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FM22 - Juego de Posicion, a positional play variant of Total Football


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3 minutes ago, prched55 said:

I also use a Target Forward with move into channels PI. The TF is quickly becoming one of my favorite roles in FM22.

I started with a Target Forward, as they are seeming really awesome in this ME so far. I changed away from it because I didn't feel like personnel wise it was appropriate with City. I think it can have some excellent results in FM though this year. Load a guy like Dusan Vlahovic onto City, and he will be a monster with a TF role, same with Halaand, but he's just broken any way you use him.

Thanks for the feedback, glad someone gave it a shot and has seen some virtue out of it. Definitely makes sense to use wingers if those are the players you have. Do you find them hoofing too many crosses into the box combined with you using a TF?

 

Edited by 04texag
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25 minutes ago, 04texag said:

I apologize for getting overly upset about this. I think it's some hang on from last year, but not you specifically. I did a Barca replication, from one very specific look, and very few people on these forums will actually load up what you're saying and try it before offering tons of advice about trying it differently. 

I remember your name from before and you've been a great addition in the past, so I apologize for taking things personally. I think I was frustrated yesterday as I was really close to posting that this tactic is probably one of my absolute favorite recreations, playing brilliantly in both FM21 and FM22, and no one will even give it a shot. That's not on you but me.

I'm giving it a shot! 

Also playing as City to start with. 

First match of the season, really impressed with the play and control it gave (away at United)! 

As you have said, some very familiar patterns of play to IRL.

Bear in mind most players only just returned to training so there has been zero chance to get them familiar with the tactic. 

For some of them, like Grealish, it was his first game back.

image.png.51efb12a0cb252dcca00d24c41a6ba3f.png

Please keep up the posting, loving the updates.

 

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34 minutes ago, 04texag said:

Do you find them hoofing too many crosses into the box combined with you using a TF?

Define too many. Haha. I have both sides on overlap and work ball into box so that coupled with lower tempo the wingers do hold the ball up often and do cut backs. I think when some teams sit back there is a tendency for a lot of crosses. But it's OK, my TF has one of the highest Jumping reaches in the league.

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3 minutes ago, Shirts said:

I'm giving it a shot! 

Also playing as City to start with. 

First match of the season, really impressed with the play and control it gave (away at United)! 

As you have said, some very familiar patterns of play to IRL.

Bear in mind most players only just returned to training so there has been zero chance to get them familiar with the tactic. 

For some of them, like Grealish, it was his first game back.

image.png.51efb12a0cb252dcca00d24c41a6ba3f.png

Please keep up the posting, loving the updates.

 

I'll be interested to hear once they get some familiarity how they fare. Unfortunately for me, in my test save Grealish got hurt in the second game and was out for like  3 months :(

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1 minute ago, prched55 said:

Define too many. Haha. I have both sides on overlap and work ball into box so that coupled with lower tempo the wingers do hold the ball up often and do cut backs. I think when some teams sit back there is a tendency for a lot of crosses. But it's OK, my TF has one of the highest Jumping reaches in the league.

That's great! And one thing to note, City do put in a lot of crosses, typically in situations like you described. When teams sit really deep, they will start upping the crosses. I was watching a FM match yesterday and Walker launched a cross into the far post, and I had 4 players in the box making moves. It was very nice.

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Just now, 04texag said:

That's great! And one thing to note, City do put in a lot of crosses, typically in situations like you described. When teams sit really deep, they will start upping the crosses. I was watching a FM match yesterday and Walker launched a cross into the far post, and I had 4 players in the box making moves. It was very nice.

Not to discuss other people's complaints about the ME, but I think people really underestimate the amount of goals top teams score from crosses. Especially low, hard driven crosses that people put in their feet. Which happens a lot with this tactic and is awesome.

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5 hours ago, 04texag said:

I apologize for getting overly upset about this. I think it's some hang on from last year, but not you specifically. I did a Barca replication, from one very specific look, and very few people on these forums will actually load up what you're saying and try it before offering tons of advice about trying it differently. 

I remember your name from before and you've been a great addition in the past, so I apologize for taking things personally. I think I was frustrated yesterday as I was really close to posting that this tactic is probably one of my absolute favorite recreations, playing brilliantly in both FM21 and FM22, and no one will even give it a shot. That's not on you but me.

I’m giving it a shot with City and to be honest the movements are really good, I’ve seen why you insist on using an Anchorman.  I tried using a HB but I didn’t like how he moved and helped in build up. My only concerns so far are;

1. The through balls are most of the time over hit (I think it’s the ME) so scoring is pretty difficult.

2. I feel like I’m the only one who doesn’t like low crosses or rather I’m the only one that Low crosses doesn’t work for. 90% of the crosses are blocked. How do you get them to work? I’m desperate at this point haha

3. This isn’t really a concern but I’m 3  games in and I noticed teams are going long against us, this has happened with Everton, Leicester and United (they had McTominay sent off), and so far are they are getting in behind easily. I don’t know if it’s because the team is still getting used to the tactic.

