*Official* Football Manager 2022 Feedback Thread

[Thorqemada]

Am 27.3.2022 um 16:57 schrieb Tikka Mezzala:

I put my DoF in charge of transfers for realism purposes, and he sold all my goalkeepers. I had to play a greyed out keeper. That lack of intelligence on the part of the AI staff really bugs me. Selling all the bloody goalkeepers without even having a replacement lined up. It's not as though we were needing to sell off the family silver for financial reasons, or received offers that were irrefusable/met the minimum fee release clause. Just sold for the hell of it. 

Makes it difficult to play the game with these parameters added for more enjoyment. Defo need to sort the staff out!

My 2cent is that this game is named Football Mananger and unlike germany and german "Trainers" (Headcoach/Manager) the english Manager is way more involved in Transfers so i allways do Transfers myself.

Especially since i start in the Tier 6 of germany with little budget and do as many jobs as possible to reduce costs and have also my staff mostly work 2 jobs like all coaches are Scouts i.e. bcs i dont get Scouts often anyway.

In the low reputation leagues there is also the problem that players simply do not want to come to your club bcs it lacks reputation and the team is deemed to weak to overcome said low reputation so you get no good players at all if not for a very early and agressive transferswoop grabbing as much free agents as possible even without adequate scouting hoping some of them will help you (all the ones that have a real or no player picture bcs that are the potentially good ones).

The beauty of the per play contracts down in that Tier 6 is that you dont pay those who are not good enough to play...

 

I currently play a FM stint where i got 1 player that helps me and 20 to 30 players i identified as targets went elsewehre - if i had not a good base team this time i would be doomed...when you get into the "no good player comes cycle" its game over...though i get results so by winter i may have enough league reputation to get some of the adequate league players convonced to join me...maybe some of the free agenst that get desperate by that time...

 

PS: Wow, SI, the latest update put the ME on Steroids is seems, so many spectacular scenes i have never witnessed in my entire FM/CM history!

Edited March 28, 2022 by Thorqemada

[fabiogabriel]

In relation to my previous post I leave a print.. When choosing team b, whenever I leave the game and come back in, where Paulinho Santos is, he disappears, leaving the assistant of team A. Now if I change and confirm. It shouldn't change every time I leave the game. Furthermore, Paulinho Santos is not the assistant coach of team B, this coach does not appear in the options. Where it says José Tavares in yellow. I wanted to put the assistant coach of the sub19 team, and it doesn't even appear in the options.

Will it be difficult to correct these small mistakes? This is completely ridiculous, when you've already been warned of the problem and update after update persists!

[XaW]

8 hours ago, fabiogabriel said:

In relation to my previous post I leave a print.. When choosing team b, whenever I leave the game and come back in, where Paulinho Santos is, he disappears, leaving the assistant of team A. Now if I change and confirm. It shouldn't change every time I leave the game. Furthermore, Paulinho Santos is not the assistant coach of team B, this coach does not appear in the options. Where it says José Tavares in yellow. I wanted to put the assistant coach of the sub19 team, and it doesn't even appear in the options.

Will it be difficult to correct these small mistakes? This is completely ridiculous, when you've already been warned of the problem and update after update persists!

I dont' see this in my save. I tried to find your bug report, but I can't see any bug reports by you? Can you give a link to your report, please?

[paddypower]

On 28/03/2022 at 09:14, Neil Brock said:

We've actually increased our testing team substantially over the last few years, but it's worth remembering the game is now available across more platforms than ever before and is bigger than it's ever been. I joined SI in 2006 for FM07 and the amount that requires testing within the game is huge compared to then. 

With the match engine there is so much interlocked code that directly influences other parts of the engine and areas of the game it's incredibly difficult to make changes that improve say one specific thing. Requires a huge amount of testing and balancing. We have a long term roadmap and are in a position to make considerable under the hood developments to the game, but it will take time. 

There's also the risk of making significant changes after a game has been released that we 'break the match engine' for some. Tactics that work say on the initial games release become less effective etc. We stand by the current ME as the best and most balanced we've released, but are also confident it's in such a place that we can build on it further for the next version of FM. Doing so will take a fair amount of time, but the development team are already well underway in doing so.

The new Bug Tracker setup has allowed us to respond quicker and more comprehensively to issues raised on the forums, hence why we immediately ask for saves where possible. This allows us to be more efficient internally and gives QA more time to flag an issue and still investigate and work on others. Each bug which is fixed then needs to be verified internally that its successful before it can be released into live code.

We keep pretty comprehensive stats on the forums and can see the number of issues raised this year is actually lower than previous years. That doesn't necessarily confirm the game is a better experience for our players as we all know it only takes one frustrating problem to potentially ruin your game - but we're always reading and looking to make sure everything is logged. You're right in the sense we don't have the resource to do everything, so have to make sure we're prioritising everything we do to maximise the quality of the game. That does take into account features, bugs and longer term development. 

Simply put we have to concentrate on making not only the current FM a success but every FM we release a success. If we don't, we'd cease to function as a studio - we need to release games in order to keep the studio going and keep the resources we already have. Finding talented developers is extremely hard (we've got loads of jobs on our careers page on the sigames website) and only by creating and selling FM are we in a position to hire and keep us moving forward. 

