Exploiting the inverted wingback

[fivetwelvepony]

I have a right-footed left winger playing as an IW. I noticed that the opposition will often play an inverted wingback against him. I tested this by having him swap with the AMC, who is left footed and can also play the wing, and the opposition immediately switches to a regular wingback. 

I would guess that this is something that could be exploited, or at least countered using an overload. One option would be to have an overlapping fullback. Alternatively, would a mezzala on attack get far enough wide to cause the IWB problems? Could I play with two forwards, and have the left-sided striker stay wider?

[zyfon5]

48 minutes ago, fivetwelvepony said:

I have a right-footed left winger playing as an IW. I noticed that the opposition will often play an inverted wingback against him. I tested this by having him swap with the AMC, who is left footed and can also play the wing, and the opposition immediately switches to a regular wingback. 

I would guess that this is something that could be exploited, or at least countered using an overload. One option would be to have an overlapping fullback. Alternatively, would a mezzala on attack get far enough wide to cause the IWB problems? Could I play with two forwards, and have the left-sided striker stay wider?

It only matters to the opposition when they are in possession. Whether they are playing inverted wing back or normal wing back does not matter when you are in possession both roles defend the same way. Sorry if I missed something obvious.

[fivetwelvepony]

I thought I'd read that they play a bit differently defensively as well. For instance:

https://strikerless.com/2020/03/01/understanding-roles-in-fm-the-defenders/

Quote

The inverted wing-backs’ tendency to cut inside doesn’t stop when an attack breaks down and this tendency helps the team in the defensive phase. By playing a bit more narrow than a regular wingback, the inverted wing-backs assist their midfielders by cutting off the half-space opportunities for opposition players. If an opponent takes up a position between a central midfielder and the IWB, the latter closes down from the outside while the former moves toward the opponent from the inside. This forms a kind of pincer movement that congesting the space available to the opposition player. When the IWB is facing a regular winger or inside forward, he acts as a traditional wingback, marking his opponent and moving outside to take on his marker when needed.

 

[zabyl]

25 dakika önce, fivetwelvepony said:

 

I thought I'd read that they play a bit differently defensively as well. For instance:

 

IWBd; stays closer to defenders like a DM after attacking transition. Turns back to FB position after defensive transition.

IWBs; stays closer to CMs after attacking transition. Turns back to FB position after defensive transition.

IWBa; stays closer to AMs after attacking transition. Turns back to FB position after defensive transition.

 

If opposition uses an IWBd to defend your IW/IF, you have less time to exploit the space it can give after their attacking transition. It is a weak chance but can be tried with a faster tempo + pass into space + focus play if your player is fast enough and have good first touch.

Edited September 21, 2021 by zabyl

[zyfon5]

2 hours ago, fivetwelvepony said:

I thought I'd read that they play a bit differently defensively as well. For instance:

https://strikerless.com/2020/03/01/understanding-roles-in-fm-the-defenders/

 

There is a little bit of difference if you insist just like any other roles but in general there is not too much of a difference that you can exploit unless it is in the transition phase. The last sentence basically confirms what I have been saying 

When the IWB is facing a regular winger or inside forward, he acts as a traditional wingback, marking his opponent and moving outside to take on his marker when needed.

 

 

 

[Flokerface]

8 hours ago, fivetwelvepony said:

I would guess that this is something that could be exploited, or at least countered using an overload. One option would be to have an overlapping fullback. Alternatively, would a mezzala on attack get far enough wide to cause the IWB problems? Could I play with two forwards, and have the left-sided striker stay wider?

Yes, it can be exploited, and it can be exploited regardless of the role and duty of the opposing defender. 

An IW-Mez-combination works very well, though be vary that they should be on opposite duties (e.g. IW-A means Mez-S or the other way around). Both Mez-S and Mez-A are happy to overlap a wide forward (IF/IW) that cuts inside. If you are specifically looking for the IW to drag the fullback inside to create room for the Mez to overlap and get into a crossing position, I would expect an IW-A/Mez-S combination to work better, as a Mez-A has a very high mentality and may bomb down the channel and into the box rather than waiting for the opportunity to overlap.

Having a fullback (FB-A, WB-S or WB-A) that likes to get forward and overlap and IW is the "classic" way of overloading the opposing fullback.

The option of two forwards is less likely to work, however. Forwards rarely move wider than the channels, especially in the attacking phase (some roles come wide to pick up the ball during transitions). Such movement in combination with an IW could overload the channel, however, and give the closest CB problems. This, in itself, is not really what you are asking for, but can work really well in combination with the overlapping fullback.

