Patterns of progression and attack in a possession tactic

Flokerface · September 18, 2021

Hi everyone

Occasional lurker, first-time poster, and long time FM ~~addict~~ enthusiast here.

In my sporadic lurking, I have noticed certain topics and questions showing up with some regularity. A lot of people want to play an eye-catching, attacking possession style, often specifically in the mould of Pep Guardiola. I get it. I want to do that too!

This thread isn’t going to be an exercise in Pep tactic recreation, however. Others have done that far better than I could do! Instead, I want to discuss what exactly it is I try to accomplish when I set up possession-based tactics in FM, with the tactic I am currently using in an ongoing save as a point of departure.

In particular, I want to discuss how I use combinations of roles and instructions to create certain patterns of play. I want to focus on this, because when talking about possession-based play – at least if you want to avoid sterile, sideways passing between your defensive players – is often about constructing complex patterns of play that pull the opposition out of position, or overload key areas of the pitch.

So, let’s meet our manager. He’s a young, idealistic Brit named Thomas Norton. Born in the mid-90ies he’s just old enough to remember to Arsene Wenger’s incredible invincible team, with their fluid attacking football. In his teens he watched Pep Guardiola’s Barcelona dismantling Sir Alex Ferguson’s Man Utd in not one Champions League final, but two, and he thought “I want to create something like that”. Like that, because Thomas was always his own man, wanting to create something of his own rather than simply copying.

And so, Thomas set about building his philosophy. Its main tenets are rather simple:

· Attacking with flair and skill, using dribbling and quick combination play to break through defences.

· Defending on the front foot, by retaining possession and pressing to denying the opposition time on the ball

Well, everything sounds simple when summed up like that. As we will see, there is a lot going into setting up a tactic to achieve Thomas’ apparently simple philosophy. Before we get to that, let me just briefly set the scene.

Thomas is the manager of (fictional club) Ceriswood Football Club, the largest club of the mid-sized (fictional) Welsh city of Ceriswood. He took over the club when they were playing in the Wessex League Premier Division. Which is in the ninth tier of the English footballing pyramid. At first glance, it seemed like a good deal. A professional club with a 20 000 capacity stadium that the club could expect to fill on special nights, Ceriswood had far more resources than any other club that side of the Football League. On the downside, there was the crippling £60 million of debt and a fan-controlled board adamant the club had to play possession-based football using home-grown talents. A good fit for Thomas’ philosophy, but a difficult proposition in the ninth tier. Thomas, however, is bequeathed with the magical powers of being the player-manager. On the face of it, this is just another lower league challenge (I have a passion for those), with just a few particular unique circumstances that adds some challenges, but in sum makes it a fair bit easier than usual.

As such, I had no intention of doing a write-up based on my save, but in season eight something very special happened to make me reconsider. It was my first season in the Championship. I was clear favourite for the drop and based on the team comparison it was hard to disagree. Even my best stats, such as passing, first touch and decisions barely broke the league average. I did have a few stars in the first team I was confident would carry me through the campaign, and so thought the season would be something of a “free hit” to experiment a bit tactically. I had an experimental set-up I had used a bit in dead-rubbers at the end of the season before, and wanted to see what I could make out of it.

Well, it just clicked. Everything Thomas wanted it to do, it did, and Ceriswood kept winning even when having to field players who weren’t quite up to it in the lower leagues. Ceriswood ended the season with well-deserved Championship and League Cup titles, and a very, very lucky FA Cup win too. Now, I realise this probably comes off pretty braggy. But I am setting the scene to show why I was inspired to, for the first time, post here and share my ideas and how I try to make them come alive in the game.

And so, I will try to do just that. I will try to illustrate with pictures and video clips as best as I can, though bear with me since I have never done this before and am struggling a bit with recording examples. Also, since this is based on my work in a save I play for fun, rather than having planned to write up, I won’t always have good examples to show right on hand. There will be several things I write about where I know there was a good example in a recent match, but then I either could not find it again, or failed in my inexperienced efforts to record it.

I have rambled enough. Sorry for that. Let’s get into the actual tactic, and then break down what Thomas is looking to achieve on the field!

Some of this may be recognisable if you have dabbled with possession-based tactics before. The 4-3-3. Pass out of defence. Shorter passing. Work the ball into the box. Inverted wingers. Thomas has not come up with something completely insane meant to blow your mind. That’s not the point. I am not here to show you a ground-breaking, revolutionary plug-and-play, but rather to discuss what the set-up is meant to accomplish (and indeed, for Thomas and Ceriswood, often does accomplish). To do this, I guess the most logical place to start is how Ceriswood builds up from the back.

Build-up from the back and progression down the right

When discussing how Ceriswood builds their play, it is pertinent to stop for a moment a consider why they build up from the back.

The simple answer is to create space, or time. By passing the ball from the back, the opponent is enticed to press higher. If this first line of pressure can be by-passed, space opens up in the middle of the field for more advanced, creative players to break into and overload a retreating defence. The ideal situation is when the bypassing opponents that commit a lot of people (e.g. the entire front four of a 4-2-3-1) to this press. In such a situation, the advanced players will usually find themselves in plenty of space to receive the ball and then accelerate, allowing them to run at and unbalance to defence.

Note that playing out of defence to invite pressure is inherently risky. A misplaced pass or poor first touch can mean a turnover close to the Ceriswood goal. The way Thomas sets up his team shape in the early build-up phase is meant to mitigate this risk by creating diamonds that are hard for the opposition to cover.

The keeper, central defenders and deep-lying playmaker make a diamond, and with the instructions play out of defence and take shorter kicks they will drop all the way down to the penalty area to initiate play. If the opponent does not press, the keeper can play to the ball-playing defender or the playmaker, who can both use their passing range to initiate attacks. If the opponent does press, they need to commit three players to deal with this initial diamond.

However, even with a top-heavy formation such as a 4-2-3-1, that still leaves options. By pushing up a front three or four, the opposition still leaves the inverted wing-backs free. They can either be reached by a chipped ball from the keeper, or a quick, risky exchange through the DLP or closest CB. They form a diamond with those two players, as well as the closest central midfielder. Since the IWBs stay narrower, the diamonds are relatively compact, making it easier to play simple passes back and forth even against a pressing opponent.

The DLP is the hub between the three diamonds, and as such a key player both to resist the press and progress the ball. However, it is important that he is not alone in looking to play progressively. As such, the diamonds are set up so that there is always one other player that takes more risks. The BDP to the right, and the Mez to the left. A further key element to making the diamonds a source of ball progression is the movement ahead of the ball. Therefore, both the players at the tip look to get further forward, roam from position and move into channels. These all come hard-coded to the Mez, while the latter two are added as additional personal instructions for the CM on attack.

The dynamic movement of the Mez and CM-A potentially opens new passing lanes that bypass the initial press. Thus, the opponent also has to commit their midfield screen, which opens up a large gap between the lines. The inverted wingers, with the personal instruction stay wider is already occupying this space and stretching the defensive line, while the false nine is happy to drop into this space. Thus, the opponent has a difficult choice to make: Either they need to drop off, giving my BPD, DLP and mezzala space and time to play. Or, they have to hope their high press prevents the progressive pass, knowing a failure will have my dynamic front three running with the ball against a stretched, unsupported defence. Unfortunately, I wasn’t successful in making a recording of such a by-pass-the-press-situation, but I will perhaps elaborate on this in a later post.

So what then if the opponent does not press high? This is when build-up becomes about creating time. If the opponent stands off, it means they are playing a mid- or low block and are crowding that very midfield area we previously looked at opening. Just lumping the ball forward in such a situation means needing to win some tough duels and competing for second balls. Which you can, with the right players and set-up, but that’s not really an option for Thomas and Ceriswood. So, they need clever movement to open passing lanes, and a combination of creative players who can progress the ball through line-splitting passes or dribbling, and runners who can open up space for those progressive actions.

Consider this situation against a 4-4-2 in a midblock. With no one stopping the short ball from kick-off, the BPD is on the ball with time to pick a pass. However, the opposing strikers are in a position to intercept passes into midfield, while the opposing midfield is denying space in midfield. However, because of our BPD-DLP-IWB-CM-diamond, we already have two options open. The opposing striker can only cover one of these. Additionally, we have everyone except the CD moving dynamically off the ball to create angles (white arrows are potential off the ball movement, black arrows are avenues of ball progression).

The DLP and F9 will naturally drop into space to receive the ball. The Mez and CM-A will, as previously described, roam from position and move into channels. Both will get further forward, but the Mez on support stays a bit deeper in build-up to give the DLP a short, progressive option. With the BDP on the ball, the CM-A runs ahead to put pressure on the defensive positioning of the opponent, which both opens more space for the right IWB to move into and distracts from the movement of the F9. On a support duty, the IWB is happy to roam into the channel and make a progressive play, by combining with the IW or the F9 dropping into space.

We can see some of these movements, and the role of the BPD in initiating attacks through progressive passes in my recent 2-0 away win over Sporting. It was Ceriswood’s first ever European appearance, and a match I expected to lose. However, we won deservedly in part because my BPD, Goncalo Cardoso, was afforded time on the ball.

