fluid cm’s in possession. Would love to replicate the CM to cover FB in the build up. Yesterday both Thiago and Jones shiftet at doing that, with Fabinho stepping into midfield as a DM s would do 

[Kloppy]

On 11/02/2022 at 18:44, Ramsdal03 said:

with Thiago playing it’s much more 4-3-3 with high wingers when defending and 4-2-3-1 with fluid cm’s in possession. Would love to replicate the CM to cover FB in the build up. Yesterday both Thiago and Jones shiftet at doing that, with Fabinho stepping into midfield as a DM s would do 

Wonder would a formation similar to the last tactic shown with the full backs pushed up to wingbacks and then using a flat 3 in the midfield allow for the midfielders to be wider and cover the fullbacks. If we put WB(A) on our WBs so they constantly push forward would a CM(D) on stay wider and roam cover adequately. Not at my computer so not even sure if you can use them instructions on a CM or I can’t explain. properly without screenshots. But would be a good start for another experiment of Jurgens tactics.

———CM(D)——DM———-CAR————-

WB(A).—————————————IWB(A)

—————BPD———-BPD———————

 

not sure what Fabinho is if we are going flat 3 midfield. 

[alinp]

On 22/01/2022 at 00:35, Kloppy said:

Hi, mate do comment further when ready. Yeah, I was thinking of trying the flat midfield three as looking at screenshots of the midfield during games looked quite flat to me. I think it's very personnel orientated our shape in the middle 3. Against Chelsea, with Fab, Hendo and Millie it was a flat 3 but with Fab, Curtis and Naby it is more defined with the roles not looking like a flat 3 IMO. Also, looking through passing maps from my games, I'm noticing my positioning of the middle 3 (bar Hendo) is quite flat anyways, even if the tactics are not to show. Feel free to test and see what happens for you. I'm going to test the flat 3 now. BUT I'm not changing any roles if possible, obviously, the Fabinho role if Anchorman cannot be used...any suggestions? The Hendo role is looking good due to earlier discussion on the thread so ill leave that role safe.

Hey @Kloppy  How's it been going?  Hope you've had success. 

Anyway, wanted to come back to you with my take on this, using your tactic as a base.  I took yours, played with it for a few seasons around various leagues, including three-peat titles in Germany with Dortmund.  Over the seasons, I tinkered until I got to something I was happy with, both in being effective in FM and honest to Jurgen's mighty Reds.  Once the winter update was released, it was time to start a new save with the latest LFC squad and the finished tactic.  Results were somewhat impressive.

So... the tactic...

Much of this is similar I think to your starting point.  One notable difference is that I've use "Hold Shape" and not Counter - that's basically because I don't believe that to counter is Klopp's default position - he's more about controlling the game than people give him credit for.  Counters do still happen, but they're triggered when there's a natural opportunity to do so, such as winning the ball high by pressing, or when the opposition over commit (like at corners).

Additional Role PI's

• SK; None
• IWB; Shoot less Often
• BPD (both); Stay Wider
• CWB; Cross from Byline, Dribble More, Shoot less Often
• BWM; None
• Mez; Dribble More, Run wide with ball, Shoot less Often
• RPM; Shoot less Often
• IF-A; Stay Wider
• F9; Shoot Less Often; Roam from Position; Tackle Harder
• IF-S; Roam from Position

Set Pieces

• Corner Defend:  
• Corner Attack: 

Results... can't complain...

Also won both domestic cups to complete a treble, but fell at the final hurdle in the Champions League 

Let me know if you've any questions.

Cheers - it's been fun.

 

Edited March 6, 2022 by alinp

[Kloppy]

18 minutes ago, alinp said:

Hey @Kloppy  How's it been going?  Hope you've had success. 

Anyway, wanted to come back to you with my take on this, using your tactic as a base.  I took yours, played with it for a few seasons around various leagues, including three-peat titles in Germany with Dortmund.  Over the seasons, I tinkered until I got to something I was happy with, both in being effective in FM and honest to Jurgen's mighty Reds.  Once the winter update was released, it was time to start a new save with the latest LFC squad and the finished tactic.  Results were somewhat impressive.

So... the tactic...