Appreciate there's frustrations when the game isn't perfect in your eyes, but we strive to make every release or update the best version of FM we can. 

Hi Neil, thank you for your response. I do wish to clarify my frustration is with the leadership in SI and certainly not with the staff. I'm a software engineer myself so I know how it works, the Devs and the testers aren't the ones making decisions or road maps.

 

I do appreciate your point about expanding onto other platforms, but I don't feel that can be used as a reason for bugs not being fixed. SI decided to expand so should have ensured the resources and time was in place to cope with that.

 

I also take your point on the match engine. And personally I don't have any complaints there. Unless we have a scripted game which we obviously don't want, the match engine will never be perfect with the randomness required for immersion. And as consumers we can't expect sweeping changes there. I'm perfectly ok with waiting for a new game for a new match engine.

 

My frustration is with the leadership in SI who chooses to chase new features over fixing existing issues. I know you need to features to sell the game, and I'm sure there's features slotted for years in advance, but it's a matter of priority. For example the change from fitness percentage to heart health. That's a good change, but fundamentally it doesn't change the game or how we play. It doesn't add value. Why is something like that prioritised over a bug? The leadership should be looking at things like that and saying yes it's a good feature, but it's a nice to have not a show stopper, so let's delay that to the next iteration of the game and fix bugs now instead. I can't imagine how long that heart health feature took to implement - requirements, UI, development, testing. It probably took months. And I'm certain there are similar 'nice to have' features being worked on right now for the next game. Meanwhile there's UI bugs such as being unable to change the player position in the scout report. That bug has been there since the beta and hasn't been fixed. If work was halted on some of those fluff features you'd have the time and manpower to fix the bug. So it's hard not to get frustrated with the leadership because they are actively deciding to make their existing customers experience worse. 

 

I've bought every single version of FM and the bugs get worse every year. It was never something I noticed before, but these days it feels like I'm playing a dev version of the game with the obvious bugs. I run code locally in my job with these type of bugs and I would be absolutely mortified to demo these to a customer never mind actually roll them out like this. I never would, because in my job when we have a codebase riddled with bugs my bosses push out deadlines or reproritise things to get us back on track, they don't say the customers can put up with it until we sell them a new product next year. 

[vikeologist]

Having actually typed out the problem, I don't think it's very important, so am going to be really brief. 

It's about the neutral venues Russian clubs play in for European fixtures, (for ongoing saves, because it doesn't apply IRL).

So, some (but by no means all) of the neutral venues seem very small, as in 3.5k capacity. This seems a bit arbitrary, and unfair.

However, as I have suggested above, unless we're playing in Russia, for a few reasons, probably this doesn't matter

Edited March 29, 2022 by vikeologist

[Garethjohn79]

Northern Ireland isn't fixed. Second tier 33 normal season and 10 after split and more if you are in the play-offs.

When you update the players what leagues do you do? I watched a Cymru North fixture Saturday and few of those playing were in the FM squad.

[glenjamin]

Is it just me or since the update there's an ungodly amount of shots hitting the crossbar/post. Last two games I've managed 7 then 6 shots hitting the woodwork. 

[XaW]

8 minutes ago, glenjamin said:

Is it just me or since the update there's an ungodly amount of shots hitting the crossbar/post. Last two games I've managed 7 then 6 shots hitting the woodwork. 

Don't think there were any ME updates, so most likely a coincidence.

[ajw10]

On 26/03/2022 at 18:10, ajw10 said:

Anyway. This is definitely broken

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

 

It's happened again

 

[OxfordUnitedFC]

Getting too many players unhappy with their playing time as they are important players/regular starters but rested once every so often when they  are absolutely knackered and can’t possibly play . Seems to be nothing programmed in to make them understand that they are not fit enough to start.

[DragonAndLance]

On 25/03/2022 at 17:14, themadsheep2001 said:

Russia being banned indefinitely in FM is no different to the likes of Mason Greenwood being banned indefinitely FM to their respective real life indefinite bans. If/when the bans are lifted in real life, then it should be lifted in FM. Until then they are still currently banned indefinitely. It's actually not a unique treatment. 

We can debate this back and forth, but ultimately this is the decision, and given how long it took them to decide and implement it, i very much doubt its going to change unless the real world scenario changes

Why is the suspended Ukrainian league still in the game then? As long as this war goes on, Ukrainian teams will not be playing European football or any football at all. Ukrainian teams should be made unavailable throughout all 3 databases to reflect reality, right? 

 

The solution is so simple; just let players choose to play either before the war started or after (since si wants this so bad).

Edited March 30, 2022 by DragonAndLance

[rp1966]

1 hour ago, DragonAndLance said:

The solution is so simple; just let players choose to play either before the war started or after (since si wants this so bad).

I don't think it is that simple. FM 22.4:Eternal War has been implemented using a combination of database and coding changes.  If it was database only then selecting earlier databases would be able to give different gameworlds with and without the Russia changes.  Because there's only one set of code, the changes made there affect every database.  It's been argued that a choice should have been offered or the effects should have been time limited, but ultimately SI have made this choice and it is too late in the game cycle to change again.