We score the first goal from a goal kick. Carlos Alberto in goal passes short to DLP Agustín Cabrera, who lays it off to Cardoso. Sporting is playing a mid-block, so Cardoso is allowed to advance with the ball, before finding IWB Julijan Popovic, who has moved into the channel. At this point, Sporting wants to start engaging their press, but Popovic has time to pick out our F9, Matt James, who has made a lateral run, pulling a midfielder. James picks up the ball, and dribbles towards the right. This isn’t particularly dangerous in itself, but he pulls three players towards him (left CM, LM and LB). James lays it off to our IW, José Felipe, who suddenly has a lot of space to cut into. Which he does. Meanwhile, the opposite IW, Tim Walter, has taken up a position as striker, and runs into the through-ball José Felipe eventually releases and is one-on-one! The goalkeeper is alert and stops Walter, but James has followed play up the field and appears to strike home the rebound.

For the second goal, we see Cardoso intercept a long-ball. Being a BDP, he is comfortable advancing with the ball at his feet (and Sporting is initially obliging in this case!). This time, both Popovic and José Felipe stay wide on the right to occupy the opposing LM and LB, meaning a CM must come over to cover Cardoso’s advance. This leaves space in the middle, where James drops deep to receive the ball. Meanwhile, our CM-A, Stefan Mols (who joined us for free in the Southern League Premier South. He’s come a long way!) has moved into the hole and receives the lay-off, lingers on the ball for just a moment and then puts James through on goal with a well-timed pass.

So here we have two examples of how the ball can be progressed up the right side of the field, starting with the BPD. On this right side, the diamond (BPD, DLP, IWB-s and CM-a) is a bit more expansive than the left, with the deeper players being more willing to play risky, progressive passes, and the forward players being free to take up more advanced positions. One thing to note here is that the role of the BPD is not to retain possession, but to progress play. The rest of the right side is, in part, set up to facilitate this progression.

In order to keep this post at a readable length, I think I will stop there. I hope it has been interesting so far, and hopefully given at least one reader a new idea they want to try. In the future, I intend to cover several more topics relating to how Thomas Norton sets up his Ceriswood-team to play. At the very least, I have plans for the following topics, possibly with more to come:

- How the IWB facilitates variation on the right in advanced positions

- Combination play through the middle, and how the DLP controls it

- How the left side functions in attack, and particularly how the Mez unlocks established defences

Edit:

Second post about inverted wingbacks and switching play: https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/557047-patterns-of-progression-and-attack-in-a-possession-tactic/?do=findComment&comment=13254887

Third post about attacking the left channel: https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/557047-patterns-of-progression-and-attack-in-a-possession-tactic/?do=findComment&comment=13259160

Fourth post about vertical movements: https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/557047-patterns-of-progression-and-attack-in-a-possession-tactic/?do=findComment&comment=13661049

Edited July 25, 2022 by Flokerface

Aquaplex · September 18, 2021

Excellent read.

coach vahid · September 18, 2021

I don't know if it's working but i like the theory...

A pleasure to read. New talent here.

Edited September 18, 2021 by coach vahid

davidbarros2 · September 19, 2021

One of the best threads I've seem recently, congrats! You got me thinking about FM and football IRL aswell...

zabyl · September 19, 2021

2 saat önce, coach vahid said:

I don't know if it's working but i like the theory...

Yeah, those ideas worked for me last year with FM20. I didn’t use my Pep replication on FM21 but I’m sure his tactic works if there is a good DLP…

This was my Manchester City replication for FM20:

RB-sit narrower

CMa-roam, channels

MEZs-risks //De Bruyne

IWa-stay wider //Mahrez

IFs-stay wider

Balanced mentality, one level higher width, shorter passing, play out of defence, lower crosses, be more expressive, counter-press, take short kicks, higher DL+LOE, max pressing, prevent short gk distribution.

DLPs is the most important player in my tactic. Defensively good, hardworking, not slow playmaker must be the first choice.

I had seen more than %80 possession on some games when I used this and average possession was between %70-75.

Balanced mentality+shorter passing creates space with some back passes from front players to centre backs to draw out defensive opposition. This replicates real life possession football for me. I didn’t see many examples on higher team mentalities. Maybe this can give an idea to possession football fans.

blackmoix · September 19, 2021

hace 13 horas, Flokerface dijo:

Hi everyone

Occasional lurker, first-time poster, and long time FM ~~addict~~ enthusiast here.

In my sporadic lurking, I have noticed certain topics and questions showing up with some regularity. A lot of people want to play an eye-catching, attacking possession style, often specifically in the mould of Pep Guardiola. I get it. I want to do that too!

This thread isn’t going to be an exercise in Pep tactic recreation, however. Others have done that far better than I could do! Instead, I want to discuss what exactly it is I try to accomplish when I set up possession-based tactics in FM, with the tactic I am currently using in an ongoing save as a point of departure.

In particular, I want to discuss how I use combinations of roles and instructions to create certain patterns of play. I want to focus on this, because when talking about possession-based play – at least if you want to avoid sterile, sideways passing between your defensive players – is often about constructing complex patterns of play that pull the opposition out of position, or overload key areas of the pitch.

So, let’s meet our manager. He’s a young, idealistic Brit named Thomas Norton. Born in the mid-90ies he’s just old enough to remember to Arsene Wenger’s incredible invincible team, with their fluid attacking football. In his teens he watched Pep Guardiola’s Barcelona dismantling Sir Alex Ferguson’s Man Utd in not one Champions League final, but two, and he thought “I want to create something like that”. Like that, because Thomas was always his own man, wanting to create something of his own rather than simply copying.

And so, Thomas set about building his philosophy. Its main tenets are rather simple:

·         Attacking with flair and skill, using dribbling and quick combination play to break through defences.

·         Defending on the front foot, by retaining possession and pressing to denying the opposition time on the ball

Well, everything sounds simple when summed up like that. As we will see, there is a lot going into setting up a tactic to achieve Thomas’ apparently simple philosophy. Before we get to that, let me just briefly set the scene.

Thomas is the manager of (fictional club) Ceriswood Football Club, the largest club of the mid-sized (fictional) Welsh city of Ceriswood. He took over the club when they were playing in the Wessex League Premier Division. Which is in the ninth tier of the English footballing pyramid. At first glance, it seemed like a good deal. A professional club with a 20 000 capacity stadium that the club could expect to fill on special nights, Ceriswood had far more resources than any other club that side of the Football League. On the downside, there was the crippling £60 million of debt and a fan-controlled board adamant the club had to play possession-based football using home-grown talents. A good fit for Thomas’ philosophy, but a difficult proposition in the ninth tier. Thomas, however, is bequeathed with the magical powers of being the player-manager. On the face of it, this is just another lower league challenge (I have a passion for those), with just a few particular unique circumstances that adds some challenges, but in sum makes it a fair bit easier than usual.

As such, I had no intention of doing a write-up based on my save, but in season eight something very special happened to make me reconsider. It was my first season in the Championship. I was clear favourite for the drop and based on the team comparison it was hard to disagree. Even my best stats, such as passing, first touch and decisions barely broke the league average. I did have a few stars in the first team I was confident would carry me through the campaign, and so thought the season would be something of a “free hit” to experiment a bit tactically. I had an experimental set-up I had used a bit in dead-rubbers at the end of the season before, and wanted to see what I could make out of it.

Well, it just clicked. Everything Thomas wanted it to do, it did, and Ceriswood kept winning even when having to field players who weren’t quite up to it in the lower leagues. Ceriswood ended the season with well-deserved Championship and League Cup titles, and a very, very lucky FA Cup win too. Now, I realise this probably comes off pretty braggy. But I am setting the scene to show why I was inspired to, for the first time, post here and share my ideas and how I try to make them come alive in the game.

And so, I will try to do just that. I will try to illustrate with pictures and video clips as best as I can, though bear with me since I have never done this before and am struggling a bit with recording examples. Also, since this is based on my work in a save I play for fun, rather than having planned to write up, I won’t always have good examples to show right on hand. There will be several things I write about where I know there was a good example in a recent match, but then I either could not find it again, or failed in my inexperienced efforts to record it.

I have rambled enough. Sorry for that. Let’s get into the actual tactic, and then break down what Thomas is looking to achieve on the field!

Some of this may be recognisable if you have dabbled with possession-based tactics before. The 4-3-3. Pass out of defence. Shorter passing. Work the ball into the box. Inverted wingers. Thomas has not come up with something completely insane meant to blow your mind. That’s not the point. I am not here to show you a ground-breaking, revolutionary plug-and-play, but rather to discuss what the set-up is meant to accomplish (and indeed, for Thomas and Ceriswood, often does accomplish). To do this, I guess the most logical place to start is how Ceriswood builds up from the back.

Build-up from the back and progression down the right

When discussing how Ceriswood builds their play, it is pertinent to stop for a moment a consider why they build up from the back.

The simple answer is to create space, or time. By passing the ball from the back, the opponent is enticed to press higher. If this first line of pressure can be by-passed, space opens up in the middle of the field for more advanced, creative players to break into and overload a retreating defence. The ideal situation is when the bypassing opponents that commit a lot of people (e.g. the entire front four of a 4-2-3-1) to this press. In such a situation, the advanced players will usually find themselves in plenty of space to receive the ball and then accelerate, allowing them to run at and unbalance to defence.

