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FM22 - Pressing Has Been Reworked


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3 hours ago, Johan 14 Cruyff said:

 

This is all too wishy washy, I don’t want to be playing months/years of Experimental Manager. 

We need hard facts from SI on how this works. We need a full list of all the tactical options we can change in game that effect pressing. Not just “Example” 

We need a lot more detail on how each of these options effects pressing, We need some type of graphic to show the details on the accumulative effect of all these option we chose. 

Most likely SI don’t know all the variables themselves I bet and it’s going to take the community months/years of trail and error to get a decent but never a fully comprehensive upstanding on the finer details. 
 

 

That's football for you.

Edited by Vali184
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5 hours ago, Johan 14 Cruyff said:

This is all too wishy washy, I don’t want to be playing months/years of Experimental Manager.

This fantastic post from @Jack Joyce also clears things up a bit:

18 hours ago, Jack Joyce said:

As others have said, depending on the situation your team will cover spaces and passing angles while waiting for a pressing trigger. This is an intentional improvement over previous editions of the game where it felt like players would chase after the ball endlessly, which in real life would lead to your team getting played through far too easily. Players should be smarter now, and wait for the right moment to trigger a press, at a time which makes it less likely that the opposition can bypass the press.

There's of course other factors too - players won't always make the right decision dependent on their attributes, maybe they didn't trigger a press at the right time because they made a bad decision, or maybe because they're tired and are looking to recover some energy. You can certainly try and use a high pressing system with any team, but teams that have players with higher stamina, work rate, aggression, anticipation will see better results.

Another aspect I'm sure people will talk about a lot is the fitness levels - there'll be some games where you use gegenpress and it doesn't feel like your team is getting that tired. A big factor here is possession, if you're keeping 65%+ possession then your team is able to take control of the game, and teams will tire faster without the ball than with it. This is one of the reasons why teams like Man City are able to maintain such an intense press for long periods, they do their recovering while they have the ball. Because of this, the matches where you'll really notice a huge impact on fitness is in matches where your team is having to do the majority of the defending. Be careful of those matches and try to use more sensible pressing levels that takes this into account. 

However that's not to say there can't be any bugs with it! Pressing is an extremely complicated network of decisions and is dependent on player attributes, fitness, formation etc. So if you're consistently seeing a trend where you think it can be improved then start a bug report please and we'll look into it.

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On 23/10/2021 at 03:19, Johan 14 Cruyff said:

 

This is all too wishy washy, I don’t want to be playing months/years of Experimental Manager. 

We need hard facts from SI on how this works. We need a full list of all the tactical options we can change in game that effect pressing. Not just “Example” 

We need a lot more detail on how each of these options effects pressing, We need some type of graphic to show the details on the accumulative effect of all these option we chose. 

Most likely SI don’t know all the variables themselves I bet and it’s going to take the community months/years of trail and error to get a decent but never a fully comprehensive upstanding on the finer details. 
 

 

SI is very bad in guiding their community through the tactics creator and tactical concepts generally. This must be intended for sure to have their content creators figure it out for the community. 

i think rashidi summed this up well

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I've noticed the changes on pressing; to me it seems a bit too effective right now but I only played half a season on this beta. 

The annoying thing is that I can't find a way to avoid this new type of pressing and I've tried all kind of TI or PI and the playmakers seem underused. Of course I can be wrong, I only tested like 2 types of tactics (4-2-3-1 tiki taka and 4 4 2 counter); However, I put a lot more work into roles in order to be able to build up the play.

The video engine seem better, the players move more naturally and their choices seem more real, it's a better feeling watching the matches. For example, with FM21 a winger, wing/back, fullback, even with great acceleration was rarely able to cross after knocked the ball over its opponent, now it is more common. 

Side question: worth investing time into a save or after the beta I'll have to re-start? 

2nd side question: where is the beta feedback forum if any? I can't find it. Thanks in advance. 

nevermind, I found it

Edited by CharlieTZR
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On 25/10/2021 at 09:33, CharlieTZR said:

I've noticed the changes on pressing; to me it seems a bit too effective right now but I only played half a season on this beta. 

The annoying thing is that I can't find a way to avoid this new type of pressing and I've tried all kind of TI or PI and the playmakers seem underused. Of course I can be wrong, I only tested like 2 types of tactics (4-2-3-1 tiki taka and 4 4 2 counter); However, I put a lot more work into roles in order to be able to build up the play.

The video engine seem better, the players move more naturally and their choices seem more real, it's a better feeling watching the matches. For example, with FM21 a winger, wing/back, fullback, even with great acceleration was rarely able to cross after knocked the ball over its opponent, now it is more common. 