Much of this is similar I think to your starting point.  One notable difference is that I've use "Hold Shape" and not Counter - that's basically because I don't believe that to counter is Klopp's default position - he's more about controlling the game than people give him credit for.  Counters do still happen, but they're triggered when there's a natural opportunity to do so, such as winning the ball high by pressing, or when the opposition over commit (like at corners).

Additional Role PI's

• SK; None
• IWB; Shoot less Often
• BPD (both); Stay Wider
• CWB; Cross from Byline, Dribble More, Shoot less Often
• BWM; None
• Mez; Dribble More, Run wide with ball, Shoot less Often
• RPM; Shoot less Often
• IF-A; Stay Wider
• F9; Shoot Less Often; Roam from Position; Tackle Harder
• IF-S; Roam from Position

Set Pieces

• Corner Defend:  
• Corner Attack: 

Results... can't complain...

Also won both domestic cups to complete a treble, but fell at the final hurdle in the Champions League 

Let me know if you've any questions.

Cheers - it's been fun.

 

Love it mate! 

 

Great to see your success. Im hoping for the invincibles in my save at the minute.

Im using the same as you really tactics wise basically with the midfield and Trent and front 3 roles. Will use your PI's and give them a go. Hold shape is interesting, suppose counter would have been the instruction "pre-Virgil" when we did not have that quality to hold on to the ball for longer. In hindsight I agree with you there and will change my tactic accordingly to see the difference. 

Love you including set pieces, now I have watched videos on especially defending corners the Jurgen way but never really felt we could recreate it with the limits of set piece positioning and "roles" within FM set pieces. 

To incite conversation and bring the thread back to life as Liverpool close Man City in real life, could you explain the centre back roles? Why are they different? Do you think we need to dribble more out of the RCB to replicate Matips runs, which have been confirmed to be a tactic. We should try replicate this. Also, would play more safe passes be used for all our midfielders you reckon?

Cheers for the post again. 

 

Here is a good video on the Trent role incase anyone who is reading hasn't seen.

 

 

[alinp]

12 minutes ago, Kloppy said:

 

To incite conversation and bring the thread back to life as Liverpool close Man City in real life, could you explain the centre back roles? Why are they different? Do you think we need to dribble more out of the RCB to replicate Matips runs, which have been confirmed to be a tactic. We should try replicate this. Also, would play more safe passes be used for all our midfielders you reckon?

By all means use anything you think could be useful... it's all about sharing

I use a Cover/Stopper combo because, well, that's what I think they are.  Ever since Virgil arrived, generally the right sided CB has been more aggressive and stepping out to challenge high up the pitch.  The other CB roles seem to put limits on them running with the ball, so BPD was all that was really left.  Matip's runs are really a product of his PPM's, IMO, rather than any specific instructions, so left that neutral so it wouldn't interfere with his nature.

Again, re. midfielders passes - I'd leave it neutral and leave it to role and PPMs.  IRL, for example, Elliott isn't afraid of attempting a risky pass.

[Jyuan83]

15 hours ago, alinp said:

Hey @Kloppy  How's it been going?  Hope you've had success. 

Anyway, wanted to come back to you with my take on this, using your tactic as a base.  I took yours, played with it for a few seasons around various leagues, including three-peat titles in Germany with Dortmund.  Over the seasons, I tinkered until I got to something I was happy with, both in being effective in FM and honest to Jurgen's mighty Reds.  Once the winter update was released, it was time to start a new save with the latest LFC squad and the finished tactic.  Results were somewhat impressive.

So... the tactic...

Much of this is similar I think to your starting point.  One notable difference is that I've use "Hold Shape" and not Counter - that's basically because I don't believe that to counter is Klopp's default position - he's more about controlling the game than people give him credit for.  Counters do still happen, but they're triggered when there's a natural opportunity to do so, such as winning the ball high by pressing, or when the opposition over commit (like at corners).

Additional Role PI's

• SK; None
• IWB; Shoot less Often
• BPD (both); Stay Wider
• CWB; Cross from Byline, Dribble More, Shoot less Often
• BWM; None
• Mez; Dribble More, Run wide with ball, Shoot less Often
• RPM; Shoot less Often
• IF-A; Stay Wider
• F9; Shoot Less Often; Roam from Position; Tackle Harder
• IF-S; Roam from Position

Set Pieces

• Corner Defend:  
• Corner Attack: 

Results... can't complain...