Note that playing out of defence to invite pressure is inherently risky. A misplaced pass or poor first touch can mean a turnover close to the Ceriswood goal. The way Thomas sets up his team shape in the early build-up phase is meant to mitigate this risk by creating diamonds that are hard for the opposition to cover.

The keeper, central defenders and deep-lying playmaker make a diamond, and with the instructions play out of defence and take shorter kicks they will drop all the way down to the penalty area to initiate play. If the opponent does not press, the keeper can play to the ball-playing defender or the playmaker, who can both use their passing range to initiate attacks. If the opponent does press, they need to commit three players to deal with this initial diamond.

However, even with a top-heavy formation such as a 4-2-3-1, that still leaves options. By pushing up a front three or four, the opposition still leaves the inverted wing-backs free. They can either be reached by a chipped ball from the keeper, or a quick, risky exchange through the DLP or closest CB. They form a diamond with those two players, as well as the closest central midfielder. Since the IWBs stay narrower, the diamonds are relatively compact, making it easier to play simple passes back and forth even against a pressing opponent.

The DLP is the hub between the three diamonds, and as such a key player both to resist the press and progress the ball. However, it is important that he is not alone in looking to play progressively. As such, the diamonds are set up so that there is always one other player that takes more risks. The BDP to the right, and the Mez to the left. A further key element to making the diamonds a source of ball progression is the movement ahead of the ball. Therefore, both the players at the tip look to get further forward, roam from position and move into channels. These all come hard-coded to the Mez, while the latter two are added as additional personal instructions for the CM on attack.

The dynamic movement of the Mez and CM-A potentially opens new passing lanes that bypass the initial press. Thus, the opponent also has to commit their midfield screen, which opens up a large gap between the lines. The inverted wingers, with the personal instruction stay wider is already occupying this space and stretching the defensive line, while the false nine is happy to drop into this space. Thus, the opponent has a difficult choice to make: Either they need to drop off, giving my BPD, DLP and mezzala space and time to play. Or, they have to hope their high press prevents the progressive pass, knowing a failure will have my dynamic front three running with the ball against a stretched, unsupported defence. Unfortunately, I wasn’t successful in making a recording of such a by-pass-the-press-situation, but I will perhaps elaborate on this in a later post.

So what then if the opponent does not press high? This is when build-up becomes about creating time. If the opponent stands off, it means they are playing a mid- or low block and are crowding that very midfield area we previously looked at opening. Just lumping the ball forward in such a situation means needing to win some tough duels and competing for second balls. Which you can, with the right players and set-up, but that’s not really an option for Thomas and Ceriswood. So, they need clever movement to open passing lanes, and a combination of creative players who can progress the ball through line-splitting passes or dribbling, and runners who can open up space for those progressive actions.

Consider this situation against a 4-4-2 in a midblock. With no one stopping the short ball from kick-off, the BPD is on the ball with time to pick a pass. However, the opposing strikers are in a position to intercept passes into midfield, while the opposing midfield is denying space in midfield. However, because of our BPD-DLP-IWB-CM-diamond, we already have two options open. The opposing striker can only cover one of these. Additionally, we have everyone except the CD moving dynamically off the ball to create angles (white arrows are potential off the ball movement, black arrows are avenues of ball progression).

The DLP and F9 will naturally drop into space to receive the ball. The Mez and CM-A will, as previously described, roam from position and move into channels. Both will get further forward, but the Mez on support stays a bit deeper in build-up to give the DLP a short, progressive option. With the BDP on the ball, the CM-A runs ahead to put pressure on the defensive positioning of the opponent, which both opens more space for the right IWB to move into and distracts from the movement of the F9. On a support duty, the IWB is happy to roam into the channel and make a progressive play, by combining with the IW or the F9 dropping into space.

We can see some of these movements, and the role of the BPD in initiating attacks through progressive passes in my recent 2-0 away win over Sporting. It was Ceriswood’s first ever European appearance, and a match I expected to lose. However, we won deservedly in part because my BPD, Goncalo Cardoso, was afforded time on the ball.

https://youtu.be/EZWob923UXM (uhm, I couldn't figure out how to embed the video. I'm sure there's some easy way I am missing, so if someone points me in the right direction I will fix it!)

We score the first goal from a goal kick. Carlos Alberto in goal passes short to DLP Agustín Cabrera, who lays it off to Cardoso. Sporting is playing a mid-block, so Cardoso is allowed to advance with the ball, before finding IWB Julijan Popovic, who has moved into the channel. At this point, Sporting wants to start engaging their press, but Popovic has time to pick out our F9, Matt James, who has made a lateral run, pulling a midfielder. James picks up the ball, and dribbles towards the right. This isn’t particularly dangerous in itself, but he pulls three players towards him (left CM, LM and LB). James lays it off to our IW, José Felipe, who suddenly has a lot of space to cut into. Which he does. Meanwhile, the opposite IW, Tim Walter, has taken up a position as striker, and runs into the through-ball José Felipe eventually releases and is one-on-one! The goalkeeper is alert and stops Walter, but James has followed play up the field and appears to strike home the rebound.

For the second goal, we see Cardoso intercept a long-ball. Being a BDP, he is comfortable advancing with the ball at his feet (and Sporting is initially obliging in this case!). This time, both Popovic and José Felipe stay wide on the right to occupy the opposing LM and LB, meaning a CM must come over to cover Cardoso’s advance. This leaves space in the middle, where James drops deep to receive the ball. Meanwhile, our CM-A, Stefan Mols (who joined us for free in the Southern League Premier South. He’s come a long way!) has moved into the hole and receives the lay-off, lingers on the ball for just a moment and then puts James through on goal with a well-timed pass.

So here we have two examples of how the ball can be progressed up the right side of the field, starting with the BPD. On this right side, the diamond (BPD, DLP, IWB-s and CM-a) is a bit more expansive than the left, with the deeper players being more willing to play risky, progressive passes, and the forward players being free to take up more advanced positions. One thing to note here is that the role of the BPD is not to retain possession, but to progress play. The rest of the right side is, in part, set up to facilitate this progression.

In order to keep this post at a readable length, I think I will stop there. I hope it has been interesting so far, and hopefully given at least one reader a new idea they want to try. In the future, I intend to cover several more topics relating to how Thomas Norton sets up his Ceriswood-team to play. At the very least, I have plans for the following topics, possibly with more to come:

-          How the IWB facilitates variation on the right in advanced positions

-          Combination play through the middle, and how the DLP controls it

-          How the left side functions in attack, and particularly how the Mez unlocks established defences

I would love to try it. Do you have a link to download the tactic?

Fatkidscantjump · September 19, 2021

Very interesting read, i'll be waiting for more !

Flokerface · September 19, 2021

Thanks for all the positive replies! =)

Quote

I would love to try it. Do you have a link to download the tactic?

I'll attach the current version. Note that I never designed this to be plug-and-play. The tactic does the things I want it to (even with a relatively low quality side compared to the opposition), but it is also the culmination of eight seasons of squad building and tactical development. I haven't tested it with any other clubs/squads, so can't guarantee it will work as well for you. There are also some inherent weaknesses to the set-up, which I will touch upon later.

Quote

Yeah, those ideas worked for me last year with FM20. I didn’t use my Pep replication on FM21 but I’m sure his tactic works if there is a good DLP…

This was my Manchester City replication for FM20

That's very interesting to see the similarities, but also subtle differences between your set-up and the one I've used. For example, yours is a little bit adventourous in roles and duties, and ups width specifically, whereas I get a similar effect from a higher mentality.

I also definitely agree that the DLP is a key to such a tactic (which should be unsurprising - consider the importance of players like Busquets, Xabi Alonso and Fernandinho), both for recycling possession, shielding defence, and providing line-breaking passes.

4-3-3 Blue Knights.fmf

Flokerface · September 20, 2021

Inverted wingbacks and switching play

The attentive reader may have noticed that the IWB played an important role in both the goals against Sporting that I showed last time, either by helping progress the ball, or by occupying space to drag defenders away from where the actual danger was. This is a key feature of how Ceriswood is currently set up to play. As the team progressed through the lower leagues, Thomas had to make do with more limited and traditional full backs and wingbacks. However, with sufficiently intelligent and skilful players, IWBs can combine with other roles to create intricate patterns that are hard to defend against.

An important point to make is that the game advices you to use players who are strong with the “opposite” foot as IWB. In many situations, this is clever, as a left-footed player cutting in from the right will have a better posture and angle for a killer ball or a shot. However, Thomas is generally not looking for his IWBs to do either of those things. Instead, he wants them to mainly to three things, with one added bonus: 1. Help progress the ball from the back, as previously discussed, 2. Maintain a deep midfield-position to recycle possession, and 3. Overlap and provide with in the final third when the IW goes inside, 4. ~~Bend it like Beckham~~ switch play from deep, wide positions. An IWB will naturally do all these things in the right setup, but I find that they do so more effectively when they are played on the same side as their strongest foot.

