Replicating Jurgen Klopp's Liverpool - 2021/22

[ElJefe4]

 

The 325 Build Up:

 

- Virgil, Matip and Trent; Form a back 3 with Matip slightly deeper.
- Fabinho and Thiago; Double pivot provides passing options in the lanes between City's front 3 should they choose to engage our back 3.
- Robertson; As soon as possession is secured he takes off down the left to form a line of 5 in attack.
- Overload left; Not necessarily by design but a perk of the fluidity of the system. We move the ball right to Trent but a combination of Robertson's run, the positioning of Diaz and Nunez moving into channels give us an overload on the far side. 
- Trent's passing range; trademark cross field pass from a deeper position by Trent turns City's defence and puts us properly on the offensive.
- Jota and Nunez; After Thiago backs up the play I love how Jota and Nunez get close together in and around the box and link up nicely.
- The finish; Speaks for itself!

 

Beating City's High Press:

Having 4 attacking players give us a lot of options. If teams choose to sit off, we can form the 325 and let Thiago and Fabinho control the midfield. If teams choose to press high, having 4 genuine attackers on the pitch means they're taking a huge risk.

Here, we bypass City's press with incredible ease.

Yes, that is Konate and RB and Henderson and Milner on the wings, we picked up a few knocks and didn't have many options from the bench!

City seem to have set up fairly well here in terms of stopping us from building up through our preferred method (Thiago and Fabinho). However, in order to do that they've had to go 4 vs 4 at the back. As a result, Matip is able to find Henderson with a direct pass.

The skipper is able to get on the half turn and now we take advantage of City going man for man at the back. There's acres of space for Henderson to knock a pass into and a more than willing runner in Darwin.

He gets clean through and buries his chance. Unfortunately, he was a fraction offside and the goal is ruled out.

[ElJefe4]

Controlling the ball vs Controlling the space:

City completed over 200 more passes than us over the 90 mins, but as you can see below, we prevented them from progressing up the pitch very effectively.

 

As a result, City were forced long far more than you would normally see, allowing us to recover possession in the middle/defensive third with relative ease.

Unfortunately the aforementioned injuries meant that I didn't get to see as much from our forwards as I would have liked, but we racked up a decent 18 shots, 9 on target, 1 CCC, 5 half chances, an xG of 1.83 all while limiting City to 5 shots and just to 2 on target.

I'll look into patterns of play more in future and if there's any interest would be more than happy to share more videos/pictures of what we produce. 

[halfspace3000]

33 minutes ago, ElJefe4 said:

Liverpool 1-0 Manchester City: Mini Analysis

This is my first 'proper' game trying this tactic out. Far from the spectacular results that @halfspace3000 has had early on but a few things I noticed while watching on comprehensive highlights we're definitely worth pointing out as I try to develop this tactic.

We lined up in an asymmetric 4231 against City's tried and trusted 433.

Let's start with the only goal of the game, it's a lengthy gif so I've had to split it into two. As I've been typing this I've realised I've actually got to do a double post as it'll exceed the max size for media.

 

The 442 High Press:

I absolutely loved this goal for a number of reasons. For a start, we see the high press in action which forces Man City to go long.

- Nunez and Jota lead the press; High enough to spring onto City's centre backs when they receive the ball and close enough together to effectively take Rodri (16) out of the game.
- Salah and Diaz; Block off passing lanes to both City full backs, meaning the only option is to take big risks by playing through our compact centre, or go long.
- Fabinho and Thiago; Back up the 'front 4' and make it difficult for City to pass into KdB or Gundogan.
- Back 4; Push high to limit space in between the lines. The risk here of course is if City are able to drop a ball over Matip's head, or if was to lose an aerial battle with Haaland. In this case we force a long ball which Virgil deals with.

