Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II passes away. 21st April 1926 - 8th September 2022.

[Bagpuss]

4 hours ago, foolsgold said:

And to respond to the actual point, no one is 'losing their collective rag'. People just don't enjoy being forced into 'mourning' for someone they've never met. If you'd like to mourn, by all means, go ahead, pay your respects that's no problem.

On a less important level, there are absolutely elements of it being forced on you. ITV displaying the funeral all day long, without adverts, that's fair enough. But nothing says freedom of thought like having the exact same thing also broadcast non-stop on ITV2, ITV3, ITV4, ITV4, ITVBe and ITV Hub. I know it's not the same thing, but it's the sort of thing we'd mock North Korea for . 

But on a more serious note, people have lives to lead. Businesses will close in a cost of living crisis. Cancelled appointments in the NHS mean that it is almost a categorical fact that there will be deaths as a consequence. People who have worked hard year-round for a holiday are now forced to miss out on part of it and stay in their accommodation. These are genuine impacts that could hurt people, and something people are totally justified in being hacked off with.

I'm not even anti-royal, but at least these moaners you mention are free thinking and not just following the directive of what you must do. Trying to siphon this into a 'younger generation are snowflakes' type argument is very rich, considering how some of the older generations behave. And it's probably a lot easier to be pro-establishment when you're not part of a generation where the state actively tries to make things as difficult as possible at every facet of your life.

Not just ITV i looked and all the sky channels doing same thing includig ALL movie and sports channels

[The_jagster]

4 hours ago, foolsgold said:

And to respond to the actual point, no one is 'losing their collective rag'. People just don't enjoy being forced into 'mourning' for someone they've never met. If you'd like to mourn, by all means, go ahead, pay your respects that's no problem.

On a less important level, there are absolutely elements of it being forced on you. ITV displaying the funeral all day long, without adverts, that's fair enough. But nothing says freedom of thought like having the exact same thing also broadcast non-stop on ITV2, ITV3, ITV4, ITV4, ITVBe and ITV Hub. I know it's not the same thing, but it's the sort of thing we'd mock North Korea for . 

But on a more serious note, people have lives to lead. Businesses will close in a cost of living crisis. Cancelled appointments in the NHS mean that it is almost a categorical fact that there will be deaths as a consequence. People who have worked hard year-round for a holiday are now forced to miss out on part of it and stay in their accommodation. These are genuine impacts that could hurt people, and something people are totally justified in being hacked off with.

I'm not even anti-royal, but at least these moaners you mention are free thinking and not just following the directive of what you must do. Trying to siphon this into a 'younger generation are snowflakes' type argument is very rich, considering how some of the older generations behave. And it's probably a lot easier to be pro-establishment when you're not part of a generation where the state actively tries to make things as difficult as possible at every facet of your life.

 

4 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

It's ironic you talk of belittling, while generalising and belittling a) an entire generation and b) people put out by this. 

I assume you're aware that thousands have had surgeries and medical procedures cancelled as a result, and even funerals postponed. Things that are clearly important and matter to them. 

It's extremely telling that you sweep anyone grumbling about it as anti royal, it's anti British. Incredibly narrow minded to be brutally honest

The mourning isn't "forced" onto anyone. However heavy handed the police have been in some settings they won't be coming round to check you are watching the funeral on Monday or arresting you are having a laugh with your mates on the street.

As people who moan about women's football or LGBT inclusive programmes get told, if you don't like it you can watch something else on YouTube and watch anti-
monarchy arguments if you like.

"The option of whether to cancel planned operations has been devolved to local trusts, according to Open Democracy.

The National Association of Funeral Directors said that while some planned funerals will go ahead on Monday, others have been postponed. It said the decision to change dates had been led by the bereaved families involved."

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/sep/13/hospital-appointments-and-funerals-cancelled-for-queens-funeral

According to this treatments are decided by the trusts and funeral plans by the affected families and not imposed on them.

Now I accept that it's not simply the fault of the NHS trust that things aren't going on as a normal Monday.

However if people are moaning about not being able to do stuff at centre parcs then that does have the whiff of snowflake about it. People book holidays and find it's wet so can't do what they want all the time.

[profii]

Wonder if all the people who complain and such like will try and go to work on Monday 

[sc91]

8 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

Not just ITV i looked and all the sky channels doing same thing includig ALL movie and sports channels

What .

That's absolutely potty.