Last time, I did not have an example on hand of how playing out of the back can be used to bypass the press before I dig deeper into how the IWB plays in advanced positions, I want to revisit that situation.

Here we see the first goal in a recent hard-fought and late 3-1 comeback against Middlesbrough. A fair note to make is that Boro is playing into my hands here, by pressing high with a bottom-heavy formation (usually I’d call it a 3-4-1-2, but their wingbacks are so deep it really is a 5-2-1-2).

From the goalkick, we see a variant of the pattern I described in the original post. The ball is moved to right-sided diamond which stays close together and pulls the Boro midfield in.

Space opens for a line-breaking pass to the dropping F9. The opposing midfield is now desperate to get back in defence, and the ball is switched to the left while they are still unbalanced.

Mez puts IW through (we will be talking more about that particular combination in a later post!) and the comeback is on!

Here we very clearly see the advantage of the relatively compact diamonds I have set up. My IWB and DLP can combine to bypass the initial press, and progress the ball to the triangle of attackers in front of them, who are now overloading the right channel. The Boro defence moves across, and the midfield scrambles back, and try to force us into a less dangerous wide position. Exactly like we want them to, as this pretty much opens the entire centre and left of the pitch for us! Having used an overload to pull in the disorganised Boro-players, we switch play and it’s a fairly easy goal from there.

The build-up and especially switch off play is enabled by using right-footed players as IWB and IW down the right. For a right-footer like Popovic (IWB), both the short pass to Cabrera (DLP) and the longer ball to James (F9) are natural. Later on, José Felipe (IW) can use his stronger right foot to quickly switch play, rather than spending a beat to cut in on his left before the pass to Palavecino (mez).

Another reason why I want my IWBs to play on their “strong” side is that they can then more effectively overlap. IWBs will generally look to cut inside and join midfield, which I do want them to, but will also make overlapping runs. This is especially the case if the wide areas are vacated, usually by inside forward or inverted wingers moving inside. And though I instruct my IWs to stay wider, to stretch the opposition during build-up, I also want them to come inside, make combinations on the edge of the box and attack the goal. This leaves space the IWBs can overlap into, and thus give opposing fullbacks a dilemma: Pick up the overlapping IWB, follow the IW inside, or perhaps the mez/CM-A moving into the channel?

There are several things I do to encourage this sort of play. Firstly, having the IWs vacate the space to begin with. Secondly, playing the IWBs on their “strong” side to make them both more comfortable, but also more effective on the outside. And thirdly, a positive mentality and extra creative freedom from be more expressive is meant to nudge them into making more runs. This is especially helpful for the left IWB, on defence, who has ha cautious mentality (even on positive team mentality) and the hold position instruction. Despite this, we still get the left IWB doing things like this:

Here our left IWB, Adams, wins the ball in our own half and passes to Walter, our IW. As Walter takes a few steps inside, Adams casually moves up along the left touchline, with no one picking him up. Two quick short passes, and then Cabrera (DLP) finds Adams with a through ball. The IWB has the left side pretty much to himself, and can carry it forward until James (F9) is free to receive a square ball (note how this is a simple pass with the left foot!) in the hole. Meanwhile, Walter has moved up in the central forward position to receive the killer pass, but the goal is correctly disallowed for offside.

However, it is generally the right IWB who is the more proactive one, looking to get involved in the final third. We have already seen the right IWB’s involvement in build up play, so let us see how the IWB can make very different involvements leading to goals:

Both goals are from a 3-2 win over Sunderland last season, when we were in the Championship. For the first goal, Popovic (IWB) is moving up along the right touchline with the ball. José Felipe (IW) had moved into the channel earlier, pulling a player to open the space. So there’s no one really picking up Popovic, especially as the opposing LB is retreating and moving in more narrowly, no doubt worried about José Felipe making a run from deep through the channel. Eventually, as an opposing midfielder is rushing back to close Popovic down, he makes the switch of play, finding Palavecino in the hole, with plenty of space and time. One killer pass later, Jack Phillips (F9) has scored.

A minor point here is that IWBs have the PI cross less often hard-coded. I really don’t want my players running to the goalline to lump a cross in. Square balls and cut-backs from players attacking the box through the channels are super (hence low crosses and work ball into box. I will maybe include some examples of this in a later post), but the team is really not equipped to take advantage of crosses from wide. Non-inverted wingbacks and attacking fullbacks are more prone to that sort of undesirable behaviour, even if they do a good job stretching defences in the final third.

However, the real reason for using an IWB over other roles is evident in the second goal showcased from the Sunderland-match. Here the ball starts out on the left and nothing dangerous is happening, with the opposing defence in full control. However, Popovic is positioned centrally, as a double pivot together with DLP Tosic. This enables a quick switch of play along the ground from Adams to Tosic to Popovic.

There are two advantages to having a double pivot in this situation. First, shorter passes along the ground are more difficult to intercept for outrushing defenders. Second, Tosic is in a better position to receive the first ball, while Popovic is in a better position to initiate the next attacking thrust, than Tosic would have been as a lone pivot. We see this as Popovic only need to play a simple forward pass. Mols (CM-A) and Alessi (right IW) then perform a quick one-two before putting Phillips through on goal. The striker scores to complete his hattrick and give us a late, but well-deserved win!

IWB is, I think, a really interesting and potent role. It is also a role I have struggled a fair bit to get the best out of. However, I think it is fair to say the IWB is a key component to how Thomas Norton sets up his Ceriswood side, and I hope the examples I have shown in this post have given some illustration of why they work.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Flokerface

Johnny Ace · September 21, 2021

Brilliant opening thread @Flokerface

Dj-Voodoo · September 22, 2021

Hi OP, great thread. A bit wordy but I appreciate the effort, good job!

I don't typically use plug and play tactics but you captured the spirit of what I wanted to accomplish (possession-heavy, dominate opponents tactic) seemingly better than I did. I flipped it so the IWa is on the right hand side but otherwise haven't tinkered yet.

One of my targets in my current FM21 save has been to find a way to to imitate peak-Flick Bayern but without the excessive goals against (not playing a bad CB, Alaba, as CB will help) -- to my surprise I found my team with this tactic actually playing in a similar enough way!

There are multiple phases to the attack:

1) We play deep and are comfortable doing so because of all the open passing options and once the ball carrier approaches the half-way line he (an IWB usually) thumps it to a forward player making a run on goal against a stretched wide defense. If a goal, good. If not,

2) The ball is spilled back and won back by our team, this time the attack is set up against the opponent's goal. The two IWs are between the opponent's FB and CB and the F9 is occupying the two CBs and DM by himself, one of the Mez or CMa then are the key to breaking this chess game. A clever run or one-two will have an opponent defender overcommit and then it is through on goal. If goal, good. If not,

3) The two IWBs push up to the same strata as the DLPs and offer yet another recycling option. Things get a bit static at this point but it's so pushed-up against the opponent that cracks appear and with good composure and skilled players, once my team get more familiar they will exploit these opportunities more and more. However, It is at this point that the differences from Hansi Flick's Bayern appear.

Hansi's Bayern would have the ball-side WB push up even more while the Ws drift wide (or vice-versa, they were dynamic), concurrently the weak-side W would cut across the defense while Mueller would take that position. It was intricate and complicated and impossible to replicate IRL or in FM21 without having a world-class, well-drilled team like Bayern. The issue was that it left a massive gap against: at the most there are three and only rarely four players who can defend the space between the counter-attacking opponent and Bayern's goal.

Your tactic doesn't have that intricate and dynamic mobility but it does keep the IWd closer to the defensive line and has a dedicated DLPd (as opposed to IRL where Kimmich would swap with Goretzka and push up). These two innovations do detract from the variability of the movement but they sure as hell give me more comfort against counters.

The only change I am considering now is whether to play on Attack mentality or Positive mentality + Wider for that aforementioned 2nd phase.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Dj-Voodoo

Rashidi · September 22, 2021

A well thought out post. Personally for me these kind of systems live and die by who you choose as an IWB. These to me are the most important roles in the system. :thup:

Flokerface · September 22, 2021

Thanks again for the kind comments!

3 hours ago, Dj-Voodoo said:

Hi OP, great thread. A bit wordy but I appreciate the effort, good job!

Haha, it's only going to get worse once I get around to discussing what you have labelled the second and third phases of attack =)

It would be interesting to hear your experiences with trying an attacking mentality or positive + wider.

1 hour ago, Rashidi said:

A well thought out post. Personally for me these kind of systems live and die by who you choose as an IWB. These to me are the most important roles in the system.

Yes, I definitely agree that finding the right IWBs are essential!

sejo · September 22, 2021

What kind of IWB do you use?

Flokerface · September 24, 2021

On 22/09/2021 at 15:24, sejo said:

What kind of IWB do you use?

Do you mean their duty or the kind of players? The IWB on the left is a defend duty, the one on the right is a support duty. In terms of players, ideally they are press resistant, hard-working, capable of progressing the ball and able defenders. Which is asking a lot! Basically, if you find a box-to-box midfielder who is a bit better than usual on the defensive side, but can't shoot, he's your guy. I also prefer to play them on their "strong" side. That is, a right-footed player as right IWB, which is the opposite of what the game tells you.

