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My players are not running behind the defense.


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My offensive players and my two midfielders never go into the spaces and go behind the opposing defense. Even the midfielder with the worst attacking attributes of my opponent suddenly runs behind my defense during the match. What could be the problem?

This is my tactic;

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Edited by ObeLisk
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It looks like your BBM and MEZ are running into the same spaces your IF's are running in. 

It will cause confusion. I had the same issue with my MEZ-A and IF-A. When I looked on comprehensive highlights, I saw my MEZ running into the space where my IF was and they both stopped running and neither attacked that space behind the opponents defense. 

When playing IF's, I want my central midfielders to feed them balls to run into the final third and creating chances. Also maintaining the balance between the DLP and attackers. 

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5 dakika önce, Brian said:

It looks like your BBM and MEZ are running into the same spaces your IF's are running in. 

It will cause confusion. I had the same issue with my MEZ-A and IF-A. When I looked on comprehensive highlights, I saw my MEZ running into the space where my IF was and they both stopped running and neither attacked that space behind the opponents defense. 

When playing IF's, I want my central midfielders to feed them balls to run into the final third and creating chances. Also maintaining the balance between the DLP and attackers. 

Both of them are running to the same area, but as you said, they both stop running after a while. In the next game, I will change the roles of my midfielders.

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1 dakika önce, DarJ said:

There's no attack duty up front. Try increasing the team mentality

Zaniolo? My aim is to get Gabriel Jesus to come to the midfield and create space and to run Zaniolo into the space.

I'm sorry if there are mistakes in my sentences. I am writing from the translation.

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2 minutes ago, ObeLisk said:

Zaniolo? My aim is to get Gabriel Jesus to come to the midfield and create space and to run Zaniolo into the space.

I understand that however, it's going to depend on other things that are going on. I personally will play Barella on the left as a CM on attack and play the BBM on the left that way you have 2 players running beyond the striker from both sides

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1 dakika önce, DarJ said:

I understand that however, it's going to depend on other things that are going on. I personally will play Barella on the left as a CM on attack and play the BBM on the left that way you have 2 players running beyond the striker from both sides

I will try.

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I would try a couple of things;

- remove work ball in box, although I read that you already tried that
- remove pass into space, don't use it all the time, but incidental
- swap the BBM and MEZ and put the MEZ on attacking and change IFsu to IWsu
- use standard LOE, because you'll need to create space where your players can run into

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I think maybe you should use a winger because no one is "feeding" them , two ifs isn't something that will work, only Rice has this role currently and it's risky to serve them from that deep, though he should in general. Also maybe the opponents have a very deep defensive line and there is no space? I also use a deep line and very rarely I see players behind my defence. Do you counter or keep shape?

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18 minutes ago, Poison said:

I think maybe you should use a winger because no one is "feeding" them , two ifs isn't something that will work, only Rice has this role currently and it's risky to serve them from that deep, though he should in general. Also maybe the opponents have a very deep defensive line and there is no space? I also use a deep line and very rarely I see players behind my defence. Do you counter or keep shape?

Two IFs can absolutely work if the rest of the team is set up correctly. The problem is that OP's team is not set up correctly.

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1 minute ago, Sneaky Pete said:

Two IFs can absolutely work if the rest of the team is set up correctly. The problem is that OP's team is not set up correctly.

I have misspoken, Two IF's can of course work, but it doesn't seem optimal in my eyes. A Winger will leave more space to be exploited by the central midfielders and switch the ball to an if to the other flank in a good attacking position. I'll admit i have no idea how to set a team with two ifs up.

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1 saat önce, Poison said:

I think maybe you should use a winger because no one is "feeding" them , two ifs isn't something that will work, only Rice has this role currently and it's risky to serve them from that deep, though he should in general. Also maybe the opponents have a very deep defensive line and there is no space? I also use a deep line and very rarely I see players behind my defence. Do you counter or keep shape?

Counter

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On 08/01/2022 at 17:50, Sneaky Pete said:

Two IFs can absolutely work if the rest of the team is set up correctly. The problem is that OP's team is not set up correctly.

...well don't stop there!

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On 05/01/2022 at 09:48, ObeLisk said:

My offensive players and my two midfielders never go into the spaces and go behind the opposing defense. Even the midfielder with the worst attacking attributes of my opponent suddenly runs behind my defense during the match. What could be the problem?

It looks like you're in first place, why do you want to change things up? 

Have you tried underlaps? It will have your wide players look for runs in the middle. 

Also whipped crosses probably isn't helping. I've had lots of success with low crosses. 