Superb analysis again, looking forward to seeing more

 

[Kloppy]

On 05/10/2022 at 16:59, ElJefe4 said:

I'll try to get up to there tonight. Do you have any good resources for passing maps, average positions etc? I struggle to find them.

not too sure on websites but twitter is very good at times. this also https://www.holdingmidfield.com/case-study-liverpool-2-0-rangers-4-10-2022-jurgen-klopp-giovanni-van-bronckhorst-tactics-tactical-analysis/ and 

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by Kloppy

[ta11zx]

On 05/10/2022 at 20:08, ElJefe4 said:

 

The 325 Build Up:

 

- Virgil, Matip and Trent; Form a back 3 with Matip slightly deeper.
- Fabinho and Thiago; Double pivot provides passing options in the lanes between City's front 3 should they choose to engage our back 3.
- Robertson; As soon as possession is secured he takes off down the left to form a line of 5 in attack.
- Overload left; Not necessarily by design but a perk of the fluidity of the system. We move the ball right to Trent but a combination of Robertson's run, the positioning of Diaz and Nunez moving into channels give us an overload on the far side. 
- Trent's passing range; trademark cross field pass from a deeper position by Trent turns City's defence and puts us properly on the offensive.
- Jota and Nunez; After Thiago backs up the play I love how Jota and Nunez get close together in and around the box and link up nicely.
- The finish; Speaks for itself!

 

Beating City's High Press:

Having 4 attacking players give us a lot of options. If teams choose to sit off, we can form the 325 and let Thiago and Fabinho control the midfield. If teams choose to press high, having 4 genuine attackers on the pitch means they're taking a huge risk.

Here, we bypass City's press with incredible ease.

Yes, that is Konate and RB and Henderson and Milner on the wings, we picked up a few knocks and didn't have many options from the bench!

City seem to have set up fairly well here in terms of stopping us from building up through our preferred method (Thiago and Fabinho). However, in order to do that they've had to go 4 vs 4 at the back. As a result, Matip is able to find Henderson with a direct pass.

The skipper is able to get on the half turn and now we take advantage of City going man for man at the back. There's acres of space for Henderson to knock a pass into and a more than willing runner in Darwin.

He gets clean through and buries his chance. Unfortunately, he was a fraction offside and the goal is ruled out.

send the tactic bud dont keep us waiting.

[Jorgejesusfan]

On 6.10.2022 at 03:08, ElJefe4 said:

 

The 325 Build Up:

 

- Virgil, Matip and Trent; Form a back 3 with Matip slightly deeper.
- Fabinho and Thiago; Double pivot provides passing options in the lanes between City's front 3 should they choose to engage our back 3.
- Robertson; As soon as possession is secured he takes off down the left to form a line of 5 in attack.
- Overload left; Not necessarily by design but a perk of the fluidity of the system. We move the ball right to Trent but a combination of Robertson's run, the positioning of Diaz and Nunez moving into channels give us an overload on the far side. 
- Trent's passing range; trademark cross field pass from a deeper position by Trent turns City's defence and puts us properly on the offensive.
- Jota and Nunez; After Thiago backs up the play I love how Jota and Nunez get close together in and around the box and link up nicely.
- The finish; Speaks for itself!

 

Beating City's High Press:

Having 4 attacking players give us a lot of options. If teams choose to sit off, we can form the 325 and let Thiago and Fabinho control the midfield. If teams choose to press high, having 4 genuine attackers on the pitch means they're taking a huge risk.

Here, we bypass City's press with incredible ease.

Yes, that is Konate and RB and Henderson and Milner on the wings, we picked up a few knocks and didn't have many options from the bench!

City seem to have set up fairly well here in terms of stopping us from building up through our preferred method (Thiago and Fabinho). However, in order to do that they've had to go 4 vs 4 at the back. As a result, Matip is able to find Henderson with a direct pass.

The skipper is able to get on the half turn and now we take advantage of City going man for man at the back. There's acres of space for Henderson to knock a pass into and a more than willing runner in Darwin.

He gets clean through and buries his chance. Unfortunately, he was a fraction offside and the goal is ruled out.

Tactic please

[ElJefe4]

To those asking, I've literally only played a couple of games in this save so the tactic isn't anywhere near ready yet. I hope to get a bit more time to test it out soon, once I do I'll happily share whatever I settle on.

