Football Manager 2022 Live Stream - 15th October 7pm BST

[Zemahh]

2 hours ago, Dan_987 said:

Had to pause, but saw a screenshot of Staff being rated out of 5 Stars (recall Stars for reputation, but can't remember Ability.. other than Training Assignment).

Staff Rating stars are already a thing, although you have to create a custom view to see them:

[kiwityke1983]

50 minutes ago, Nahuelzn said:

Most of the streamers who were assigned the alpha did overperform, such as the stream from FM. I might think that the problem might not lie directly with gegenpress but with the AI being too passive again. But we'll have to wait until the beta comes out.

In reality, gegenpress should be OP as it factors one some things that will always work. But the trade offs should be more noticeable: if you don't have the players to do it, you should lose (this is what the stamina fix for FM22 should address). If you press high all the time and the other team is better than you, you'll have holes in your defense and eventually you'll lose. That's what's doesn't happen in FM right now.

But Dortmund should be able to gegenpress. The problem in FM21 and before is that I can do it with Mbeya City fighting for relegation in Tanzania 😂. What I didn't see that much was the inaccuracies they described. But again, all content creators played with top teams. Let's wait until the beta.

Pretty much.

For me the AI has been way, way too cautious for as long as I can remember but the changes they made around FM19 seem to have exacerbated those issues. Fm19 and especially FM20 being the worst ME's we've had in the last 5 years which highlighted just how park the bus in every game in nature the AI is.

FM21 was a step up in terms of ME in my enjoyment of it but the AI is still entirely negative a lot of the time and just refuses to even try to give you a game.

Looking at the stats for Lollujo in FM22 he was having nigh on 40 shots to 2 and getting more dominant as the game went on not less as you'd suspect he should with the alleged changes to stamina and the effects that has. 

I'm looking forward to FM22 still I liked the range of goals he was getting and the changes they've made elsewhere in the game.

I'd rather it be fun than the utter grind FM19 and FM20 were to play.

[sedge11]

2 hours ago, kiwityke1983 said:

Looking at the stats for Lollujo in FM22 he was having nigh on 40 shots to 2 and getting more dominant as the game went on not less as you'd suspect he should with the alleged changes to stamina and the effects that has. 

I'm looking forward to FM22 still I liked the range of goals he was getting and the changes they've made elsewhere in the game

If you look at his game with Bayern though, Bayern did dominate him and his players were knackered. It was only when he made subs that he nicked a goal to win it. But yea the other games he was massively dominate, having Haaland will have some effect on that though, as he’s abit of a cheat code.

[kiwityke1983]

5 minutes ago, sedge11 said:

If you look at his game with Bayern though, Bayern did dominate him and his players were knackered. It was only when he made subs that he nicked a goal to win it. But yea the other games he was massively dominate, having Haaland will have some effect on that though, as he’s abit of a cheat code.

That's true and since I wrote that comment I read a review in the athletic that says the changes to stamina and attempting to press all game will see you concede lots of late goals. I don't even use geggenpress myself so I'm open minded and looking forward to the beta.

[Johnny Ace]

From what I understand, top teams will cope with the gengen because of the fitness levels & smarter choices made when pressing, It's a case now of seeing if you can plug a gengen system into Accrington Stanley & consistently over achieve 

[DarJ]

3 hours ago, Nahuelzn said:

if you don't have the players to do it, you should lose (this is what the stamina fix for FM22 should address)

We might be misinterpreting what they meant when they said that geggenpress is going to be a thing of the pass because they also talked about players being aware of their sprint capacity. So the effect might not be that the players get tired because they press to much but the fact that if you play players with low stamina and natural fitness they won’t press to begin with so your system might not work as intended or it could also be a combination of both things. 

[Platinum]

18 minutes ago, DarJ said:

We might be misinterpreting what they meant when they said that geggenpress is going to be a thing of the pass because they also talked about players being aware of their sprint capacity. So the effect might not be that the players get tired because they press to much but the fact that if you play players with low stamina and natural fitness they won’t press to begin with so your system might not work as intended or it could also be a combination of both things. 

Yep its this. The players just wont press. Also there are passing inaccuracies which both one of the streamers showed and the athletic article mentioned. 

[DarJ]

I haven’t read the article yet.

[Rashidi]

41 minutes ago, DarJ said:

We might be misinterpreting what they meant when they said that geggenpress is going to be a thing of the pass because they also talked about players being aware of their sprint capacity. So the effect might not be that the players get tired because they press to much but the fact that if you play players with low stamina and natural fitness they won’t press to begin with so your system might not work as intended or it could also be a combination of both things. 

Eureka! You’ve got it!

[Platinum]

48 minutes ago, DarJ said:

We might be misinterpreting what they meant when they said that geggenpress is going to be a thing of the pass because they also talked about players being aware of their sprint capacity. So the effect might not be that the players get tired because they press to much but the fact that if you play players with low stamina and natural fitness they won’t press to begin with so your system might not work as intended or it could also be a combination of both things. 

