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[FM 21] ADO Den Haag 4-3-3 sudden crisis


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Good morning everyone, 

late in FM 21 I started a new score with ADO Den Haag. After successful runs with Royal Antwerp and Nantes/Genoa I felt it was time for something new. I chose The Hague because I recently spent a summer holiday here and because I don't want to deal with registration rules again. Also, I thought it would be a cool challenge to break through the Rotterdam/Amsterdam/Eindhoven bar.

As always, I had problems finding the right tactics at the beginning. First I used the Sampdoria tactic, but I clearly didn't have the players for a DLP/RPM/AP midfield. Around the halfway mark of the season, I thought I now had a good framework. Mainly because of my three key players and the convincing wins. At one point I was even top of the table with a 6-point lead. Suddenly, the crisis started with 7 games without a win. I then made changes to the tactics and still finished third with 3 wins from the last 6 games. However, I want to improve for the new season and hope to find help here. ADO_Results.thumb.png.fa9b4c46602dd350541e20d3bd32fd74.png

Now to my tactics:

ADO_Formation.png.7286a1ed28327700a17559f31b9b25fc.png

I use the SK on defend because I have had bad experiences with all other variants. I have also added "take fewer risks". 

Why do I use a wingback on defend? I thought it is a deeper option for the AP on attack, who can cross from deep, especially when looking for the IF on attack. In addition, I had opted for a left-footer on the half-right (AP), thinking that when he moves from the outside to the inside, it creates nice opportunities for lethal passes. It worked from time to time. Furthermore, I decided on a winger to give my team width. From a tactical point of view, I use a standard defensive line with a standard LOE, because I had the impression that a higher defensive line leaves too much space behind the back four.

I hope this is enough information for you to help me. If you are missing any information, feel free to ask. 

And be nice, it's my first post on the SI forums.

 

Kind Regards,

Edu 

ADO_Key_Players_Lee.png

ADO_Key_Players_Loum.png

ADO_Key_Players_Svensson.png

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14 dakika önce, edu-by-a said:

I had opted for a left-footer on the half-right (AP), thinking that when he moves from the outside to the inside, it creates nice opportunities for lethal passes. It worked from time to time.

ADO_Formation.png.7286a1ed28327700a17559f31b9b25fc.png.b755299f465ac572754436b6835d8c6e.png

This idea may create overloads on the left half of the pitch. After this dribbling from left footed APa, would you take into account filling that space he vacated with someone?

Why do you use "throw it long"  with distribution to CB-FB? Is there any reason to use them together?

Is counter-press TI suited to your team's strengths?

 

By the way; why do you use stay on feet? For decreasing risks or another reason?

 

37 dakika önce, edu-by-a said:

I use the SK on defend because I have had bad experiences with all other variants. I have also added "take fewer risks". 

Take fewer risks can force players to do clearances when pressured. 

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb zabyl:

This idea may create overloads on the left half of the pitch. After this dribbling from left footed APa, would you take into account filling that space he vacated with someone?

Thought about an IWB instead of an WB but wasn't sure about it. 

 

vor 2 Stunden schrieb zabyl:

Why do you use "throw it long"  with distribution to CB-FB? Is there any reason to use them together?

I usually try everything so that the goalkeeper doesn't knock the ball forward senselessly. That's the reason... not the best I know. :)

 

vor 2 Stunden schrieb zabyl:

Is counter-press TI suited to your team's strengths?

I am honestly not sure but I have had better results with Counter-Press.

Actually, I would rather play Regroup/Hold-Shape, but it has never worked.

vor 2 Stunden schrieb zabyl:

By the way; why do you use stay on feet? For decreasing risks or another reason?

A penalty against me every game.

 

vor 2 Stunden schrieb zabyl:

Take fewer risks can force players to do clearances when pressured.

I never thought of it that way. I will certainly change that.

 

Thank you!

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3 hours ago, zabyl said:

By the way; why do you use stay on feet? For decreasing risks or another reason?

That's a good question I sometimes feel I need to ask myself. In certain situations my players do tend to give away too many free kicks and usually this cuts down the silly goals that happen against me sometimes if we are loosing too many challenges or my players health are getting low pretty quick it means I need to either take off stay on feet or use get stuck in.

I guess this an evaluation of why TI's like that get used but a bit from my perspective; sometimes you don't need it and you trust your players but then you get a highlight with them on a set piece (excluding corners) and they score and then they get an underserved win. So I get why the op may use it.