Side note: You have 4 really aggressive roles all attacking the same space in the field which is probably making everything cramped. You could try the carriello role instead of the mezzala and a ball winning midfielder or DLP or AP instead of BBM. Then you could also make Robertson an attack duty to provide different levels of depth. 

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16 saat önce, prched55 said:

It looks like you're in first place, why do you want to change things up? 

Have you tried underlaps? It will have your wide players look for runs in the middle. 

Also whipped crosses probably isn't helping. I've had lots of success with low crosses. 

Side note: You have 4 really aggressive roles all attacking the same space in the field which is probably making everything cramped. You could try the carriello role instead of the mezzala and a ball winning midfielder or DLP or AP instead of BBM. Then you could also make Robertson an attack duty to provide different levels of depth. 

It bothered me that my players didn't run behind the defense. Even my opponent's worst player does this against me.

Does that mean underlap? As far as I know, this instruction is for the wide player to look for a player running inside the centre, holding the ball at their feet.

I will try this. Many of the crosses made already hit the opponent and come back.

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7 hours ago, ObeLisk said:

Does that mean underlap? As far as I know, this instruction is for the wide player to look for a player running inside the centre, holding the ball at their feet.

Yes. The underlap. It also increases the mentality of your Fullbacks. The reason I say add it in is because you have inside forwards, mezzala, and BBM who are all making those runs in the middle of the field. It should also close the gap between your wide forwards and fullbacks as well which should hopefully stop the crossing into the defender thing a bit. 

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1 saat önce, Bakiano said:

In your second season, you have all these players? How is that even possible?

I never pay the transfer fees completely in cash, I always pay in 12 monthly installments and bonuses. You can easily build a good squad by trading players. You just buy and sell. They want to be transferred after the players haven't played for a while. For example, I bought Belotti, but I didn't play it much and he wanted to go to another team, so I sold it.

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On 10/01/2022 at 15:12, Prolix said:

...well don't stop there!

It's not horribly wrong, but there's an unfortunate mix of square pegs in round holes (players with roles that don't suit their stats + PPMs) and incoherent tactical instructions:

1. Pressing high, hard, and trying to prevent short GK distribution, but "pass into space" and "counter" both ticked. Against 90% of teams this is just a recipe for giving the ball away, as OP will already have them pinned deep in their own half.

2. Two IFs, but a midfield that frankly has poor creativity and counterproductive PPMs. Barella is an elite player and can to some extent create, but his PPMs don't encourage it. McKennie is a runner through-and-through. Rice is very much a holding player and generally not someone that will provide assists. Both McKennie and Barella are going to end up in the box more often than not at the end of moves, leaving nobody other than Rice to recycle possession and attempt through balls.

3. The Mez-IF combo on the right could work - I like the combination of outside-in and inside-out movement - but it's ignoring the player PPMs. Ideally what you want to see here is the IF moving inside and the Mez moving outside... but Barella has "Gets Forward Whenever Possible" and so is going to end up fighting Zaniolo for space in the channel more often than not. When he doesn't end up fighting him for space in the channel, he's occupying the same space as the WBs.

Ultimately the only thing that I really don't like about OPs setup is the Mez + WB combination and some of the superfluous/actively self-sabotaging TIs. The rest is down to building a squad that doesn't suit the setup OP is trying to run. For reference, this is my own setup with Juventus:

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You'll see that OP and I run fairly similar systems in a lot of ways, with a few key differences:

- A runner from deep in Szoboszlai that actively underlaps Kulusevski, who is primarily a creative player, but will also drift outside when Kulusevski drifts into the channel.

- An IWBs rather than a WBs. He occupies the space vacated by the Mez, and drifts wide if nobody else is providing width.

- A BBM in Locatelli that can drift into the area late, but primarily hangs around the top of the box, and comes deep to receive the ball in build-up.

- A DLPd in Guimaraes who despite his role has a very creative set of attributes and PPMs, meaning he will occasionally ping a long ball to my forwards.

- Actual space for forwards to run into because I'm not trying to strangle the opposition in their own area.

The only real misfit in this setup is Chiesa, whose "Hugs Line" PPM is both a blessing and a curse. I'd like him to make more diagonal runs at goal, but he does stretch play and is fast enough that his runs are quite dangerous regardless.

Edited by Sneaky Pete
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2 hours ago, ObeLisk said:

I never pay the transfer fees completely in cash, I always pay in 12 monthly installments and bonuses. You can easily build a good squad by trading players. You just buy and sell. They want to be transferred after the players haven't played for a while. For example, I bought Belotti, but I didn't play it much and he wanted to go to another team, so I sold it.