[zabyl]

11 dakika önce, Flokerface said:

Yes, it can be exploited, and it can be exploited regardless of the role and duty of the opposing defender. 

An IW-Mez-combination works very well, though be vary that they should be on opposite duties (e.g. IW-A means Mez-S or the other way around). Both Mez-S and Mez-A are happy to overlap a wide forward (IF/IW) that cuts inside. If you are specifically looking for the IW to drag the fullback inside to create room for the Mez to overlap and get into a crossing position, I would expect an IW-A/Mez-S combination to work better, as a Mez-A has a very high mentality and may bomb down the channel and into the box rather than waiting for the opportunity to overlap.

Having a fullback (FB-A, WB-S or WB-A) that likes to get forward and overlap and IW is the "classic" way of overloading the opposing fullback.

The option of two forwards is less likely to work, however. Forwards rarely move wider than the channels, especially in the attacking phase (some roles come wide to pick up the ball during transitions). Such movement in combination with an IW could overload the channel, however, and give the closest CB problems. This, in itself, is not really what you are asking for, but can work really well in combination with the overlapping fullback.

With all due respect, these are not exploits. These are overloads. Exploit is a different thing. For example; to benefit from a formation’s potential weakness or a role’s.

[Flokerface]

2 minutes ago, zabyl said:

With all due respect, these are not exploits. These are overloads. Exploit is a different thing. For example; to benefit from a formation’s potential weakness or a role’s.

Uhh... ok. So if you are overloading the flank against an isolated fullback, e.g. in a narrow 4-1-2-1-2, does that count as an exploit or not? The terms do not seem mutually exclusive. Exploits, as you define them, would very often be done precisely through overloads, no?

[zabyl]

3 dakika önce, Flokerface said:

Uhh... ok. So if you are overloading the flank against an isolated fullback, e.g. in a narrow 4-1-2-1-2, does that count as an exploit or not? The terms do not seem mutually exclusive. Exploits, as you define them, would very often be done precisely through overloads, no?

Yes, it is an exploit to me..

It is not an exploit if you create a weakness on opposition and benefit. If opposition has a weakness you didn’t create, taking advantage of this is an exploit to me.

[Vicz]

Hi All, 

Just wanted to bump this topic. Playing FM23 online save and all the human players play with IWBs in a 42DM31. It’s pretty annoying it appears that the role is pretty poorly balanced in game so much so that it doesn’t matter if you have full backs that are more suited to being wingbacks you’re better off playing them as IWB to give your defence more stability. Just wondering if anyone thinks they know a way to exploit a weakness in IWBs? My initial thoughts are to play wider and more direct, that has seemingly made a bit of difference but would be interested to hear any other ideas..

[Cloud9]

11 hours ago, Vicz said:

Hi All, 

Just wanted to bump this topic. Playing FM23 online save and all the human players play with IWBs in a 42DM31. It’s pretty annoying it appears that the role is pretty poorly balanced in game so much so that it doesn’t matter if you have full backs that are more suited to being wingbacks you’re better off playing them as IWB to give your defence more stability. Just wondering if anyone thinks they know a way to exploit a weakness in IWBs? My initial thoughts are to play wider and more direct, that has seemingly made a bit of difference but would be interested to hear any other ideas..

Focus play down the side of an inverted wingback.

This forum isn't really for PvP though. Many exploits to be had in the game. 

[Lordluap]

On 19/04/2023 at 10:21, Vicz said:

Hi All, 

Just wanted to bump this topic. Playing FM23 online save and all the human players play with IWBs in a 42DM31. It’s pretty annoying it appears that the role is pretty poorly balanced in game so much so that it doesn’t matter if you have full backs that are more suited to being wingbacks you’re better off playing them as IWB to give your defence more stability. Just wondering if anyone thinks they know a way to exploit a weakness in IWBs? My initial thoughts are to play wider and more direct, that has seemingly made a bit of difference but would be interested to hear any other ideas..

Why would they play with IWBs AND 2x DM?  Doesn't that make the IWB role ineffective and they resort to being standard Wingbacks?  That's the case in FM22 and prior at least...?

[Vicz]

58 minutes ago, Lordluap said:

Why would they play with IWBs AND 2x DM?  Doesn't that make the IWB role ineffective and they resort to being standard Wingbacks?  That's the case in FM22 and prior at least...?

Well it seems to be incredibly effective. I think it just causes an overload in the middle.