Flokerface · September 24, 2021

Attacking the left channel

Until now my focus has primarily been on the right side. However, it is the left that tends to produce most goals and assists, with the Mez being my main assister, while the left IW, with an attack duty, tends to be the main goal threat (although, our manager Thomas prefers having the goals spread out, and this tactic is no different – the F9, both IWs and the CM-A are all expected to reach double digits from open play). The emphasis on the left side in the final third is in part a function of the players. Augustín Palavecino (Mez) and Tim Walter (IW) are the team’s two star men, and were so by a wide margin during our season in the Championship. However, as we will see, their effectiveness is not merely a matter of their personal skill, but a tactical setup built to create patterns that harness it.

First though, we need a tiny bit of theory as a point of departure to understand where the patterns are coming from, how they may be a little bit different from the “typical” patterns, and how the setup of roles and instructions help accomplish that.

Illustrated above is an attacking M-W-shape. A lot of modern sides (and indeed some very old ones), particularly those with a more possession-oriented playstyle, tend towards a shape similar to this. That is, there are five relatively deeper players who offer defensive cover and recycle the ball, and five attacking players engaging the opposing defensive line. There are some notable advantages to this. With five players in attacking areas, there can be one player in each horizontal space (wide left, left channel/half-space, centrally, right channel, wide right). A typical four-man defence is then outnumbered, and the midfield is forced deeper. Meanwhile, the covering five (whether an M, that is a 3-2, or a W, a 2-3) can also cover the horizontal spaces, thus there always being one deeper player available to receive the ball, or to halt a turnover. Typically, there is also some rotational movement between the front five, especially inside the triangles they naturally create, while the deeper five is more structured.

The particular shape shown above has become increasingly common in recent years. Pep’s Man City tend to look like this in the attack phase, though with a lot of rotational movement. Mancini’s Italy also tends to attack like this, with the left CB going wide to cover for a very adventurous LWB, which in turn allow the left IF to cut inside. Both usually have a 4-3-3 as their starting point (though increasingly Man City has started lining up in sort of a 4-4-2). The re-emergence of 3-5-2 and 3-4-3 variants is also notable here, as they very easily become 3-2-5s in attack.

The base idea, of a deeper, more structured five, and a more advanced, fluid five, are retained by my Ceriswood side. However, the actual shape and horizontal spaces covered are a bit different in the attacking phase.

The observant reader will immediately notice two things: I attack as a W-W (rather than M-W or W-M, which are both more common in real life), and do so more narrowly than the theoretical example. As a result, the wide areas are barely occupied, if at all. In part, this is down to wrangling with the Match Engine. I think the ME, overall, is an excellent achievement for simulating football and allowing various tactics to shine, but it is difficult to reliably transition into a back three in attack the way some modern sides do, and it is difficult to get rotational attacking movement while also retaining width. Actually, rotational movements are hard to create full stop. However, rather than fighting these limitations, I have tried to set the team up to create patterns that both makes sense on paper, and can also be implemented in game.

As you can see from the illustrations, my left side is narrower than the idealised M-W. Rather than two players in each horizontal space, the wide left is vacant, while the left channel has three to four players in it. This means we are already starting to see something akin to an overload of the channel, before adding any movements. It should also be little surprise that building from the back down the right (drawing the opponent across), can create real danger down the left channel, as was one of the things illustrated last time.

However, the issue becomes to create danger against an established defence. With three players in the same vertical space, and no one truly keeping the width, it seems very simple to defend against my left side: Simply have the right back tuck in, perhaps supported by a deep midfielder, and close the channel! We can’t have any of that, so we need some sort of movement to unsettle the right back.

Variant 1

The first two variants are deceptively simple, but really effective. The ball starts relatively deep in the opponent’s half, either with the DLP or the IWB. Their deep position usually means they draw out the midfield (especially in a flat formation, such as a 4-4-2) a little bit. Meanwhile, the Mez moves into the channel between the lines. This is a movement and positioning that is very typical for the Mezzala on support. On an attack duty, the mezzala has a very high mentality and will occupy a more advanced position and threaten the box. On support, however, the mezzala will try to find space between the lines, and look to thread killer balls, which is exactly what we are looking for here.

Meanwhile, some very important movement is happening up front. The F9 and CM on attack duty are both in advanced, central positions and occupy an opposing CB each. This makes it much harder for the defence to shift horizontally as they risk leaving a gap for the CM-A. At the same time, the left IW, on an attacking duty, is looking to get into the box from a wide position (stay wider personal instruction). An inverted winger is generally a bit more of a midfielder than an attacker (as opposed to an inside forward), and thus look to get involved deeper. However, on an attack duty, and especially when played in the attacking midfield strata, the IW is happy to make direct runs into the box.

At this point, the DLP or IWB makes the line-breaking pass to find the Mez in space. This leaves the opposing full back with a difficult decision: Follow the IW’s run, or press the Mez. If the Mez is left alone, he will have time to carefully thread a pass before the midfielders get back in position. If the IW is left alone, well, he’s alone! As it turns out, the 2v1 this simple combination creates often means it does not matter what the full back does, as we will create an excellent chance either way.

Variant 2

The same type of pattern can also be initiated through a switch of play from the right to the left.

Here the ball starts with either the right IWB or the right IW. Our right IWB is on a support duty, and should have a strong right foot, as previously discussed. This means he will cut inside and roam through midfield, and then have a good angle for a raking ball towards the left channel. Likewise, the right IW is on support duty, which also means he is looking to cut inside into an advanced midfield position, although from a wider (stay wider personal instruction) rather than deeper position. These movements can serve to draw the opposing midfield to towards our right side, while the F9 and CM look to occupy the central defence, which again opens space for the Mez between the lines and the 2v1 is on!

As we won the Championship on our first try, a lot of our goals came through permutations of these two variants. A couple of examples:

The goal against Sheffield is, I think, especially notable. I was playing a severely weakened side, with 18-year-old John Beya as Mez and 19-year-old Giorgios Vapokarakis as left IW. Yet, even without our star men we still won 2-1 after scoring through our typical combinations. However, sometimes the opposing defence is simply too compact, and the IW can’t be found with a through ball.

Variant 3

It is tempting to suggest that the Premier League clubs had taken notice of how we consistently set up 2v1s against Championship fullbacks, because it has been a bit more difficult to set it up in the Premier League. Part of it is of course that the opponents are much better (both absolutely and relatively), so are defending better against all of our combinations. However, so far I have found Premier League defences to often be that bit more compact and effective at covering the IW’s movement. That is fine, though, because we have another deceptively simple variant for such situations.

With the opposing fullback tucked in, and a midfielder dropping deep, the IW’s initial run is well covered, and a permutation of the first two variants is not on. However, given such positioning from the opponent’s RB and RCM/DM, their wide player on the right suddenly has a lot of ground to cover. This means there will be a lot of space open wide, and even in the channel. Remember that the Mez on support will stay a bit deeper, so he can run into that area, while still having the instructions to move into channels and run wide with the ball. In other words, he will be happy to pick the ball up in the half-space and then advance into wide spaces, switching places with the IW, horizontally speaking.

Moving the ball into a deep position on the left, which is where the IWB on defend is sitting, holding position, can draw out the opposing wide man, which opens that exact space for the Mez. Meanwhile, we have four players looking to get into the box: Both IWs (remember, they are played in the attacking midfield strata, so even the right-sided one on support they will attack the box), the F9 and the CM-A. Even with such pressure on the box, the IWB will usually prefer the ball to the Mez rather than punting it forward, since we work ball into the box. This can be very awkward to defend against, as the right-sided central midfielder may not come across to cover the Mez in time, whereas the fullback has a 2v1 dilemma in terms of following the IW or picking up the Mez. As such, we may be able to hammer in a low cross from inside the area (low crosses) while having equal numbers with the defenders.

However, against some teams either of these combinations are hard to pull off because they have a central midfielder on the Mez, and maybe a defensive midfielder covering too, while a wide or attacking midfielder is responsible for the IWB. Thus, the channel is closed.

Variant 4

Our fourth variant deals with this exact problem, and illustrates the importance of dummy runs and second ball runs when unlocking tight defences. A dummy run is a run meant to pull opposing defenders out of position, without expecting to receive the ball. A second ball run (I’m not sure what else to call it in English) is a run that is not intended to be targeted for the next pass, but the pass after that.

In order to unlock the left channel, the left IW makes a dummy run inside in order to drag the fullback with him, narrowing the defensive line. Attacking IWs are quite happy to make these sort of runs. Meanwhile, the IWB on defend usually prefers to stay hold a deep position, but when neither the IW or the Mez take up a wide position, the IWB is happy to run down the touchline and become a target for the DLP. This movement can be hard to defend against. The wide midfielder can be an effective presser of the IWB, but has a tendency to lose his man in the final third (I don’t know, but I suspect this may be as much a quirk of the ME as lacking defensive stats). This, in turn, draws attention from the central midfielder covering the Mez, or gives the fullback his, by now, usual dilemma. All of this serves to open up space in the previously closed left channel.

