[FM21] 352 / 532 refining

[Fatkidscantjump]

Hello everyone, on my FC Nantes save I got this pleasant surprise :

It never happened to me before, so I thought I might aswell enjoy it and buy some world class players.

However since i'm not used to do that I wanna make sure I buy the right players for the right roles. Hence why i'm asking here if you guys have suggestions about the roles of the tactic i'm using. It's a simple 532 WB as such :

 

 

It's been going well and i'm really satisfied with how the attacking trio plays, they are all 3 racking up goals / assists, so it's going pretty great upfront, however my 3 main CDs and my mezzala get bad ratings compared to the rest of the team, so I was wondering if the mezzala role was to be changed, and maybe the duties on central defenders too.
 

 

Also has I said results have been pretty good but I struggle a lot vs big teams, lost 0-3 to PSG, 1-3 to Liverpool, 1-3 to Man Utd. Granted they're better teams but not by that much so maybe my tactic could need refining vs big teams. Anyways I appreciate any input, thanks for reading.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Fatkidscantjump

[Tsuru]

I have been working on a 3-4-1-2 similiar to yours (on formation) which evolved from a 3-4-2-1, so there are some inputs I have noticed here and maybe they can help you. I am also playing FM 21.

• I didn´t like the three at the back combination "CD-D/CD-Co/CD-D" with Higher DL+Higher LOE. I know it can work, of course, but to me it seemed that the trio was not pressing high enough to reduce opponents´ space and at the same time was leaving too much space behind, allowing for example too many crossings. I prefer two other options: or a trio "CD-St/CD-D/CD-St" with the higher lines, or a more simple trio "CD-D/CD-Co/CD-D" with standard mentality lines (and maybe use the BPD instead of the CD on the center). I also tested a Libero on the middle instead of the CD/BPD-Co with mixed results, the players´ ratings were very low, sometimes it seemed it was better defensively and other times it was not, maybe because the players are not good enough for that. Probably this "space protection" plus the midfield cover is what is making harder for you to play against tougher opponents.
   
• I am not sure about the defensive strategy yet, I don´t know if "Stay Wider" PIs on the lateral CD´s are a good idea, or if maybe we should play with a reduced or expanded defensive width. It seems very unstable sometimes and the opponents look to quickly find a way to dribble our strategy, but I think it is part of the game. If you have any ideas or inputs on that it would be really nice to hear.
   
• The 3-4-2-1 had a "box midfielder" with two CMs and two AMs, so I could play one of the CMs with a defensive duty and he helped the defence on the start of buildup, also protecting the space more. Now on the 3-4-1-2 this could be a risky option as I need both CMs move involved in all game phases, so I am now testing two CMs with individual instructions, the same way Rensie did on his 3-4-1-2 on FM 20 (https://www.fmrensie.net/2020/08/12/developing-3-4-1-2-tactic-in-fm20/). On your system I think you should reconsider the left side - maybe change the WB to a Defend Duty, or change the Mezzala to another role (CM-S with individual instructions or BBM/BWM all look good options).
   
• As you use a Treq and a Complete Foward, I would maybe consider changing the AMC to an AM-Su (maybe with individual instructions) or AP-Su. I am using the AMC on support and he has been playing very well, he helps the midfield, shows himself on the penalty area and does some interesting key passes. I noticed that with an Attack Duty he tends to isolate the two midfielders and bomb foward too soon.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Tsuru

[Fatkidscantjump]

Hello, thanks for your detailed answer, much appreciated.

il y a 36 minutes, Tsuru a dit :

I have been working on a 3-4-1-2 similiar to yours (on formation) which evolved from a 3-4-2-1, so there are some inputs I have noticed here and maybe they can help you. I am also playing FM 21.

• I didn´t like the three at the back combination "CD-D/CD-Co/CD-D" with Higher DL+Higher LOE. I know it can work, of course, but to me it seemed that the trio was not pressing high enough to reduce opponents´ space and at the same time was leaving too much space behind, allowing for example too many crossings. I prefer two other options: or a trio "CD-St/CD-D/CD-St" with the higher lines, or a more simple trio "CD-D/CD-Co/CD-D" with standard mentality lines (and maybe use the BPD instead of the CD on the center). I also tested a Libero on the middle instead of the CD/BPD-Co with mixed results, the players´ ratings were very low, sometimes it seemed it was better defensively and other times it was not, maybe because the players are not good enough for that. Probably this "space protection" plus the midfield cover is what is making harder for you to play against tougher opponents.
   

I wanted to use a CD-Co because I had a player with low Aggression so I thought It could fit, however he was my worst rated player last season so obviously something is not right. I'm going to try the two Stoppers suggestion especially since I brought a really good young CD with 15 aggression, and my other CD has 13 so he should do okay. I have not tested a Libero in this particular system but I tend to stay away from that role because everytime I tried to use one it never worked. I wonder if vs big teams I should bring the AM as a DM and completely change the style of play to a counter attacking system.
 

il y a 40 minutes, Tsuru a dit :

 

• I am not sure about the defensive strategy yet, I don´t know if "Stay Wider" PIs on the lateral CD´s are a good idea, or if maybe we should play with a reduced or expanded defensive width. It seems very unstable sometimes and the opponents look to quickly find a way to dribble our strategy, but I think it is part of the game. If you have any ideas or inputs on that it would be really nice to hear.
   

To be honest I have no clue. I like CDs positioning in possession with the "Stay Wider" PI but at the same time it feels very vulnerable to a pacey striker on the counter. But maybe it can work if you get beastly CDs with very good pace and anticipation. I might try it again, especially vs lower teams.

il y a une heure, Tsuru a dit :

• The 3-4-2-1 had a "box midfielder" with two CMs and two AMs, so I could play one of the CMs with a defensive duty and he helped the defence on the start of buildup, also protecting the space more. Now on the 3-4-1-2 this could be a risky option as I need both CMs move involved in all game phases, so I am now testing two CMs with individual instructions, the same way Rensie did on his 3-4-1-2 on FM 20 (https://www.fmrensie.net/2020/08/12/developing-3-4-1-2-tactic-in-fm20/). On your system I think you should reconsider the left side - maybe change the WB to a Defend Duty, or change the Mezzala to another role (CM-S with individual instructions or BBM/BWM all look good options).
   
• As you use a Treq and a Complete Foward, I would maybe consider changing the AMC to an AM-Su (maybe with individual instructions) or AP-Su. I am using the AMC on support and he has been playing very well, he helps the midfield, shows himself on the penalty area and does some interesting key passes. I noticed that with an Attack Duty he tends to isolate the two midfielders and bomb foward too soon.

I am reluctant in changing roles of the front three because they have been playing so good, however I think changing the Mezzala role to more of a "working" role is a good idea. I'm going to try both BWM and BBM and I'll see which one performs better.

[coach vahid]

Vs big teams Imo, test untick counter press and use lower line of engagement or standard. It will help your team to be more compact. Just theory. 

[Matt_1979]

My initial thoughts:

BPD to a stopper. 
One WB to attack. 
One of your strikers to lead the line. Both are dropping currently.