[sc91]

Just now, profii said:

Wonder if all the people who complain and such like will try and go to work on Monday 

We can't, they're shut. 

[Bigwig]

I think we’re going to take a drive and then go for a long walk along the beach with the dog. Guessing things will be a lot quieter. 

[Heartwork]

Due to comedy not being allowed in the UK at the moment we have to look to the US for satirical takes on the news

 

[Heartwork]

5 hours ago, foolsgold said:

It's absolutely incredible how lacking in self-awareness the older generations are.

With the older generations, business owners etc. it feels like a race to see how self-destructively patriotic you can be by completely cancelling everything for the funeral.

[profii]

15 minutes ago, sc91 said:

We can't, they're shut. 

But you'd give the day off up if you could, right?

[SouthCoastRed]

5 hours ago, foolsgold said:

It's absolutely incredible how lacking in self-awareness the older generations are.

Oi, don't tar all geriatrics with the same brush. 
 

The worst over reactions aren't those moaning about the whole ceremonial pomp, it's the nonsensical reaction from the businesses and organisations (which to remake yesterday's round and round the houses, you can't blame the Royals for). 
 

And absolutely agree, having been through the nightmare that is cancer care, I can't imagine my reaction if we were told a week in advance that potentially life extending treatments were delayed or cancelled because someone wanted to watch a funeral.
 

I'd probably create a few more funerals tbh.  

[sc91]

13 minutes ago, profii said:

But you'd give the day off up if you could, right?

Yeah. 

[cyclonus1010]

We were going to work the Monday but when basically all our foam suppliers decide they are having Monday off, they told us yesterday afternoon that we are having the Monday off too.

Usually a 12:30pm finish on Friday but have a feeling they'll ask for a typical 7:30-4:30pm day instead, try and get a few of those hours lost back.

Which is fair enough.

Edited September 15, 2022 by cyclonus1010

[anagain]

4 hours ago, Christmas said:

Overreaction posts are difficult because now I'm overreacting to your overreacting, but in my view the true over reaction is shutting down the country, turning off supermarket beeps, queueing for a day to see a fetid box, and moaning about the skin colour of fictional dwarves.

I don't see how raising questions about that collective, competitive, madness and questioning the objectively repugnant concept of monarchy or their entrenched systems of wealth retention is an overreaction, but that's perhaps subjective. 

TBH, and I'm surprised by the reaction, but my post was meant tongue in cheek. It was an another "crap night at work post your current thoughts on the bog" post. My humour can be subtle and I do tend to say what I think. Probably too much. 😁 Clearly didn't come across on this forum. 

It did amuse me to see people asking "but what if I wanted to go shopping" and getting upset because someone might say "well go Sunday, you fool". 

There's bits of it that aren't great. The Centre Parks reaction was stupid. I actually said in twitter that they should have just let staff have a day off if they wanted it and apologised if there was a reduced service that day. To tell people not to travel for rooms they had booked was poorly thought through.

Hospitals is another unfortunate, but I see it has since been said not everything should stop. The Royals aren't uncaring, as many would have us believe. I also wonder how many people who might think a day off for this is ludicrous and potentially dangerous for health but would have been quite in favour of train strikes and said any hospital issues were just unfortunate and to cancel or find another way there. I know people said that and I'm sure the correlation is high.

I don't think the monarchy is repugnant. As I said I'm not massively pro-royal myself but my opinion has altered in it existing. Nothing to say it can't be scaled back though. It angered me that Charles doesn't pay inheritance tax when any normal person would.

Ive changed views a lot over the past year. Done a lot of genealogy and I read a lot of history. The world was **** in history and many, many people suffered. My own ancestors suffered massively because they were poor, but in no way similar to slavery, unless you consider that, as pretty much serfs, they did as their landowner said or they were left to their own devices. I have documents of how ancestors were bound to a landowner and paid a pittance for very hard work. Again slavery was far worse. Its not just Britain that was in that market. The king of Belgium went over to Congo promising to better the country and started a period of massive mistreatment. US forefathers are highly thought of but most were known to have many slaves. 

History was very different though and guided very much by religion. Things they did were wrong but we can't change them, only learn from them.

Genealogy made me think differently about family and in turn made my views different when the Queen died. I think a lot of people, many young yes, have views on the monarchy with a degree of ignorance. I know I did. Combine that with the privileges of modern life, that history didn't have, and it really makes me wonder why they often think they're so hard done by. Because they can't shop for a day? Because the TV has 24/7 royal coverage? Watch something else. 