Side question: worth investing time into a save or after the beta I'll have to re-start? 

2nd side question: where is the beta feedback forum if any? I can't find it. Thanks in advance. 

nevermind, I found it

Side answer; it’s always best to start a new save when the game drops, as there will be less bugs and issues. 

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On 23/10/2021 at 02:19, Johan 14 Cruyff said:

 

This is all too wishy washy, I don’t want to be playing months/years of Experimental Manager. 

We need hard facts from SI on how this works. We need a full list of all the tactical options we can change in game that effect pressing. Not just “Example” 

We need a lot more detail on how each of these options effects pressing, We need some type of graphic to show the details on the accumulative effect of all these option we chose. 

Most likely SI don’t know all the variables themselves I bet and it’s going to take the community months/years of trail and error to get a decent but never a fully comprehensive upstanding on the finer details. 
 

 

 

On 24/10/2021 at 11:38, CARRERA said:

SI is very bad in guiding their community through the tactics creator and tactical concepts generally. This must be intended for sure to have their content creators figure it out for the community. 

i think rashidi summed this up well

Respectfully disagree. Its not for SI to hold our hands and tell us how to do everything in each situation.

Seeing this expectation in my own real life job too much these days. We have to observe and work things out for ourselves.

IRL, Pep, Klopp etc. don't have a manual so why should we?

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1 hour ago, hd92 said:

And since strikers do not put pressing from the beginning, there are often no scenes of winning the ball against the opposing defender.:mad::mad::mad:

It’s a known issue and will (hopefully) be fixed in one of the upcoming match engine updates.

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6 hours ago, CARRERA said:

It’s a known issue and will (hopefully) be fixed in one of the upcoming match engine updates.

I criticized the pressing system. but in a way, I thought this fm22 was more similar to the real life play than fm21.  (but I still feel like there is something inexperienced. As you know, side play and crossing heading goal that come out frequently.)

Edited by hd92
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21 hours ago, Johan 14 Cruyff said:

If I use a defensive mentality on slightly higher pressing trigger, with a high defensive line, and hard tackling compared to a very attacking mentality  and press much less often with a offside trap, which one presses more ? If I remove hard tacking does that effect the pressing trigger ? If I play a high line with an offside trap does that effect the amount of pressing? If so how much ? We have no clue on this currently. 
 

I think what most people tend to do is ask these questions, try them out in game, study and take notes on the results, then share them with the community. Constructive experimentation.

 

21 hours ago, Johan 14 Cruyff said:

If in real life Pep sets his team to press high and early and ask Rodri to always hold his position then going into the game they know what is going on. In FM we should know based on all the pressing options we have taken we should be able to at least know if Rodri will bomb out of position and press or if he will stay back. Currently we have to guess, e.g so I set up and he bombs on in my game then next game I lower my defensive line by one notch this then makes him hold his position and not press. Sometimes it take so so much trail and error to find out something like that, and that is not what football manager is meant to be about.

One option is to try setting up Rodri with "hold position" and "less pressing" PIs? Why would you change your entire defensive line setting to impact one player?

Have you tried reading the tooltips on the tactic creator when attempting to build tactics? Generally they offer pretty useful pointers on what each instruction does.

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22 minutes ago, bibird. said:

I think what most people tend to do is ask these questions, try them out in game, study and take notes on the results, then share them with the community. Constructive experimentation.

 

One option is to try setting up Rodri with "hold position" and "less pressing" PIs? Why would you change your entire defensive line setting to impact one player?

Have you tried reading the tooltips on the tactic creator when attempting to build tactics? Generally they offer pretty useful pointers on what each instruction does.

Yeah that’s what we currently do, and for some people they are ok with that, other not. Some players have a way that want to play and would like to know what the option they are choosing actually does. I don’t want to select an option like lower the tempo by one notch then later down the line it turns out my deep laying player now stops switch the ball out to the wings because of that change. Then have to tweak some else to try and get him to do that again only to later find out a different knock on effect. And most of the time we apply a tactically option change unless your study the match on full you won’t even notice the other knock on effects. I want to play football manager not guessing the hidden other changes manager. 
 

Think about all the people playing the game around the world that don’t even know the basics like each mentally (attacking, positive, defensive) effects how the players behaves without the ball, effects the defensive line, effects the tempo. These kinds of things along with the new pressing systems need to be better explained. 
 

The Rodri thing was an hypothetical example relating to the nonsense reply earlier about pep or klopp not having a manual, has zero baring on what we are talking about. 