Also won both domestic cups to complete a treble, but fell at the final hurdle in the Champions League 

Let me know if you've any questions.

Cheers - it's been fun.

 

Hello how is salah doing for you as an IF on attack with stay wider as PI? My issue with this is that AML/R always tend to come narrower regardless of the PI given them. The role i found to replicate the width that salah does is the IW role at MR. I find that it stays a lot wider during the build-up. However my consternation about playing salah at MR is that it might affect his goal output.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Jyuan83

[Kloppy]

Henderson on playing nearer the touch line: 

“It’s to create space for the striker to drop or for Trent to go inside. It’s so hard to defend. I do have a good relationship with Mo to be honest, he makes everything easier for me.” [BT]
 

Explanation on the MEZZELA role for him.

[alinp]

On 07/03/2022 at 06:13, Jyuan83 said:

Hello how is salah doing for you as an IF on attack with stay wider as PI? My issue with this is that AML/R always tend to come narrower regardless of the PI given them. The role i found to replicate the width that salah does is the IW role at MR. I find that it stays a lot wider during the build-up. However my consternation about playing salah at MR is that it might affect his goal output.

Well I can't complain - he scored 47 goals.

[w_x]

On 06/03/2022 at 15:11, alinp said:

Hey @Kloppy  How's it been going?  Hope you've had success. 

Anyway, wanted to come back to you with my take on this, using your tactic as a base.  I took yours, played with it for a few seasons around various leagues, including three-peat titles in Germany with Dortmund.  Over the seasons, I tinkered until I got to something I was happy with, both in being effective in FM and honest to Jurgen's mighty Reds.  Once the winter update was released, it was time to start a new save with the latest LFC squad and the finished tactic.  Results were somewhat impressive.

So... the tactic...

Much of this is similar I think to your starting point.  One notable difference is that I've use "Hold Shape" and not Counter - that's basically because I don't believe that to counter is Klopp's default position - he's more about controlling the game than people give him credit for.  Counters do still happen, but they're triggered when there's a natural opportunity to do so, such as winning the ball high by pressing, or when the opposition over commit (like at corners).

Additional Role PI's

• SK; None
• IWB; Shoot less Often
• BPD (both); Stay Wider
• CWB; Cross from Byline, Dribble More, Shoot less Often
• BWM; None
• Mez; Dribble More, Run wide with ball, Shoot less Often
• RPM; Shoot less Often
• IF-A; Stay Wider
• F9; Shoot Less Often; Roam from Position; Tackle Harder
• IF-S; Roam from Position

Set Pieces

• Corner Defend:  
• Corner Attack: 

Results... can't complain...

Also won both domestic cups to complete a treble, but fell at the final hurdle in the Champions League 

Let me know if you've any questions.

Cheers - it's been fun.

 

Very good tactic. Plenty of goals, a solid defence, TAA and Robertson getting plenty of assists. Scored so many goals from corners it feels like an exploit? But maybe that's because TAA and Van Dijk are so powerful

[Kloppy]

Finished up the save today, and never changed the idea from the original posted. Used every tactic posted here for at least one season. Here are the results ignoring Spain. Went unbeaten twice (using my original tactic  ). Good evidence showing success, even though the main idea was for Jurgen Klopp's 21/22 play-style rather than results. Also, a good sign of a good tactic, that I never made on signing over 1 million. Academy players/signings only. Thank you guys for the great contribution, and let's keep an eye out for how the Red's boss approaches these finals and last league games and how he will use Naby Keita and Thiago in his midfield whilst using Mane as his False 9.

[Draakon]

In my mind Liverpool tactics is difficult to recreate in FM because of different passing styles. FM lets you set it either short or direct, but Liverpool very often switch between two styles during  the game. They can play comfortable, possession-based football with short passing in games that they dominate (against smaller teams) but whenever their opponent tries to attack so that Liverpool needs to drop deeper for 2 minutes, they can switch gears and go for what FM calls 'fluid counter-attack) - long direct balls forward towards Salah or Mane on the run and those two can be lethal even in 2 vs. 4 or similar situations.

So many Liverpool goals come from such counter-attacks that it has become more common than gegenpress goals (ball won high on the pitch). 