I think there was also a lot about Liz that people just ignore. She was very anti apartheid and very close with Mandela because he respected her stance on that subject. She also clashed with politicians early in her reign because they didn't like how she interacted with other nations and their people. But she was the standard of imperialism to some?

The monarchy is largely symbolic. The monarch has powers but they are rarely used. Liz prefered to stay out of politics. Opening and closing parliament was symbolic and she left the choosing of PMs up to parliament.

All stuff I've learnt since Thursday.

As to the wall to wall coverage that has been mentioned by some in reply to me, well many sports have a lot of coverage on stuff that many don't like but I'm sure sports fans would argue it is fine and warranted.

The Ukraine war was wall to wall but I suspect different too.

We live in an age with countless channels and subscription services and criticism of what is on the 4 original channels. No one is forced to watch BBC1. Yes, too much coverage can be tiring but no one sits and tells you to watch. Comparisons to North Korea or Russia are nonsense.

Anyone is entitled to a view. I was happy for anti-royals to protest and respected one guy for the rationality of his views on twitter and that he chose to express his views away from mourners. I liked his views because it showed people can get on no matter differing opinions. But people who stood up in front of the crowds, whose views should be respected too, and protested were fools just wishing to antagonise and deserved to be moved in. Thought the police were heavy handed at first but it was said they changed their approach.

People won't agree (I make no apology for that) but also maybe I was wrong to be jokey and probably wasn't clear enough. I'll aim my humour differently in future. People do overreact on these divides though. When opinions are strong that happens.

Rambled on way too much, but aside from my jokey nature I try to look at the world with the use of knowledge as to why its that way.

Comparing this country to N Korea or Russia because we have a period of mourning, that is in no way forced, is ridiculous.

But give Truss a chance. It could get closer. If people are going to be worried about any part of our society then worry about her and her cronies. Way worse than the monarchy. 

[profii]

15 minutes ago, sc91 said:

Yeah. 

i think people can protest that... if the directive is to stop work and mourn, you can do the opposite and find something to do. Even as simple as If the anti-monarchy people organised a litter pick and framed it as "we are doing something because we've been told not to work therefore its a protest". No one is gonna argue that it's offensive like the people heckling the processions.... the only real response is fair enough i respect you have a view. I dont think a protest needs to be destructive/antagonistic to be effective. 

 

I reckon a lot of anti monarchists will happily take the day though

[foolsgold]

1 hour ago, The_jagster said:

 

The mourning isn't "forced" onto anyone. However heavy handed the police have been in some settings they won't be coming round to check you are watching the funeral on Monday or arresting you are having a laugh with your mates on the street.

As people who moan about women's football or LGBT inclusive programmes get told, if you don't like it you can watch something else on YouTube and watch anti-
monarchy arguments if you like.

When was the last time women's football took over the exclusive 100% attention of all football coverage?

24 minutes ago, SouthCoastRed said:

Oi, don't tar all geriatrics with the same brush. 
 

The worst over reactions aren't those moaning about the whole ceremonial pomp, it's the nonsensical reaction from the businesses and organisations (which to remake yesterday's round and round the houses, you can't blame the Royals for). 
 

And absolutely agree, having been through the nightmare that is cancer care, I can't imagine my reaction if we were told a week in advance that potentially life extending treatments were delayed or cancelled because someone wanted to watch a funeral.
 

I'd probably create a few more funerals tbh.  

Yeah I should add that I don't actually think all old people are like this . Just the ones who tend to complain about snowflakes and lazy young'uns...

Edited September 15, 2022 by foolsgold

[Vynal Seven]

4 minutes ago, profii said:

No one is gonna argue that it's offensive like the people heckling the processions....

You sure?
 

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/despicable-amateur-football-teams-in-sheffield-face-punishment-for-playing-after-queens-death-12697344

[sc91]

4 minutes ago, profii said:

i think people can protest that... if the directive is to stop work and mourn, you can do the opposite and find something to do. Even as simple as If the anti-monarchy people organised a litter pick and framed it as "we are doing something because we've been told not to work therefore its a protest". No one is gonna argue that it's offensive like the people heckling the processions.... the only real response is fair enough i respect you have a view. I dont think a protest needs to be destructive/antagonistic to be effective. 

