Player Traits and conflict

[vara]

afternoon all

as its says, this is about player traits and potential conflicts. I'm after some opinions/discussion.

The story so far: 
I am managing in Norway, a multiplayer save with a mate, now in our 11th season.
This chap leads the line for us. Which he has done regularly for the last 2 seasons, this being his 3rd.

Below you'll find his returns on that time. Great breakout year, pivotal in our title winning season.

Last season he picked up where he left off and by 18 games we were 2nd and he had his final tally of 18goals.
Then he learned (not through my request) to Place Shots. After which his goals dried up.

Into preseason now and running a few tests as this has got me thinking. Is it possible that multiple positive traits could conflict and cause decision making issues if he is, spoilt for choice, as such.

The way i thought to test is to look at it similar to a CCC being created. an exact scenario where has a clear opportunity to place his shot or round the keeper and the like.

Scenario 1 - put through 1v1 with the keeper. looks to round the keeper and then shoots, being saved.

 

Scenario 2 - played in, one touch, bottom corner

potentially more clearer comparisons to find but these were quick ones use that happened close together in the same match.

Obviously there are numerous factors to take into account which may affect each scenario, but interested to know your thoughts.

Edited September 23, 2021 by vara

[Andrew Marines]

3 ore fa, vara ha scritto:

s it possible that multiple positive traits could conflict and cause decision making issues if he is, spoilt for choice, as such.

Player traits aren't something always working. They depend on the player attributes and especially on the player mentals. think about how the match engine works. Every tick(for explaining like seconds but that's not true) every player on the field takes a decision depending on his attributes. The trait isn't gonna activate unless the player thinks it's the perfect choice in that moment. Malik has decision 13 so he could make a mistake.

Traits could cause conflict? Between them, probably not unless the player is not able to do that.

Trait and tactic? yes. If you play a shorter passing tactic  and a player has a long pass trait, that could cause problems.

But this is preseason man, it's normal that a player makes mistakes.

3 ore fa, vara ha scritto:

Scenario 1

Probably, here he tried to round the keeper but missed the chance so he just tried for the shot. You gotta think the opponent is playing too. The goalkeeper here made a good movement and blocked the vision on the goal

Edited September 23, 2021 by Andrew Marines

[vara]

19 minutes ago, Andrew Marines said:

Probably, here he tried to round the keeper but missed the chance so he just tried for the shot. You gotta think the opponent is playing too. The goalkeeper here made a good movement and blocked the vision on the goal

of course. absolutely agree and not denying the opponent actions here play a part. but it is plausible to consider that they can indeed cause conflict in decision making, unless it is specifically noted somewhere that it is one or the other.

 

31 minutes ago, Andrew Marines said:

Trait and tactic? yes. If you play a shorter passing tactic  and a player has a long pass trait, that could cause problems

well yes i also agree with this. but these are known as the TIs indicate the conflict. whereas the ones im referring to are not affected by TIs.

i feel there is more to it, hence the post. thanks for the reply, of course. im also well aware its not a huge issue in the grand scheme, but it was on my mind this arvo so here we are.

[Flokerface]

I don't think I have had any players with the places shots and rounds keeper combination, but I am not sure why these would even be in conflict. Rounds keeper probably conflicts with likes to lob keeper, and perhaps with tries first time shots. However, rounds keeper means the player likes to (but won't always) dribble in a one-on-one, as opposed to shooting. Places shots means when that when the player decises to shoot (which may be before or after rounding the keeper), the player likes to (but won't always) use his technique and finishing skill to put the ball somewhere with a high chance of goal, as opposed to just smashing it home.

For player prefered moves related to finishing (places shots, shoots with power, tries first time shots), I find the imporant thing to consider is the player's stats. For example, shoots with power is really nice for someone with high finishing, but perhaps lacking in composure. Places shots, on the other hand, is really great on players with good mix of composure, finishing and technique.