Edited by De Nile
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1 saat önce, edu-by-a said:

I am honestly not sure but I have had better results with Counter-Press.

Actually, I would rather play Regroup/Hold-Shape, but it has never worked.

Don't use counter-press if you are not sure. Your team can counter-press without it if they decide it is the correct option. That TI increases risks defensively. You can use none or you can use counter-press against weaker sides for an in-game strategy to see its impacts to your team.

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vor 11 Minuten schrieb zabyl:

Don't use counter-press if you are not sure. Your team can counter-press without it if they decide it is the correct option. That TI increases risks defensively. You can use none or you can use counter-press against weaker sides for an in-game strategy to see its impacts to your team.

How do I know? It probably depends on attributes like aggression, stamina, bravery, etc., doesn't it?

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I think my initial question would be, do you think Den Haag are good enough to play on a positive mentaliyy as it involves more risk? Also I kind of feel like everything is a bit too slow. POoD, Shorter Passing, Lower Tempo seems a bit laboured whilst having roles like APat and DLFat.

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1 saat önce, edu-by-a said:

How do I know? It probably depends on attributes like aggression, stamina, bravery, etc., doesn't it?

Yes but it depends on opposition's strength too. If they are stronger than my team, I would think twice before using it.

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Some thoughts.

1) there's enough support in final third for Lower tempo, shorter passes football? Especially on the right side?

2) counter-press and stay on feet?

3) player morale management via team talks and individual interaction?

Watch one or two games 20 minutes on full detail and check how your tactic is doing? especially concerning keeping the ball at final third.

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Many thanks for the numerous comments and the help.

Basically, I overestimated my team a bit, at least that is my analysis.

That's why I decided to adjust my tactics. As it is a bit special in Holland with 4 excellent teams and a subsequent performance gap, I have designed two tactics. One tactic for counterattacking when I play against top teams and another tactic when I go into games where I claim to be the favourite. 

The counter-attack tactic aims to constrict spaces and, after winning the ball, to overload the right half-space with the Segundo Volante. This should create spaces for the IFat and the AFat. Alternatively, the APsu can drop deeper and pick up the ball to create chances. 

Spoiler

ADO_V1.png.dcf772babfecb5458b6f3b557fd86dea.png

With the second tactic, I also try to overload the right half-space but try to play a wider game and thus create space for the Wat and the WBat. The tactic is more intended to break through deep defences.

Spoiler

ADO_V2.png.b7cb17b292a1011af440325fea6eb3a6.png

I hope you understand my approach and it makes sense. Let's see if it helps me against the 4-4-2. 

I would be happy if you help me again. I am very grateful for your advice. 

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18 dakika önce, edu-by-a said:
Spoiler

ADO_V2.png.b7cb17b292a1011af440325fea6eb3a6.png

I hope you understand my approach and it makes sense. Let's see if it helps me against the 4-4-2. 

I wouldn't use a defend duty DM against 4-4-2. Because there is no AMC on 4-4-2. If the opposition uses attacker CM on 4-4-2 I would be very happy. Think about potential space that opposition formation can give you. If you use a support DM role, you can have midfield overload directly.

 

Meanwhile left flank roles are so similar. Pay attention to their forward movement on attacking plays.

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Totally up to you, but I’ve had some good success with combining a mez(a) on the winger side. Especially with an RPM moving into space, it can create a great overloads that are still supported, and can leave the backside open for switches too. I haven’t liked a mez of any kind with an IW (they too often occupy the same space) but with an IF it’s worked for me. 

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vor 19 Stunden schrieb 13th Man:

Totally up to you, but I’ve had some good success with combining a mez(a) on the winger side. Especially with an RPM moving into space, it can create a great overloads that are still supported, and can leave the backside open for switches too. I haven’t liked a mez of any kind with an IW (they too often occupy the same space) but with an IF it’s worked for me. 

Thank you for your advice, I will take that into account. 
 

For now, I switched to a 4-2-1-3, which gave me wins against Eindhoven and against Zwolle. Let's see how it does against the 4-4-2 with deep opponents.

I'm sure I'll add a classic 4-3-3 to it, if only because you can switch between the two systems fluidly.

 

ADO_4-2-1-3.png.959c648e218d73681ea7571aec44257b.png

 

Please feel free to comment, if you spot any major flaws.

Thank you. :-)

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I like the look of that!  Should have interesting movement down the right with the IF ready to take advantage of 1v1s.  I would consider swapping the outside duties (IFa and Ws) but I actually think your current set up might be better for a shorter passing tactic.

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