 

[SimonHoddle]

First up I play on Xbox. So I fork out £120 to play a game that used to cost £20. You’d expect it to be different level. The truth is the match graphics are STILL worse than 5 years ago. Jokes! How are they capable of making a game look worse? Almost genius and charge us more 😂. The ME is a moot point, maybe better, maybe worse. It shouldn’t be a debate SI. it’s called evolution.

secondly the bore factor of gameplay. Defensive tactics are prone to failure so it makes being innovative much more limited. Just attack, buy some good players and wait for potential success. Rinse and repeat.

I play as spurs. Won the europa conference league in season 1. That should be a given. Won the europa league in season 2. Happy with that. Season 3 top our CL group including Barca. Start PL with multiple wins, all good. Then leaguer form falls apart for 6 games. Starts with 6-0 defeat away to Leicester. I play 3 CBs including Ibanez as cover (v pacy CB). Problem is he never covers as game isn’t properly programmed to do that. Vardy gets hat trick with 3 simple balls over top of my deep lying defence (which seems to not lie deep at all) and rot starts. The tactics aren’t screwed, the game is.

so I get sacked. Hours of my life wasted. Utterly frustrating and unmanageable game. Costing a load more for what? A worse game with the most limited and pointless gameplay advice  I’ve ever seen. 

seriously pi**ed off.

[Junkhead]

5 hours ago, rp1966 said:

but ultimately SI have made this choice and it is too late in the game cycle to change again.

This is I think the biggest problem here. A change has been made by the developer to a product that people have paid for which fundamentally alters the product in a certain situation. Whilst for most this won't matter at all and they will notice few - if any - impacts of the change during the course of their saves.  Indeed, if I played a long save and Russia or Belarus never qualified for an international tournament BEFORE this change, then I'm not sure I would even notice.

But then there are a small amount of us whose enjoyment will be impacted by this. I genuinely don't think I will buy FM23 if the ban is still indefinite on the game. This would be the first version since CM93 I haven't owned, save for one or two. This might seem terribly picky to some, but it's how it is. 

And all of this is fine, because as you said, this is SI's product, it's up to them and it's ultimately up to me if I buy it.

HOWEVER, I have already bought FM22, and the game had been fundamentally changed by the developer. The option of continuing without the change has gone, and I am yet to find a work around to restore the game to the version I bought despite checking the editors forum and other well known FM sites most days for the last week. I have also spoken to a number of well known editors in the community and none have plans to try to change this back because of the difficulty in doing so.

So basically, having waited for the final update and certain editor files to start my game, I now probably won't.  

I'm not one to demand compensation like people do over the littlest things, and that isn't what I'm doing here - I have almost certainly got my money's worth out of this version anyway. However, in my opinion, it shouldn't be up to SI to decide how I use the product I've paid for. And that includes people rightly pointing out that this will only impact a small number of users. In my opinion, the decision that has been made in making the ban last FOREVER on new saves, even if a database is selected representing the world as it was when the game was released, is really strange.  More so, a change the the product that impacts people who have potentially put thousands of hours into a save that they have been playing since October is massively unfair.

And as you say, it is too late in the game cycle now for this to be changed. If peace is agreed next week, Russian clubs will likely be back in Europe by 23/24 at the absolute latest, however the game will remain unplayable for some of us for six months.

I'm not going to be posting about this again in here because I have already done so a couple of times, but needed to get this out having reflected. 

Really disappointed in the overall decision from SI to make this almost impossible to get around by coding the changes as well as making them in the database. Feels like a dictation of how the game should be used and enjoyed, and don't think the user should be trawling the internet in the hope someone from within the community has worked out how to get around whatever change has been made to restore the product to the state it was in when people paid for it.

 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Junkhead

[sdx15]

2 hours ago, SimonHoddle said:

Problem is he never covers as game isn’t properly programmed to do that.

Then why are you playing him as a cover CB if it’s not working for you?

I’m also playing with a cover CB and their movement seems fine. On occasion, they will f*** up but not more than my other two CBs.

[themadsheep2001]

12 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

This is I think the biggest problem here. A change has been made by the developer to a product that people have paid for which fundamentally alters the product in a certain situation. Whilst for most this won't matter at all and they will notice few - if any - impacts of the change during the course of their saves.  Indeed, if I played a long save and Russia or Belarus never qualified for an international tournament BEFORE this change, then I'm not sure I would even notice.

But then there are a small amount of us whose enjoyment will be impacted by this. I genuinely don't think I will buy FM23 if the ban is still indefinite on the game. This would be the first version since CM93 I haven't owned, save for one or two. This might seem terribly picky to some, but it's how it is. 

And all of this is fine, because as you said, this is SI's product, it's up to them and it's ultimately up to me if I buy it.

HOWEVER, I have already bought FM22, and the game had been fundamentally changed by the developer. The option of continuing without the change has gone, and I am yet to find a work around to restore the game to the version I bought despite checking the editors forum and other well known FM sites most days for the last week. I have also spoken to a number of well known editors in the community and none have plans to try to change this back because of the difficulty in doing so.

So basically, having waited for the final update and certain editor files to start my game, I now probably won't.  

