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Football Manager 2022 Headline Features - In The Studio Part 2


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Actually, what all of this discussion says it's that as long as you don't need to do anything besides setting a OP tactic and buying young players which are also OP and easy to get, any feature is "useless".

Training? Don't need it. Let the assman do it.

Deadline day? Don't need it, I already have my young prospects scouted and signed.

Match day experience? Don't need it. I just play in extended highlights and barley make any tactical decision during the game.

New staff meeting? Dynamics? Pointless. I'm winning and everything is alright.

Press conferences? Useless. Just answer neutral or the first positive.

Whatever you do, if the game is still easy out of the box, all you're left to do is just do the same you're doing every year.

 

That's why I'm excited about the changes on pressing, and why I still have faith that we'll get a blog post talking about the AI on squad building and transfers for FM22! While those aren't technically new features, they will improve our game experience by a lot.

 

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53 minutes ago, Bradley21 said:

It's classic SI to dress up a pointless feature that nobody asked for or wanted as something ground breaking, while ignoring the same complaints people have had for years. This is a feature that literally nobody asked for, nobody wants and nobody will use more than once. This is a complete waste of time and resources and it just blows my mind how anybody at SI could think this is a good idea. 

The only thing SI should be focusing on as a new feature would be a completely overhauled AI transfer system, it is the single one feature that would have a tangible positive impact on the entire playerbase and is something people have been requesting vocally for years. But SI never listen, so we always end up with the same pathetic AI that made nonsensical decisions, make absurd demands while bidding peanuts for players, AI clubs demanding you pay £100m then selling to another AI team for £30m the next day or teams who never make transfers at all. Teams have no identity, no squad building ethos and managers barely have individual identities with signings, the game would improve a hundredfold if this was addressed. 

But i guess getting a Twitter hypeman to do a flashy video is all the content we actually need, so what do i know. 

I 100% agree with this!!!

Ridiculous how outdated the transfer system is in comparison with IRL transfers in todays market especially with offers recieved...Market value for your Star player?...Really??..In the past they even banged on about the length of a contract might deter teams...Teams like ManC.. Yeah..ok ...

Reason why I haven't bothered with 20/21 and it looks like 22 will be going on the back burner too until there are major changes, IMO this should of been priority on a headline feature and how noone has picked up on this is beyond me. 

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1 hour ago, Bradley21 said:

It's classic SI to dress up a pointless feature that nobody asked for or wanted as something ground breaking, while ignoring the same complaints people have had for years.

Just because YOU didn't want this feature doesn't mean that NOBODY wanted this feature.

1 hour ago, Bradley21 said:

This is a feature that literally nobody asked for, nobody wants and nobody will use more than once. This is a complete waste of time and resources and it just blows my mind how anybody at SI could think this is a good idea. 

LITERALLY NOBODY? So, not a single one out of 1,000,000+ FMers from across the world will use this feature more than once?! Okay, then...

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Very underwhelming this year , they went the EA route and barely any tangible  improvements .
@Bradley21 is absolutely on point there are parts of the game that need massive overhauls and year after year is nothing but disappointment. part of this can be blamed on lack of competition  , nothing to force them to actually innovate has this is literally a monopoly on the genre  

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2 hours ago, nicko said:

I 100% agree with this!!!

Ridiculous how outdated the transfer system is in comparison with IRL transfers in todays market especially with offers recieved...Market value for your Star player?...Really??..In the past they even banged on about the length of a contract might deter teams...Teams like ManC.. Yeah..ok ...

Reason why I haven't bothered with 20/21 and it looks like 22 will be going on the back burner too until there are major changes, IMO this should of been priority on a headline feature and how noone has picked up on this is beyond me. 

How do you know the AI transfer business hasn't been improved?

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1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

How do you know the AI transfer business hasn't been improved?

This is quite easy, if think about it. ;) Changes to something that important in the game is a headline feature.