Edited by Johan 14 Cruyff
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3 hours ago, Johan 14 Cruyff said:

Yeah that’s what we currently do, and for some people they are ok with that, other not. Some players have a way that want to play and would like to know what the option they are choosing actually does. I don’t want to select an option like lower the tempo by one notch then later down the line it turns out my deep laying player now stops switch the ball out to the wings because of that change. Then have to tweak some else to try and get him to do that again only to later find out a different knock on effect. And most of the time we apply a tactically option change unless your study the match on full you won’t even notice the other knock on effects. I want to play football manager not guessing the hidden other changes manager. 
 

Think about all the people playing the game around the world that don’t even know the basics like each mentally (attacking, positive, defensive) effects how the players behaves without the ball, effects the defensive line, effects the tempo. These kinds of things along with the new pressing systems need to be better explained. 
 

The Rodri thing was an hypothetical example relating to the nonsense reply earlier about pep or klopp not having a manual, has zero baring on what we are talking about. 

I think I agree with this sentiment, though I dont personally hate experimentation. Something like a heat map for pressing influence across the pitch would be useful. It could resemble the overall tactical analysis heat map which reveals the areas of the pitch which are influenced by each player, but it would be specifically for pressing.

This would help to make sense of how the aggregate of PIs, TIs, OIs and mentality affect pressing. Given that many of these factors both affect and are affected by each other, it's often hard to know whether you've told your players to do the right thing.

Edited by mannyhams
Impossible to know -> hard to know
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  • 2 weeks later...

Has it though? I can still effectively press with Ronaldo up front. Seems a bit weird no? Attacking and Very Attacking tactics still rule supreme, at least against the AI and there also doesn't seem to be a fall off towards the end tbh.

Pressing also still seems really broken because it's just a single player running toward the ball carrier instead of multiple players also closing out passing lanes and so on. It leads to the phenomenon that AI teams who are more defensive will pass the ball around between CBs and their most defensive midfielder, racking up possession. The funny or sad part depending on how you look at it is, the most realistic pressing is actually done if you play a 4-2-4. What should happen if you do that is what happened to United against Liverpool but instead it's actually super effective defensively because you have someone close to everyone of the back 4 players putting more pressure onto them than any other pressing formation actually can. 

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2 hours ago, Flohrinho said:

the most realistic pressing is actually done if you play a 4-2-4. What should happen if you do that is what happened to United against Liverpool but instead it's actually super effective defensively because you have someone close to everyone of the back 4 players putting more pressure onto them than any other pressing formation actually can. 

Actually this is not true. The reason United failed with their press against Liverpool is because they didn't actually know how to press properly. Their pressing resembled FM pressing somewhat, an unorganized mess.

4-2-4 is effective for the exact reason you mentioned, you have players covering the entire back 4. It's not unrealistic, and it also happens IRL quite often.

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35 minutes ago, (sic) said:

Actually this is not true. The reason United failed with their press against Liverpool is because they didn't actually know how to press properly. Their pressing resembled FM pressing somewhat, an unorganized mess.

4-2-4 is effective for the exact reason you mentioned, you have players covering the entire back 4. It's not unrealistic, and it also happens IRL quite often.

Granted United doesn't know how to press, thus their midfield was constantly outnumbered and the press was bypassed easily. The problem is no one plays a 4-2-4 irl and their pressing still works fine because midfielders often actually get involved in pressing CBs but not in game. I even find myself in situations where the striker is starting for some reason to close down the opposition DM despite both CMs having pretty aggressive closing down settings.

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11 minutes ago, Flohrinho said:

Granted United doesn't know how to press, thus their midfield was constantly outnumbered and the press was bypassed easily. The problem is no one plays a 4-2-4 irl and their pressing still works fine because midfielders often actually get involved in pressing CBs but not in game. I even find myself in situations where the striker is starting for some reason to close down the opposition DM despite both CMs having pretty aggressive closing down settings.

Yeah, the only way to bypass this in-game is to specifically tell players to mark certain opposition players.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 28/10/2021 at 22:35, Lord Rowell said:

 

Respectfully disagree. Its not for SI to hold our hands and tell us how to do everything in each situation.

Seeing this expectation in my own real life job too much these days. We have to observe and work things out for ourselves.

IRL, Pep, Klopp etc. don't have a manual so why should we?

and I respectfully disagree with you LR. 
 

Because IRL managers have taken coaching badges and played professionally for years. Management for them is 24/7 365 days a year. They will have read dozens of manuals, played and watched tens of thousands of hours of football. And football is a real game played within the rules of nature. 
 

