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[Holland] Data Issues


Ed Hewison
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All of the following are Feyenoord youngsters:

Rainey Breinburg - POB Rotterdam https://www.transfermarkt.com/rainey-breinburg/profil/spieler/738517

Jayden Candelaria - 2nd nationality Curaçao https://www.transfermarkt.com/jayden-candelaria/profil/spieler/571150

Gio-Renys Felicia - 1st nationality Curaçao, 2nd nationality Holland (he's played for the Curaçao U20 team) https://www.transfermarkt.com/gio-renys-felicia/profil/spieler/645681

Shiloh 't Zand - 2nd nationality Suriname https://www.transfermarkt.com/shiloh-t-zand/profil/spieler/595247

Jan Plug - POB Leiden https://www.transfermarkt.com/jan-plug/profil/spieler/745625

Devin Remie - POB Breda https://www.transfermarkt.com/devin-remie/profil/spieler/591878

Muhammed Sarigul - POB Den Haag https://www.transfermarkt.com/emin-sarigul/profil/spieler/737253 / Also I'd change his first name to Emin as that's how he's referred to in the Feyenoord website https://www.feyenoord.nl/academy/teams/feyenoord-o17/spelers

Nesta Zahui - POB Montmorency, 2nd nationality Ivory Coast https://www.transfermarkt.com/nesta-zahui/profil/spieler/825592

Edited by Javier
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1 hour ago, Javier said:

All of the following are Feyenoord youngsters:

Rainey Breinburg - POB Rotterdam https://www.transfermarkt.com/rainey-breinburg/profil/spieler/738517

Jayden Candelaria - 2nd nationality Curaçao https://www.transfermarkt.com/jayden-candelaria/profil/spieler/571150

Gio-Renys Felicia - 1st nationality Curaçao, 2nd nationality Holland (he's played for the Curaçao U20 team) https://www.transfermarkt.com/gio-renys-felicia/profil/spieler/645681

Shiloh 't Zand - 2nd nationality Suriname https://www.transfermarkt.com/shiloh-t-zand/profil/spieler/595247

Jan Plug - POB Leiden https://www.transfermarkt.com/jan-plug/profil/spieler/745625

Devin Remie - POB Breda https://www.transfermarkt.com/devin-remie/profil/spieler/591878

Muhammed Sarigul - POB Den Haag https://www.transfermarkt.com/emin-sarigul/profil/spieler/737253 / Also I'd change his first name to Emin as that's how he's referred to in the Feyenoord website https://www.feyenoord.nl/academy/teams/feyenoord-o17/spelers

Nesta Zahui - POB Montmorency, 2nd nationality Ivory Coast https://www.transfermarkt.com/nesta-zahui/profil/spieler/825592

Thanks, all amended.
(Actually did the majority of these two days ago funnily enough)

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  • 2 weeks later...
43 minutes ago, Jackk! said:

 

As posted here - Sander and Sam Westerveld seem to have their relationship set up incorrectly.

Thank you, definitely a mix up - will amend this! :-)

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  • 1 month later...

I believe that the following players should be listed as eligible to play for Indonesia, as well as the Netherlands (note – I don't think Indonesia allows dual nationality, so technically they should just be Eligible, not have Indonesian nationality as well):

Tijjani Reijnders

(definitely not Declared for Indonesia though)https://www-cnnindonesia-com.translate.goog/olahraga/20220218190605-142-761162/tijjani-reijnders-tolak-gabung-timnas-indonesia?_x_tr_sl=id&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc

Eliano Reijnders

https://www-kompasiana-com.translate.goog/manshariakbar7399/61ebfe0f06310e6745408274/shin-tae-yong-mencari-bintang-05-eliano-reijnders?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

 

Jenson Seelt

https://www-goal-com.translate.goog/id/berita/kai-davy-boham-bek-liga-belanda-calon-palang-pintu-timnas/bltee9b221d009a9e85?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

 

Xiamaro Thenu

Kaya Symons

https://www.indosport.com/sepakbola/20220609/belanda-gagal-lolos-piala-dunia-kans-timnas-indonesia-untuk-curi-talenta-keturunan

 

Julian Oerip

Sam Dekkers

https://www-indosport-com.translate.goog/sepakbola/20220602/panen-trofi-ini-daftar-prestasi-7-calon-pemain-naturalisasi-timnas-indonesia-di-eropa?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