I'm not one to demand compensation like people do over the littlest things, and that isn't what I'm doing here - I have almost certainly got my money's worth out of this version anyway. However, in my opinion, it shouldn't be up to SI to decide how I use the product I've paid for. And that includes people rightly pointing out that this will only impact a small number of users. In my opinion, the decision that has been made in making the ban last FOREVER on new saves, even if a database is selected representing the world as it was when the game was released, is really strange.  More so, a change the the product that impacts people who have potentially put thousands of hours into a save that they have been playing since October is massively unfair.

And as you say, it is too late in the game cycle now for this to be changed. If peace is agreed next week, Russian clubs will likely be back in Europe by 23/24 at the absolute latest, however the game will remain unplayable for some of us for six months.

I'm not going to be posting about this again in here because I have already done so a couple of times, but needed to get this out having reflected. 

Really disappointed in the overall decision from SI to make this almost impossible to get around by coding the changes as well as making them in the database. Feels like a dictation of how the game should be used and enjoyed, honestly.

 

 

 

Si make decisions changes to the game every addition, as the developer, they do get to decide what is and isn't in the game. Now people have every right to agree or disagree with their decision, but I think it's wrong to say its not up to SI, it most certainly is. FIFA and UEFA banning Russia indefinitely means SI are well within their rights to choose to follow (or ignore) that

[Cle]

42 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Si make decisions changes to the game every addition, as the developer, they do get to decide what is and isn't in the game. Now people have every right to agree or disagree with their decision, but I think it's wrong to say its not up to SI, it most certainly is. FIFA and UEFA banning Russia indefinitely means SI are well within their rights to choose to follow (or ignore) that

And what rights do users have?...

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, Cle said:

And what rights do users have?...

To say whether they are agree or disagree, and/or vote with their wallets

[Cle]

5 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

To say whether they are agree or disagree, and/or vote with their wallets

Will I get my money back then? When I "voted" the Russian league was still playable...

[Junkhead]

Just now, themadsheep2001 said:

Si make decisions changes to the game every addition, as the developer, they do get to decide what is and isn't in the game. Now people have every right to agree or disagree with their decision, but I think it's wrong to say its not up to SI, it most certainly is

So we are saying it is up to SI to fundamentally make changes to the product that people have purchased without consulting them, even applying that change to existing saves when people don't want it?

Not sure I'm ok with that, but happy to agree to disagree.

[themadsheep2001]

4 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

So we are saying it is up to SI to fundamentally make changes to the product that people have purchased without consulting them, even applying that change to existing saves when people don't want it?

Not sure I'm ok with that, but happy to agree to disagree.

They literally do that every update. ME changes, AI changes, UI changes etc

[latrell]

Quote

 

First up I play on Xbox. So I fork out £120 to play a game that used to cost £20. You’d expect it to be different level. The truth is the match graphics are STILL worse than 5 years ago. Jokes! How are they capable of making a game look worse? Almost genius and charge us more 😂. The ME is a moot point, maybe better, maybe worse. It shouldn’t be a debate SI. it’s called evolution.

secondly the bore factor of gameplay. Defensive tactics are prone to failure so it makes being innovative much more limited. Just attack, buy some good players and wait for potential success. Rinse and repeat.

I play as spurs. Won the europa conference league in season 1. That should be a given. Won the europa league in season 2. Happy with that. Season 3 top our CL group including Barca. Start PL with multiple wins, all good. Then leaguer form falls apart for 6 games. Starts with 6-0 defeat away to Leicester. I play 3 CBs including Ibanez as cover (v pacy CB). Problem is he never covers as game isn’t properly programmed to do that. Vardy gets hat trick with 3 simple balls over top of my deep lying defence (which seems to not lie deep at all) and rot starts. The tactics aren’t screwed, the game is.

so I get sacked. Hours of my life wasted. Utterly frustrating and unmanageable game. Costing a load more for what? A worse game with the most limited and pointless gameplay advice  I’ve ever seen. 

seriously pi**ed off.

 

i never knew it cost so much on x box I've always played the game on my pc but 120 is outrages.

[XaW]

3 minutes ago, latrell said:

i never knew it cost so much on x box I've always played the game on my pc but 120 is outrages.

Either the OP is being fleeced by someone, or it's hyperbole... £30, or use Game Pass.

[latrell]

Just now, XaW said:

Either the OP is being fleeced by someone, or it's hyperbole... £30, or use Game Pass.

well that's more like it be interested to know were he got his game from. 

[sdx15]

52 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

They literally do that every update. ME changes, AI changes, UI changes etc

Those are changes aimed at improving gaming experience. Forcing Russian teams to play at neutral venues in existing saves isn’t exactly that. SI have gone a step too far with that, imho.

[Junkhead]

58 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

They literally do that every update. ME changes, AI changes, UI changes etc

They don't make changes to competitions that impact existing saves every update.

Every other competition change on every patch ever has required a new save.

[themadsheep2001]

5 minutes ago, sdx15 said:

Those are changes aimed at improving gaming experience. Forcing Russian teams to play at neutral venues in existing saves isn’t exactly that. SI have gone a step too far with that, imho.

SI also make changes aimed at replicating real life experiences tbf, some like it some don't and that's fine. I'm not saying people should agree or disagree, but I think the idea that SI don't have the authority to make such changes isn't true

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, Junkhead said:

They don't make changes to competitions that impact existing saves every update.

Every other competition change on every patch ever has required a new save.