I don’t have the time to read tactical manuals . I haven’t watched 10000 hours of football. And FM isn’t my ft job. it’s a made up game, with made up behaviours and nuances that have been programmed and isn’t real life (hence why this thread exists in the first place. IRL managers don’t have to get told all the worlds footballers are suddenly behaving differently because they’ve been re-programmed). That’s why we need a manual.

by your logic no game needs any assistance because we should all take a huge amount of time to understand how it works. I’ve said it before. The challenge shouldn’t be learning what this years tweaks mean. The challenge  should be strong enough AI opposition to make you use the huge amount of tools (each of which we understand) at our disposal to win matches and trophies. 

Edited by FulchesterFred
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When preparing to trigger a high press, try to identify players in the opposition's defensive line with poor Composure, Technique and First Touch to target and force into mistakes.

Make sure you have your team trigger a high press when a weaker opposition defensive player receives the ball. This will improve the chances of them conceding possession in valuable areas.

Try to limit the high press to be triggered on a single opposition defensive player. Attempting to trigger on multiple players can have a negative impact on the team's pressing structure.

If the opposition has a defensive player with very good Composure, Technique and First Touch, it might be advisable to never trigger a press on them, as they have the skills to break the press.

If the opposition has several defensive players who are skilled at evading the press, be sure to focus on the weakest, or perhaps avoid triggering a press altogether in these circumstances.

When considering a pressing scheme in any area of the pitch, try to identify the opposition player least comfortable in possession and direct the trigger there.

Always try to ensure that a maximm of one opposition player is identified as the potential trigger point for a press. Attempting to trigger a press on more than one player will likely result in diminishing returns and can compromise the team's defensive structure.

 

I hope this helps

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The issue I have with only triggering a press against the less technically able players is why would I want the better technically able players to have more time on the ball?

Surely you would want the opposite, pressing the better players in the hope of either rushing them in to a mistake or forcing  them to pass to the less abled opposition players?

For me I target specific areas to trigger a press rather than individuals based on their attributes.

 

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On 12/12/2021 at 07:13, Crazy_Ivan said:

The issue I have with only triggering a press against the less technically able players is why would I want the better technically able players to have more time on the ball?

Surely you would want the opposite, pressing the better players in the hope of either rushing them in to a mistake or forcing  them to pass to the less abled opposition players?

For me I target specific areas to trigger a press rather than individuals based on their attributes.

 

How do you target areas to trigger press?

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On 08/12/2021 at 01:31, FulchesterFred said:

I don’t have the time to read tactical manuals . I haven’t watched 10000 hours of football. And FM isn’t my ft job. it’s a made up game, with made up behaviours and nuances that have been programmed and isn’t real life (hence why this thread exists in the first place. IRL managers don’t have to get told all the worlds footballers are suddenly behaving differently because they’ve been re-programmed). That’s why we need a manual.

Have to admit I laughed a bit at this.

I think you have to consider what an enourmous bible it would take to explain what every possible option does in conjunction which the other options, and what outcome you get when your opponents is also doing ABC etc. And you'd also need a disclaimer that says it will work differently based on your opponents actual attributes, and not just tactical setup.

You dont need to have read every Jonathan Wilson book out there to play FM, just set up your formation and players roles, choose a clean slate tactic and start adding instructions when you see how things are going for your team. If you'd restart the game and do the exact same thing with a different team you'd obviously get different results. So this tactical manual of biblical proportions some of you want just simply isn't possible to make.

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Hi guys, I've just started with an attempt to do a recreation of Liverpool's style of play this season. I'm only a couple of games in so its far too early to tell how it'll go, but one quite small, yet still frustrating, thing that has jumped out has been the lack of pressing from full backs. Particularly when an attack breaks down. We currently have much higher LOE/defensive line, trigger press more often, play offside trap and tighter marking selected.

Below is my average position map from a match vs Burnley:

image.png.a106ea019e2816dda2757edacb6e3d92.png

This was a match that we dominated. We weren't ever on the back foot for sustained periods, yet the average position of my defenders is a pretty standard flat back 4.

This might not seem like a big issue, and perhaps it's not, but if you compare it to an actual average position map from Liverpool's recent Merseyside derby win:

McGuire2-450x450.jpg

You can see that the back 4 is anything but flat. Now I know this is a game and I'm not expecting to watch an exact recreation, but I've included a gif of an example of exactly what I mean -

 Robbo.gif.515e68d3937a6abc3df284419e2f37c1.gif

As this attack breaks down, Robertson is in very close proximity to the opposition right winger. He's in a perfect position to a) discourage his team mates to pass to him, or b) put him under pressure and force a mistake if he does receive a pass.