Just one thing though, the players do get tired from pressing too much (based on what has been shown) and this is what leads to them choosing not to press anymore

[rdbayly]

Yes but does that mean the whole team stops pressing aggressively or just those that don’t have the capacity? If it’s the latter, then we should see holes appear between the lines that the AI exploit (e.g Man Utd against Leicester).

I wish they had Nic Madden on the stream to slow the games down, perhaps play on comprehensive highlights to pause and provide some analysis on where the changes were evident. 

[Mars_Blackmon]

2 hours ago, DarJ said:

We might be misinterpreting what they meant when they said that geggenpress is going to be a thing of the pass because they also talked about players being aware of their sprint capacity. So the effect might not be that the players get tired because they press to much but the fact that if you play players with low stamina and natural fitness they won’t press to begin with so your system might not work as intended or it could also be a combination of both things. 

I don’t think they said it was going to be a thing of the past, just plug and play was and results may vary. From the videos it look like stamina will drain much faster which I thought they fixed last year…I hope stamina capacity isn’t the only deciding factor on if a player will press or not. If I have my triggers cranked to the max, I would like to see them at least try to press (compared to if it was set to often) but for only to get beat by the opposition.

[phnompenhandy]

We see in the PL every season, that for the first few gameweeks, many teams are not up to optimum fitness (eg City losing their first match this season). We're emphatically not seeing this in these videos.

[Mars_Blackmon]

6 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

We see in the PL every season, that for the first few gameweeks, many teams are not up to optimum fitness (eg City losing their first match this season). We're emphatically not seeing this in these videos.

That’s a good point that counters the “it will take effect after some games” how were the fitness levels of the players? I didn’t catch them. Going that extreme with low levels of fitness should definitely drain stamina and cause injuries…

[phnompenhandy]

3 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

That’s a good point that counters the “it will take effect after some games” how were the fitness levels of the players? I didn’t catch them. Going that extreme with low levels of fitness should definitely drain stamina and cause injuries…

That's the thing. The Gegenpressing seems full-on from the first game. Fans are accepting in on the basis that 'Well, they'll tire out later in the season'. They shouldn't be doing it successfully from the get-go.

[mhaffy]

One of the improvements Miles tweeted about before release of FM21 Beta was that optimisation improvements had been made with 14% improvement in speed. I ran test when FM21 Beta was released and did indeed achieve c 14% improvement over full game year when weekly saves were done. The main improvement was in reduced save times with fairly minimal improvement in actual processing time.

Would be interested in feedback from SI regarding FM22 speed; in particular whether Data Hub and any associated additional data being generated/stored is going to adversely impact save times and game processing speed versus FM21.

[Platinum]

1 hour ago, phnompenhandy said:

That's the thing. The Gegenpressing seems full-on from the first game. Fans are accepting in on the basis that 'Well, they'll tire out later in the season'. They shouldn't be doing it successfully from the get-go.

It depends on the fitness of the players, Man city had players that played in the euros and south american tournaments, thats the reason why they took longer to get fit. Sheffield dont have that issue. Also we only saw key highlights so its way too early to tell.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Platinum

[themadsheep2001]

4 hours ago, Rashidi said:

Eureka! You’ve got it!

And to add to this, teams that control the ball more, won't need to press as much and so (depending on what you're asking them to do on the ball) will as a result have the fitness to press more when asked to. 

[Zemahh]

35 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

And to add to this, teams that control the ball more, won't need to press as much and so (depending on what you're asking them to do on the ball) will as a result have the fitness to press more when asked to. 

That sounds like Stamina is being drained more during periods without the ball, did I understand that correctly?

If so, I can imagine possession-oriented tactics being flavour of the year. 

[themadsheep2001]

7 minutes ago, Zemahh said:

That sounds like Stamina is being drained more during periods without the ball, did I understand that correctly?

If so, I can imagine possession-oriented tactics being flavour of the year. 

Well pressing is Stamina intensive, so the less you have to press, the more Stamina you'll have. 

Which leads to the next question: how do you manage that? Some might press less and defend deeper. Others might say, if you have the ball, you don't need to press as much. 

If I wanted to destroy a team with pressing for 90 minutes, I'd make sure I held on to the ball as long as possible once I won it back, and move the opposition around. 

 

[Platinum]

38 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

If I wanted to destroy a team with pressing for 90 minutes, I'd make sure I held on to the ball as long as possible once I won it back, and move the opposition around. 

 

Yep and this is the difference between control possession/tiki taka and gegen pressing. Both of them have intense pressing off the ball, but gegen has an extremely high tempo on the ball whereas tiki taka has very slow tempo on the ball. I personally play with the philosophy that if you have the ball the oppositon cant score and go for a tikitaka playstyle.

[stevemc]

What’s going on with the net physics? Need to invest in some pegs.

[fc.cadoni]

I haven't seen in my FM19-20-21 (22?) so far about this issue with nets. And I have an NVIDIA MX150 (lol)

[Nahuelzn]

9 hours ago, sedge11 said:

If you look at his game with Bayern though, Bayern did dominate him and his players were knackered. It was only when he made subs that he nicked a goal to win it. But yea the other games he was massively dominate, having Haaland will have some effect on that though, as he’s abit of a cheat code.