The IWB crosses less often, which combined with work into box and shorter passing means he will look to combine with a player in close proximity rather than launching the ball into the box. This is why the second ball run is imperative. Knowing the IWB running on the outside is the best option for a progressive pass from the DLP, we need a second player making a run for the IWB to pass to. Here, once again, the Mez is key. Being on a support duty, he starts deeper, but he still has the instruction to get further forward in addition to the beforementioned run into channels. As such, he will be inclined to make a forward run into the channel, anticipating the square ball or cutback (depending on timing) from the IWB.

With different players (possibly with slightly different roles, to arrive earlier in the box) we could eschew such complicated movements and simply have a WB who lofts a cross in when free down the flank. However, we have built around team around nimble, technical attackers who are good in close spaces and with the ball on the ground, rather than fighting with tough central defenders for crosses. As such, we want deliver low crosses after working the ball into the box, because that creates situations that are not only awkward to defend against, but are particularly favourable to our players!

Finally, there are often situations where it's not quite straightforward to make one of the variants happen. Since we have a very stable platform with five players generally staying deep, we can afford to give our players more creative freedom (be more expressive) and try to get the breakthrough with more roaming movement, dribbling, tricks and quick combinations. Creative freedom combined with work ball into box and roles that work closely together, as I’m sure you have noticed the Mez and IW do, will encourage players to play one-twos like these to unlock even the most stubborn defenses:

You can't really work on specific patterns of play in FM, as you can on the real-life training field. However, I hope I am managing to illustrate how I try to use the roles, duties, team instructions and personal instructions available in the tactic creator to increase the likelihood of certain patterns.

Tibalg · September 27, 2021

Very interesting work ! I like the way your explaining your thinking, it is very fluid and makes sense !

I tested a very similar tactic (with almost the same instruction, but less agressive defensively speaking), but I feel sometimes that my team is lacking penetration and make a lot of central passes without going into the surface.

As I saw in your last post, work ball into box is very important for avoiding a "stupid" loss of the ball and is managing the Positive mentality and higher risk involved, and it is complicated to remove it. How do you react when you see that you ares sterile in term of chance created ? Using a DLF-a instead of a F9 to increase the striker mentality ? Reduce mentality but adjusting passes and tempo ?

I also feel that this tactic is sometimes very fragile defensively speaking (especially on the wing because both IWB are pretty narrow and we are outnumbered on the wing), and the DLP-d is not covering enought the back 4. Again better team, do you change the role to a more covering one, like a DM-d or DM-s with more risky passes ?

I guess this is the final version of your tactic. When Ceriswood started his journey, he had to adjust to the fellow players he already had. How did you progress into the tactical evolution ?

Flokerface · September 28, 2021

21 hours ago, Tibalg said:

Very interesting work !

Thank you! You raise some very interesting questions as well.

I have not found not found sterile possession to be a particular issue with this tactic. I think an important lesson (certainly for me, at least!) is that to make a possession tactic work offensively, the focus should paradoxally not be primarily about retaining possession. Rather, the focus should be on how to progress the ball effectively, and when, where and why to take risks. As such, we have the setup to score goals, even in the PL. We were arguably the worst team in the PL in our first season (passing and first touch were just over average, while just about every other stat was towards the very bottom), but still managed about 1,5 goals a game.

If I were noticing an issue with sterile possession, the way I adapted would depend on what I was seeing unfolding in the match. My likeliest course of action would be subbing one of my attacking players, to see if some fresh legs and a slightly different type of player would open the match up. If one of the IWs is having a poor game, that could blunt the attack both through stupid turnovers (from poor dribbles or misplaced passes) or through a lack of movement. It is better then to try a different player, than messing with the structure of the team. If the issue was not with (a) particular player(s), I would consider upping the tempo, mentality, or doing something with the focus of attack, depending on what I saw in the match. I would generally not touch roles, unless there was something very striking going on, and I had a clear idea of how a role might solve that, because even small adjustments to roles can fundamentally change the team's structure.

As for being defensively fragile... yes and no. Direct, high-tempo attacking is very strong in FM21 (some would argue a little bit too strong), and a rapid strike down the wing can certainly leave the IWBs out of position. This is moreso an issue down the right, where both the IWB and the CM will usually be a bit more advanced. We struggled a lot with that the first season in PL, though Championship-level full backs are always going to struggle when up against the likes of Mbappe. In our season in the Championship, when we had defenders closer in skill to the typical attacker, we did not particularly struggle, however. This is something I will monitor as the quality of our defence is upgraded. However, I would not change the DLP to deal with this. The DLP is the hub of the team, and I want that player to be a ball magnet. On defence duty, he will stay deep in just the position I want, covering the centre. I much prefer using opposition/team/player instructions to deal with specific threats in a particular match, than touching roles and thus the team's structure.

In terms of progressing into the current tactic, there was a slow evolution going from the Wessex league until League One, and then a revolution as I experimented in a few late-season dead rubbers and started with the current setup in the Championship. If there is interest for it, I can try to make a more comprehensive write-up (though I don't have much in terms of replays and screenshots laying around to illustrate). However, the short of it is that in the lower leagues, physical attributes are king. The basic principle was to build a team just about capable of pinging it around the back enough to drag the opponents in, and then make a progressive pass to some lightning fast wingers, who would then just literally run through the defence.

Tibalg · September 29, 2021

Il y a 22 heures, Flokerface a dit :

Thank you! You raise some very interesting questions as well.

I have not found not found sterile possession to be a particular issue with this tactic. I think an important lesson (certainly for me, at least!) is that to make a possession tactic work offensively, the focus should paradoxally not be primarily about retaining possession. Rather, the focus should be on how to progress the ball effectively, and when, where and why to take risks. As such, we have the setup to score goals, even in the PL. We were arguably the worst team in the PL in our first season (passing and first touch were just over average, while just about every other stat was towards the very bottom), but still managed about 1,5 goals a game.

Do you think, because you are an underdog, that the Positive mentality is working well ? And, at the opposite, if you are the top team of the league, why don't play a more conservative mentality ? Of course you will increase the DL, LOE and tempo to make something "similar" to your idea, but without all the "risk" that are happening with a higher mentality.

Il y a 22 heures, Flokerface a dit :

If I were noticing an issue with sterile possession, the way I adapted would depend on what I was seeing unfolding in the match. My likeliest course of action would be subbing one of my attacking players, to see if some fresh legs and a slightly different type of player would open the match up. If one of the IWs is having a poor game, that could blunt the attack both through stupid turnovers (from poor dribbles or misplaced passes) or through a lack of movement. It is better then to try a different player, than messing with the structure of the team. If the issue was not with (a) particular player(s), I would consider upping the tempo, mentality, or doing something with the focus of attack, depending on what I saw in the match. I would generally not touch roles, unless there was something very striking going on, and I had a clear idea of how a role might solve that, because even small adjustments to roles can fundamentally change the team's structure.

That makes totally sense ! A new pair of legs, with different attributes can be good, and of course tempo is another one. I did not use Focus play that much but indeed it could open some doors through defenses.

Il y a 22 heures, Flokerface a dit :

In terms of progressing into the current tactic, there was a slow evolution going from the Wessex league until League One, and then a revolution as I experimented in a few late-season dead rubbers and started with the current setup in the Championship. If there is interest for it, I can try to make a more comprehensive write-up (though I don't have much in terms of replays and screenshots laying around to illustrate). However, the short of it is that in the lower leagues, physical attributes are king. The basic principle was to build a team just about capable of pinging it around the back enough to drag the opponents in, and then make a progressive pass to some lightning fast wingers, who would then just literally run through the defence.

I would love to read something like this. We already have a lot of "plug-and-play" stories in the forum, but seeing how you improve your tactic game after game is always a nice read !

And in lower league, it must had been fun to implement a possession based tactic with all of these physical player :brock:

AidanH96 · September 30, 2021

Really high-quality thread! You’ve got me inspired to try one final save before fm22. Which traits would you say are essential/nice to have for each role? Like would you use the hugs line trait for the inverted wing-backs to encourage them to overlap? Also, what instructions do you have for your false nine? I’ve had difficulty determining the effectiveness of moves into channels, roams from position, both, or just leaving them blank for him.

Flokerface · October 4, 2021

On 30/09/2021 at 12:20, AidanH96 said:

Really high-quality thread! You’ve got me inspired to try one final save before fm22. Which traits would you say are essential/nice to have for each role? Like would you use the hugs line trait for the inverted wing-backs to encourage them to overlap? Also, what instructions do you have for your false nine? I’ve had difficulty determining the effectiveness of moves into channels, roams from position, both, or just leaving them blank for him

Essential traits? As in attributes or PPMs? For PPMs, none. I prefer making tactics where as long as a player is good enough, he will work, rather than needing this or that specific trait. It's easier to, say, find a defensive midfielder with excellent passing, first touch and composure and tell him to hold position, than finding one who has those stats, but also has stays deep at all times.

That said, traits that accentuate the desired behaviours are always welcome. Plays one-twos is really good on the players involved in the attacking phase. Killer balls and switches play on the midfielders, dictates tempo on the DLP and so on. I suspect switches play would be quite good on the right IWB too (ref the pattern I showed earlier with build-up on the right and then a switch to the mez in the left channel), although I haven't had the chance to test it.