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On 09/10/2021 at 05:52, BrightLad5 said:

This is something I incorporate into most of my saves anyway. I try to never use the “player search” feature. Any player I sign has to be recommended by a staff member like DoF or Scouts, or agents/direct approach from the player. It adds a nice level of realism as opposed to shopping for footballer on the Amazon-like player search screen :lol: 

Yup I play exactly like this and it’s why I like the DD and staff meetings features.  But it would be nice to see AI enhancements go along with it…

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Going to buck the trend here - I welcome a revamped Deadline Day.  Why?  2 main reasons:

1) It needed it.  It's not exactly fun clicking "next" on emails or answering a dumb journo question.  It's not immersive or thrilling.  Other parts of the UI could also use a revamp, parts which are perhaps more important to me, but it would be pretty entitled of me to think what I consider to be a higher priority should be done ahead of SI's own priorities.  So any improvement can only be a good thing and is welcomed.

2) Talking of immersion, it isn't "realistic" - which is kind of what SI go for after all - so it needed an injection of realism.  For all those saying "don't use it, waste of time, not what we wanted" I'll ask you how realistic is it that you conclude all of your business shortly after the end of the previous season?  Personally I do just that myself a fair amount of time but I don't always and sometimes do business on Deadline Day.  It can be fun to get last minute tempting offers for players and gets me looking around to see if I can find a suitable replacement at such short notice (or just take the cash).  So I welcome any improvements to the UI/UX in this area.

It's not all a bed of roses of course.  In the video it's stated that player transfers can get cheaper the nearer to Deadline Day it gets as players become more desperate to move.  If strides have been made towards that it might incentivise people to do (some of) their business later in the window or on Deadline Day.  The optimist in me hopes that's been modelled in the game, although no mention was made in the video.

Likewise a wider transfer revamp may also be useful.  If so many are concluding their transfer business so early, thus making Deadline Day pointless for them, there must be reasons why they do that.  Nobody seems to be giving reasons though which is unfortunate as that may actually be useful feedback.  Is cash too easy to come by?  Too quick and easy to conclude deals?  Players too willing to move?  Boards too willing to sanction deals?  Is scouting too powerful?  Clubs in top divisions could probably tick all of those boxes (and more) so transfers become nothing more than a brief distraction.  In lower divisions perhaps not so much, where cash is much tighter, bargains need to be found and waiting to see who might get transfer listed can become a game of chicken as Deadline Day approaches.

So overall an improved Deadline Day experience can only be a good thing, however unless some people have an actual reason to use it it'll probably just continue to be "Decline" on the invitation for them.

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6 hours ago, CFuller said:

Just because YOU didn't want this feature doesn't mean that NOBODY wanted this feature.

LITERALLY NOBODY? So, not a single one out of 1,000,000+ FMers from across the world will use this feature more than once?! Okay, then...

I have never seen a single person ask for this on here, i have never seen it on Instagram posts, i have never seen it on any Youtube comment section and i have never heard any of my friends or people from fan forums down the years ask for this feature. So yes, virtually nobody was asking for this feature, but in the absence of having something interesting to say you just harp on about the meaning of a single word in my post. 

I have extreme confidence that a negligible % of people will use this feature more than once, unless of course SI overtune things and deadline day deals are a borderline exploit in how cheap/effective they can be. Which i admit, could happen, but people using a feature because of poor balancing isn't the same as people using it because they want to use it. 

EDIT: I did a quick search and in the first 6 or 7 pages of results i found exactly one mention of someone wanting this feature. The thread had zero replies until someone necro'd it after the recent announcement. 

 

Edited by Bradley21
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13 часов назад, CFuller сказал:

Just because YOU didn't want this feature doesn't mean that NOBODY wanted this feature.

15 часов назад, Bradley21 сказал:

do you know somebody who asked for body language?

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7 часов назад, Bradley21 сказал:

EDIT: I did a quick search and in the first 6 or 7 pages of results i found exactly one mention of someone wanting this feature. The thread had zero replies until someone necro'd it after the recent announcement. 

and this is about LAYOUT, not AI 🤣
but the date of post is too late imo to be taken as the reason to implement this "feature", so probably this is still devs decision.