Fundamental changes to the ME and AI do not require new saves. The point, and tbh I think you know that's the point I'm making, is that SI can and do make fundamental changes to the game without consulting users on every decision, and that's extremely normal among game devs, have done in the past, and will do in the future

[Zemahh]

14 hours ago, OxfordUnitedFC said:

Getting too many players unhappy with their playing time as they are important players/regular starters but rested once every so often when they  are absolutely knackered and can’t possibly play . Seems to be nothing programmed in to make them understand that they are not fit enough to start.

If a player is "knackered", you can talk to them and tell them you're going to rest them. If they're actually unfit, they will almost always agree.

And if that's not an option, telling them right away you can sell them if they wish usually works wonders.

[Junkhead]

1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Fundamental changes to the ME and AI do not require new saves. The point, and tbh I think you know that's the point I'm making, is that SI can and do make fundamental changes to the game without consulting users on every decision, and that's extremely normal among game devs, have done in the past, and will do in the future

Yeah, you're right in fairness, I did know the point you were making and was being pedantic to a point. What I said about competition changes is still true though.

I think this is quite a divisive issue, and I think part of that division comes from if it impacts the individuals' enjoyment. It does/will impact mine, so I know which side I am always going to fall on.

As I said, I've said my piece a couple of times and appreciate that some people agree and some people disagree with my point of view, so will leave it now.

If anyone comes across an editor file that puts things back to how they were, or time limits the ban, please let me know!

Edited March 30, 2022 by Junkhead

[Mcfc1894]

Anyone else noticed Ai games having crazy games like this a bit too often

[OxfordUnitedFC]

3 hours ago, Zemahh said:

If a player is "knackered", you can talk to them and tell them you're going to rest them. If they're actually unfit, they will almost always agree.

And if that's not an option, telling them right away you can sell them if they wish usually works wonders.

Thanks, will give that a go.

 

[JordanMilly]

6 hours ago, Cle said:

And what rights do users have?...

Whatever consumer rights you have (which are very few for game downloads), and the terms in the EULA and T&Cs.

[TheArsenal63]

The weird wide player behaviors continues, their refusal to cross or do anything productive when given acres of space is genuinely infuriating.

Ok he is in the box, perfect time to cross or even go to the byline and chip it back post, anything other than what he is about to do.....

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand he turns away, the risk assessment from these wide players (including fullbacks) is baffling, they refuse to  exploit good space, no player on EARTH runs AWAY from goal when in the box, so weird...

And he somehow ends up almost running out of the box

He still gets the cross in but all the fullback wants to do is the cutback cross, maybe he is waiting for more players to arrive? But there's like 6 players in the box there. Why run away, then turn back to cross when the cross was on the first time?

[Senak]

Anyone having issues with long balls and defenders just missing headers leading to strikers getting 1 on 1s? I've tried going as deep as I can but it doesn't seem to be stopping it. Very frustrating as it's the main source of goals against me!

[Mst82]

For me this is the worst FM I’ve ever played, and I picked it up in 2011. 
 

Although I finished 3rd in my 2nd season with Leicester, and ran the top 2 fairly close, the whole season was horrendous.
 

Constantly having to change and tweak tactics depending on the opposition (yet they never change for me seemingly).  Constantly being pegged back in the last 10 minutes of games despite being 2 or 3 up.  Constantly conceding to deep throw ins and set pieces late in games regardless of my set up and training.  You cannot play the same team two games running if in European competitions and the fixture pile ups are a joke, not to mention random international call ups on the eve of important games.  I could go on and on. 
 

I want to stop playing I really do, but I keep thinking I’ll figure it out soon and it never happens. 
 

I’ve read the guides etc. but feel they’re now out of date with FM22, personally. 
 

Granted I don’t want it to be easy but some of what occurs in game is laughable.  The behaviour of the ME at times makes me want to smash my laptop up. 

[Mst82]

27 minutes ago, Senak said:

Anyone having issues with long balls and defenders just missing headers leading to strikers getting 1 on 1s? I've tried going as deep as I can but it doesn't seem to be stopping it. Very frustrating as it's the main source of goals against me!

Yes! Mancini who is a top centre half on the game does it constantly for me!

[ajw10]

Day of the first World Club Cup game. Just not good enough from SI

[ajw10]

A week break between games and my players don't recover as there's no training. Just get rid of this competition and revert to the old format

[davehanson]

11 hours ago, Junkhead said:

This is I think the biggest problem here. A change has been made by the developer to a product that people have paid for which fundamentally alters the product in a certain situation. Whilst for most this won't matter at all and they will notice few - if any - impacts of the change during the course of their saves.  Indeed, if I played a long save and Russia or Belarus never qualified for an international tournament BEFORE this change, then I'm not sure I would even notice.

But then there are a small amount of us whose enjoyment will be impacted by this. I genuinely don't think I will buy FM23 if the ban is still indefinite on the game. This would be the first version since CM93 I haven't owned, save for one or two. This might seem terribly picky to some, but it's how it is. 

And all of this is fine, because as you said, this is SI's product, it's up to them and it's ultimately up to me if I buy it.