[Kloppy]

 

[yonko]

20 hours ago, Kloppy said:

 

The most interesting part of this video for me was when he was talking about Liverpool's pressing strategy. The goal of the press is not to channel the opponent to specific area or to force them into mistake but rather to chase the ball and tackle to win the ball in specific areas in order to trigger the attack/counter-attack. Which is in line with Klopp's main idea that the counter-press is the best form of playmaker when you win the ball in the right areas of the pitch.

[Kloppy]

Jurgen Klopp admits Luis Diaz's arrival at Anfield has "affected" Sadio Mane's game. Mane, 30, is used to playing on the left of Klopp's front three, with Roberto Firmino or Diogo Jota playing in a central role and Mohamed Salah slotting in down the right. But since Diaz's arrival, Mane has often been deployed as a No9 to accommodate Diaz.  The impact has been obvious. Mane scored twice in Liverpool's 3-2 FA Cup win against Manchester City on Saturday afternoon while playing in a central role. He's also bagged against Norwich, Leeds and West Ham in recent weeks when starting down the middle.

What lineup for the front three are you guys thinking now that Sadio is playing as the 9?

[alinp]

On 04/05/2022 at 20:40, Kloppy said:

Jurgen Klopp admits Luis Diaz's arrival at Anfield has "affected" Sadio Mane's game. Mane, 30, is used to playing on the left of Klopp's front three, with Roberto Firmino or Diogo Jota playing in a central role and Mohamed Salah slotting in down the right. But since Diaz's arrival, Mane has often been deployed as a No9 to accommodate Diaz.  The impact has been obvious. Mane scored twice in Liverpool's 3-2 FA Cup win against Manchester City on Saturday afternoon while playing in a central role. He's also bagged against Norwich, Leeds and West Ham in recent weeks when starting down the middle.

What lineup for the front three are you guys thinking now that Sadio is playing as the 9?

I’d keep him as an F9 tbh… maybe tweak the AML role to better reflect how Diaz tends to keep the width? IW(A) with Stay Wider?

[Djeon36]

Just wondering what kind of striker do u think plays when Klopp doesn't use a false 9? I feel like this is what happens when Jota plays at striker or someone else? maybe PF(a) works? since they press the opposition more than a ST(a)? 

[Kloppy]

16 hours ago, Djeon36 said:

Just wondering what kind of striker do u think plays when Klopp doesn't use a false 9? I feel like this is what happens when Jota plays at striker or someone else? maybe PF(a) works? since they press the opposition more than a ST(a)? 

In summary, he seems to use the false 9 with Bobby, and Mane (lately) who do it very well. When Jota plays he roams all over the final third whichever position he plays in. When he does play through the middle, he widens more than Firmino. While the Brazilian is one of the best around at dropping into positions between the lines to receive passes, Jota prefers to move out towards the left. In doing so, like Firmino, he helps create space for Mané and Salah to attack. He drops deep but also looks for that run in-behind the defender which eliminates the false 9. He does though work extremely hard to find space, however, and is constantly on the move in the final third – which in itself can create space for others. He also works hard defensively and has adapted well to Liverpool's out-of-possession approach. He is clever in cutting off passing lanes and good at adjusting the angle of his press to force the opposition towards a teammate or a crowded area of the pitch. He is then aggressive in his attempts to win the ball and regains possession as often through tackles as he does interceptions. This leads me to think PF with roam from position and get in channels?

[Djeon36]

On 18/05/2022 at 10:18, Kloppy said:

In summary, he seems to use the false 9 with Bobby, and Mane (lately) who do it very well. When Jota plays he roams all over the final third whichever position he plays in. When he does play through the middle, he widens more than Firmino. While the Brazilian is one of the best around at dropping into positions between the lines to receive passes, Jota prefers to move out towards the left. In doing so, like Firmino, he helps create space for Mané and Salah to attack. He drops deep but also looks for that run in-behind the defender which eliminates the false 9. He does though work extremely hard to find space, however, and is constantly on the move in the final third – which in itself can create space for others. He also works hard defensively and has adapted well to Liverpool's out-of-possession approach. He is clever in cutting off passing lanes and good at adjusting the angle of his press to force the opposition towards a teammate or a crowded area of the pitch. He is then aggressive in his attempts to win the ball and regains possession as often through tackles as he does interceptions. This leads me to think PF with roam from position and get in channels?