Edited by FedAt
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Underwhelming, but I recall FM21 snippets and feature previews being like that too - and it was one of the best FM's ever in my view (mainly due to ME improvements).

I certainly hope the ME continues on its upward trajectory and doesn't revert back to the monstrosity that was FM20. This year's iteration does make it seem like a minor update rather than a new game; I would assume they have a lot of good ideas up their sleeves that they need to save for future releases. There does come a point where you hit a ceiling with what you, as a manager, can control and contribute too - especially when you consider the game already gives a responsibilities to the player that a real-life manager wouldn't get.

I'll wait until some feedback on the BETA is put on here before making a decision.

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On 07/10/2021 at 19:28, Ronnieekelund said:

Yeah seems they are just adding more things to click on which will be rushed through after a couple of weeks of playing. ...

I actually found that the most bearable experience was to holiday between match days, bypassing all of this bloated 'experiences', also leaving all of the press stuff for someone else to deal with. The game is actually quite ok like that, it goes back to the old days when the focus was on the pitch.

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On 07/10/2021 at 22:08, Marko1989 said:

...

I don't understand, it is like they don't listen to fans at all. I hope I am wrong and that we will see something really interesting in coming videos. 

This is not going to be pleasant to hear but, why should they? People still buy the game is massive amounts.

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On 09/10/2021 at 15:13, XaW said:

...

And both what you are talking about and what I'm talking about are key things a manager deal with on a daily basis, but we have a very different parts of it we enjoy the most. And therein lies the issue for SI, how do they make the game enjoyable for both of us? Either the details we enjoy will only give minimal benefit (to avoid punishing those who don't like it), or risk alienating a part of the customer base? Currently, they seem to be trying to balance it out.

...

We're now on version 22 of FM, if in 18 years getting something fundamental like set-pieces, or basic interactions right is not achieved, then... Having said that, I can sympathize, when they entered 3d mode, this opened a brand new can of worms on many fronts, which just competes with resources for other stuff and some of the other stuff (staff interactions being the case) have been tweaked several times and they are still essentially a organigram flow and nothing else, so not sure there is a lot of mileage for ground-breaking changes.

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12 hours ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

Yup I play exactly like this and it’s why I like the DD and staff meetings features.  But it would be nice to see AI enhancements go along with it…

Yes exactly that. I try to force myself to play realistically. I think it might have come through years and years of "knowing the game" I think a lot of us are very experienced and we know the best ways to win and sign players etc. I enjoy making the game a bit harder by limiting how I am able to find players.

I will be actively looking to rely on the staff meetings on FM22 much like I did with FM21 Scout meetings, as well as having more faith in the moves made on DD. AI advancements would be fantastic to increase the immersion of both of these features and I do hope it has advanced, but even not I will still be using them to increase the realism for my saves.

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1 minute ago, jmlima said:

We're now on version 22 of FM, is in 22 years getting something fundamental like set-pieces, or basic interactions right is not achieved, then...

I know what I'm about to say is very pedantic and not really relevant to the discussion... but 22 is just the year number. It's not the 22nd version of FM by SI, it's the 18th version - or the 30th, if you're including Championship Manager.

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1 minute ago, CFuller said:

I know what I'm about to say is very pedantic and not really relevant to the discussion... but 22 is just the year number. It's not the 22nd version of FM by SI, it's the 18th version - or the 30th, if you're including Championship Manager.

Yeah, I updated it in the meanwhile as I noted just that.

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3 minutes ago, CFuller said:

I know what I'm about to say is very pedantic and not really relevant to the discussion... but 22 is just the year number. It's not the 22nd version of FM by SI, it's the 18th version - or the 30th, if you're including Championship Manager.

Personally I'm disgusted that CDPR made so many mistakes in CyberPunk 2077 that they couldn't have fixed in the previous 2076 iterations.