All in all, I think so far you’ve nailed it and I’m excited to see where this goes and the many other tweaks you’d make to the tactic.

Just to add to this, I used this tactic in my Newcastle save for 3 games and my team played some really beautiful stuff, maybe due to the fact that the teams I faced didn’t sit back so I was able to exploit the spaces. My last game was vs Spurs and I lost 5-1. Most of the goals were because my players were pressed and lost the ball or because they were under pressure they made the wrong pass, and we got countered.

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1 hour ago, UtdRaz said:

I’m giving it a shot with City and to be honest the movements are really good, I’ve seen why you insist on using an Anchorman.  I tried using a HB but I didn’t like how he moved and helped in build up. My only concerns so far are;

1. The through balls are most of the time over hit (I think it’s the ME) so scoring is pretty difficult.

2. I feel like I’m the only one who doesn’t like low crosses or rather I’m the only one that Low crosses doesn’t work for. 90% of the crosses are blocked. How do you get them to work? I’m desperate at this point haha

3. This isn’t really a concern but I’m 3  games in and I noticed teams are going long against us, this has happened with Everton, Leicester and United (they had McTominay sent off), and so far are they are getting in behind easily. I don’t know if it’s because the team is still getting used to the tactic.

All in all, I think so far you’ve nailed it and I’m excited to see where this goes and the many other tweaks you’d make to the tactic.

Just to add to this, I used this tactic in my Newcastle save for 3 games and my team played some really beautiful stuff, maybe due to the fact that the teams I faced didn’t sit back so I was able to exploit the spaces. My last game was vs Spurs and I lost 5-1. Most of the goals were because my players were pressed and lost the ball or because they were under pressure they made the wrong pass, and we got countered.

Hey, good stuff. Thanks for the feedback. 

1. I haven't had those issues, maybe just with low percentage passes you have been unlucky with them so far?

2. Go ahead and give mixed crosses a go, should be fine. Crosses are in fact annoying with the frequency of the match engine showing a blocked cross. I don't have an answer here

3. Try a few tweaks through OI, opposition instructions. I always select to mark tighter on a single forward, the most advanced if 2. I have also been marking to close down more the midfield, and then show onto the weak side foot for the FBs. Those things might help some.

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Il y a 5 heures, UtdRaz a dit :

Just to add to this, I used this tactic in my Newcastle save for 3 games and my team played some really beautiful stuff, maybe due to the fact that the teams I faced didn’t sit back so I was able to exploit the spaces. My last game was vs Spurs and I lost 5-1. Most of the goals were because my players were pressed and lost the ball or because they were under pressure they made the wrong pass, and we got countered.

have you bought players or are you using the original squad? 
I was going to test the tactic in the second half of the season after making some transfers because I'm not sure the Newcastle players are suited to this tactic 

 

+ thank you for your work @04texag, this is an interesting thread

Edited by Bismack
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1 minute ago, Bismack said:

have you bought players or are you using the original squad? 
I was going to test the tactic in the second half of the season after making some transfers because I'm not sure the Newcastle players are suited to this tactic 

Yeah I bought a whole new starting line up. Almada, Bennacer, Belotti, Oscar(Sevilla), Lodi, Mancini, Lacroix, Menino, Weigl.

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il y a 9 minutes, UtdRaz a dit :

Yeah I bought a whole new starting line up. Almada, Bennacer, Belotti, Oscar(Sevilla), Lodi, Mancini, Lacroix, Menino, Weigl.

ok, I was planning to buy Lacroix and Almada too 

thank you for the quick reply 

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19 minutes ago, Bismack said:

ok, I was planning to buy Lacroix and Almada too 

thank you for the quick reply 

At the beginning of a save in FM22 you can get Gaetano Castrovilli from Florentina for a steal. He's a great looking mezzala. 

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4 hours ago, 04texag said:

Hey, good stuff. Thanks for the feedback. 

1. I haven't had those issues, maybe just with low percentage passes you have been unlucky with them so far?

2. Go ahead and give mixed crosses a go, should be fine. Crosses are in fact annoying with the frequency of the match engine showing a blocked cross. I don't have an answer here

3. Try a few tweaks through OI, opposition instructions. I always select to mark tighter on a single forward, the most advanced if 2. I have also been marking to close down more the midfield, and then show onto the weak side foot for the FBs. Those things might help some.