 

I reckon a lot of anti monarchists will happily take the day though

If you're an atheist, should you work Christmas Day?

[profii]

1 minute ago, sc91 said:

If you're an atheist, should you work Christmas Day?

if you think religious holidays shouldnt be intertwined with national holidays, sure

[profii]

2 minutes ago, Vynal Seven said:

You sure?
 

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/despicable-amateur-football-teams-in-sheffield-face-punishment-for-playing-after-queens-death-12697344

in the context of a protest that's what you want tho, when people start objecting to people litter picking as an example to air a view, its a lot harder to try and make the argument 'they shouldnt have their free speech at this time'

[sc91]

2 minutes ago, profii said:

if you think religious holidays shouldnt be intertwined with national holidays, sure

More the logic of needing to associate with the reason for the day off in order to have it.

[profii]

i get it, i was being slightly facetious - seems like an easy way to have an opportunity to have a constructive protest  which has been one of the major debating points over the last few days

[oche balboa]

I admire the people who are queuing to see the Queen lying in state. 13-15 hours of all ages, faiths, people in wheelchairs etc. Wonderful stuff 

[Rafalution]

1 hour ago, The_jagster said:

As people who moan about women's football or LGBT inclusive programmes get told, if you don't like it you can watch something else on YouTube and watch anti-
monarchy arguments if you like.

The coverage of women's football or LGBT inclusive programming is nothing like magnitude of whats going on now and its pretty disingenuous to suggest it is. 

Quote

"The option of whether to cancel planned operations has been devolved to local trusts, according to Open Democracy.

The National Association of Funeral Directors said that while some planned funerals will go ahead on Monday, others have been postponed. It said the decision to change dates had been led by the bereaved families involved."

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/sep/13/hospital-appointments-and-funerals-cancelled-for-queens-funeral

According to this treatments are decided by the trusts and funeral plans by the affected families and not imposed on them.

.

 

There are plenty of stories of families of having their funerals cancelled who didn't want it. 'Led by bereaved families involved' sounds like a get-out, what does led by mean? If a handful of families  asked for funerals to be moved you could say it's been led by them, even if it was only the opinion of a tiny minority. 

Quote

Now I accept that it's not simply the fault of the NHS trust that things aren't going on as a normal Monday

From what i've read its mainly a case of due to how people's contracts are written and trust/hospital departmental rules means there isn't any feasible realistic way they could keep non-emergency units open. (i think there might be some trusts that can and are doing?)

Quote

However if people are moaning about not being able to do stuff at centre parcs then that does have the whiff of snowflake about it. People book holidays and find it's wet so can't do what they want all the time.

Another stupid comparison. You book a holiday knowing this is a possibility, you don't book one expecting the venue to kick you out for a 24hr period in the middle. There's nothing 'snowflake' about this and making an equivalency between things in the businesses control and things outside it is just silly (not to mention i'm sure there is indoor stuff you can do at centre parcs normally when it rains). People have a right to be annoyed that their holiday is getting screwed up when it doesn't need to be. 

 

I mean ****, people weren't even allowed to do stuff they could do. Those two teams in sheffield are getting in trouble because they had the disrespect to play a friendly with each other when their league game got cancelled, rather than sitting at home crying or whatever they were meant to do. Do you think they are snowflakes for not sacking off the game?

I don't get how you can say 

Quote

The mourning isn't "forced" onto anyone.

when the above happened

Edited September 15, 2022 by Rafalution

[Darren Moores Mum]

If my work is going to pay me to have a day off I'm taking it. I'm a republican not an idiot. Ridiculous argument. 

[arenaross]

11 minutes ago, oche balboa said:

I admire the people who are queuing to see the Queen lying in state. 13-15 hours of all ages, faiths, people in wheelchairs etc. Wonderful stuff 

Why? It's bonkers. And creepy. 

BBC News had a couple of huns who'd bought their dead husband's ashes with them to pay their respects. 

[Christmas]

17 minutes ago, oche balboa said:

I admire the people who are queuing to see the Queen lying in state. 13-15 hours of all ages, faiths, people in wheelchairs etc. Wonderful stuff 

Can you provide any explanation as to why its wonderful? 

I think people should be free to go if they want, but I struggle to see how one person's action one way or the other warrants admiration. 

My very personal view is that there is something a bit vain about going, and odd mix of nosiness coupled with a perceived fear of 'missing out on something big'. I find the concept that actually looking at the box is something big to have  something of the emperor's new clothes about it. The world is my church, etc. 

