difference between inside forward and inverted winger in fm22

[chris31k]

Hello,

I'm struggling to see the differences between the two roles in this specific FM. It was pretty clear in FM21 but in fm22 i can't see the difference.

I tested to play the same match twice switching the roles , i watched the matches , the data and i can't see any differences.

I don't know if it's related to the "not cutting inside" known bug , so if someone manage to see clearly a difference, help would be appreciated.

 

 

[Hog]

If you use both on support, inside forwards have 'get further forward' hardcoded. That's one difference.

[plcarlos]

IW is effectively a creator, so should cut inside looking to create chances and maybe score.

IF is effectivley a scorer, so should cut inside looking to sccore and maybe create chances.

Of course, you then need to factor player traits into this:

An IF with "plays killer balls" will try to create more than standard, and an IF who "shoots from distance" might look to score more.

Unfortunately in the FM22 match engine, I've seen both roles move wider and play incorectly due to the bug. I have noticed a bit more correct movement when we play the bigger teams, and there is more space in the middle of the pitch. This is where they seem to move as they should, but seem to need much more space to move into.

Edited November 16, 2021 by plcarlos

[chris31k]

Thanks for the answers.

I believe anyone on the AML/AMR position with these two roles behave weirdly due to the known bug. Hoping SI will fix it shortly

[DarJ]

6 hours ago, plcarlos said:

IW is effectively a creator, so should cut inside looking to create chances and maybe score

While I agree with this, one thing I'm not convinced about is why the IF has the PI "take more risk" locked in and the IW doesn't yet the IW is supposed to be more creative 

[Mitja]

45 minutes ago, DarJ said:

While I agree with this, one thing I'm not convinced about is why the IF has the PI "take more risk" locked in and the IW doesn't yet the IW is supposed to be more creative 

Because "take more risk" is definition of creative role.

[yonko]

8 hours ago, Hog said:

If you use both on support, inside forwards have 'get further forward' hardcoded. That's one difference.

That's new for FM22. Previously IF-S didn't have "get further forward" hardcoded. 

[DarJ]

55 minutes ago, Mitja said:

Because "take more risk" is definition of creative role.

The IW doesn't have it tho

[Zemahh]

12 hours ago, DarJ said:

While I agree with this, one thing I'm not convinced about is why the IF has the PI "take more risk" locked in and the IW doesn't yet the IW is supposed to be more creative 

I'd say IF is a more aggressive creator than IW, hence the Take More Risks PI and a higher individual Mentality.

IF will mainly look to dribble, shoot and in the rare cases when he does choose to play someone else in instead, he will look for defense splitting through balls, rather than playing simple passes. His first thought is "how can I make a goal out of this", even on Support duty.

IW, on the other hand, also looks to dribble, but with the intent to then provide cut backs and play the rest of the team in, rather than having a go himself. He won't necessarily only look for risky passes, because he's not as goal-oriented as IF. His first thought is "how can I support the rest of the team". On Attack duty, he might be more aggressive overall, but still sees more than just a goal ahead of him.

At least that's my interpretation of it.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Zemahh

[DarJ]

2 hours ago, Zemahh said:

His first thought is "how can I make a goal out of this", even on Support duty.

That doesn't sound like a creator to me that's why I'm confused about the "take more risk" PI locked in.

My understanding of the PI is that the player will try to make more adventurous passes

[Aoyao]

IF is a "F"

IW is a "W"

[kingjericho]

3 hours ago, Aoyao said:

IF is a "F"

IW is a "W"

This is very simple but actually that's my take on it as well.

Let's say I'm playing classic 4-3-3. If I want the AML to be a main goalscorer along with the ST I'll use a IF (example Ronaldo + Benzema). If I want the AML to create chances for the ST I'll use a IW (example Sancho + Haaland).

[Rashidi]

On 16/11/2021 at 20:56, chris31k said:

Hello,

I'm struggling to see the differences between the two roles in this specific FM. It was pretty clear in FM21 but in fm22 i can't see the difference.

I tested to play the same match twice switching the roles , i watched the matches , the data and i can't see any differences.

I don't know if it's related to the "not cutting inside" known bug , so if someone manage to see clearly a difference, help would be appreciated.