Basically, think common sense and don't over do it: What prefered moves will increase the chance the players move dynamically, make neat passing triangles and then pierce the defence with a through ball?

At the same time, I am a bit wary of getting too many PPMs, and particularly ones that impact on movement. I don't want hugs line for my IWBs. I want them to occasionally make overlaps, when there is space. However, I generally want them to make up a stable midfield three together with the DLP. That way, I should always have an option for recycling the ball and changing the angle of attack, allowing more risk-taking for the front five.

As for which attributes, well, I want the players to be press-resistance, and capable of a good passing game. That means good passing, first touch, technique, anticipation, composure, decisions and off the ball, agility and balance. I also want them to press high, which means good work rate, stamina, and at least adequate bravery, tackling and aggression (though the latter need not be particularly high). I want them to actually do what the tactic says, which means high team work. Then you have dribbling, vision and flair for creative players, positioning and concentration for defensive players (IWBs in particular, because they are prone to being caught out). I like fast players and... well, you see the list getting long? What I really look for is passing, first touch, composure and team work. Without those, there's no point in telling your players to play neat passing triangles under pressure, because either they can't, or they won't. Those four stats were the only one's I was around or above average on both in my one season in the Championship and now in the Premier League (in fact, I was bottom or close to bottom in almost everything else when in my first PL-season). And that was, incredibly, just about enough.

I don't have the game in front of my now, so I am not 100 % on the F9 instructions. I do not have move into channels, because I have the Mez, CM-A and the IWs doing that. I want the F9 to be involved in central build-up play, and to make things difficult for the CDs, rather than overcrowding the channels - I am already doing that just fine! As for roaming, I think I ended up leaving it off after some experimentation, though I will have to check to be sure. With be more expressive, there will be some roaming anyway, but I mainly want the Mez and CM-A to be the "free roles", while the F9 along with the IWs have more defined areas of responsibility (my experience is that it works better with some players roaming, some holding position, and some being inbetween to ensure there is a structure to your play, since there's no way in game to tell the players "there should always be an attacker in this zone, but it doesn't matter who").

On 29/09/2021 at 08:54, Tibalg said:

I would love to read something like this. We already have a lot of "plug-and-play" stories in the forum, but seeing how you improve your tactic game after game is always a nice read !

And in lower league, it must had been fun to implement a possession based tactic with all of these physical player

Fair point! =)

I will try writing it up at some point, although it will probably be a little while before I have the time.

jackal_949 · October 20, 2021

Reading this has been very entertaining and informative for me. I'm waiting for the continuation. Thanks.

fraudiola · October 25, 2021

got any player instructions on them?

Flokerface · October 31, 2021

On 20/10/2021 at 17:15, jackal_949 said:

Reading this has been very entertaining and informative for me. I'm waiting for the continuation. Thanks.

Thank you! Sorry for the late reply and (still) long wait for the continuation. I do plan to continue, but real-life obligations mean FM has been on hold the last month.

On 25/10/2021 at 20:59, fraudiola said:

got any player instructions on them?

Yes!

The CM-A has roam from position and move into channels, to better enable overloads in the right-side channel, as well as simply add some more dynamic movement.

Both IWs have stay wider, to stretch the field of play horisontally during build-up in particular. Seeing as they are played in the AM strata, they will still come narrow in the final third - this is in part my design, as especially the IW-A is an important goal-threat, but also a weakness to the tactic as even with the stay wider instruction we will sometimes get too narrow against established defences.

(sic) · October 31, 2021

On 18/09/2021 at 20:51, Flokerface said:

This thread isn’t going to be an exercise in Pep tactic recreation, however.

Amazing thread.

I've wanted to start a thread about this, then I've seen your thread. The principles are pretty much the same, the formation and roles are almost identical.

First off I've used a tactic where I had an IWB-A acting as Mez-S / CM-A in your tactic. It kinda worked but also kinda didn't as I wanted it to.

One question, is there are reason for not using underlaps?

Here are some videos and screenshots showing how it's working for my team.

Flokerface · October 31, 2021

6 hours ago, (sic) said:

One question, is there are reason for not using underlaps?

I don't really need them in order to get the movement I want. The Mez and CM-A will naturally make forward runs to be available, which means I usually have progressive options in the channels or centre when the ball is wide.

I don't want to push the IWBs inside with their movement, but rather let them choose if it is more opportune to make the over- or underlap. In established attacks, they will form a platform in the middle with the DLP. From there there is also much more often space for them on the overlap rather than underlap, so I don't want to dissuade that movement.

Finally, the underlap/overlap instructions have particular impacts on player mentalities, which I don't want.

(sic) · October 31, 2021

15 minutes ago, Flokerface said:

I don't really need them in order to get the movement I want. The Mez and CM-A will naturally make forward runs to be available, which means I usually have progressive options in the channels or centre when the ball is wide.

I don't want to push the IWBs inside with their movement, but rather let them choose if it is more opportune to make the over- or underlap. In established attacks, they will form a platform in the middle with the DLP. From there there is also much more often space for them on the overlap rather than underlap, so I don't want to dissuade that movement.

Finally, the underlap/overlap instructions have particular impacts on player mentalities, which I don't want.

I've played with underlaps on both sides and without it. Both of my IWBs are on Defend, they form a "platform" like you said in the middle. My main use for them is to help buildup and offer passing options when we are attacking, but they are also important defensively. Even on Defend they will sometimes overlap if there's space, which is nice.

I also want to train "plays one-twos" on my IWs and midfielders (except DLP of course), as I feel that kind of movement is sometimes lacking even when there's space to run into.

I'm also trying a version where I have a Regista instead of DLP, from the first game it seemed to work nicely.

What I do often find is that IWs are either really wide, while the midfielders are very narrow or that everyone is narrow and there's a lack of width.

Flokerface · November 1, 2021

13 hours ago, (sic) said:

What I do often find is that IWs are either really wide, while the midfielders are very narrow or that everyone is narrow and there's a lack of width.

Yes! In my experience, this is partly an issue with the ME, but also something that is true to a degree in the real world: Once attacking players have gone narrow in the final third, they rarely take up wide positions again, which means formations like 4-3-3 can struggle for width against established defences unless using wingbacks or attacking fullbacks. This is a big reason why I am very concerned with creating patterns and opening passing lanes where one channel is overloaded and a switch to the other channel is opened while the defence is still occupied (as already described).

13 hours ago, (sic) said:

I also want to train "plays one-twos" on my IWs and midfielders (except DLP of course)

Agreed. Having it on the IW-A and Mez-S is particularly useful in my tactic, as these are often both close enough and have space to exchange positions and make quick combinations.

Tsuru · May 9, 2022

Hi @Flokerface. This is a very interesting topic and development, this was exactly what I was looking for. And as I am still on FM 21, the ideas here suit me very well. Thank you!

Aoyao · June 7, 2022

This is a very interesting topic and development

Flokerface · July 25, 2022

Thank you @Tsuru and @Aoyao!

Real life happened, so I did not continue this thread as I planned in a timely fashion. However, it's the summer holiday and the weather is awful where I live, so now I have no excuses =)

Unfortunately, I have moved on from the save where I used this tactic. Fortunately, I had started sketching a post last year that I have now completed! So here goes:

Vertical movements to disrupt compact defenses

A challenge with the tactical set-up I have presented in this thread is that play tends to end up fairly narrow against established defences. With both the wingbacks and wingers inverting, all my players will generally be looking at getting into the channels or the central zone in the attacking phase. The IWs are particularly keen on cutting inside since they are played in the attacking midfield strata (this is a good example of the compromises that must be made dealing with the match engine: Playing them deeper gives better width and defensive positioning, playing them further forward gives a better shape in transitions and pressing high, as well as better presence in the box, and I have found no combination of instructions that get the best of both).

Typically, you want someone to stretch the opposing defensive line, even when looking to make combination play through the middle. If you have a winger or wingback hugging the line, the opposition is coaxed into shifting a player wider to cover him (or otherwise leave him completely open), which in turn opens space in the channels or centrally. During transitions our IWs fill this role, especially with their stay wider instruction, but in an established attack they will move into the channels. Likewise, as previously shown the IWBs may overlap, but we want at least one of them to stay deep with the DLP to recycle possession and switch play. This all means that we need some alternate way of opening space when attacking through the middle.

The answer is on the face of it deceptively simple: If we can’t stretch the opponent horizontally, we will just stretch them vertically!

Let’s look at an example. This is from a match against Arsenal during our second season in the PL that we lost 3-2. Arsenal set up to defend in a narrow mid-block and then destroy us on the counter with their two world class strikers. However, despite their ideal set-up and superior players, we did play some neat football at times. Here is one attack that leads to a dangerous (albeit missed) chance.

We gain possession of the ball in midfield, but our first attempt to build an attack fails miserably. The ball is cleared back out, and we try again. This time we make some neat combinations down the left channel, which eventually leads to a through ball and a decent shot. Let’s look at those combinations pass-by-pass, move-by-move and see how Arsenal’s compact shape is compromised.