Kind of feels like you've just copy and pasted a vapid Darren grimes tweet just to troll

Edited September 15, 2022 by Christmas

[Rafalution]

3 minutes ago, ginnybob said:

If my work is going to pay me to have a day off I'm taking it. I'm a republican not an idiot. Ridiculous argument. 

Same - the argument is stupid because we don't really get any say in the bank holidays we get, and no one is arguing against bank holidays as a concept. I'd quite happily give up this monday one, or christmas, or easter, if we were allowed to choose our own bank holidays at other times instead.  

[deltablue]

I had a phone call with my grandfather a couple of days ago and when he asked me whether it was a mistake to call off the football, he agreed with me when I said that it was. This is from someone who had actually met the Queen (and various other members of the royal family) on many occasions and clearly had great respect for her, so it's interesting that even someone like him didn't feel like such gestures were required or should be expected as a supposed mark of respect.

[arenaross]

 

 

[Darren Moores Mum]

Finally common sense prevails:

 

Bing is a right little arsehole

[oche balboa]

21 minutes ago, Christmas said:

Can you provide any explanation as to why its wonderful? 

I think people should be free to go if they want, but I struggle to see how one person's action one way or the other warrants admiration. 

My very personal view is that there is something a bit vain about going, and odd mix of nosiness coupled with a perceived fear of 'missing out on something big'. I find the concept that actually looking at the box is something big to have  something of the emperor's new clothes about it. The world is my church, etc. 

Kind of feels like you've just copy and pasted a vapid Darren grimes tweet just to troll

People want to pay there respects. I admire their stamina. of course you think its vain (You dont like the Royal Family). I don't see me admiring them wants more justification 

[Christmas]

Just now, oche balboa said:

People want to pay there respects. I admire their stamina. of course you think its vain (You dont like the Royal Family). I don't see me admiring them wants more justification 

Just empty faux patriotic platitudes then. Got you. 

I do agree people have the right to go and nod at are queen 

[Bigwig]

The cynic in me says people are starting to make up outlandish signs cancelling stuff for internet cred, a bit like the anti work stuff.

I’m pretty sure if I typed up a notice saying that the pedestrian crossing was unavailable as a sign of respect and posted a photo of it online people would lap it up without questioning it. 

[oche balboa]

Just now, Christmas said:

Just empty faux patriotic platitudes then. Got you. 

I do agree people have the right to go and nod at are queen 

For you it is. Its not for anyone else its a historic moment  

[Darren Moores Mum]

2 minutes ago, Bigwig said:

The cynic in me says people are starting to make up outlandish signs cancelling stuff for internet cred, a bit like the anti work stuff.

I’m pretty sure if I typed up a notice saying that the pedestrian crossing was unavailable as a sign of respect and posted a photo of it online people would lap it up without questioning it. 

I mean, supermarkets have turned off their checkout beeps. It needs to be particularly outlandish to outdo what is actually happening.

[oche balboa]

No music played at the Albion vs Blues game. 

[SouthCoastRed]

Personally I'll be glad when it's all over, every post I find myself agreeing with Oche is like a dagger through my heart and I can't take much more of that 

[oche balboa]

1 minute ago, SouthCoastRed said:

Personally I'll be glad when it's all over, every post I find myself agreeing with Oche is like a dagger through my heart and I can't take much more of that 

Careful. People will talk 

[Sons FC]

18 hours ago, SouthCoastRed said:

I was thinking that when they set off, perhaps they shift Vicky 60 feet to the left and have a double roundabout 

70 feet surely? or just cancel it out of respect.

[Mr_Whippy]

33 minutes ago, ginnybob said:

Finally common sense prevails:

 

Bing is a right little arsehole

Pando is a liability.

[The_jagster]

45 minutes ago, Rafalution said:

The coverage of women's football or LGBT inclusive programming is nothing like magnitude of whats going on now and its pretty disingenuous to suggest it is. 

There are plenty of stories of families of having their funerals cancelled who didn't want it. 'Led by bereaved families involved' sounds like a get-out, what does led by mean? If a handful of families  asked for funerals to be moved you could say it's been led by them, even if it was only the opinion of a tiny minority. 

From what i've read its mainly a case of due to how people's contracts are written and trust/hospital departmental rules means there isn't any feasible realistic way they could keep non-emergency units open. (i think there might be some trusts that can and are doing?)

