Facility improvements that aren't incremental

[Shrewnaldo]

I *think* that the way facility improvements work in-game is that they can only improve one 'rank' at a time, e.g. from 'adequate' to 'average' or from 'good' to 'very good'. But it makes very little sense that a club would only improve facilities a little bit at a time in every instance.

There should be the potential for a club which has gained the financial means and desire to do so, to improve their facilities in multiple increments at one time. Sure, if the club was only improving existing facilities then increments make sense - but clubs often decide to build entirely new facilities on a new location and it makes far more sense for the club to jump to the highest rank they can afford in one go.

[Michael Sant]

@Shrewnaldo how do you envisage this taking place in game then? Would it be through a separate option in the menu such as the Build New Stadium?

Do you also have thoughts about how often this should be possible to request? Many clubs have only really modernised their training set-ups once since around the early 90's with lots of smaller, continued improvements over time since then. There has been a general trend to move towards remote, large open spaces. A lot of clubs at the upper end of the game have already done this even if they're not state of the art facilities in the present time. Would this necessitate perhaps some other things that indicates which clubs have an ideal environment and wouldn't give that up and should therefore be locked into slower growth as the facilities need to remain in use while works are carried out?

[Shrewnaldo]

10 hours ago, Michael Sant said:

@Shrewnaldo how do you envisage this taking place in game then? Would it be through a separate option in the menu such as the Build New Stadium?

Do you also have thoughts about how often this should be possible to request? Many clubs have only really modernised their training set-ups once since around the early 90's with lots of smaller, continued improvements over time since then. There has been a general trend to move towards remote, large open spaces. A lot of clubs at the upper end of the game have already done this even if they're not state of the art facilities in the present time. Would this necessitate perhaps some other things that indicates which clubs have an ideal environment and wouldn't give that up and should therefore be locked into slower growth as the facilities need to remain in use while works are carried out?

Hi Michael, re the first question, I guess it could be done two ways:

1. it could be done similar to the "request affiliate" option? There is one request option within the Club Vision board request dropdown to "improve training facilities". If certain parameters are met (age of existing facilities, finances, reputation, etc) then the board could ask your opinion on whether to improve the existing facilities, or invest a much larger sum in building a new complex
2. As you say, a separate option within the dropdown so that you can either choose "improve existing training facilities", or "build new training complex".

It would also be worth considering whether building the new training complex would simultaneously improve the youth facilities. Thinking of my local club (Aberdeen) who have recently built Cormack Pack, this is now used by the junior teams as well as the senior side. I would expect that most other clubs do the same?

Re the second paragraph - good question. I don't know if the game data has the "build date" of the training facilities in the metadata, in a similar way as it does for the stadia? I know there's a mechanic in-game for hard-up clubs which are forced to sell their training facilities (e.g. Derby in FM22) so something similar for short-term relocation would be possible, I guess? But I assume that most clubs would use their existing facilities whilst they were building a replacement on a new site which, as you say, tend to be in completely new locations, often some distance from the stadium. I don't know what would prevent a club from doing this, other than money and the willingness of the board to invest?

[MiniMe]

I also think this is a great idea, I was about to post about this when I saw this thread and thought I'd add to this.

 

I took a team from the Non-League to the Premier League and struggled to sign decent players and staff due to the facilities the club had. I think an option to build new facilities or upgrade option would be great. Maybe an overhaul of the facilities look.

It might be worth having a facilities tab - where it details the training ground, gym, canteen details and maybe add things like what type of diet the players can have. After hearing things like That Peter Crouch Podcast #PASSTHEPOD and Crouch talking about Capello banning Ketchup, to Arsenal's All or Nothing where Kieran Tierney's personal chef also worked at the Arsenal Canteen providing the dietary needs of the players. So it could be quite good to tailor and control things in the facility tab.

 

So if requesting to upgrade the facilities it could be put in tiers so you could select for example, current facilities is Average - then you can select to upgrade to either Good, Great, Excellent, Superb or State of the Art. then you can enter a board meeting if the board are willing to have a conversation about the option have chosen and if the club can afford to upgrade to the chosen facilities and if unable to the board could recommend the max status they are able to contribute to. 

equally if requesting new facilities the board can push back and say what state the facilities they are willing to commit to.