Instead, his instinct is to retreat. I know that the opposition centre forward (#7) is also sort of on the right hand side, but really Robertson should be looking to engage the opposition winger. Instead he drops back almost to the half way line, like a total reset. 

As I said, this might seem like a really minor thing, but when you're trying to implement a system which is reliant on high pressing and sustaining attacks, seeing a player make such an odd movement is really quite frustrating. I watch every second of every Liverpool match and can quite safely say Robertson would never do this. :lol: 

Does anyone have any ideas on how to tackle this? I'm reluctant to use man marking of opposition wingers because this isn't what our full backs do in real life. Is there any other way? Cheers :thup:

Edited by ElJefe4
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2 小时前, ElJefe4说:

Hi guys, I've just started with an attempt to do a recreation of Liverpool's style of play this season. I'm only a couple of games in so its far too early to tell how it'll go, but one quite small, yet still frustrating, thing that has jumped out has been the lack of pressing from full backs. Particularly when an attack breaks down. We currently have much higher LOE/defensive line, trigger press more often, play offside trap and tighter marking selected.

Below is my average position map from a match vs Burnley:

image.png.a106ea019e2816dda2757edacb6e3d92.png

This was a match that we dominated. We weren't ever on the back foot for sustained periods, yet the average position of my defenders is a pretty standard flat back 4.

This might not seem like a big issue, and perhaps it's not, but if you compare it to an actual average position map from Liverpool's recent Merseyside derby win:

McGuire2-450x450.jpg

You can see that the back 4 is anything but flat. Now I know this is a game and I'm not expecting to watch an exact recreation, but I've included a gif of an example of exactly what I mean -

 Robbo.gif.515e68d3937a6abc3df284419e2f37c1.gif

As this attack breaks down, Robertson is in very close proximity to the opposition right winger. He's in a perfect position to a) discourage his team mates to pass to him, or b) put him under pressure and force a mistake if he does receive a pass.

Instead, his instinct is to retreat. I know that the opposition centre forward (#7) is also sort of on the right hand side, but really Robertson should be looking to engage the opposition winger. Instead he drops back almost to the half way line, like a total reset. 

As I said, this might seem like a really minor thing, but when you're trying to implement a system which is reliant on high pressing and sustaining attacks, seeing a player make such an odd movement is really quite frustrating. I watch every second of every Liverpool match and can quite safely say Robertson would never do this. :lol: 

Does anyone have any ideas on how to tackle this? I'm reluctant to use man marking of opposition wingers because this isn't what our full backs do in real life. Is there any other way? Cheers :thup:

here

20211215122330.png.af14aa15d402a43255e2fcce5204e097.png

 

and

20211215122715.png.9c7fcd42cfe7290afd823a40700a347f.png

Edited by Aoyao
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On 12/12/2021 at 07:13, Crazy_Ivan said:

The issue I have with only triggering a press against the less technically able players is why would I want the better technically able players to have more time on the ball?

Surely you would want the opposite, pressing the better players in the hope of either rushing them in to a mistake or forcing  them to pass to the less abled opposition players?

For me I target specific areas to trigger a press rather than individuals based on their attributes.

 

For example: one of the opposition CMs is very bad technically/mentally. You'd want to trigger press on him, because it's easier to force mistakes from him than from other better players. Depending on attributes, better players do better when under pressure, so they can bypass your press more easily.

You are correct in saying that you'd want to force them to pass to less able opposition players. I think you can do that by using tight marking instructions on certain players and using trigger press on other. In this case tight marking on good players, and trigger press on bad players. So you allow the good players to pass the ball to bad players, then close down those bad players, trying to force errors from them, or back-passes.

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3 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

From personal experience in FM22, in terms of instructions I can't overstate the important of using OIs to create pressing triggers and traps. If you want to make the most of pressing they are key

It works really really well this year. I've been having fun trying out different things and they've been working really well

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14 hours ago, Aoyao said:

here

20211215122330.png.af14aa15d402a43255e2fcce5204e097.png

 

and

20211215122715.png.9c7fcd42cfe7290afd823a40700a347f.png

I know what you mean about Fabinho's positioning. He's a standard DM (d) so shouldn't really be out there in the first place. As a rule he'd be in the centre.

As you can see with TAA at RB though, even with no threat of a pass in behind him when we lose the ball, he still turns his back on the play, retreats towards the half way line and then turns again. He could have almost stayed perfectly still and been absolutely fine. 