  

41 minutes ago, jmlima said:

This is not going to be pleasant to hear but, why should they? People still buy the game is massive amounts.

And this is the big issue, not just with FM, but with gaming in general, particularly with yearly franchises.  People, ultimately, are weak.  They like to talk a good game online, ranting about how awful things are, wielding those big dislike buttons.  "Oh look!  That video has been disliked several million times!  ROFL!" they chortle, whilst looking into their wallet to count out their pennies to buy a copy.  The consumer should hold all the power in this relationship, but bitching about a product without any action behind it has to be amongst the most pathetically pointless things you can do.  If people actually backed up their hate of the product (and admittedly, FM is nowhere near as guilty for this as others) by not buying it, that is something that would get noticed.  

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16 minutes ago, forameuss said:

...And this is the big issue, not just with FM, but with gaming in general, particularly with yearly franchises.  People, ultimately, are weak.  They like to talk a good game online, ranting about how awful things are, wielding those big dislike buttons.  "Oh look!  That video has been disliked several million times!  ROFL!" they chortle, whilst looking into their wallet to count out their pennies to buy a copy.  The consumer should hold all the power in this relationship, but bitching about a product without any action behind it has to be amongst the most pathetically pointless things you can do.  If people actually backed up their hate of the product (and admittedly, FM is nowhere near as guilty for this as others) by not buying it, that is something that would get noticed.  

In this particular case, this is made worse since SI have a monopoly position. They could very literally put the same game out with a revised database and they would still sell roughly the same numbers. Largely, the majority of people paying for the updated database. It's much to SI's credit that they still try to change anything at all.

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1 hour ago, jmlima said:

I actually found that the most bearable experience was to holiday between match days, bypassing all of this bloated 'experiences', also leaving all of the press stuff for someone else to deal with. The game is actually quite ok like that, it goes back to the old days when the focus was on the pitch.

For me, immersion is a important factor in a text sims. I don’t think I would enjoy the game if it was that barebones. At that point it would be a tactics simulator.

But in my experience, these type of games are usually split between play styles. Those that like to get immersed and those who just want the results.

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12 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

For me, immersion is a important factor in a text sims. I don’t think I would enjoy the game if it was that barebones. At that point it would be a tactics simulator.

But in my experience, these type of games are usually split between play styles. Those that like to get immersed and those who just want the results.

This could be the topic of an entire thread, but immersion / experience, whatever is called is not a one-stop shop that is the same for every situation and for everyone. In some football environments what the manager does is train and deal with the match-day. That's it, that's your 100% experience there. In others, they have to deal with the plethora of interviews, chasing players from clubs in the middle of the night and all the crap associated with it, again, that's your 100% experience. A simulator is only as good as your ability to simulate what it intends to do, that's the issue right here, it tries to simulate everything, from amateur football to the champion's league final in the same way. To achieve the effect we want, we all use different approaches, take some-shortcuts, create some home rules, but that's actually a good thing.

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Football Manager to me is like a Volvo (car). It's solid, well buildt and it almost never fails.

Every new model get's a bit more polished, more secure, more modern, but it's still a car. For me this thread sometimes is closer to an UFO than a car:lol: I don't want a car with every little gimmick which cost's me like 300k instead of a "Volvo" for the same price every year:thup:

Edit: this post was sponsored by a swedish car-company:D

Edited by Daveincid
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3 hours ago, jmlima said:

I actually found that the most bearable experience was to holiday between match days, bypassing all of this bloated 'experiences', also leaving all of the press stuff for someone else to deal with. The game is actually quite ok like that, it goes back to the old days when the focus was on the pitch.

Surely this is the only way to play!?!?Without holidaying between games, we would have to face the same repetitive squad problems, questions from journalists, useless staff advice, pointless emails...it’s just way too much of a drag to go through day by day imo. And now this year, it looks like it’s going to be even more of this...

 

none of that creates immersion. 