HOWEVER, I have already bought FM22, and the game had been fundamentally changed by the developer. The option of continuing without the change has gone, and I am yet to find a work around to restore the game to the version I bought despite checking the editors forum and other well known FM sites most days for the last week. I have also spoken to a number of well known editors in the community and none have plans to try to change this back because of the difficulty in doing so.

So basically, having waited for the final update and certain editor files to start my game, I now probably won't.  

I'm not one to demand compensation like people do over the littlest things, and that isn't what I'm doing here - I have almost certainly got my money's worth out of this version anyway. However, in my opinion, it shouldn't be up to SI to decide how I use the product I've paid for. And that includes people rightly pointing out that this will only impact a small number of users. In my opinion, the decision that has been made in making the ban last FOREVER on new saves, even if a database is selected representing the world as it was when the game was released, is really strange.  More so, a change the the product that impacts people who have potentially put thousands of hours into a save that they have been playing since October is massively unfair.

And as you say, it is too late in the game cycle now for this to be changed. If peace is agreed next week, Russian clubs will likely be back in Europe by 23/24 at the absolute latest, however the game will remain unplayable for some of us for six months.

I'm not going to be posting about this again in here because I have already done so a couple of times, but needed to get this out having reflected. 

Really disappointed in the overall decision from SI to make this almost impossible to get around by coding the changes as well as making them in the database. Feels like a dictation of how the game should be used and enjoyed, and don't think the user should be trawling the internet in the hope someone from within the community has worked out how to get around whatever change has been made to restore the product to the state it was in when people paid for it.

 

 

 

You make some good points, however: 

 

You don't actually own the game. None of us do. The way that software works (games included) is that you own the licence to be able to play the game. You buy their 'service', and you are buying the rights to play their game, which they retain full ownership for. Legally they could change every aspect of the game and you would not be able to oppose it legally in anyway as you were never guaranteed anything other that the right to play the 'software'.

[Gingerdilligaf]

9 hours ago, Mcfc1894 said:

Anyone else noticed Ai games having crazy games like this a bit too often

Yeah. First weekend of games since update & Man Utd beat 2nd place Newcastle 9-2 while Liverpool won 8-3 against Watford. Ice hockey scores are happening.

[masno]

7 horas atrás, Senak disse:

Anyone having issues with long balls and defenders just missing headers leading to strikers getting 1 on 1s? I've tried going as deep as I can but it doesn't seem to be stopping it. Very frustrating as it's the main source of goals against me!

I stopped playing exactly because of this, played a match on 4-3-3 and got a draw in the last minute because of a perfect longball. Learned my lesson, grab 3 defenders now, one dropping to cover, and reduced my line of defense, even then somehow in 4 different games they managed to put a ball in my CD back, and I wondered, how?

So, I decided to watch matches on full to understand how this was happening, and then an old problem: Players don't actually obey your instructions. Even giving direct instructions for them to stay back and protect their backs, somehow an ST always managed to get the best on them, they would miss a header, he would outrun them, for some unknown reason they would simply let him grab the ball and pass through them, and reminding, I am not talking about Messi's or Neymar's, I'm talking about average attackers.

The problem with this FM is the same old problem from other FM's, the refusal to look on the tactical side of the game, and then we have the mess that they call a "simulation", where players can't obey their orders, even when you beg them. It is frustrating watching matches because of this, it is so hard to get a desired pattern, and even when you found it, it goes on for just 3-5 matches, and them seems like your team "dis-learn" it.

And before people come here saying "it's your tactic", I win games, even more that I should, it is just that is frustrating that a game that call itself a simulation can't replicate what real managers applies to their teams consistently, FM nowadays is basically, grab good players, an attacker tactic, and win games. People say FM and FIFA are super different, nowadays I see the same pattern, same games every year, with a formula to win, it is not fun anymore. 

[Merc103]

I'm gonna start my reply off by saying that I love Football Manager. Like many others, I've been playing this game since I was a kid. Thousands of hours spent, a lot of games owned, and a huge amount of saves that I spent time and effort on.

To be completely honest, regardless of any negative thoughts I have about the current state of the game, I will probably still buy the newest version next year. Does that sound familiar? Indeed, the game is starting to mirror a fellow popular football game series. Life is slowly being sucked out of the game. A new coat of paint on a car with severe mechanical issues.

I'm sure many of you here are familiar with the silly, but disastrous red card bug that was VERY easy to replicate. A bug that any person who has played the game for an in-game month could spot. I do not remember when the bug first started appearing, but what I know for certain is that it was present on FM 18. It took SI until FM 22 to fix, and no, not even for the initial release of the game. This is one of many bugs that were previously reported by members of the community yet left on hold for reasons unbeknownst to us consumers, instead SI decide to release "new features" that more often than not do not actually have any effect on your saves.

 Why am I writing this post now? Well, yesterday I read about the most recent update, and while not surprised, I was very disappointed. SI decided to use the game I bought to send political messages. This phrase has lost all meaning recently, but unfortunately, what SI is doing is called virtue signaling. First of all, why would you break ONGOING saves? Has this ever happened before? Usually, changes like these are to a large extent "optional", meaning you have to create a new save to see the changes. This update was special however, it had to be shoved down everyone's throats.