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3 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

From personal experience in FM22, in terms of instructions I can't overstate the important of using OIs to create pressing triggers and traps. If you want to make the most of pressing they are key

I will definitely look into them more, in the above example that I posted, how do you think OIs would be best used to make Robertson engage with their right winger rather than backing off? 

I'm not sure if this is actually the case but my interpretation of triggering a press on a player would be a bit more reactive than what I actually want from Robertson in this situation. I'd expect trigger press to kick in once that player receives the ball. In this case I'd want Robertson to close him down before he receives it, in that case would tighter marking on that player be more suitable?

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2 hours ago, ElJefe4 said:

how do you think OIs would be best used to make Robertson engage with their right winger rather than backing off? 

Why don't you just ask the full backs to mark AMR/L it might be risky but might also be what you're looking for

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23 hours ago, ElJefe4 said:

I know what you mean about Fabinho's positioning. He's a standard DM (d) so shouldn't really be out there in the first place. As a rule he'd be in the centre.

As you can see with TAA at RB though, even with no threat of a pass in behind him when we lose the ball, he still turns his back on the play, retreats towards the half way line and then turns again. He could have almost stayed perfectly still and been absolutely fine. 

There is nothing wrong with what Robertson is doing.  Based on what I see AR has to hold or track back to cover for the DM who is out of position. I would check for any instructions you might have given Fabinho. If you are playing AR on an attack duty and your team is on an attacking mentality, then he might press the ball carrier if your LOE is high or if you’ve give pressing OIs on that particular opp player. Players will try and make the right decision, in that case most players would track back because that is actually the right thing to do so that the flank doesn’t get exposed, especially if the player playing the pass is a BPD or a playmaker

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On 15/12/2021 at 02:31, ElJefe4 said:

As this attack breaks down, Robertson is in very close proximity to the opposition right winger. He's in a perfect position to a) discourage his team mates to pass to him, or b) put him under pressure and force a mistake if he does receive a pass.

Instead, his instinct is to retreat.

The worrying thing is: wingbacks in teams who defend with a back 3/back 5 are doing that as well. It was an issue that after many years was solved with FM22, but after the first patch, without the ball, even the most gung-ho wingbacks with press to the max are as conservative as Kim Jong-un. You see it in game, you see the differences in the average positions without the ball as well. A pressing team playing FM's 5-2-3 wide (abysmal naming) could (depending on roles) looking like a flat 3-6-1 or a 3-4-3. Now it's always, always a 5-4-1, even when you're dominating possession big time. The little impact pressing has on certain positions is frustrating. And it's time for FM to implement pressing certain zones, not positions or players, and most of all: with how many players nearby? Double zonal marking and wolfpack pressing are more and more common in football (at last!), but the game doesn't allow you to create consequent defensive overloads.

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On 15/12/2021 at 15:45, themadsheep2001 said:

From personal experience in FM22, in terms of instructions I can't overstate the important of using OIs to create pressing triggers and traps. If you want to make the most of pressing they are key

What does Ols stand for? Can someone elaborate how to do it

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10 hours ago, Aoyao said:

What does DIRECT PASS(OR SHORT PASS\LONG PASS) stand for? Can someone elaborate how to do it

Well, this isn’t a question particular related to pressing. However…

A direct pass is neither short or long. It’s a pass that’s played forward (vertical or diagonal). The distance of the pass and wether it’s played on the ground or in the air depends on the position of your players, their technical ability and the demand (which is related to the role) of the receiving player. 

More direct passing is a high risk playing style opposed to a more patient passing style that demands a lot of sideways passing. And to link this up with the topic, a direct pass is often used by the defending team to trigger their press, as the receiving attacker may need to play his back to the goal.

the most efficient way of playing direct is to create diagonal passing patterns, as they combine Progression on the pitch and distract the oppositions defensive shape by making the move from side to side.

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在 2021/12/27 在 AM12点31分, CARRERA说:

Well, this isn’t a question particular related to pressing. However…

A direct pass is neither short or long. It’s a pass that’s played forward (vertical or diagonal). The distance of the pass and wether it’s played on the ground or in the air depends on the position of your players, their technical ability and the demand (which is related to the role) of the receiving player. 

More direct passing is a high risk playing style opposed to a more patient passing style that demands a lot of sideways passing. And to link this up with the topic, a direct pass is often used by the defending team to trigger their press, as the receiving attacker may need to play his back to the goal.

the most efficient way of playing direct is to create diagonal passing patterns, as they combine Progression on the pitch and distract the oppositions defensive shape by making the move from side to side.