Wow that's awesome thank you for the research. Do you think maybe a PF(S) would work better than PF(a) since a PF on support would drop deeper and try to be more creative? Not sure about its attack outlook though cause I don't really use PF on support much

[Kloppy]

18 hours ago, Djeon36 said:

Wow that's awesome thank you for the research. Do you think maybe a PF(S) would work better than PF(a) since a PF on support would drop deeper and try to be more creative? Not sure about its attack outlook though cause I don't really use PF on support much

From my save with Liverpool, I used a PF(S) for Jota. In-game it does the job, scored plenty but in FM22 Liverpool is always going to score so I can't give much of the pros versus cons of the roles. I would go with PF(S) since at a guess PF(A) would just be a pressure on the backline and not much else but as you said PF on support would drop deeper and try to be more creative which Jota and Sadio have done this season. 

[Kloppy]

In Pep Lijnder's new book 'Intensity', he mentions against the 1-1 draw against Chelsea that Liverpool did not have a plan against a low block after 70 minutes. He does mention in the summer he had prepared a set-up based on going 3-4-3 (with the 4 as a diamond). He would bring in two new fresh faces in Curtis and Oxlade, for example on the outside of the diamond and Fabinho at the base like a 'false centre back'. The back three would consist of Robbo, Virgil, and Trent.

 

How would this look?

 

[kepz]

how does the HB position himself in the back 3? most tactics writers on here advise against it so I've never tried it. 

think Pep's book is worth picking up?

[Jack722]

47 minutes ago, Kloppy said:

In Pep Lijnder's new book 'Intensity', he mentions against the 1-1 draw against Chelsea that Liverpool did not have a plan against a low block after 70 minutes. He does mention in the summer he had prepared a set-up based on going 3-4-3 (with the 4 as a diamond). He would bring in two new fresh faces in Curtis and Oxlade, for example on the outside of the diamond and Fabinho at the base like a 'false centre back'. The back three would consist of Robbo, Virgil, and Trent.

 

How would this look?

 

Unless you play Longball, I can't see how this will work. 

Easiest way to break down a low block is by using the wings and stretching the back line. This has 0 width.

I'm pretty sure the typical 343 diamond has a wide front 3, with both wingers staying outside the opposition fullbacks in the wide lanes , unless arriving in the box for a far post cross.

[Kloppy]

1 hour ago, kepz said:

how does the HB position himself in the back 3? most tactics writers on here advise against it so I've never tried it. 

think Pep's book is worth picking up?

I'm only guessing what a false 9 CB is. Don't take the instructions as accurate. Yeah the book is decent, only 80 pages in but if the price drops you should give it a go imo

[Kloppy]

1 hour ago, Jack722 said:

Unless you play Longball, I can't see how this will work. 

Easiest way to break down a low block is by using the wings and stretching the back line. This has 0 width.

I'm pretty sure the typical 343 diamond has a wide front 3, with both wingers staying outside the opposition fullbacks in the wide lanes , unless arriving in the box for a far post cross.

Yeah, I was using the narrow 3 just to get the formation on FM to show a front 3-4-3 instead of a 3-3-3-1. Not sure how Pep would line it out, I'm only going off a quote. 

[alinp]

On 10/08/2022 at 19:26, Kloppy said:

Yeah, I was using the narrow 3 just to get the formation on FM to show a front 3-4-3 instead of a 3-3-3-1. Not sure how Pep would line it out, I'm only going off a quote. 

Essentially, I believe, what he’s looking to create would be something akin to to a Cruyff diamond formation. I understand he did similar when he coached the u16’s, when he had Trent at the 6 and Woodburn as the 10.

Agree with other comments that wide forwards would still be wide, but with likely overlapping 8’s as they cut in.