Realism? First of all, the Russia ban is indefinite. Sure, when the ban is eventually lifted the new game will reflect it, but people paid 50 dollars to play THIS game. You shouldn't have to buy the new game every year. Why would you not have the ban randomly lifted at various points in the future? How is it realistic playing 100 years into the future and Russia is still banned by FIFA/UEFA?

What is very suspicious is that this realism does not apply to Ukraine. Ukraine's football is suspended in real life, yet for some reason it's not suspended in the game. This is very obvious for anyone to see. SI were simply just taking a stance. No, they probably do not think banning Russia in FM saves would make Putin change his mind about the invasion, I do not think they are that deluded yet, but clearly SI thought this was a good way to share their thoughts on the situation and war in general. Russia gets realistically punished, while Ukraine's state does not reflect a realistic real life form. We get it, SI. War bad, Russia bad. Thank you!

Oh, let's also try to forget the Qatar World Cup relocation in FM 18 while we're at it, yes? I wonder why in almost every save the World Cup was being moved? I know why. Everyone knows why. It sucks that you guys are more focused on sending meaningless political messages instead of improving the game that has a bug forum with THOUSANDS, yes, THOUSANDS of bugs reported by members of the community every single year.

Let this sink in: A political statement made by SI has had a bigger effect on people's (Russian) saves than most features released for the past few editions of the game.

[Mst82]

1 hour ago, masno said:

I stopped playing exactly because of this, played a match on 4-3-3 and got a draw in the last minute because of a perfect longball. Learned my lesson, grab 3 defenders now, one dropping to cover, and reduced my line of defense, even then somehow in 4 different games they managed to put a ball in my CD back, and I wondered, how?

So, I decided to watch matches on full to understand how this was happening, and then an old problem: Players don't actually obey your instructions. Even giving direct instructions for them to stay back and protect their backs, somehow an ST always managed to get the best on them, they would miss a header, he would outrun them, for some unknown reason they would simply let him grab the ball and pass through them, and reminding, I am not talking about Messi's or Neymar's, I'm talking about average attackers.

The problem with this FM is the same old problem from other FM's, the refusal to look on the tactical side of the game, and then we have the mess that they call a "simulation", where players can't obey their orders, even when you beg them. It is frustrating watching matches because of this, it is so hard to get a desired pattern, and even when you found it, it goes on for just 3-5 matches, and them seems like your team "dis-learn" it.

And before people come here saying "it's your tactic", I win games, even more that I should, it is just that is frustrating that a game that call itself a simulation can't replicate what real managers applies to their teams consistently, FM nowadays is basically, grab good players, an attacker tactic, and win games. People say FM and FIFA are super different, nowadays I see the same pattern, same games every year, with a formula to win, it is not fun anymore. 

The last sentence here, I couldn’t have put it better myself. I have found myself completely disillusioned with the last 2 FM’s for this exact reason. 
 

I won everything possible with my Milan team, which was my Beta save. The first couple of seasons were dreadful to watch as I built my squad, constantly changing tactics and save scumming time figure out what was going on - I eventually built a world class squad and I believe I only won everything, and had my first ever FM invincible season, due to my players ability rather than my tactical genius. 
 

The game is becoming overly complicated and predictable, as you say.  
 

I’m sure they’ve turned Liverpool up even higher in the update too! Winning 7/8/9-0 every week. 

[rp1966]

More playing time interaction nonsense. 

One of my defenders came to me complaining about playing time - it wasn't a problem for me to promise to play him more, I'd just been favouring another pairing and not rotating him in as often as I should have.

Shortly afterwards he went off to play in AFCON for an extended period. However this was obviously not taken into account by the promise interactions system.  He came back from AFCON was injured for one game then as soon as he was fit I played him.

Straight after that game he came to me saying I'd broken the playing time promise.  How  was I meant to play him, he's been missing on international duty for two months or however long AFCON lasts.

 

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by rp1966

[FrazT]

10 minutes ago, rp1966 said:

More playing time interaction nonsense. 

One of my defenders came to me complaining about playing time - it wasn't a problem for me to promise to play him more, I'd just been favouring another pairing and not rotating him in as often as I should have.

Shortly afterwards he went off to play in AFCON for an extended period. However this was obviously not taken into account by the promise interactions system.  He came back from AFCON was injured for one game then as soon as he was fit I played him.

Straight after that game he came to me saying I'd broken the playing time promise.  How  was I meant to play him, he's been missing on international duty for two months or however long AFCON lasts.

 

 

Please dont report this in this thread- report it in the Bug Tracker and it will at least get looked at.

[rp1966]

1 minute ago, FrazT said:

Please dont report this in this thread- report it in the Bug Tracker and it will at least get looked at.

No point for this version. When FM23 hits I'll go back to reporting bugs in the bug tracker.

[CFuller]

2 hours ago, Merc103 said:

Oh, let's also try to forget the Qatar World Cup relocation in FM 18 while we're at it, yes? I wonder why in almost every save the World Cup was being moved? I know why. Everyone knows why.

Because a Qatar World Cup could only be played in winter, and nobody knew (not even SI) at the time how that would affect the world football calendar?

Your claim that SI (almost) always took the World Cup away from Qatar because of politics forgets one crucial detail. In previous games (from FM11 to about FM15), Qatar would always host the World Cup in summer 2022 without issue.