 

Hope this all makes sense.

 

Stuart 

         

[2feet]

One thing to add:

Improving training facilities I think encourages better players and coaches to come to your club, people who would automatically reject a club for not having a level of facilities acceptable to them.

Players want to fulfil their potential so if a club has training facilities which are too low, then the player wont come because their development will be hindered.

So saving up money with your club for a few seasons, in order to then be able to make a huge leap forward with big improvements to your training facilities, which in turn leads to attracting much better young players and coaches, who can then help your team be more successful, and who can then can later be sold for bigger profits, to help fund further improvements...

This strategy could lead to your club developing and becoming big.

So the multiple step leap improvements could play a part in this to help speed up a clubs development.

[HbG93]

This would be great! Playing with Standard-Liege the board sold the training facilities to handle their debts from real-life. After clearing the debts and making the clubs pockets rich. I still have under par training facilities because I had to build them from the ground up. Increasing from below average to average facilities with over 80 million euros in balance while being the best team in the league and single handily increasing our European spots makes no sense.

I suppose in my case an ability to buyback our previous facilities would also work. But overall just the ability to make bigger improvements when the economy allows it would be healthy overall. It make sense to be able too make bigger improvements from 1 request if the money is there for it. As an example have had youth based saves where it's even in the clubs DNA to focus on our academy, and have plenty of money available yet our infrastructure goes up in small steps. Sitting on cash to improve our setup 3-4 folds of the original improvement only to face a 6ish month waiting period to request further improvements doesn't make sense. 

In situations like this perhaps the board and you have a meeting about how much it should be improved. You could ask from the maximum offered but then perhaps the board could then go "We have reservations about spending this considerable amount due to X Club Vision or recent X financial reasons" then it they could go "We will only upgrade by Y instead of your wished X".

Edited September 20, 2022 by HbG93

[Shrewnaldo]

As an extra suggestion for this - new training complexes, as opposed to improvements to existing facilities, could be named after club legends and icons in much the same way stadia are

[hodge13]

On 24/02/2022 at 01:04, Michael Sant said:

@Shrewnaldo how do you envisage this taking place in game then? Would it be through a separate option in the menu such as the Build New Stadium?

Do you also have thoughts about how often this should be possible to request? Many clubs have only really modernised their training set-ups once since around the early 90's with lots of smaller, continued improvements over time since then. There has been a general trend to move towards remote, large open spaces. A lot of clubs at the upper end of the game have already done this even if they're not state of the art facilities in the present time. Would this necessitate perhaps some other things that indicates which clubs have an ideal environment and wouldn't give that up and should therefore be locked into slower growth as the facilities need to remain in use while works are carried out?

Perhaps could break down departments and give them a scale to allocate resources to? 

Performance Analysis 1, 2, 3, 4, 5

Physiotherapy 1, 2, 3, 4, 5

Sport Science 1, 2, 3, 4, 5

Recruitment Analysis 1, 2, 3, 4, 5

Perhaps if you've allocated enough money to move up a level (or perhaps like scouting budget) it allows you to hire more staff rather than request it, likewise you need to hedge back a bit and move down a level you need to let go off a staff member.

Performance Analysis perhaps upgrading to x level allows you to unlock/hire an opposition analyst, data analyst etc and therefore you get provided more information pre-match only when you have those staff members in place? 

Physiotherapy, as you up the levels perhaps you have access to a pool for recovery sessions, an extra sports therapist. 

Sports Science, perhaps you have a nutritionist (even if not a hireable staff member as it could be tricky to do it, but provides a boost to things like fitness levels, nutrition is now huge in academies as well)

Recruitment Analysis - Perhaps access to a data scientist as you get higher levels. 

The other thing would be as you allocate more resources for higher levels, your wage budget for the roles in those departments then increases. This could allow more specialisation in backroom staff that you want to prioritise, you could have world class analysis facilities but lower league sport science support because you as a manager don't believe in sport science for example. 

This method/something like the scouting budget would allow for a fluid adaption of what you want from a backroom staff. For big level requests like building/upgrading a new analysis/physio room, sports science area etc could then be like it is now, but you can break down which departments you want to upgrade.

[Zachary Whyte]

Thank you for the detailed suggestions.

We will put these under consideration and your ideas could feature in a future FM.