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1 hour ago, jcw163 said:

As ever the only question I want answered is "can goalkeepers commit fouls yet?"

This really needs addressing. It’s not a graphics question, it’s a fundamental ‘what can happen in the engine’ question and that needs to be as reflective to real life as possible. This would be a nice step in the right direction. 
 

Without it, it pretty much renders sub goalkeepers useless which is a big shame. 

Edited by DP
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2 hours ago, jmlima said:

This could be the topic of an entire thread, but immersion / experience, whatever is called is not a one-stop shop that is the same for every situation and for everyone. In some football environments what the manager does is train and deal with the match-day. That's it, that's your 100% experience there. In others, they have to deal with the plethora of interviews, chasing players from clubs in the middle of the night and all the crap associated with it, again, that's your 100% experience. A simulator is only as good as your ability to simulate what it intends to do, that's the issue right here, it tries to simulate everything, from amateur football to the champion's league final in the same way. To achieve the effect we want, we all use different approaches, take some-shortcuts, create some home rules, but that's actually a good thing.

That’s the experience you get. Managing a champions league side isn’t the same as managing an amateur club…You're not going to get any of the interviews and questions as a amateur club unless the creator of that data enabled them for some reason. That difference in experience creates the immersion. Whether you personally enjoy it or not. but for other, they will see a difference in managing a friendly game vs a champions league final. You’re not going to get that experience simming game to game skipping everything. That experience may be fun for that person but it’s not immersing you in a world of football.

 

TBH the word repetitive have been overused. Maybe this was true 10 versions ago but if someone don’t even do them in the first place, they probably wouldn’t even notice.. i do all press conferences and interviews and I can count on one hand of how many times in a season that I’ve been asked the same questions. Majority of those have been happening in a new signing press conference which definitely should be toned down. I shouldn’t be asking questions about someone I signed as a backup 

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7 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

That’s the experience you get. Managing a champions league side isn’t the same as managing an amateur club…You're not going to get any of the interviews and questions as a amateur club unless the creator of that data enabled them for some reason. That difference in experience creates the immersion. Whether you personally enjoy it or not. but for other, they will see a difference in managing a friendly game vs a champions league final. You’re not going to get that experience simming game to game skipping everything. That experience may be fun for that person but it’s not immersing you in a world of football.

 

TBH the word repetitive have been overused. Maybe this was true 10 versions ago but if someone don’t even do them in the first place, they probably wouldn’t even notice.. i do all press conferences and interviews and I can count on one hand of how many times in a season that I’ve been asked the same questions. Majority of those have been happening in a new signing press conference which definitely should be toned down. I shouldn’t be asking questions about someone I signed as a backup 

I actually quite enjoy the press conferences and questions that come through. :)

I've only skipped maybe 2/3 in my current Journeyman save on FM21 and that was because I was super salty at a few losses and couldn't be bothered to answer questions, so sent my Assistant... which I guess could be realistic :lol:

I also never holiday at any time in my save apart from when unemployed, but if people enjoy doing that then each to their own I guess. I feel a good majority of the immersion comes from these mini interactions/issues and "role playing" side of things as opposed to just flying from one game to the next Fifa style.

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2 hours ago, jcw163 said:

As ever the only question I want answered is "can goalkeepers commit fouls yet?"

 

39 minutes ago, DP said:

This really needs addressing. It’s not a graphics question, it’s a fundamental ‘what can happen in the engine’ question and that needs to be as reflective to real life as possible. This would be a nice step in the right direction. 
 

Without it, it pretty much renders sub goalkeepers useless which is a big shame. 

Yeah would be great if goalkeepers weren't so limited, and collision detection has always been a problem. It's been well documented on here and discussed.

I also hope for a complete rework of what they're capable of both with and without the ball - currently "Sweeper keepers" for as long as can be remembered rush out/sweep up intermittently at best and role/attributes don't make a huge amount of difference.