[The3points]

How would Darwin Nunez fit into these? AF? It seemed like Mane was an AF at the back end of last season, or maybe PF-A, although I don't watch Liverpool too much

[Kloppy]

8 hours ago, The3points said:

How would Darwin Nunez fit into these? AF? It seemed like Mane was an AF at the back end of last season, or maybe PF-A, although I don't watch Liverpool too much

Yeah haven’t seen Darwin enough to say for certain but he is playing similar enough I feel to Sadio was for the last few months when he was playing as the 9. AF could be good, Darwin seems to be the vocal point alongside Mo, with play directing towards him. I’ll try find a passing map when on lunch to post so we can see if it can be replicated on FM22 and what role it takes to achieve his average position etc.

[ElJefe4]

A change of shape for the Reds tonight after a poor start to the season. 

Will probably re-watch the match tomorrow with more of an eye on the tactical side but a few key points that were immediately evident were:

- Double pivot in midfield (Henderson and Thiago) rather than a 6 and two 8s.
- 4 very attacking players (Salah, Diaz, Jota, Nunez).
- Could call it 4231, 442, 424.
- Nunez as more of a focal point but with license to drift into wide areas.
- Trent much deeper and wider, less movements into high and narrow positions.
- Tsimikas often much higher and wider on left hand side.

 

The tweet above shows some of the shape.

Will be interesting to see if we stick with it. I'd like to see more of it, given the forward players at our disposal and (perhaps more importantly) lack of midfielders suited to playing in a 3.

If we do it's definitely something I'll be taking a look at recreating in FM23.

[Kloppy]

1 hour ago, ElJefe4 said:

A change of shape for the Reds tonight after a poor start to the season. 

Will probably re-watch the match tomorrow with more of an eye on the tactical side but a few key points that were immediately evident were:

- Double pivot in midfield (Henderson and Thiago) rather than a 6 and two 8s.
- 4 very attacking players (Salah, Diaz, Jota, Nunez).
- Could call it 4231, 442, 424.
- Nunez as more of a focal point but with license to drift into wide areas.
- Trent much deeper and wider, less movements into high and narrow positions.
- Tsimikas often much higher and wider on left hand side.

 

The tweet above shows some of the shape.

Will be interesting to see if we stick with it. I'd like to see more of it, given the forward players at our disposal and (perhaps more importantly) lack of midfielders suited to playing in a 3.

If we do it's definitely something I'll be taking a look at recreating in FM23.

Little bit similar to Man City in some way, with the front 5 and two players infront of the centre half’s? I missed the game due to work but we needed some change, our tactics not as successful in RL than FM lately lol. I’ll try a replication on FM on Friday and post what I think if anyone is interested. If anyone has any articles they would like to post in also, would be great. Thanks for the contribution yet again @ElJefe4

[ElJefe4]

Downloaded the transfer update as I wanted to try this out with Darwin as a proper #9.

Threw something together pretty quickly tonight and skipped through to the first pre season match just to see it in game.

Need to look more into movements and defensive positioning tomorrow but early signs look promising.

You can probably all figure out which players are missing but just for clarity, from the above screenshot to the Rangers match the changes would be:

Kelleher = Alisson
Konate = Matip
Arthur = Henderson
Keita = Thiago
Jones = Diaz
Carvalho = Jota

[Kloppy]

12 minutes ago, ElJefe4 said:

Downloaded the transfer update as I wanted to try this out with Darwin as a proper #9.

Threw something together pretty quickly tonight and skipped through to the first pre season match just to see it in game.

Need to look more into movements and defensive positioning tomorrow but early signs look promising.

You can probably all figure out which players are missing but just for clarity, from the above screenshot to the Rangers match the changes would be:

Kelleher = Alisson
Konate = Matip
Arthur = Henderson
Keita = Thiago
Jones = Diaz
Carvalho = Jota

Wow that looks great. If you can go to the first league game and grab a passing map that would be great (pre season analysis seems funky). Love to compare to the Rangers game passing map. Was the football good in the FM game?

[retrodude09]

4 hours ago, ElJefe4 said:

Downloaded the transfer update as I wanted to try this out with Darwin as a proper #9.

Threw something together pretty quickly tonight and skipped through to the first pre season match just to see it in game.

Need to look more into movements and defensive positioning tomorrow but early signs look promising.

You can probably all figure out which players are missing but just for clarity, from the above screenshot to the Rangers match the changes would be:

Kelleher = Alisson
Konate = Matip
Arthur = Henderson
Keita = Thiago
Jones = Diaz
Carvalho = Jota

This looks great! Given the PPM's of TAA, I'm surprised you've managed to get him sitting so deep.

