Protecting the channel between CD and FB

[teej9]

I have struggled mightly since the new patch to get any kind of consistency and am trying to understand how to adapt in match to solve problems when they arise. I play a basic 433, trying to play simple and adjust. This is my main tactic :

 

I make changes based on the action. For instance when we are getting pressed hard, off comes play out of defence and maybe pass into space is ticked. If they are sitting back and having too much time on the ball, i'll bump the lines up and press more etc. In a recent match against an objectively bad Valladolid team I could not figure out what to do to stop their LW from getting between my RB and RCD. They oppo player was really poor, low physicals and mentals, did have a decent first touch, but he was just marauding into space and my guys just refused to mark him. I dont see that happen all the time, but man it made what should have been a routine win an absolute slog that we were lucky to escape with a draw. (We saved a pen and they made a massive error at the back that gave us a goal). 

My question is what are some in match things that I can try to help mitigate that issue? Any help is appreciated. I am trying to work through my tactical frustrations  rather than ***** about the ME, which is my admitted default, lol. Thanks.  

Edited December 18, 2021 by teej9

[lfds89]

I don't see anything that is clearly wrong with your setup. Maybe it's about the players... RB and RCB have decent values for aggression, for instance?

About the setup, only thing I can think of is maybe try to move forward the L.E. and D.L. so they engage earlier.

[DarJ]

6 hours ago, teej9 said:

They oppo player was really poor, low physicals and mentals, did have a decent first touch, but he was just marauding into space and my guys just refused to mark him

You could ask your fullback to man mark him.

It may pull him out of position but it's a valuable option

[De Nile]

I think counter press should be the problem if you tell every one to counter press then gaps will appear in front of defence and behind defence you also have to consider that a standard DL and standard LoE offers no vertical compactness makes you more vulnerable gaps in and around the defence. If you want your players to be more aggressive you can use OI's then tell the team through team instructions how urgent they should be and/or push the LoE up so you engage with the play quicker

[nully29]

I had similar problem, this is what has worked for me:

Your DM is anchor man, which is very passive role that holds position. Replace it with any role that does NOT have "hold position" instruction. If DM is not instructed to hold position, he goes wide to mark an incoming winger

Show opponents AML onto left foot, so he will find it harder to come inside

If you use man marking, it can confuse players on the defensive switches. I generally never man mark at the back

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by nully29

[vrig]

Your description sounds like a bit of an isolated incident, and the tactic itself doesn't - to me anyway - look even slightly vulnerable in that area. Obviously, that's presuming the RCB, RB and your BBM are suited to defending that channel.

Is it something that's happening very often, or is there a chance that winger just played the game of his life and your fullback had an off day?

[nully29]

8 hours ago, vrig said:

Your description sounds like a bit of an isolated incident, and the tactic itself doesn't - to me anyway - look even slightly vulnerable in that area. Obviously, that's presuming the RCB, RB and your BBM are suited to defending that channel.

Is it something that's happening very often, or is there a chance that winger just played the game of his life and your fullback had an off day?

It does. The channel is vulnerable if DM is told to Hold position.

[Sharkn20]

I don't see anything too wrong with the tactic, but I'd take "Counter press" out, specially against more technical teams.

In teams that play at the Counter, such as Route 1 or Vertical Tiki-Taka I normally tick re-group to make sure we are in a compact defensive position ASAP.

Maybe give a notch up to the Mentality to "Positive" that would be make your players a little bit more aggressive in defense and more mobile on offense. With teams that set themselves low you want to lower the passing and the tempo a bit, seems counter-intituive but you will generate better quality chances, specially with those 2 midfielders, you should have plenty of out of the area shoots, which in this engine are pretty lethal.

I'd definitely would change the DM to DM - De or BWM - De to have that more bit of aggression in defense. And switch that Left FB - At to WB - At to have more verticality out of him.

But at the end of the day much of your tactic is down to the players, you might just need a better, more rounded players as you go up the ladder. Don't fall in love with them, they all have to be replaced eventually.

Think about start using the AP - At role instead of that CM-Su, to make sure your best player is in control of things, if you decide to make that change though, the tactic will need a couple of modifications to give him more space to operate. I am just in love with that role.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Sharkn20

[WhyMe]

On 20/12/2021 at 05:45, nully29 said:

It does. The channel is vulnerable if DM is told to Hold position.

Hold position is a with the ball instruction, not a defensive one (it instructs the player not to move ahead of the ball and instead stick to his position to protect against counter attacks and the like).  So it wouldn't have any effect in the defensive phase.

That said the anchor man role does tend to sit in front of the centre backs to protect them, rather than go after the ball on the flanks so a switch to a defensive midfield role that is more aggressive in their defending might help if this happens again.

Edited December 24, 2021 by WhyMe
forgot something

[nully29]

18 hours ago, WhyMe said:

Hold position is a with the ball instruction, not a defensive one (it instructs the player not to move ahead of the ball and instead stick to his position to protect against counter attacks and the like).  So it wouldn't have any effect in the defensive phase.

That said the anchor man role does tend to sit in front of the centre backs to protect them, rather than go after the ball on the flanks so a switch to a defensive midfield role that is more aggressive in their defending might help if this happens again.

The issue OP has is that anchor man is too passive on defense. To fix it, he should change his DM to a more aggressive role.

 

Now, regarding whether Hold position instruction does or does not affect DM's tendency to help on the flanks on defense. I have seen it does, albeit I have tried it for one match, which I watched in full, and then dropped it for this very reason. It would also make sense. When DM deliberates whether he should or should not leave his position and go after an opponent winger who runs in with the ball, he should consider whether he's been told to hold his position.

Edited December 25, 2021 by nully29

[(sic)]

1 hour ago, nully29 said:

The issue OP has is that anchor man is too passive on defense. To fix it, he should change his DM to a more aggressive role.

 

Now, regarding whether Hold position instruction does or does not affect DM's tendency to help on the flanks on defense. I have seen it does, albeit I have tried it for one match, which I watched in full, and then dropped it for this very reason. It would also make sense. When DM deliberates whether he should or should not leave his position and go after an opponent winger who runs in with the ball, he should consider whether he's been told to hold his position.

Hold position relates to when your team is in possession.

 

The reason you might see a DM leave his position in defense might be if he's on support duty. With support duty he might take more risks, although I'm not sure if this has any effect on the defensive part either. Closing down more is the more obvious one, The trigger press bar changes when you change from Defense to Support duty. Depending on it, DM might be more willing to leave his position to close down someone.