The ball is with our left IWB (number 3). He is joined by three other players in the left channel, namely our left CB (5), our Mez (10) and our left IW (18). The DLP (6) is also in close support. Notably, all the players in the channel are distributed vertically, whereas the DLP in support is in line with the IWB. Note also that our right sides players have a huge amount of space on the right, but both are staying narrowly on top of each other. This is an occasional weakness to the set-up, and we can see that though the space for a switch of play is there and the DLP is well-positioned to make the switch, the right side is not positioned to receive. So, we have to look for opportunities where we are. This is, in theory, easier to defend against, as Arsenal’s defence can stay narrow and compact.

The IW drops deep and receives the ball, pulling the Arsenal RB with him, and immediately plays a support pass to the DLP. The DLP is free in space, facing goal, and can thus easily pick a pass.

The DLP passes to the dropping F9 (16). This move draws the attention of both the RCB and the RCM who had been marking our Mez. The latter can now take a few steps back to receive a quick pass from the F9. These repeated dropping movements have broken up Arsenal’s defensive frame ever so slightly, and there’s now space between the RCB and RB that we can attack!

That it exactly what happens, as our Mez threads a pass into space for our IW to run onto, and then go for goal.

We see a clear pattern here. Our players drop deep to escape their marker, and quickly lay the ball off to someone facing the goal before they can be closed down. The receiver then has the body posture and vision to quickly make the next pass. Eventually, this repeated vertical movement creates holes in the opposition defence.

If you want to make a possession-based tactic that is also effective on the attack, you need some way to stretch defences and create holes for through balls. Generally, I like doing that by using the width of the field to stretch defences, but that is not a great option with the set-up I am demonstrating in this thread (maybe I will make an overly wordy post about that at some other time!). My alternative then is the sort of vertical movement shown here.

Although all players will at times drop into space as shown here (it starts with the IW doing so, though that player has no particular instructions to increase the likelihood of it happening), certain roles, instructions and combinations increase the likelihood of getting patterns like these.

The false nine is a typical role (but far from the only one!) for getting this sort of movement from your striker. In this example, our striker drops almost into a midfield position in order to receive the ball and pass it into the Mez.

In addition to having players that are hard-coded to drop deep, having certain players roam from position is really useful to get these combinations. Roaming doesn’t necessarily mean a player will just move about wherever. In particular, the instruction makes it more likely they will take up positions between the lines. We see this in the movement of the Mez, who doesn’t push up as aggressively as the CM(a) on the right of midfield, but instead looks for pockets of space either between the opposition defence and midfield, or even between the opposition midfield and forward line, which is where he actually receives the ball.

However, I don’t think it is useful to have all your players roam from position. Quite the contrary, you need some players to stay in position. The DLP plays a key role in the build-up, and stays in almost the exact same position throughout (which makes sense, for a player with the hold position instruction!). The reason this is important is that these more static players can work as “anchors” to the triangles you are looking for – that is, a player ready to receive the ball from the dropping player, with the posture and positioning to immediately play a forward ball to a third player.

The third player will then either repeat the cycle to continue pulling at the opposition defensive structure, or if space has already opened, be ready to make an aggressive run into space. As such, we need players that get further forward, either by being explicitly told to do so, by having high individual mentalities, or both. Thus, we need a combination of holding players, supporting players that drop between the lines, and attacking players ready to exploit any openings created, all organised into passing triangles.

This is exactly what we are looking at in the example, where throughout the attack a deep diamond is maintained, with the IWB and DLP (and CB) holding position. At the point of the diamond the Mez roams up and down, and is the natural centre of three triangles. At the top of the triangles, we have one supporting player and one attacking player.

I have not mentioned any team instructions in this post. This is entirely on purpose, as I want to stress that the most important factor in creating these patterns of movement and passing is the player roles and how they combine. My key take-away is thus this: To get the patterns of movement and passing you want, always start with and focus on the player’s roles and duties, and how they combine.

04texag · July 27, 2022

@Flokerface This is an excellent thread and write up. I like how you have explained progression through each flank and how the roles are working together. First a question, for your Mez on the left, do you prefer a right or left footed player here?

Second, do you really want the left IWB to be on Cautious? One thing you could try would be a fullback on automatic duty. Can be told to hold position, sit narrow, and still has a positive duty.

Flokerface · July 27, 2022

3 hours ago, 04texag said:

@Flokerface This is an excellent thread and write up. I like how you have explained progression through each flank and how the roles are working together. First a question, for your Mez on the left, do you prefer a right or left footed player here?

Second, do you really want the left IWB to be on Cautious? One thing you could try would be a fullback on automatic duty. Can be told to hold position, sit narrow, and still has a positive duty.

Palavecino has been our star man since I starten using the tactic. He's right-footed and has worked wonders.

However, if I was to speculate my guess is that everything else being equal, a left-footer might work better for what I am asking of the mez in this tactic. Being our main creator, and looking to make through balls from the left channel, and occasionally crossing, the player's positioning and posture would generally (but not always) be better for a left foot strike. As a rule of thumb I usually prefer deeper creators to play on their "strong" side.

My team has generally been the underdog, both in quality and reputation while I have used this tactic. As such, the stability of an IWB(d) has been preferable. It is a pertinent question though, and it is possible I would need to make adjustments if I were to continue playing the save. Our last season ended with 2nd in the PL, winning the CL and CWC. Teams are likely to start paying more respect, and the quality of my own players is much improved, so a more expansive approach could be more appropriate!

04texag · July 27, 2022

14 minutes ago, Flokerface said:

Palavecino has been our star man since I starten using the tactic. He's right-footed and has worked wonders.

However, if I was to speculate my guess is that everything else being equal, a left-footer might work better for what I am asking of the mez in this tactic. Being our main creator, and looking to make through balls from the left channel, and occasionally crossing, the player's positioning and posture would generally (but not always) be better for a left foot strike. As a rule of thumb I usually prefer deeper creators to play on their "strong" side.

My team has generally been the underdog, both in quality and reputation while I have used this tactic. As such, the stability of an IWB(d) has been preferable. It is a pertinent question though, and it is possible I would need to make adjustments if I were to continue playing the save. Our last season ended with 2nd in the PL, winning the CL and CWC. Teams are likely to start paying more respect, and the quality of my own players is much improved, so a more expansive approach could be more appropriate!

Awesome, and congrats on winning the CL with a big underdog team and all of the promotions, etc!

swede · July 28, 2022

This is really well put together, and even a tactically inept virtual manager like me can see the patterns here.

How does this deal with counter attacking teams, sitting back and easing off? Any particular things to take into consideration?

Flokerface · July 29, 2022

On 28/07/2022 at 23:15, swede said:

This is really well put together, and even a tactically inept virtual manager like me can see the patterns here.

How does this deal with counter attacking teams, sitting back and easing off? Any particular things to take into consideration?

Thanks!

The rather conservative IWB duties means there is a lot of cover in midfield, which helps prevent counter-attacks. That being said, there is space in wide areas that can be exploited on the break.

I generally don't sit back and ease off. If I need to run down the clock to protect a slim lead I might lower tempo a notch, and waste time.

swede · July 29, 2022

1 hour ago, Flokerface said:

Thanks!

The rather conservative IWB duties means there is a lot of cover in midfield, which helps prevent counter-attacks. That being said, there is space in wide areas that can be exploited on the break.

I generally don't sit back and ease off. If I need to run down the clock to protect a slim lead I might lower tempo a notch, and waste time.

Thanks for answering! Yeas, pretty much what I tend to do with Villa. Just 12 games in but sitting at 4th, with a lot of draws, but it's consistent points at least.

I tend to win possession mostly, but probably need to upgrade my IWBs next season. I like the style of play, and the movement created can lead to some really sublime attacks.

Zerul · June 20, 2023

Hi, sorry to necro this post I just wanted to share my experience with your tactic in FM23. Firstly, I would like to thank you because I really enjoy the idea and the work behind it. Now back to me, I manage San Giuliano City in Italy, third division and expected to fight for relegation (17th). I have just have two players as loans as subs because I have no money sadly. Considering that I don't have the players to play this way, its' going well: 3 wins (two of which against much better sides) and 2 draws.

These are the changes I have added:

- Added 'take more risks' for the Mezzala. If I remember right it was a default instruction for the previous FMS. It was necessary to grant the progressive passing system to work.

- Switched mentality to 'Balanced'. My players had the tendency to rush the play or to shoot from distance way too often (I might reconsider when I have better players).

- Instructed the keeper to slow things down to bait the press. He had the tendency to rush the play (he hit my defender in the back and basically assisted the opposition striker with the rebound smh).

What I have noticed:

- Very good movements

- Far too many shots off target (this might be my players' fault)

- Sometimes we concede too many chances, especially from distance (I am fine with these). Again, the shaky defence might be down to my players.

What I might consider trying in the future:

- Raise the width to max setting. I find the IWs too narrow for my likings.

- Raise the tempo to standard (if I see we pass the ball way too long)

What do you think @Flokerface? Have you play it with FM23?

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Patterns of progression and attack in a possession tactic

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