[alinp]

1 hour ago, ElJefe4 said:

To those asking, I've literally only played a couple of games in this save so the tactic isn't anywhere near ready yet. I hope to get a bit more time to test it out soon, once I do I'll happily share whatever I settle on.

I wouldn't worry about it.  It's interesting to see how you deal with different challenges - and what works for you may not work for everyone.

[ElJefe4]

https://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/can-liverpool-front-three-of-salah-gakpo-and-nunez-fire-them-to-top-four/207822

Anyone have any thoughts on how to implement this in FM23? Looks very flexible, Gakpo dropping very deep from his starting position. Salah and Nunez starting wide but at times looking like a front 2.

Starting point would probably be a 433 with a False 9 and maybe a Mezzala or Central Midfielder on Attack in the MCR position? And then Inside Forwards on Attack told to Sit Narrower?

I'm not sure if that would actually be able to replicate having Nunez and Salah as high and central as they are on the picture on the link I posted. 

[ElJefe4]

First attempt:

As you can tell by the numbers this is a pre-season game so there are some square pegs in round holes (Gomez at left back), but some promising signs.

Sam McGuire writes in the above article "The decision to have them [Salah and Nunez] tuck inside essentially pins the opposition’s back four."

In the above screenshot we can see how Salah and Diaz have achieved this. Firmino drops deep occupying the opposition #6, leaving Thiago as the free man.

Edited March 7, 2023 by ElJefe4

[lowjohn92]

Maybe use 3 skrikers for example 

Nunez(PF-A) - Gakpo(F9-S) - Salah(AF-A)

Edited March 12, 2023 by johnthuresson

[retrodude09]

I always wondered if a 4-3-1-2 was in fact the best way to replicate Liverpool under Klopp when using a False 9. Perhaps something like the following:

 

CF (A) - CF (A)

AM (S)

BBM (S) - CM (D) - Mez (S)

WB (S) - BPD (D) - BPD (D) - WB(S)

SK (S)

Obviously you could argue about some of the roles & duties but I think that would probably get you close to the shape you want.

[vrig]

6 hours ago, retrodude09 said:

I always wondered if a 4-3-1-2 was in fact the best way to replicate Liverpool under Klopp when using a False 9. Perhaps something like the following:

 

CF (A) - CF (A)

AM (S)

BBM (S) - CM (D) - Mez (S)

WB (S) - BPD (D) - BPD (D) - WB(S)

SK (S)

Obviously you could argue about some of the roles & duties but I think that would probably get you close to the shape you want.

I agree. Liverpool always looked more like a a narrow system to me, particularly with how the front 3 press and the dependence on the fullbacks. 

I'd change up the roles a bit, but a diamond or diamond-ish shape is how I'd go about recreating it personally.

[Kloppy]

Good stuff @ElJefe4 I will have to give it a go

[trym.jorg]

have any of. you had any luck recreating a loc tactic, and had Salah score a lot?

 

[Kloppy]

On 07/04/2023 at 19:44, trym.jorg said:

have any of. you had any luck recreating a loc tactic, and had Salah score a lot?

 

Salah will score goals as an IF(A) pretty much automatically. The rest wont matter too much, but follow the tactics posted in the thread such as having a F9 beside him to help even more

[lowjohn92]

Was klopp trying to do a little Pep-esque formation against Arsenal, with trent and fabinho as a double pivot like stones and rodri and with robertson staying back a bit more. Could also notice that jones and hederson moved a bit more further up the pitch. 

In my tactics i cant get trent to be so central unfortunately, does someone has any ideas on the tactic against Arsenal?

[Kloppy]

On 12/04/2023 at 14:24, johnthuresson said:

Was klopp trying to do a little Pep-esque formation against Arsenal, with trent and fabinho as a double pivot like stones and rodri and with robertson staying back a bit more. Could also notice that jones and hederson moved a bit more further up the pitch. 

In my tactics i cant get trent to be so central unfortunately, does someone has any ideas on the tactic against Arsenal?