Then there is the massive limits as to how they can get involved in possession, in FM the different sweeper keeper roles have always got graded by how far they'll dribble out and then smash it up the pitch. If you look at what modern teams do involving the keeper it's needed revamping for several years. As an example off the top of my head I caught a bit of a Brighton game the other week, and in that time I saw the goalkeeper Sanchez 40 yards out fully involved in the ball retention/recycling, and at one point when stuck in their penalty area being pressed he even ran out to the side past his centre back on the ball(!!!) to make an angle and an extra man so they could play out.

As with everything I'm sure it's difficult to introduce to the game, in stable fashion. But a substantial reworking of goalkeepers is years overdue and would be a big change to trumpet. We can but hope though.....

 

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32 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

Managing a champions league side isn’t the same as managing an amateur club…

Yet it feels the same in FM. From day-to-day stuff you have to do, to matches themselves.

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2 minutes ago, (sic) said:

Yet it feels the same in FM. From day-to-day stuff you have to do, to matches themselves.

But you do have different media items and press questions revolved around important fixtures, different news items from club legends etc, team meetings before important matches, messages from the board post match (maybe pre match too?)

In-game isn't much different (unless you win the cup with the ticker tape obviously) so maybe there could be a bit of a UI update there. in terms of interactable content I'm not sure they could add much, maybe better tunnel interactions?

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1 minute ago, BrightLad5 said:

But you do have different media items and press questions revolved around important fixtures, different news items from club legends etc, team meetings before important matches, messages from the board post match (maybe pre match too?)

In-game isn't much different (unless you win the cup with the ticker tape obviously) so maybe there could be a bit of a UI update there. in terms of interactable content I'm not sure they could add much, maybe better tunnel interactions?

What you have is more stuff added, but it doesn't improve the immersion. Getting more text in inbox doesn't improve the immersion at all.

Just adding more text, and more press questions/answers isn't gonna improve that at all, quite the opposite. It's just gonna make even more players skip that part of the game.

 

In-game, playing in lower leagues and in the top league isn't that much different. The players will have lower attributes but that's about it, it doesn't feel much different when you watch the match.

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18 minutes ago, (sic) said:

Yet it feels the same in FM. From day-to-day stuff you have to do, to matches themselves.

I have to Disagree. You even get TV style presentation. But of course that don’t matter if you use a skin which includes it for every game anyway which is a user fault at that point.

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2 minutes ago, (sic) said:

What you have is more stuff added, but it doesn't improve the immersion. Getting more text in inbox doesn't improve the immersion at all.

Just adding more text, and more press questions/answers isn't gonna improve that at all, quite the opposite. It's just gonna make even more players skip that part of the game.

 

In-game, playing in lower leagues and in the top league isn't that much different. The players will have lower attributes but that's about it, it doesn't feel much different when you watch the match.

What changes would you want aside from new items and media coverage? There's already specific team talks for important games. 

And in game, again I don't know what differences there would be. Would you be looking for graphical changes? They've got pitch deterioration and the like.

I'm just curious with what differences you'd actually want?

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4 minutes ago, (sic) said:

What you have is more stuff added, but it doesn't improve the immersion. Getting more text in inbox doesn't improve the immersion at all.

Just adding more text, and more press questions/answers isn't gonna improve that at all, quite the opposite. It's just gonna make even more players skip that part of the game.

 

In-game, playing in lower leagues and in the top league isn't that much different. The players will have lower attributes but that's about it, it doesn't feel much different when you watch the match.

It’s a text based sports simulation. What will add immersion other than text? Building a house?

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It can be both, you know.  It can be that the game is incredibly repetitive and sterile, with little difference between wherever and at what level you're managing, while simultaneously having no real way to differentiate that.

The former is very true for me.  And I agree with what @(sic) is saying, and would go as far as saying that it often doesn't really matter what club you're playing at, let alone what level.  It's just different names flashing by, slightly different looking stadiums, but the same game loop.   It's a game that has always relied on each individual user to build their own immersion, but the past few editions have seemed particularly sterile in that it's the same obfuscated loop over and over again.  That may be a personal thing now rather than the direction the game has gone in, as maybe my imagination isn't quite what it used to be, and the same stories aren't getting made up to make things interesting.  But the game has never been particularly good at that.  How do you change that?  Is it even possible?