 

Thank you for your answer in this post.

Merry Christmas.

 

Edited by Aoyao
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  • 2 months later...

So I want my press to come from specific players against opposition players in a specific part of the pitch/phase of play, I do the following:

  • have a tactic that helps have players in the right spot
  • have players with a modicum of interest in pressing
  • increase the press trigger PI for those players
  • select the press trigger OI against the opposition players who should be in possession of the ball at that point

At a high-level that's it right? But then comes the nuance, which leads to some questions hopefully some people have figured out over the past few months (I've been playing only since 22.3 and was on '21 before):

  • Will other players, without having press trigger PI jacked up naturally join a press if they are in the vicinity? For instance, I don't want my CF triggering a press (so I leave it standard or even knock it down a notch), I want him to join in as the 2nd or 3rd man, when my IF or IW triggers it. I am assuming this is the case, otherwise you cannot have specific players trigger it, pretty much anyone with extra pressing PI will do it wherever and you get a headless chicken press.
  • Can you 'lightly' man mark your expected target, to be hovering as such and waiting to trigger a press, while also having the press trigger turned up? Or having ease off turned and press turned up, confuses the logic and you don't get much of anything good out of it.
  • Will 'show onto left/right foot' help the player's press angle?
  • This is on the assumption of a split block, where I want my back 4 to largely chill and use a front 3/5 for the pressing. TI press trigger more + the above I assume just rachets everything up even more and maybe removes the specificity I'm looking for?
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 08/03/2022 at 02:24, CaptCanuck said:

So I want my press to come from specific players against opposition players in a specific part of the pitch/phase of play, I do the following:

  • have a tactic that helps have players in the right spot
  • have players with a modicum of interest in pressing
  • increase the press trigger PI for those players
  • select the press trigger OI against the opposition players who should be in possession of the ball at that point

 

Yes thats the way its meant to work

 

On 08/03/2022 at 02:24, CaptCanuck said:

 

At a high-level that's it right? But then comes the nuance, which leads to some questions hopefully some people have figured out over the past few months (I've been playing only since 22.3 and was on '21 before):

  • Will other players, without having press trigger PI jacked up naturally join a press if they are in the vicinity? For instance, I don't want my CF triggering a press (so I leave it standard or even knock it down a notch), I want him to join in as the 2nd or 3rd man, when my IF or IW triggers it. I am assuming this is the case, otherwise you cannot have specific players trigger it, pretty much anyone with extra pressing PI will do it wherever and you get a headless chicken press.


This depends on the overall compactness of your tactic. If it has high compression, ie very high defensive line, much higher line of engagment, or a defensively compressed block, then more players will have overlapping zonal areas. So you could find some players stepping up.

Depending on your roles and duties and team instructions, if you have told your CF not to press ie via a PI, then he will do that to everyone. If you have opted to use a pressing trigger for a specific player in the opposition team, he will react to that pressing trigger if it happens. I hope that was clear. In a way, you could specifically tell your CF to ignore everyone except a defender. However once again, if that player is in his zone he could still press. Players in the game aren't expected to be automatons and are expected to behave unpredictably in some cases.

Personally I use a combination of OIs and PIs to set up my traps. I use pressing angles and then only specifically isolate players with hard tackling or pressing triggers. I dont like to use it on too many players because it can lead to messed up defending higher up the pitch.

 

 

On 08/03/2022 at 02:24, CaptCanuck said:

 

  • Can you 'lightly' man mark your expected target, to be hovering as such and waiting to trigger a press, while also having the press trigger turned up? Or having ease off turned and press turned up, confuses the logic and you don't get much of anything good out of it.

The specific man marking instruction via a PI will cause the defending player to track him all over the pitch. I dont recommend it unless you are absolutely certain of how to use it. The OI tight mark is a different one, cos it specifically targets an opposition player and tells defending players to close down passing lane options to him.  So by using the OI you are basically trying to remove him as a passing option. When the ball gets to him, depending once again on your players attributes he could stay closer to him and track him and if you have hard tackling set up, then he may try to go to ground to win the ball back. I have done this a few times when I was 10 man down to win a game, by using very aggressive setups.

 

 

On 08/03/2022 at 02:24, CaptCanuck said:

 

  • Will 'show onto left/right foot' help the player's press angle?

This is meant to be a pressing angle instruction. When choosing this option you are essentially denying opposition players options based on how you want your defending players to stand when they are zonally marking

 

On 08/03/2022 at 02:24, CaptCanuck said:

 

  • This is on the assumption of a split block, where I want my back 4 to largely chill and use a front 3/5 for the pressing. TI press trigger more + the above I assume just rachets everything up even more and maybe removes the specificity I'm looking for?