I was using

 

--------------SK(S)------------------

--WCB(S)-BPD(D)-BPD(D)----

---------DM(D)--DM(D)----------

---IF(A)--AM(S)-(AM(S)--IF(A)-

-----------------CF(S)---------------

 

 

Trent as the DM(D)

[ElJefe4]

On 12/04/2023 at 14:24, johnthuresson said:

Was klopp trying to do a little Pep-esque formation against Arsenal, with trent and fabinho as a double pivot like stones and rodri and with robertson staying back a bit more. Could also notice that jones and hederson moved a bit more further up the pitch. 

In my tactics i cant get trent to be so central unfortunately, does someone has any ideas on the tactic against Arsenal?

Was even more evident again tonight vs Leeds.

As you say, unfortunately it is very difficult to get a full back to invert as often as Trent did tonight.

I'm reluctant to use a back 3 formation with no wing backs as opposition AML/AMRs have always killed me. 

I think the only thing I haven't tried is setting up in a 3-2 (i.e. 3 CBs and 2 DMs, as @Kloppy mentioned above) and using player instructions for one of the DMs to mark the opposition AML/AMR out of possession. In our case it would be starting Trent in the DMCR slot and using a PI of Mark Position - AML. Probably wouldn't work in-game but its the only way I can think of getting Trent as central as he was tonight while we have possession. Start him there and then ask him to drop into a RB area out of possession. Carragher was making the point tonight on MNF that we might have to start referring to these formations as the shapes that we most frequently see (2-3-?, 3-2-?), rather than the base 4-3-3, given that these sides are in possession far more than they are actually in their defensive set up.

Hopefully it's something SI look into for FM24 as it is becoming more and more common in real life. So many top teams are using massively different shapes in and out of possession. 

[Kloppy]

This could be a plan. RCB is to stay wide, and RDM is to man-mark the opposition's left winger. Salah to stay wide to offer a right-side outlet and the two midfielders to push forward to create that 5 man front line. Fabinho to slot in to create a more flat back 4 when needed.

 

 

[Kloppy]

 

3 games in,

 

5-0 

3-0

1-0

 

Good football is being played.....trying to play like Jūrgens boys have played the last few months (with a bit more consistency

[DBurns]

I have managed to get the 3-2-5 attacking shape with the RB inverting (albeit with a LCB rather than a LB) but unfortunately cant get Trent anywhere close to his passing numbers IRL.

As you can see, this was a heavily rotated team but you can see Ramsay's positioning alongside Henderson, typically Trent beside Fabinho with wide wingers, the two 8's in the half spaces either side of the CF.

I have recruited quite heavily, bringing in Todibo & Gvardiol to replace Matip & Tsimikas in defence, Caicedo & Bellingham in midfield as well Mac Allister and also Alex Balde who was available for £14m and while I dont play with an attacking LB, was too good to turn down and has been Salah's backup on the RW. Have used Bajcetic as Trent's backup usually. Usually would play with AMR/L but Southampton wing backs were causing trouble so dropped Doak and Balde back a touch.

Anyone any ideas on getting Trent even more involved, feel free to advise. I have him set as IWB support, more direct passing and take more risks. In fairness, a lot of times he plays the pre assist and so doesnt get credited with anything in FM.

[Kloppy]

Move him to DM maybe?

DLP (D) or DLP (S)?

Get Konate as a WCB to try cover or tell TAA to tight mark opp left winger so he gets back into position plenty.

 

 

[wicckkjoe]

Interesting thread... I may comment further, although I'll probably experiment with your set-up before hand. 

[Mutumba]

On 15/06/2023 at 22:32, Kloppy said:

 

3 games in,

 

5-0 

3-0

1-0

 

Good football is being played.....trying to play like Jūrgens boys have played the last few months (with a bit more consistency

Any PI?

[Kloppy]

On 02/07/2023 at 19:10, Mutumba said:

Any PI?

Sorry was away on a work trip.

No PI's as of yet, was just experimenting with the shape.