 

Joey Pelupessy

https://www-indosport-com.translate.goog/sepakbola/20220516/joey-pelupessy-calon-lini-tengah-timnas-indonesia-yang-cicipi-3-kompetisi-eropa?_x_tr_sl=id&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

 

Kai Boham (I'd say he's Declared for Indonesia, judging by his Twitter)

https://twitter.com/kaiboham?lang=en

 

Delano Ladan (apparently)

https://www-sportstars-id.translate.goog/read/profil-delano-ladan-striker-feyenoord-keturunan-indonesia-1Q0I2C?_x_tr_sl=id&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc

 

Kevin Diks

https://www-bolasport-com.translate.goog/read/313138300/batal-bela-timnas-indonesia-kevin-diks-kena-imbasnya?_x_tr_sl=id&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc

(his parents said no to him playing for Indonesia)

 

Ragnar Oratmangoen

https://www-bolasport-com.translate.goog/amp/read/313078859/kabar-terbaru-proses-naturalisasi-pemain-keturunan-incaran-shin-tae-yong?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

(not declared – so far)

 

Jay Idzes

https://bola-okezone-com.translate.goog/read/2020/11/02/51/2302545/jay-idzes-pemain-keturunan-indonesia-dengan-jam-terbang-tinggi-di-belanda?page=2&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

(seems unlikely)


Justin Jonathans

https://www-indosport-com.translate.goog/sepakbola/20200928/justin-jonathans-pemain-keturunan-belanda-ingin-bela-timnas-indonesia?_x_tr_sl=id&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc

(seems keen to play for Indonesia – maybe Declared?)

 

Also, Ivar Jenner & Jim Croqué are both apparently keen to play for Indonesia – perhaps they should be listed as Declared? They've been called up at youth level for Indonesia already I think.

https://bola-okezone-com.translate.goog/read/2022/06/26/51/2618432/exco-pssi-ungkap-penyebab-pemain-keturunan-ivar-jenner-tidak-ikut-tc-timnas-indonesia-u-19-jelang-piala-aff-u-19-2022?_x_tr_sl=id&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc

https://www-bolatimes-com.translate.goog/bolaindonesia/2022/06/30/075923/belum-bisa-bela-timnas-indonesia-u-19-jim-croque-terima-kasih-indonesia?_x_tr_sl=id&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc

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29 minutes ago, BeeInExile said:

I believe that the following players should be listed as eligible to play for Indonesia, as well as the Netherlands (note – I don't think Indonesia allows dual nationality, so technically they should just be Eligible, not have Indonesian nationality as well):

 

Thanks. We require to set a 2nd nationality for the players to be eligible in the first place. I'm happy to add Indonesian nationality (if not already there) for players who have been either called up, or who have clearly indicated their will to play for the Indonesian National Teams (eg. Boham)
Unlikely candidates such as Ladan, Reijnders and Diks etc. should probably not get it - but we will monitor, there are also some links/research going that way.

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23 hours ago, Reddiablo said:

List

Thanks. We require to set a 2nd nationality for the players to be eligible in the first place. I'm happy to add Indonesian nationality (if not already there) for players who have been either called up, or who have clearly indicated their will to play for the Indonesian National Teams (eg. Boham)
Unlikely candidates such as Ladan, Reijnders and Diks etc. should probably not get it - but we will monitor, there are also some links/research going that way.

Fair enough. Not necessarily saying I disagree, but I think it's worth pointing out that this approach means that you can't really do a Jack Charlton managing Ireland (or what Chris Hughton is doing right now for Ghana, or indeed Shin Tae-Jong and his team are doing for Indonesia) in the game - going round trying to convince diaspora players who are potentially eligible to play for their country to actually play for them.  There are already mechanisms in the game that mean that players won't necessarily accept a call-up to a smaller national team, even if they are listed as being eligible for both countries (I've used the In Game Editor to add Indonesian nationality for a number of the players I listed above in my personal save, and most of them still reject being called up).