 

 

You aren't the only one. Frankly speaking I am disappointed with how the IF is playing on FM22. When the role was first discussed we had Thierry Henry in mind. Starts out wide and drives diagonally in sometimes even dribbling with the ball and cutting inside on his favoured foot to score. . Basically a winger who can both arrive from wider positions to score goals or take on players. It worked like that in FM21 and in previous editions. However in FM22 he has become a player who makes his way to that position by diagonally moving in without the ball.  He attacks the space like a Raumdeuter and then scores goals.  The roles in the final third are very muddled up.
 

The way its playing now it gives me the impression that SI have basically just wanted him to stop dribbling and taking on players by driving inside diagonally with the ball. Now they just want him to arrive there making diagonal runs but he is just purely a goalscorer.  I am waiting to see if the patch makes him play differently.

[Prej]

The Inverted Winger in the ML or MR position is bugged, too. Even when he has space to cut inside, he'll usually behave like a standard winger and run all the way down to the byline, only to turn around looking for a backpass or try to cross with his weaker foot.

The only roles that actually seem to operate in those spaces are the Wide Playmaker or the Wide Midfielder, but it's still not the same as the IW in previous FMs. Very disappointed in that.

[chris31k]

@Rashidi  i dont know how much close you are to the SI team but do you have any Idea if theres a chance that they release a fix for the IF/IW behavior before mid december ? To me its the only issue that needs to be fixed very quickly. The other ones can wait

[arsenal3459]

first, if-s will have a higher player mentality compared to an iw-s.

for example, with a positive team mentality the if-s will have a very attacking player mentality, but the iw-s will have a positive player mentality.

at least according to the fm21 interface, which a lot of us are using since the fm22 player mentality information is still bugged.

 

 

and second, within the match engine itself @Rashidi has talked a lot here and on his youtube channel about what types of runs each role makes w/ if-s taking a step back this year.

one instruction i've seen him use (that i have stolen and enjoy) is to have the iw-s stay wider, so that they then cut in with the ball. although i think in his liverpool series he was using the iw on an attacking mentality. sit narrow and roam from position has created excellent play for me too. simply put iw-s has been producing exciting football this fm and responds well to instruction.

tl;dr: iw-s is an easier role to manage both in terms of player mentality and actions on the pitch.

[lckyby]

IFs cut inside before they get the ball, IWs stay out wide and then cut inside after they have it.
 

I gave up on both and now I just use pressing forwards who run in the channels and free roam because wing players – IF/IW/Raum/etc have never ever cut inside early enough for my liking, whatever instructions I try – in any edition of FM.

[FM1000]

In FM2021 the only way I could make my IF actually cut inside with the ball, try to dribble towards center instead of going wide is with a balanced team mentally and runs with ball through the middle PPM.

On any higher team mentality the IF won't try to dribble but just go little wide with the ball, get a bad but open angle at goal and shoot....

Any mentally higher then balanced players will shoot the moment they have some space in the penalty box, so IF's as wide players shoot from bad angles often with their weaker foot.

I think mentally as a concept is bugged, higher mentally means higher risk but the way it relates to shooting and dribbling is very badly implemented...

On higher mentalities players actually dirbble away from the defender (lower risk) instead of try to go through him which is the higher risk option. 

With high team mentality they tend to shoot at the slightest opening no matter the tempo or other settings Instead of keeping the ball and trying to move towards goal to reduce the shot distance ( higher risk option since they can lose the ball)

Edited November 29, 2021 by FM1000

[mjagiel]

9 hours ago, FM1000 said:

On any higher team mentality the IF won't try to dribble but just go little wide with the ball, get a bad but open angle at goal and shoot....

Any mentally higher then balanced players will shoot the moment they have some space in the penalty box, so IF's as wide players shoot from bad angles often with their weaker foot.

Have you tried adding the "Shoot Less Often" PI? I was dealing with similar issues with my forwards constantly taking bad shots when the goal of my tactic is to play through the striker and other attacking players. Now we get a lot less 1-v-1 shots that are blocked or miss, and a lot more through ball attempts and passing around the opponent box. I added it to both wingers and my striker.