The major issues I run into re: passing are poor long passes(switching play), very poor through balls and I think it’s the ME because City have very technical players, De Bruyne, Silva, Foden & co. but always overhit the through balls.

I’m also thinking of dropping the defensive line(line of engagement) down to standard, teams just go long and don’t bother trying to play, maybe that will prevent a lot of those balls in behind but I don’t know if it will mean the ball has to travel a longer distance(from CBs to Mezzalas)

We are finding it hard converting chances, we create not so much but when we create chances they are usually of the highest quality but I noticed our finishing is poor, half the time they are passing the ball to the keeper.

I watch the game on comprehensive so I’m able to see all these issues.

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I've used low crosses in a couple of different tactics with Arsenal and City in the beta and full game, I'm a big fan of how they work out.

With City, using the tactic created by @04texag I've scored a few really nice near post tap ins that we tend to see them create in real life.

With Arsenal I've been using my own 3-4-2AM-1, with Saka as a CWBa on the left. His interactions with Smith Rowe as the left sided AM pegging the opposition full back lead to so many low cut backs for Saka to put to the near post, it's quite entertaining to watch.

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9 hours ago, UtdRaz said:

The major issues I run into re: passing are poor long passes(switching play), very poor through balls and I think it’s the ME because City have very technical players, De Bruyne, Silva, Foden & co. but always overhit the through balls.

I’m also thinking of dropping the defensive line(line of engagement) down to standard, teams just go long and don’t bother trying to play, maybe that will prevent a lot of those balls in behind but I don’t know if it will mean the ball has to travel a longer distance(from CBs to Mezzalas)

We are finding it hard converting chances, we create not so much but when we create chances they are usually of the highest quality but I noticed our finishing is poor, half the time they are passing the ball to the keeper.

I watch the game on comprehensive so I’m able to see all these issues.

I've actually been having better results outside of the premier league with this tactic. I think with some of the new marking ai, cb are really good at closing down space and passing Lanes. I think crossing is still overpowered in the new ME and this tactic is like the opposite of what is working really well in the FM22 me. 

Outside of the PL with a top team, where the average defense is lesser, this tactic is shredding. Or, in FM21, it's working wonders there. 

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@UtdRaz I wasn't thinking of it earlier, but some TI tweaks I do sometimes when I need to switch things up. This might be helpful to try.

 

When teams are not pressing, the default works well as players might dribble more. If you are getting closed down some, then try dribble less and the team will really ping the ball around. 

If struggling to create chances, you can try works ball in the box and up the tempo one notch. I've also at times turned the pressing up to 10, but not for long stretches, so max pressing and increase to much higher engagement. Try to force the opponent into a mistake.

Another thing that can be helpful, is to force some position switching. If using City for example, start moving KDB around from the right Mez slot. Move him to the right flank AP, up top and switch to F9, or move him to the left Mez. This can sometimes throw off the marking and create opportunities.

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1 hour ago, 04texag said:

I've actually been having better results outside of the premier league with this tactic. I think with some of the new marking ai, cb are really good at closing down space and passing Lanes. I think crossing is still overpowered in the new ME and this tactic is like the opposite of what is working really well in the FM22 me. 

Outside of the PL with a top team, where the average defense is lesser, this tactic is shredding. Or, in FM21, it's working wonders there. 

I made a few tweaks and I’ve seen some improvements, so here’s what I did;

1. I changed the CF(s) to DLF(a) and it’s helped drag out CBs for the Mez to run into. The DLF also hold ups play and helps in build up too which I like.

2. I dropped the line of engagement to standard & those balls over the top aren’t a problem anymore.

3. I’ve also stopped using OI and somehow it has helped.

4. I also changed the mentality to Positive and this has made it exactly to my taste.

My only challenge so far is the lack of goals.

Edited by UtdRaz
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7 minutes ago, UtdRaz said:

I made a few tweaks and I’ve seen some improvements, so here’s what I did;

1. I changed the CF(s) to DLF(a) and it’s helped drag out CBs for the Mez to run into. The DLF also hold ups play and helps in build up too which I like.

2. I dropped the line of engagement to standard & those balls over the top aren’t a problem anymore.

3. I’ve also stopped using OI and somehow it has helped.

4. I also changed the mentality to Positive and this has made it exactly to my taste.

My only challenge so far is the lack of goals.

Awesome. Those are some good sounding tweaks. I think the issue with using City is that they really don't have the personnel up top IMO. At time Ferran Torres looked great for me, and I really like him as a player, but I don't think he is a big enough presence to really pull defenders around. You plug a high reputation elite striker in, it'll play way different. The DLF change makes sense to force that issue some, a TF would do it too I think.