Looking at your striker, he has 14 in both finishing and composure. Those are solid stats for a player in the Norwegian league. His technique is 17, which is exceptional at that level. In other words, stats-wise he seems very capable of placing his shots. His decision-making is also good for his level. His strength is alright, and his agility and balance is off the charts for a player based in Norway, so I wouldn't expect him to have any trouble shielding the ball if he's taking a moment to pick his target either. Based on his stats places shots seems potentially quite useful!

There could be any number of reasons why your striker is in a rut, but I would be surprised if picking up places shots was the main, or even an important reason. 

Without knowing anything else than what you have shared, a simpler explanation could be that his and your (the club) reputation has caught up with him. Are teams are playing more defensively against you, and in particular are they paying extra attention to your dangerman up front?

[bosque]

Now that we are talking about this trait, i think I never saw a FM goal with a player rounding the goalkeeper.

[vara]

7 hours ago, Flokerface said:

Without knowing anything else than what you have shared, a simpler explanation could be that his and your (the club) reputation has caught up with him. Are teams are playing more defensively against you, and in particular are they paying extra attention to your dangerman up front?

fair points and you're absolutely right re: his ability for the level.

This comment in particular is true, which was noted and adjusted for. After winning the league (in the fashion we did), it was expected that they would approach us differently and did. However, i made necessary adjustments and we still created considerable amounts of good chances to cover it. Either way these are things to expect and did indeed happen, which definitely could play a part which hasn't been taken into consideration above.

slump aside, new season has started and he broke is 20game scoring drought 10mins into season start. Collecting 5 in the opening 2 games, so confidence is up. This on the back of a decent AFCON during the off season.

I am noting his chances as we go for my own interest, if i notice anything interesting i'll update. Plus comparing to the rotation strikers to see their comparative behaviours.

cheers

[Rashidi]

Generally traits are a tendency to do something more of. Now with one trait on a player you can kind of anticipate what happens.

For example a player has hugs line. With that trait he gives you width, and could end up going wider even if you are on narrow width. Now this gives us some interesting combinations with other roles, allowing us to stretch defences. What if that same player also has great finishing and off the ball, and you decide to give him "gets into opposition area". Now it gets a bit more complicated. 

He will sometimes hug the line and sometimes he will come inside to score. So say you overload one side of the pitch, expecting to see him stretch play he could do something you don't expect.

When it comes to traits you can train someone to have as many as 7 traits, I think 7 is the most. I can't verify that but whoever was on my FM19 stream probably remembered Almada, who had so many traits that we were able to train him with that he became very unpredictable. That would tend to cause me all kinds of problems anticipating how the tactic could work. 

What about other traits? Everyone seems to think playmakers need plays killer balls, but i disagree. A playmaker is already inclined to play those as part of his role, the trait increases the tendency to do that. It means that he could attempt low percentage chances as well. In some systems like striker-less systems, this could be bad. In striker-less systems you don't want to be giving the ball away in the opponents third. 

Understanding how traits work is important. There are some traits that I rate very highly, but that doesn't mean i go give everyone in the team the trait. My playmakers only use one trait and another if I am playing wide systems. If I want to play narrow systems then I have a few players who like one-twos in my team.

I will be doing several soaks this year, a traits soak where I test how certain systems do with traits and do a video on it. i will also include this in a public guide I will be sharing with everyone this year. I also plan to do my annual 'highest nett xG formation', traits will play a part in both soaks.

 

[Johnny Ace]

14 hours ago, bosque said:

Now that we are talking about this trait, i think I never saw a FM goal with a player rounding the goalkeeper.

Really? It's pretty common but the animation for it isn't great, they just sort of knock the ball to the side of the keeper & slot home 

[bosque]

hace 6 horas, Johnny Ace dijo:

Really? It's pretty common but the animation for it isn't great, they just sort of knock the ball to the side of the keeper & slot home 

Should it be something like this?

I thought the trait mean the player tries to dribble past the keeper leaving him behind.

Edited September 24, 2021 by bosque

[Johnny Ace]

48 minutes ago, bosque said:

Should it be something like this?

I thought the trait mean the player tries to dribble past the keeper leaving him behind.

Yeah, in FM they just feint to the side of the keeper, not as sexy looking as real life 

[Johnny Ace]

Here's an FM rounding