The 2022 World Cup only started getting moved in FM once people realised that it would be logistically impossible to safely stage a World Cup in an extraordinarily hot Qatari summer. SI had two options: 1) move the 2022 World Cup to the winter and rejig the entire football calendar between 2021 and 2023 - at a time when, again, nobody knew how that would work. Or 2) move the tournament to a country where a summer World Cup was more feasible.

SI eventually went with option 1 on FM19, but only when organisers had started to figure out the new schedules. But for FM16 to FM18, they went with option 2 most of the time, and the World Cup was usually moved to Argentina, Australia, Canada, Morocco... or China. And sometimes it would stay in Qatar.

SI moving the World Cup from Qatar was down to logistics, not politics.

[KingCanary]

This will probably be quite a long post as I'm just trying to sum up all my feedback after the final patch. For context, I didn't play FM21 so most of my comparisons are to FM 20.

Match Engine

In almost every way this match engine is a massive step forward. In FM20 players shooting from ridiculous angles was my biggest bugbear and this is now largely gone so big tick in the box. There is more of a variety of goals, I can tell the difference between an excellent finisher being one on one with the keeper and a more average player which is a nice touch. The willingness to recycle play at times is nice and I've seen some lovely goals with curling shots or dinked finishes. The final patch also improved IW/IF play but still not enough in my view. When I make tactical tweaks I feel like it shows up in the match engine more obviously which is nice to see.

For the negatives- gengenpress is still wildly overpowered in my opinion. It isn't that other tactics don't work (I'm currently doing very well with a control possession tactic) but if I'm ever struggling for a tactic I know I can just whack gengenpress on and it'll work more often than not. It has led to me actively avoiding using it as it feels like a minor cheat code. 

There are an excessive amount of silly offsides in the game too. So many highlights end with someone playing a pass to player just standing offside. It isn't a case of the player being 'caught out' by the defence, they just stand offside far too often. I'd also echo the issue others have flagged where central defenders get caught under the ball far too often, leading to an awful lot of one on ones where the chance has been created by the keeper.

My biggest ask though- please, please bring back some form of analysis that you can access during the match. I hate that my choices for trying to work out how high the opposition defensive line is is either wait for halftime or watch on full highlights. I enjoy game management but I don't want every game taking 20 minutes to get through due to needing to be on full highlights. I get the 'realism' argument but its a game, it is supposed to be fun and sometimes I only have an hour to play- if I'm on full highlights then I'm likely getting through two games max in that time and it just makes it all a slog.

UI

Far too many clicks and far too much having to hover over an unintuitive icon to work out what it means. For instance in a scout card the icon for 'make an offer' or 'ask agent for more info' aren't remotely clear what they are supposed to show. Also in match the emoji faces to show body language are horrible and I recently discovered one face can mean two separate things. If you can't tell what they are showing you at a glance then just get rid. Also there are a few little things that just don't work for whatever reason- I've set 'loan list notifications' in my scouting meetings to off multiple times but they still show up for example.

Staff Feedback

This is an area where the new features initially seemed fun quickly grew pointless. Something I'd suggest for scouting meetings- let us set the agenda a few days in advance so scouts come prepared. Instead if I happen to disagree with the areas of need (and I often do) there are no reports for me to view on my chosen priorities. The staff meeting I skip, mainly because the advice is often useless. I made a post recently about my DoF recommending I relegate two of my star players to 'fringe players' in the squad for absolutely no reason. Stuff like that means I just click past it and roll my eyes. Someone mentioned it might be due to his preferred formation not involving wingers but he isn't the manager and doesn't pick the team- I can't imagine a DoF, scout or coach at Man City would tell Pep he needed to ditch players like Foden or Diaz in favour of big 'destroyer' type players even if that was his preferred way of playing. I'm also very bored of clicking through the same 10/15 recommendations from scouts. Surely once I've acknowledged them that should be enough for awhile. This feels like a feature where FM really need to spend some time 'under the hood' working on it as it should be key part of the game and instead is just easily skippable. 

Transfers

I really didn't like transfer values at first but now I'm a huge fan. It gets rid of the stupid 'player is valued at £500k but when you bid the club asks for £80m' stuff you used to get. There are some flaws (FC Kobenhaven setting Jonas Wind's value at £80m for instance due to it being mid season, when IRL they sold him for £10m) but it is still much better than it was.

Contract demands can be a bit crazy still and there is still the weird issue of a player rejecting a deal with a human ran club before signing a significantly lesser deal elsewhere but I see that less than before.

Player interactions 

This needs a lot of work. The frequency of complaints and the limited responses often missing really obvious choices to respond to topics can be very frustrating. The AI here needs an awful lot of work. There have been enough other people posting about this, I don't think I need to add anything more.

Overall is is a huge step forward on FM20, especially from the match engine. In general I'm having quite a bit of fun playing the game and have more than got my monies worth but still lots that can be improved on. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by KingCanary

[Metal]

This match just sums up the quality of finishing in the game while the AI only needs 1-2 attempts to score their first goal, your team needs 20 before they score. The AI goalkeeper regardless of quality manages to pull out super human save after save. There needs to be some balance going forward because this is ridiculous and atrocious.

Shame on you who complained about strikers during the first released version of the game, well done pat yourselves on the back now they are neutered 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Metal