[yonko]

On 21/11/2021 at 11:51, Rashidi said:

You aren't the only one. Frankly speaking I am disappointed with how the IF is playing on FM22. When the role was first discussed we had Thierry Henry in mind. Starts out wide and drives diagonally in sometimes even dribbling with the ball and cutting inside on his favoured foot to score. . Basically a winger who can both arrive from wider positions to score goals or take on players. It worked like that in FM21 and in previous editions. However in FM22 he has become a player who makes his way to that position by diagonally moving in without the ball.  He attacks the space like a Raumdeuter and then scores goals.  The roles in the final third are very muddled up.
 

The way its playing now it gives me the impression that SI have basically just wanted him to stop dribbling and taking on players by driving inside diagonally with the ball. Now they just want him to arrive there making diagonal runs but he is just purely a goalscorer.  I am waiting to see if the patch makes him play differently.

I actually like that the IF is making diagonal runs without the ball. That is how I always wanted the role to play. So I would say it was about time SI coded it that way. Ever since they introduced the IW role, they have worked to make the IF play differently as it should. Otherwise what is the point of having different roles to choose from. As for the Raumdeuter, I question why is that role in the game. There is only one player who has ever played like that and he doesn't even play it anymore. 

[FM1000]

3 hours ago, mjagiel said:

Have you tried adding the "Shoot Less Often" PI? I was dealing with similar issues with my forwards constantly taking bad shots when the goal of my tactic is to play through the striker and other attacking players. Now we get a lot less 1-v-1 shots that are blocked or miss, and a lot more through ball attempts and passing around the opponent box. I added it to both wingers and my striker.

Yes I did but it made no difference until I lowered the team mentality to balanced.

[FM1000]

3 hours ago, yonko said:

I actually like that the IF is making diagonal runs without the ball. That is how I always wanted the role to play. So I would say it was about time SI coded it that way. Ever since they introduced the IW role, they have worked to make the IF play differently as it should. Otherwise what is the point of having different roles to choose from. As for the Raumdeuter, I question why is that role in the game. There is only one player who has ever played like that and he doesn't even play it anymore. 

The way the IF is coded in FM2022 is the way a Raumdeuter should play, making runs without the ball...

In my mind an IF is a wide forward that does both things, runs diagonally into the center without the ball but when he receives the ball wide he tries to dribble diagonally towards the center...

And in my opinion an IW should be is just a winger that sits wide to receive the ball an then he drives diagonally towards the middle. But this is not how it is coded in the game, the IW and IS are too similar on FM2021...

And the IF and the Raumdeuter are too similar on FM2022..

Raumdeuter should make the same diagonal runs without the ball as the IF but when he receives the ball he should not take people on, just try to recycle possession.

Also when there is space he should look to occupy a striker position so he can break the offside trap. Sort of how Ronaldo plays now when he starts wide..

Edited November 30, 2021 by FM1000

[CharlieTZR]

these two roles are so bugged that I wouldn't bother with them until they will fix the issue.

[Aoyao]

 they will fix the issue？！！

[Detritus]

I have more joy in the current ME playing right footed player on the right as an IF, same with the leftside with left-footed. 

[isignedupfornorealreason]

On 09/12/2021 at 08:55, Aoyao said:

 they will fix the issue？！！

Still under review according to the bug tracker.

[afailed10]

Em 16/11/2021 em 13:25, plcarlos disse:

IW is effectively a creator, so should cut inside looking to create chances and maybe score.

IF is effectivley a scorer, so should cut inside looking to sccore and maybe create chances.

Of course, you then need to factor player traits into this:

An IF with "plays killer balls" will try to create more than standard, and an IF who "shoots from distance" might look to score more.

Unfortunately in the FM22 match engine, I've seen both roles move wider and play incorectly due to the bug. I have noticed a bit more correct movement when we play the bigger teams, and there is more space in the middle of the pitch. This is where they seem to move as they should, but seem to need much more space to move into.

I'm not disagreeing but at least up until FM21 the IF has "more risky passes" hardcoded while IW doesn't. In terms of movement I never noticed a big difference although the IF has much higher mentality.

I personally always used a creative player as a IF-s and players with ability but low vision/teamplay/passing as IW although it doesn't make much sense..

[Lesterfan_Cambiasso]

Whilst i dont disagree with the assertions people have over the IW/IF behaviour, to use real life examples 90% players would fall into "inverted winger" in the game.

 

Hardly anyone just drifts into space from a wide position off the ball. Basically everyone is required to contribute towards the buildup, so theyre practically all inverted wingers.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Lesterfan_Cambiasso