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8 minutes ago, forameuss said:

 

 

8 minutes ago, forameuss said:

It can be both, you know.  It can be that the game is incredibly repetitive and sterile, with little difference between wherever and at what level you're managing, while simultaneously having no real way to differentiate that.

The former is very true for me.  And I agree with what @(sic) is saying, and would go as far as saying that it often doesn't really matter what club you're playing at, let alone what level.  It's just different names flashing by, slightly different looking stadiums, but the same game loop.   It's a game that has always relied on each individual user to build their own immersion, but the past few editions have seemed particularly sterile in that it's the same obfuscated loop over and over again.  That may be a personal thing now rather than the direction the game has gone in, as maybe my imagination isn't quite what it used to be, and the same stories aren't getting made up to make things interesting.  But the game has never been particularly good at that.  How do you change that?  Is it even possible?

 

FM is quite well known for being immersive and having that addictive quality because of it. Allowing people to use their imagination and creativity.

Maybe it is a personal thing, I got very immersed in my South American/Journeyman save for FM21.

FM to my knowledge haven't removed anything that would reduce the immersion making qualities. Maybe some just aren't engrossed by a text-based sim as much as they once were? The requirement to create your own immersion/adventure/story might not hit home for some seasoned players any more? That could easily be the case I guess.

Edited by BrightLad5
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11 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

It’s a text based sports simulation. What will add immersion other than text? Building a house?

Well watching a game in 3d is ridiculous as it blows the emersion out of the water. Quite laughable how bad it still is. I still watch in 2d so at least I can imagine what real football looks like.

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1 minute ago, Ronnieekelund said:

Well watching a game in 3d is ridiculous as it blows the emersion out of the water. Quite laughable how bad it still is. I still watch in 2d so at least I can imagine what real football looks like.

I often watch 2D too :)

Its great for looking at tactical shape etc. Starting doing it in FM20 when my laptop couldn't handle the 3D and still find it great. I'm glad they have left it in all these years :lol:

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3 minutes ago, BrightLad5 said:

 

 

FM is quite well known for being immersive and having that addictive quality because of it. Allowing people to use their imagination and creativity.

Maybe it is a personal thing, I got very immersed in my South American/Journeyman save for FM21.

FM to my knowledge haven't removed anything that would reduce the immersion making qualities. Maybe some just aren't engrossed by a text-based sim as much as they once were? The requirement to create your own immersion/adventure/story might not hit home for some seasoned players any more? That could easily be the case I guess.

Could very well be.  Although it might not be done to stuff being taken away, or more that the stuff added doesn't really add much in terms of immersion.  Personally I don't feel like the media modules have added anything really, outside of very rare occasions.  But they still form a fair chunk of the game if you let them.  

EDIT: For what it's worth, I hate the use of "immersion" in this sense.  There's definitely the kernel of a point in there, but then you get the wild claims from people that say their immersion is ruined because they noticed that their favourite player had a few pixels that looked vaguely like a side-parting.  It's overused by now.

Edited by forameuss
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3 minutes ago, BrightLad5 said:

What changes would you want aside from new items and media coverage? There's already specific team talks for important games. 

And in game, again I don't know what differences there would be. Would you be looking for graphical changes? They've got pitch deterioration and the like.

I'm just curious with what differences you'd actually want?

Sorry that I don't have a solution for every problem that exists in FM, I'm not a game-designer I'm just a consumer. I just expressed my opinions on the game.

1 minute ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

It’s a text based sports simulation. What will add immersion other than text? Building a house?

Not even gonna bother answering that snarky question.

 

Like @forameusssaid above, it's repetitive and sterile. It's all the same with every club, just different names.

