Question about attacking width

[DarJ]

You often hear managers talk about wanting to use the full width of the pitch when in possession and be compact out of possession, so my question is why is it that in FM almost no one sets width to the maximum? 

[MattyLewis11]

I think most people like to play shorter passing which when you then look to apply maximum width kind of goes against the grain. 

[crusadertsar]

55 minutes ago, MattyLewis11 said:

I think most people like to play shorter passing which when you then look to apply maximum width kind of goes against the grain. 

Exactly.

[nidhar.ram]

You can still play short passes while setting the width to maximum as long as you have enough support in bringing the ball from defense to attack.

The choice of mid-field roles becomes key. If you are fielding a 433; you want your midfield interiors to be able to carry the ball and look for short options and if nothing is viable then continue to dribble their way into the final third or attempt a more direct pass based on his decision making. Roles like RPM, Mez and BBM(to an extend) tend to carry the ball between the lines. So it may be worth experimenting with these roles and see the effect on transition.

I would think the tempo also will be important for this to work. But again, only experimenting can tell if my theories would stand right.  

[bibird.]

It always seems really odd to me that people would suggest shorter passing can't be used with extreme width. As long as you have enough bodies to provide support and create dynamic link up options then you'd be able to do it. Naturally, you need players with good attributes to pull it off as it is an intense way of playing, but find a video on Youtube of that Barcelona 5-0 Real Madrid match from 2010 and you'll see a side using short passing with extreme width.

[Jack722]

16 hours ago, bibird. said:

always seems really odd to me that people would suggest shorter passing can't be used with extreme width

Agreed. I don't think they have any link whatsoever. 

High width:

Forces opposition block to move about more from side to side, tiring out and opening gaps. If the defenders stay in there position then your wide players get loads of space to put in a good cross or dribble 1v1

Low width:

Players closer together, easier to keep hold of ball. Easier defensive transition for a counter press as more players can surround the ball , and for regroup, as they're laterally closer to their defensive positions.

[bibird.]

17 minutes ago, Jack722 said:

High width:

Forces opposition block to move about more from side to side, tiring out and opening gaps. If the defenders stay in there position then your wide players get loads of space to put in a good cross or dribble 1v1

Spot on. This is all part of Pep's style. Move the ball around with short, quick passes, use the full width (and sometimes verticality) of the pitch, open gaps in the centre and profit.

I watched All or Nothing - Man City a few weeks ago and noticed something that was said in one of the episodes. Basically the demand was 1 or 2 touch passes in the centre of the field and half spaces. Once the ball moves to the flank a player may dribble, but only if it's a 1-on-1. If a player is being doubled up on then they look to recycle and keep probing.

Obviously high width can be used with direct passing too, where you'd look to get the ball quickly to wingers that are high and wide, then look to get crosses in for attackers in the centre.

23 minutes ago, Jack722 said:

Low width:

Players closer together, easier to keep hold of ball. Easier defensive transition for a counter press as more players can surround the ball , and for regroup, as they're laterally closer to their defensive positions.

This is definitely more suited to quick breaks, Atletico style. When you think of Simeone's Atleti, they have their extremely compact defensive posture, then counter quickly through link players in central areas. Traditionally he'd use playmaker types on the flanks in Koke and Arda Turan, who are naturally comfortable in central areas, and would look to swiftly move the ball forward to Griezmann, Costa and Torres.

Using shorter passing with narrower width would definitely be a viable strategy for ball retention - Spain's defensive tiki taka used to win the World Cup in 2010 springs to mind. Not a lot of width, a lot of central ball players clustered close together. Joan Capdevila (Jordi Alba in 2012, too) was the main wide outlet as an offensive left wing-back. This is an example of using narrow width, but supplementing it with contrasting roles and duties to facilitate some widthand flexibility to be added to the team.

[vrig]

Maybe it's just me, but I just don't bother with passing length. Why would you want your players to pick the short pass or the long pass, when they can pick the right pass instead?

My go-to instructions for possession styles have always been lower/much lower tempo and dribble less. As the descriptions suggest, that's a starting point for "retaining possession with the intention to preserve control of the game" (lower tempo) and "adopting a pass first mentality" (dribble less).

I find that way more effective for a probing possession game, as players are more likely to play it safe until a gap appears, and then exploit overloads with something a bit more direct.

If I told all my players to pass it short all the time I feel like I'd be forced into roles, traits and instructions to mitigate the side effects. 

[nikolaj760]

3 hours ago, vrig said:

Maybe it's just me, but I just don't bother with passing length. Why would you want your players to pick the short pass or the long pass, when they can pick the right pass instead?

My go-to instructions for possession styles have always been lower/much lower tempo and dribble less. As the descriptions suggest, that's a starting point for "retaining possession with the intention to preserve control of the game" (lower tempo) and "adopting a pass first mentality" (dribble less).

I find that way more effective for a probing possession game, as players are more likely to play it safe until a gap appears, and then exploit overloads with something a bit more direct.

If I told all my players to pass it short all the time I feel like I'd be forced into roles, traits and instructions to mitigate the side effects. 

How is it working in terms of keeping the ball and working it around?

[vrig]

28 minutes ago, nikolaj760 said:

How is it working in terms of keeping the ball and working it around?

Since getting FM22, I've been doing a Rangnick thing so I'm actively trying to get less Possession 

Leaving passing alone has worked out well for me in possession tactics since FM17 though, so I can't imagine it being a problem when I get bored and try something else.

I did have a particularly good save on 21 where I ended up at a relegated Wolves and decided to do a Man City recreation for no reason other than that Jonny made for a decent inverted wingback. That featured maximum width, much lower tempo, Dribble less and a Positive Mentality. 

With the current match engine, I imagine that sort of thing would work very well to balance out high pressing - City often use possession to chill out a bit after smothering any attempt at counters.

This heavy metal football thing I'm doing is great fun, but I'm currently rotating a 30 man squad! Be nice to just hit that space bar a bit in the next save 

[CARRERA]

11 hours ago, vrig said:

Maybe it's just me, but I just don't bother with passing length. Why would you want your players to pick the short pass or the long pass, when they can pick the right pass instead?

A very good argument, just want to add that the passing slider is not really about length, it’s about the directness of a pass (low risk / sideways or high risk / forward).

The length of a pass is primarily determined by the available passing options and their demand.

So key to play short is neither the width or the passing slider, it’s important to have players available around the ball. At best there are vertical/ diagonal options as well as a safe option for a sideways or backwards pass. 

A lower width can compliment that, so that’s properbly why people use it but it’s definitely not a must. 

[Aoyao]

Focusing on the mid,I'll be low width.

flank will get space to run and attck