Relatedly, Ben Brereton Diaz, who famously now plays for Chile thanks in part to being given Chilean second nationality in FM, didn't have a Chilean passport until shortly before representing them. He certainly hadn't been called up or indicated that he wanted to play for Chile before it was added to the game! https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/19418434.blackburn-rovers-season-ticket-holder-helped-make-ben-brereton-chile-star//

P.S. I forgot about Sandy Walsh - he should 100% be given Indonesian nationality and Declared for them (he's having some administrative issues getting his passport sorted but his decision seems clear to me): https://www-bolasport-com.translate.goog/read/313312777/kesedihan-sandy-walsh-usai-gagal-bela-timnas-indonesia-di-kualifikasi-piala-asia-2023?page=3&_x_tr_sl=id&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc

Edited by BeeInExile
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1 hour ago, BeeInExile said:

Fair enough. Not necessarily saying I disagree, but I think it's worth pointing out that this approach means that you can't really do a Jack Charlton managing Ireland (or what Chris Hughton is doing right now for Ghana, or indeed Shin Tae-Jong and his team are doing for Indonesia) in the game - going round trying to convince diaspora players who are potentially eligible to play for their country to actually play for them.  There are already mechanisms in the game that mean that players won't necessarily accept a call-up to a smaller national team, even if they are listed as being eligible for both countries (I've used the In Game Editor to add Indonesian nationality for a number of the players I listed above in my personal save, and most of them still reject being called up).

Relatedly, Ben Brereton Diaz, who famously now plays for Chile thanks in part to being given Chilean second nationality in FM, didn't have a Chilean passport until shortly before representing them. He certainly hadn't been called up or indicated that he wanted to play for Chile before it was added to the game! https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/19418434.blackburn-rovers-season-ticket-holder-helped-make-ben-brereton-chile-star//

P.S. I forgot about Sandy Walsh - he should 100% be given Indonesian nationality and Declared for them (he's having some administrative issues getting his passport sorted but his decision seems clear to me): https://www-bolasport-com.translate.goog/read/313312777/kesedihan-sandy-walsh-usai-gagal-bela-timnas-indonesia-di-kualifikasi-piala-asia-2023?page=3&_x_tr_sl=id&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc

I don't agree or disagree either. This is over my head, looking at it database wide :D 
I do think some nations are more prone than others in selecting players. I haven't checked, but I'd have expected at least Lamptey to have second nationality Ghana.

It's not always that straightforward. Then again, I'm quite prone to setting second nationality Suriname, Morocco or Turkiye for example - when it's quite clear that a player has roots there - even though eg. Turkiye doesn't accept dual nationality. (But players can obviously choose to play for Turkiye if they decide to)
Thing is also with Indonesia it could be a little bit more tricky, as some situations are a bit more political.

 

The cool thing also is, we have had players see a second nationality in our database and also in game, and said FA's actually discovered this - hey, wait a minute - is Jimmy part our nationality? Let's have a chat and call him up if he wants to. That's also the fun part about it.

Edited by Reddiablo
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  • 2 weeks later...

Sef Hoenjet has passed away: https://www.limburger.nl/cnt/dmf20210106_95469593

Regilio Vrede has left MVV: https://www.transfermarkt.com/regillio-vrede/profil/trainer/5398

And John Sliepen has a birth year of 1986 in-game, but on the picture here he looks a little older I'd say... https://www.gettyimages.ae/detail/news-photo/august-03-john-sliepen-during-the-press-photocall-of-mvv-news-photo/1413788524?adppopup=true

Edited by BramNUFC
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1 hour ago, BramNUFC said:

Sef Hoenjet has passed away: https://www.limburger.nl/cnt/dmf20210106_95469593

Regilio Vrede has left MVV: https://www.transfermarkt.com/regillio-vrede/profil/trainer/5398

And John Sliepen has a birth year of 1986 in-game, but on the picture here he looks a little older I'd say... https://www.gettyimages.ae/detail/news-photo/august-03-john-sliepen-during-the-press-photocall-of-mvv-news-photo/1413788524?adppopup=true

 

1 hour ago, BramNUFC said:

Martin de Waal has left Den Bosch: https://nl.linkedin.com/in/martin-de-waal

Thanks! These have all been set in between the final FM22 release and pre FM23 release... but it's always good to double check.

For John Sliepen - we don't have a date of birth, so this will have been randomized.