With a split block if you do that, the front group presses right? Then they go to close down aggressively. The goal when you do this is to pressure the opposition, so the other piece of the split block is asking the rest of your team to either tight mark or tackle hard. You do that because while the pressing block applies the pressure the defending block must win the 2nd ball.

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I basically agree with everything Johann14Cruyff is saying in this thread. The interface is so opaque and unhelpful and could be a lot more direct and transparent. Even just the concept of mentality needs to go, I think. To have one option that affects so many things, both with and without the ball, is incredibly unrealistic. Alright lads, shorter passing, high defensive line, a much higher line of engagement and plenty of closing down please. Relative to a cautious mentality that is.... It's needlessly complex and unconnected with reality. We should be telling the players literally, visually, in absolute terms, what to do on the pitch. Close down starting here. Play passes into this area. Etc. Not trying to guess in what way the vague concept of 'cautious mentality' affects every other instruction we've given.

"Mentality" should be a way of describing the sum of our instructions, not some independent instruction. If I've asked my team to waste time, defend deep, stay back except for the front 3 and take no risks with the ball, that is necessarily a defensive mentality. If I've asked my fullbacks to bomb on, my midfielders to attack the box, my team to get the ball forward as quickly as possible and try to win it high up the pitch while wasting no time, that is necessarily attacking. Not in FM, where I can tell them to do all the most attacking things possible, then declare that in fact my team mentality is defensive, whatever in hell that means. And the horrible thing is that it might actually make the team player better (by mitigating the effects of the extreme instructions) which leaves the user feeling detached from real life and relying on trial and error to make sense of the counterintuitive interface.

I also came here to say, thanks Rashidi for unpicking some of it. But the UI really shouldn't require this much unpicking. It's always been rather vague and badly explained, and in ways that have little do with real football, before anyone chimes in with 'Klopp doesn't have a manual'. Klopp can tell his players directly what to do. We have to do it through an extremely vague, opaque UI and it'd be a much more rewarding experience if we didn't.

 

Feel free to get involved if you agree.

Edited by ceefax the cat
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Now then! Rashidi! I couldn't tempt you into suggesting a pressing trap for a 3-4-2-1(DM) in a low block could I? My current thinking is that I want to try and force the opposition down my right side where the DMRC and RWB can press, knowing that when I win it, my rapid LWB is going to be the one tearing forwards into space. Seems to be easier said than done though, no matter how many times I watch your video!

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On 27/03/2022 at 06:11, Rashidi said:

Yes thats the way its meant to work

 


This depends on the overall compactness of your tactic. If it has high compression, ie very high defensive line, much higher line of engagment, or a defensively compressed block, then more players will have overlapping zonal areas. So you could find some players stepping up.

Depending on your roles and duties and team instructions, if you have told your CF not to press ie via a PI, then he will do that to everyone. If you have opted to use a pressing trigger for a specific player in the opposition team, he will react to that pressing trigger if it happens. I hope that was clear. In a way, you could specifically tell your CF to ignore everyone except a defender. However once again, if that player is in his zone he could still press. Players in the game aren't expected to be automatons and are expected to behave unpredictably in some cases.

Personally I use a combination of OIs and PIs to set up my traps. I use pressing angles and then only specifically isolate players with hard tackling or pressing triggers. I dont like to use it on too many players because it can lead to messed up defending higher up the pitch.

 

 

The specific man marking instruction via a PI will cause the defending player to track him all over the pitch. I dont recommend it unless you are absolutely certain of how to use it. The OI tight mark is a different one, cos it specifically targets an opposition player and tells defending players to close down passing lane options to him.  So by using the OI you are basically trying to remove him as a passing option. When the ball gets to him, depending once again on your players attributes he could stay closer to him and track him and if you have hard tackling set up, then he may try to go to ground to win the ball back. I have done this a few times when I was 10 man down to win a game, by using very aggressive setups.

 

 

This is meant to be a pressing angle instruction. When choosing this option you are essentially denying opposition players options based on how you want your defending players to stand when they are zonally marking

 

With a split block if you do that, the front group presses right? Then they go to close down aggressively. The goal when you do this is to pressure the opposition, so the other piece of the split block is asking the rest of your team to either tight mark or tackle hard. You do that because while the pressing block applies the pressure the defending block must win the 2nd ball.

Thanks for the specific feedback. The clarifications on how I'd thought things could/would work is genuinely helpful!

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