 

I'm not sure how you would change that either, I just expressed my opinion. Maybe the problem is that everything is just based on bunch of text. Maybe they should incorporate more graphics into game instead everything being text based. Stadiums all look terrible, maybe they should start there and have real stadiums in-game. Improve the graphical engine, it looks like a game from 2006, surely it will improve match immersion.

2 minutes ago, BrightLad5 said:

 

 

FM is quite well known for being immersive and having that addictive quality because of it. Allowing people to use their imagination and creativity.

Maybe it is a personal thing, I got very immersed in my South American/Journeyman save for FM21.

See, your immersion comes from your imagination, from yourself. There's nothing bad about it, but the immersion doesn't really come from the game itself.

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1 minute ago, forameuss said:

Could very well be.  Although it might not be done to stuff being taken away, or more that the stuff added doesn't really add much in terms of immersion.  Personally I don't feel like the media modules have added anything really, outside of very rare occasions.  But they still form a fair chunk of the game if you let them.  

Oh agreed, the media side can get a little relentless at certain times of the season, but you never know maybe thats the game replicating the annoying media and a frustrated manager - Nigel Pearson style :lol:

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29 минут назад, BrightLad5 сказал:

But you do have different media items and press questions revolved around important fixtures

no, at least I didn't see them, there maybe 20-30 same questions already 4-5 years in the game, if not longer. I already know the positions of answers to chose from, and many of them I just remember from years of repetitions, and I think most players here have same experience with media questions and players interactions.

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2 minutes ago, (sic) said:

Sorry that I don't have a solution for every problem that exists in FM, I'm not a game-designer I'm just a consumer. I just expressed my opinions on the game.

I was just curious what you want them to do differently? People who have feelings that are that much strongly against the core concept of the game (text based interactions) Id have thought would have thoughts on what you'd rather see from the game

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4 minutes ago, BrightLad5 said:

 

 

FM is quite well known for being immersive and having that addictive quality because of it. Allowing people to use their imagination and creativity.

Maybe it is a personal thing, I got very immersed in my South American/Journeyman save for FM21.

FM to my knowledge haven't removed anything that would reduce the immersion making qualities. Maybe some just aren't engrossed by a text-based sim as much as they once were? The requirement to create your own immersion/adventure/story might not hit home for some seasoned players any more? That could easily be the case I guess.

Nothing in the game resembles South American football, so how do you manage to get immersed in your saves?? Genuinely curious. Stadiums are the same, altitude doesn’t make a difference, fans behaviour is the same, salaries are not accurate. No difference managing in the Copa Libertadores or the Vanarama National league.
 

Unless you mean all your immersion comes from what you create within your imagination??

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Just now, BrightLad5 said:

Oh agreed, the media side can get a little relentless at certain times of the season, but you never know maybe thats the game replicating the annoying media and a frustrated manager - Nigel Pearson style :lol:

Which is a fair point again, but while I'd always argue for SI to make FM as realistic as possible, if we're getting to the point where we're seriously developing features that are knowingly tedious (and I know, I know, it's completely subjective) just because it's tedious in real life, then they're in dangerous of disappearing in the vicinty of certain orifices.  I'd be even more supportive of a version of FM that could be as realistic as possible, whilst "game-ifying" certain other parts to make them more enjoyable to sit through.  Not convinced that is ever going to be a direction they'll go though.

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2 minutes ago, akm.91 said:

Nothing in the game resembles South American football, so how do you manage to get immersed in your saves?? Genuinely curious. Stadiums are the same, altitude doesn’t make a difference, fans behaviour is the same, salaries are not accurate. No difference managing in the Copa Libertadores or the Vanarama National league.
 

Unless you mean all your immersion comes from what you create within your imagination??

The Stadium I was managing in at Central Espanyol in Uruguay was noticeably different to any stadium I had managed in in Europe, with different buildings and backdrops around the stadium. Flares in the stands too which I hadn't really seen much in other Saves like in England which was quite a nice change. Some nice little quirks 

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