Is his out of a 4-2-3-1? 

[halfspace3000]

 

This is my interpretation of Klopp tactics last night, my main goal was to create the clear double pivot( Thiago and Hendo) with Trent sitting deep and Virgil going wide to create a back 3

Another thing i was wanted to create was the 5 attackers on the same horizontal line (Tsimikas pushing very high and wide)

 

This is exactly what i wanted to see ( 3-2-5 buildup)

 

Brilliant start to the season

[Kloppy]

1 hour ago, halfspace3000 said:

 

This is my interpretation of Klopp tactics last night, my main goal was to create the clear double pivot( Thiago and Hendo) with Trent sitting deep and Virgil going wide to create a back 3

Another thing i was wanted to create was the 5 attackers on the same horizontal line (Tsimikas pushing very high and wide)

 

This is exactly what i wanted to see ( 3-2-5 buildup)

 

Brilliant start to the season

Fantastic. Good job

[ElJefe4]

15 hours ago, Kloppy said:

Wow that looks great. If you can go to the first league game and grab a passing map that would be great (pre season analysis seems funky). Love to compare to the Rangers game passing map. Was the football good in the FM game?

I'll try to get up to there tonight. Do you have any good resources for passing maps, average positions etc? I struggle to find them.

10 hours ago, retrodude09 said:

This looks great! Given the PPM's of TAA, I'm surprised you've managed to get him sitting so deep.

Is his out of a 4-2-3-1? 

Pretty much. It's a 4231 with the AMC and ST offset. Carvalho (AMC) nudged one notch right of centre and Nunez the same but to the left. 

Logic was that it'd make it easier to press in a 442.

[retrodude09]

4 minutes ago, ElJefe4 said:

I'll try to get up to there tonight. Do you have any good resources for passing maps, average positions etc? I struggle to find them.

Pretty much. It's a 4231 with the AMC and ST offset. Carvalho (AMC) nudged one notch right of centre and Nunez the same but to the left. 

Logic was that it'd make it easier to press in a 442.

How have you got Trent to sit so deep? FB - Defend? 

Would love to see this as it's a shape I've been trying to create for a while now out of a 4-2-3-1 but I've had no joy.

[ElJefe4]

1 minute ago, retrodude09 said:

How have you got Trent to sit so deep? FB - Defend? 

Would love to see this as it's a shape I've been trying to create for a while now out of a 4-2-3-1 but I've had no joy.

I went with FB (S) with PIs of Hold Position, Cross More Often and Take More Risks.

To be honest, I need to watch more of it before I can confirm that the above is exactly what we're looking for as the average positions/passing maps still have him pretty high and wide. I don't actually have a major issue with that being the case because if we're dominating the ball in the opposition half it makes sense for him to progress into a more attacking position. All I'm saying is don't take it as gospel just yet! I'm sure I'll be making plenty more tweaks.

[ElJefe4]

Liverpool 1-0 Manchester City: Mini Analysis

This is my first 'proper' game trying this tactic out. Far from the spectacular results that @halfspace3000 has had early on but a few things I noticed while watching on comprehensive highlights we're definitely worth pointing out as I try to develop this tactic.

We lined up in an asymmetric 4231 against City's tried and trusted 433.

Let's start with the only goal of the game, it's a lengthy gif so I've had to split it into two. As I've been typing this I've realised I've actually got to do a double post as it'll exceed the max size for media.

 

The 442 High Press:

I absolutely loved this goal for a number of reasons. For a start, we see the high press in action which forces Man City to go long.

- Nunez and Jota lead the press; High enough to spring onto City's centre backs when they receive the ball and close enough together to effectively take Rodri (16) out of the game.
- Salah and Diaz; Block off passing lanes to both City full backs, meaning the only option is to take big risks by playing through our compact centre, or go long.
- Fabinho and Thiago; Back up the 'front 4' and make it difficult for City to pass into KdB or Gundogan.
- Back 4; Push high to limit space in between the lines. The risk here of course is if City are able to drop a ball over Matip's head, or if was to lose an aerial battle with Haaland. In this case we force a long ball which Virgil deals with.

Edited October 6, 2022 by ElJefe4