I think it's interesting with the balls over the top. I did see it some when playing as city, but with every other team I've used this tactic with, it has been the most defensively stable tactic I think I've ever made (high possession pressing tactics). But of course, do what works for your game, and it makes sense to leave counter pressing on but drop to standard. You'll save your players stamina as well.

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1 minute ago, 04texag said:

Awesome. Those are some good sounding tweaks. I think the issue with using City is that they really don't have the personnel up top IMO. At time Ferran Torres looked great for me, and I really like him as a player, but I don't think he is a big enough presence to really pull defenders around. You plug a high reputation elite striker in, it'll play way different. The DLF change makes sense to force that issue some, a TF would do it too I think.

I think it's interesting with the balls over the top. I did see it some when playing as city, but with every other team I've used this tactic with, it has been the most defensively stable tactic I think I've ever made (high possession pressing tactics). But of course, do what works for your game, and it makes sense to leave counter pressing on but drop to standard. You'll save your players stamina as well.

I bought Belotti for the meant time before I go in for Haaland or Mbappe or probably Vlahovic next season. But he’s been so good, once I changed the role to DLF immediately I could see a difference. Who do you think I should go for out of those 3 strikers?? Who would best suit the system?

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2 minutes ago, UtdRaz said:

I bought Belotti for the meant time before I go in for Haaland or Mbappe or probably Vlahovic next season. But he’s been so good, once I changed the role to DLF immediately I could see a difference. Who do you think I should go for out of those 3 strikers?? Who would best suit the system?

I haven't tested any of them in this system. That said, in a dream team signing scenario at Newcastle, I brought Vlahovic in and he murdered the PL. Goals galore. I think he would do very well and save money for other spending needs.

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Enjoying this with Barcelona, I made a mirrored tactic to put the AP(a) on the left (to suit Depay/Fati). Incredibly strong defensively, have only conceded 6 goals in 25 league games so far. Not a high scoring tactic but you do keep the ball and don't give up too many chances to the opposition

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Really enjoyed your FM20 thread so been trying this out with Las Palmas. I'm absolutely dominating possession (70% on average and I've even played the league favourites) but I'm creating almost nothing. I've only managed over 1xG in a single match so far unfortunately. Feels like they should have a pretty good team for it, a lot of creative midfielders.

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2 hours ago, Shamikebab said:

Really enjoyed your FM20 thread so been trying this out with Las Palmas. I'm absolutely dominating possession (70% on average and I've even played the league favourites) but I'm creating almost nothing. I've only managed over 1xG in a single match so far unfortunately. Feels like they should have a pretty good team for it, a lot of creative midfielders.

Ya I'm not sure if this tactic is the best fit for someone that's not league favorite or close. I don't imagine Pep at a mid table team would play this way before bringing in new players. 

Maybe try changing the wing roles. Depending on players maybe go for winger S or IW a/s. 

Or, you could try playing the more creative mids out wide, and more physical, fast players in the Mez/half space

Edited by 04texag
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 25/11/2021 at 11:15, JahRastafari said:

How's the development going on this tactic @04texag? I am gonna purchase FM22 for the upcoming holiday weeks. Gonna give this 4-3-3 tactical thinking a try with Ajax incorporating youth development and club culture, besides a 3-4-3 tactic using the new center back role. 

Hey, I'm actually not fully playing FM22 yet so this is kind of on hold. My last save on FM21 is just too good to give up yet, so riding that one off into the sunset still.

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  • 1 month later...

It's been a while since I was on this site and following tactical threads. I adopted a tactic similar to your 4-2-3-1 Possession tactic in FM21 and had great success with it at Celta Vigo. For FM22, I carried it over in my save for Lazio, and, again, it's working fairly well. But one thing I've noticed is that my regular wing backs both have a tendency to underperform in the 4-2-3-1 (ratings under 6.5), but their results improve if I go to the 4-3-3 DM (when I do, my DM is an anchor). I suspect this is because with an anchor dropping back, the two CBs would spread a bit more to the outside, reducing the space the WBs need to cover, taking pressure off them. If so, that's a change from FM21 and a nice, subtle development. I'm wondering if that was part of your thinking in moving to the 4-3-3-DM.

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  • 5 months later...

This is truly amazing bro. The amount of effort and dedication towards this shows in ur content. This is so far the best recreation ive seen so far(no cap)

Edited by awesomeveekthor
realized what i needed was stated in the previous post
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On 23/06/2022 at 08:15, awesomeveekthor said:

This is truly amazing bro. The amount of effort and dedication towards this shows in ur content. This is so far the best recreation ive seen so far(no cap)

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback!

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