Another stupid comparison. You book a holiday knowing this is a possibility, you don't book one expecting the venue to kick you out for a 24hr period in the middle. There's nothing 'snowflake' about this and making an equivalency between things in the businesses control and things outside it is just silly (not to mention i'm sure there is indoor stuff you can do at centre parcs normally when it rains). People have a right to be annoyed that their holiday is getting screwed up when it doesn't need to be. 

 

I mean ****, people weren't even allowed to do stuff they could do. Those two teams in sheffield are getting in trouble because they had the disrespect to play a friendly with each other when their league game got cancelled, rather than sitting at home crying or whatever they were meant to do. Do you think they are snowflakes for not sacking off the game?

I don't get how you can say 

when the above happened

No my point about TV is not that they are the exact same degree of coverage, but that nobody is forced to watch it and the same rhetoric applies. Channel 4's schedule across its channels is showing as normal atm so if people want to watch something else on TV they can.

If funerals are being unilaterally cancelled then I have been suckered in by that statement and fundamentally disagree with it.

I think the people getting annoyed about two teams playing football are the snowflakes. The FA decided to cancel football, other sports carried on so that can't be imposed by the monarchy/state. If an organisation suspends matches out of respect it can but people should also accept it if they go ahead.

Not being given the option to do X is not the same as being forced to do Y. For me 'snowflake' is making a big fuss over something you just don't like having evolved from its original taking offence meaning. Funerals and NHS stuff I have more sympathy for, inconvenience of leisure time less so.

[HoChiKim]

1 hour ago, oche balboa said:

I admire the people who are queuing to see the Queen lying in state. 13-15 hours of all ages, faiths, people in wheelchairs etc. Wonderful stuff 

I agree.

I've seen the streams and loads of media coverage but I wish I had the strength, stamina and patience to queue up.

I also don't understand why people here are saying it's creepy, I'd imagine those people are the epitomy of creepiness and a reason live streams are created but for me it's an historic moment and to be able to see the scale of it with my own eyes even for a few seconds and feel the occasion would be something I'd never forget.

If the queue goes under 1.5 miles at any point then I'll be joining it for sure.

[themadsheep2001]

3 hours ago, anagain said:

TBH, and I'm surprised by the reaction, but my post was meant tongue in cheek. It was an another "crap night at work post your current thoughts on the bog" post. My humour can be subtle and I do tend to say what I think. Probably too much. 😁 Clearly didn't come across on this forum. 

It did amuse me to see people asking "but what if I wanted to go shopping" and getting upset because someone might say "well go Sunday, you fool". 

There's bits of it that aren't great. The Centre Parks reaction was stupid. I actually said in twitter that they should have just let staff have a day off if they wanted it and apologised if there was a reduced service that day. To tell people not to travel for rooms they had booked was poorly thought through.

Hospitals is another unfortunate, but I see it has since been said not everything should stop. The Royals aren't uncaring, as many would have us believe. I also wonder how many people who might think a day off for this is ludicrous and potentially dangerous for health but would have been quite in favour of train strikes and said any hospital issues were just unfortunate and to cancel or find another way there. I know people said that and I'm sure the correlation is high.

I don't think the monarchy is repugnant. As I said I'm not massively pro-royal myself but my opinion has altered in it existing. Nothing to say it can't be scaled back though. It angered me that Charles doesn't pay inheritance tax when any normal person would.

Ive changed views a lot over the past year. Done a lot of genealogy and I read a lot of history. The world was **** in history and many, many people suffered. My own ancestors suffered massively because they were poor, but in no way similar to slavery, unless you consider that, as pretty much serfs, they did as their landowner said or they were left to their own devices. I have documents of how ancestors were bound to a landowner and paid a pittance for very hard work. Again slavery was far worse. Its not just Britain that was in that market. The king of Belgium went over to Congo promising to better the country and started a period of massive mistreatment. US forefathers are highly thought of but most were known to have many slaves. 

History was very different though and guided very much by religion. Things they did were wrong but we can't change them, only learn from them.

Genealogy made me think differently about family and in turn made my views different when the Queen died. I think a lot of people, many young yes, have views on the monarchy with a degree of ignorance. I know I did. Combine that with the privileges of modern life, that history didn't have, and it really makes me wonder why they often think they're so hard done by. Because they can't shop for a day? Because the TV has 24/7 royal coverage? Watch something else. 