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Nope. Just dont believe it. I am using the same methods for buying players but you have in your second season 300mil budget.

 

Smells like some budget editing with in-game transfer.

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13 dakika önce, Bakiano said:

Nope. Just dont believe it. I am using the same methods for buying players but you have in your second season 300mil budget.

 

Smells like some budget editing with in-game transfer.

I didn't give any player full cash. Whether it's Camavinga, Bastoni etc. I gave all of them around 15-20 million euros in cash, and I divided the rest into installments, so I will pay them in the coming years. I only use the in-game editor when looking at the potentials of the players. It's up to you to believe or not :) As soon as I started my career, I had a budget of around 40-50 million euros, and when I became the champion, the budget for my next season increased even more. In my last season, due to the fact that I transferred too many installments, the management reduced the percentage of income from the transfer. If they hadn't done that, I might have had even more money.

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19 hours ago, ObeLisk said:

I never pay the transfer fees completely in cash, I always pay in 12 monthly installments and bonuses. You can easily build a good squad by trading players. You just buy and sell. They want to be transferred after the players haven't played for a while. For example, I bought Belotti, but I didn't play it much and he wanted to go to another team, so I sold it.

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Am I the only one who really hates paying in terms for a player. When you don't have the cash, don't spend it. :brock:

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18 hours ago, Sneaky Pete said:

It's not horribly wrong, but there's an unfortunate mix of square pegs in round holes (players with roles that don't suit their stats + PPMs) and incoherent tactical instructions:

1. Pressing high, hard, and trying to prevent short GK distribution, but "pass into space" and "counter" both ticked. Against 90% of teams this is just a recipe for giving the ball away, as OP will already have them pinned deep in their own half.

2. Two IFs, but a midfield that frankly has poor creativity and counterproductive PPMs. Barella is an elite player and can to some extent create, but his PPMs don't encourage it. McKennie is a runner through-and-through. Rice is very much a holding player and generally not someone that will provide assists. Both McKennie and Barella are going to end up in the box more often than not at the end of moves, leaving nobody other than Rice to recycle possession and attempt through balls.

3. The Mez-IF combo on the right could work - I like the combination of outside-in and inside-out movement - but it's ignoring the player PPMs. Ideally what you want to see here is the IF moving inside and the Mez moving outside... but Barella has "Gets Forward Whenever Possible" and so is going to end up fighting Zaniolo for space in the channel more often than not. When he doesn't end up fighting him for space in the channel, he's occupying the same space as the WBs.

Ultimately the only thing that I really don't like about OPs setup is the Mez + WB combination and some of the superfluous/actively self-sabotaging TIs. The rest is down to building a squad that doesn't suit the setup OP is trying to run. For reference, this is my own setup with Juventus:

image.png.c0e9758ff940ed255425536d6640eeea.png

You'll see that OP and I run fairly similar systems in a lot of ways, with a few key differences:

- A runner from deep in Szoboszlai that actively underlaps Kulusevski, who is primarily a creative player, but will also drift outside when Kulusevski drifts into the channel.

- An IWBs rather than a WBs. He occupies the space vacated by the Mez, and drifts wide if nobody else is providing width.

- A BBM in Locatelli that can drift into the area late, but primarily hangs around the top of the box, and comes deep to receive the ball in build-up.

- A DLPd in Guimaraes who despite his role has a very creative set of attributes and PPMs, meaning he will occasionally ping a long ball to my forwards.

- Actual space for forwards to run into because I'm not trying to strangle the opposition in their own area.

The only real misfit in this setup is Chiesa, whose "Hugs Line" PPM is both a blessing and a curse. I'd like him to make more diagonal runs at goal, but he does stretch play and is fast enough that his runs are quite dangerous regardless.

How does your team look in transition?

The IF's and MEZ are on Very Attacking player mentality, with your backs on Positive. Doesn't this create gaps on the wings? 

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On 12/01/2022 at 12:12, Brian said:

How does your team look in transition?

The IF's and MEZ are on Very Attacking player mentality, with your backs on Positive. Doesn't this create gaps on the wings? 

You would think so, but "short passing" and "play out of defence" tends to keep the team quite patient and compact in build-up.

I will occasionally turn the team mentality down to Balanced if I feel like we're being wasteful, though.

Edit: And for what it's worth the issue you're pointing out is kind of unavoidable regardless of mentality. An IWBs will always be two mentality notches below an IWs, regardless of which mentality your team is on. You can prevent your forwards from being too wasteful with the ball, but you don't want the vertical gap you have to somehow counteract it.

Edited by Sneaky Pete
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