I have been able to set his join date at MVV per 1-7-1990; so I'm hoping the game will understand he'll be a bit older than that ;)

Edited by Reddiablo
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Maybe add Haris Medunjanin and Dick Schreuder as favoured people:

'When I played at the Philadelphia Union, I got to know Dick Schreuder. He was an assistant there. We often went to dinner together and became friends. I always said I would play for the club where Dick Schreuder would be a trainer'

https://www.destentor.nl/pec-zwolle/pec-speler-haris-medunjanin-37-is-door-schade-en-schande-wijs-geworden-ik-heb-geleerd-van-mijn-fouten~abc2636d/

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5 hours ago, BramNUFC said:

Maybe add Haris Medunjanin and Dick Schreuder as favoured people:

'When I played at the Philadelphia Union, I got to know Dick Schreuder. He was an assistant there. We often went to dinner together and became friends. I always said I would play for the club where Dick Schreuder would be a trainer'

https://www.destentor.nl/pec-zwolle/pec-speler-haris-medunjanin-37-is-door-schade-en-schande-wijs-geworden-ik-heb-geleerd-van-mijn-fouten~abc2636d/

Yes, I've added this relationship. THanks!

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I wanted to do suggest some changes to rivalries/favoured people for clubs, but I don't really get it. For example FC Twente doesn't have Heracles listed as a rival in-game (when they really should), but when I open the pre-game editor they are there. Does the 'level' need to be a certain number for it to show up on the club profile?

image.png.d82303a6f70018be70f94ae800aa1e31.png

 

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30 minutes ago, BramNUFC said:

I wanted to do suggest some changes to rivalries/favoured people for clubs, but I don't really get it. For example FC Twente doesn't have Heracles listed as a rival in-game (when they really should), but when I open the pre-game editor they are there. Does the 'level' need to be a certain number for it to show up on the club profile?

image.png.d82303a6f70018be70f94ae800aa1e31.png

 

This is not a data issue,

but rivalries are requested by licensing (Dutch FA etc) - and are set at such a standard that it doesn't appear in the actual game.  Do note that FC Twente and Heracles also share a youth academy.

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21 minutes ago, Reddiablo said:

This is not a data issue,

but rivalries are requested by licensing (Dutch FA etc) - and are set at such a standard that it doesn't appear in the actual game.  Do note that FC Twente and Heracles also share a youth academy.

Thanks, but it does show up on the profile here right? It's not a big deal, but I also wouldn't say Emmen and Go Ahead are local rivals, as they're pretty far apart

image.png.38b52db7a6ec147461d7f78b6e915c57.png

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  • 2 weeks later...
1 hour ago, Chef Raekwon said:

Hi Red,

Small suggestion for Fm23: Jay Gorter was born in Amsterdam, not Purmerend. 

Source: 

I won't let you suffer through an entire Ajax video, so fast forward to 3:45.

Thanks! As he says, it's wrong on Wikipedia :D

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am working as an scout for an eredivisie club but i was not in the this year. If possible i would like to be added, quite trivial but it would be fun to see.

If possible i would like to provide personal information to the researchers at hand with a private message (privacy reasons).

 

I look forward to a response

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21 minutes ago, nielsvg99 said:

I am working as an scout for an eredivisie club but i was not in the this year. If possible i would like to be added, quite trivial but it would be fun to see.

If possible i would like to provide personal information to the researchers at hand with a private message (privacy reasons).

 

I look forward to a response

Hi, happy to add you to the club for FM23! Feel free to drop me a PM or an email if you prefer that -> fmnederland at gmail dot com

Small note, you'd need to be a "regular" scout and not an academy scout. We do have a few academy scouts in the database historically, and they have been reverted to regular scouts as the role is not actively portrayed in game. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Jon Doa said:

Jeroen Lumu is listed as Willem II's youngest goalscorer in a match against Eindhoven in 2012 and it says that he was 14 years and 238 days at this time but he was born in 1995 which would make him 16-17 in 2012. image.png.20798c8040bbae20d55ac965f4504c75.png

Thanks, I have amended this with the correct date of birth.

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18 hours ago, Sport Lacost said:

Hi @Reddiablo, just wondered if you knew of whether they’d got the license for Ajax staff members for FM23 or whether this would be the same situation as the last couple of versions?

Hi, the short answer is - I don't know.

This is a licensing situation / request - and this is currently an on-going process.

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