But in terms of playing a game, this is great. He was losing, he did some changes, it affected the game and the outcome was good for him. The fact that your decisions have consequences it's what make a game like this enjoyable. The tradeoff should be that when you make bad decisions, be it a tactical one, a bad change, etc, you should be "punished" more emphatically by the game.

What I suspect is that, since FM won't have difficulty levels (or different modes, to call it differently), they have to serve a large audience who prefers to win easily, as winning everything with your team from the lower league is basically fun. In this way, if they make the game too hard, or even slightly hard, people will start to complain as no one wants to lose. But at some point FM should decide if they're a sandbox for us to break anything in football and do whatever we want, or a game with actual challenges on the save to overcome in order to succeed.

[janrzm]

Think I've watched all the youtube content creator Alpha videos (varying degrees of painful). I'm not going to say they were disingenuous because that would be unfair. But, you know when you watch a review of something and the person doing it is so invested in the product and supplier that they've lost the ability to be objective. Only Zealand was in any way critical. I'm not even sure what OL was trying to show with the PSG unbeaten/overpowered vid, it kind of put me off. 

Edited October 20, 2021 by janrzm

[duesouth]

41 minutes ago, janrzm said:

Think I've watched all the youtube content creator Alpha videos (varying degrees of painful). I'm not going to say they were disingenuous because that would be unfair. But, you know when you watch a review of something and the person doing it is so invested in the product and supplier that they've lost the ability to be objective. Only Zealand was in any way critical. I'm not even sure what OL was trying to show with the PSG unbeaten/overpowered vid, it kind of put me off. 

I would guess Daljit doesn't get the Alpha as he would give his opinion, even if that was negative - but he's the only content creator I watch partly because of that, but also his knowledge and sense of humour.  I'll tune into his early videos and will get a good idea of what the game is about even before a demo is released so I can try myself.

[janrzm]

1 minute ago, duesouth said:

I would guess Daljit doesn't get the Alpha as he would give his opinion, even if that was negative - but he's the only content creator I watch partly because of that, but also his knowledge and sense of humour.  I'll tune into his early videos and will get a good idea of what the game is about even before a demo is released so I can try myself.

Same, it niggles me a bit to be honest. Maybe if he puts some blue lighting in the background he'll get the alpha.....Seriously though, I always watch his videos and if there's something niggling me I'll usually find the answer somewhere in his playlist.

[themadsheep2001]

1 hour ago, janrzm said:

Think I've watched all the youtube content creator Alpha videos (varying degrees of painful). I'm not going to say they were disingenuous because that would be unfair. But, you know when you watch a review of something and the person doing it is so invested in the product and supplier that they've lost the ability to be objective. Only Zealand was in any way critical. I'm not even sure what OL was trying to show with the PSG unbeaten/overpowered vid, it kind of put me off. 

I mean, you've already said they have literally all lost the ability be objective. Which is a little harsh and unfair in itself, IMO 

I would also in fairness not assume only content creators get the alpha. And that given such things are covered by NDAs, no one is going to talk about (or should be) without explicit permission. 

[JordanMilly]

1 hour ago, janrzm said:

Think I've watched all the youtube content creator Alpha videos (varying degrees of painful). I'm not going to say they were disingenuous because that would be unfair. But, you know when you watch a review of something and the person doing it is so invested in the product and supplier that they've lost the ability to be objective. Only Zealand was in any way critical. I'm not even sure what OL was trying to show with the PSG unbeaten/overpowered vid, it kind of put me off. 

Given I know the content creators they used personally, and we discuss FM a fair bit, they are perfectly capable of being objective and critical towards FM and SI, believe me 

[Mars_Blackmon]

2 hours ago, janrzm said:

Think I've watched all the youtube content creator Alpha videos (varying degrees of painful). I'm not going to say they were disingenuous because that would be unfair. But, you know when you watch a review of something and the person doing it is so invested in the product and supplier that they've lost the ability to be objective. Only Zealand was in any way critical. I'm not even sure what OL was trying to show with the PSG unbeaten/overpowered vid, it kind of put me off. 

Yea that PSG video was ridiculous lol

[Zemahh]

4 hours ago, duesouth said:

I would guess Daljit doesn't get the Alpha as he would give his opinion, even if that was negative - but he's the only content creator I watch partly because of that, but also his knowledge and sense of humour.  I'll tune into his early videos and will get a good idea of what the game is about even before a demo is released so I can try myself.

Pretty sure he has alpha, as someone who's been involved in the game before (as far as I know, could be wrong) and knows the developers. There's probably plenty that have it, but aren't allowed to disclose anything about it.

[duesouth]

18 minutes ago, Zemahh said:

Pretty sure he has alpha, as someone who's been involved in the game before (as far as I know, could be wrong) and knows the developers. There's probably plenty that have it, but aren't allowed to disclose anything about it.

I should have said "I would guess Daljit doesn't get to post content on the Alpha...".  I'm sure he would give SI some excellent feedback if he does indeed have alpha access.