I think there was also a lot about Liz that people just ignore. She was very anti apartheid and very close with Mandela because he respected her stance on that subject. She also clashed with politicians early in her reign because they didn't like how she interacted with other nations and their people. But she was the standard of imperialism to some?

The monarchy is largely symbolic. The monarch has powers but they are rarely used. Liz prefered to stay out of politics. Opening and closing parliament was symbolic and she left the choosing of PMs up to parliament.

All stuff I've learnt since Thursday.

As to the wall to wall coverage that has been mentioned by some in reply to me, well many sports have a lot of coverage on stuff that many don't like but I'm sure sports fans would argue it is fine and warranted.

The Ukraine war was wall to wall but I suspect different too.

We live in an age with countless channels and subscription services and criticism of what is on the 4 original channels. No one is forced to watch BBC1. Yes, too much coverage can be tiring but no one sits and tells you to watch. Comparisons to North Korea or Russia are nonsense.

Anyone is entitled to a view. I was happy for anti-royals to protest and respected one guy for the rationality of his views on twitter and that he chose to express his views away from mourners. I liked his views because it showed people can get on no matter differing opinions. But people who stood up in front of the crowds, whose views should be respected too, and protested were fools just wishing to antagonise and deserved to be moved in. Thought the police were heavy handed at first but it was said they changed their approach.

People won't agree (I make no apology for that) but also maybe I was wrong to be jokey and probably wasn't clear enough. I'll aim my humour differently in future. People do overreact on these divides though. When opinions are strong that happens.

Rambled on way too much, but aside from my jokey nature I try to look at the world with the use of knowledge as to why its that way.

Comparing this country to N Korea or Russia because we have a period of mourning, that is in no way forced, is ridiculous.

But give Truss a chance. It could get closer. If people are going to be worried about any part of our society then worry about her and her cronies. Way worse than the monarchy. 

The comparison between strikes and the monarchy funeral is disingenuous at best considering the reasons behind them. For someone who complains there hasn't been left enough representation, I'm surprised you make arguments that could easily come from a culture war Tory, because it absolutely reads of know your place while belittling the younger generations. Not sure I buy the subtle humour argument either to be frank. 

[themadsheep2001]

Things close on a bank holiday, that's nothing new. What's getting to people, is the number of things extra that don't need to close that are, at short notice, some of which are critical. We've got policing that losing its head (again). It's not really the fault or the request of the Monarchy but even the king (or perhaps more likely his advisers) is seeing the picture it paints and briefing to friendly papers to minimise disruption (although probably too late now)

[Ackter]

The best thing about the queue is that there's no chance her body is even in that coffin.

[Jigsaw13]

52 minutes ago, HoChiKim said:

I agree.

I've seen the streams and loads of media coverage but I wish I had the strength, stamina and patience to queue up.

I also don't understand why people here are saying it's creepy, I'd imagine those people are the epitomy of creepiness and a reason live streams are created but for me it's an historic moment and to be able to see the scale of it with my own eyes even for a few seconds and feel the occasion would be something I'd never forget.

If the queue goes under 1.5 miles at any point then I'll be joining it for sure.

More creepy walking past a body as they do with the pope

[Sons FC]

5 minutes ago, Jigsaw13 said:

More creepy walking past a body as they do with the pope

Or Russian leaders.

[hjfh]

2 hours ago, arenaross said:

Why? It's bonkers. And creepy. 

BBC News had a couple of huns who'd bought their dead husband's ashes with them to pay their respects. 

Not going up there to queue myself, but I think to describe people doing so as ‘bonkers and creepy’ is extremely unfair.

To being with, to say you’ve been to see the Queen lying in state in a building which is nearly 1000 years old, and has seen a great number of historic events throughout those years, seems pretty cool to me.

I’m not sure about people taking their loved one’s ashes up there, but at the same time, it does seem lots of people want to go as the Queen meant a lot to their deceased parent/grandparent etc.

People need to remember how different things were at the start of the Queen’s reign, and why she would mean, or meant, more to people of that generation.

I think for some people it’s not so much that they’re mourning her, but perhaps that connection to a different time.

 

[Jorg]

35 minutes ago, Ackter said:

The best thing about the queue is that there's no chance her body is even in that coffin.

I was thinking the exact same this morning!

[arenaross]

Nah look fair enough, people can do what they want, of course. It's definitely creepy though.