A deep dive into an (Edited) Inter 4-4-2

[LukeGrimesFM]

Hi Guys, greetings from Italy!

First and foremost I wanted to thank all the people that had contributed to this great forum (and, if I may, give a big shouout to @Rashidi, whose posts here, and his YouTube videos are simply brilliant)! I don’t consider myself even remotely an expert, but if I learned something and I’m now able to write my first ever (and hopefully sensible) post, I have to thank all you guys! Secondly I’d like to apologize in advance if not everything is clear and well written, but English in not my native language, and I haven’t written such a long and articulated piece of “paper” since my school days.

I’m going to divide this post into 3 parts 1) Some background Info 2) Tactical breakdown 3) Doubts and questions (lots of them)

1) Before jumping into the tactic I’d like to give you some background information about this experiment: as an Inter fan, this summer I had to go through the Lukaku and Conte departure, so I thought: what about managing Inter in FM as if BigRom and Antonio left a year earlier? This means that I had to sell Lukaku to Chelsea (95M), and that I had to wipe out the transfer activity made under Conte that summer: no Hakimi (back to Real Madrid), no Vidal (Barca), no Darmian, no Kolarov. But I wasn’t done with the major squad changes: I’d always liked to manage Griezmann in an FM save, but I never did: when he was in Madrid (FM15) it didn’t seem quite right to me to replace Simeone, and I’ve never been a Barca fan, so…I decided to turn into reality a transfer rumor that was quite popular the last two summers: Lautaro to Barca! And what a better way to do it with a straight Lautaro-Griezmann exchange?! The other players that I brought in with the Editor (I admit I was a bit get carried away using it) were the one and only Luke Ayling for 7.5M (long story short, loved him during a long Bristol City save in FM15), Kieran Tierney for 47.5M (the 109M fee that my DoF negotiated seemed a little too high), and Jesse Lingard on loan. Finally the other two signings (done "legally" with my DoF) were Andrea Belotti and Nahitan Nández.

2) Now let’s jump into the 4-4-2. 

Spoiler

The choice of the formation was quite easy, I’ve always like the 4-4-2, and I think the players on the squad are suitable for my interpretation of this system. I want to create a low-mid block out of possession (with the Regroup and Lower LOE TIs, and the Slight Higher DL given by the Positive mentality), with the players eager to win back the football once the LOE is passed (with the Slightly More Urgent Pressing Intensity given by the Mentality, the Tighter Marking and Get Stuck In TIs). I want a compact, hard to break down team, that harass the opponent in our own half in way that prevent the opponent from squeezing us too much near our penalty box.

But I’m willing to soak up pressure in order to exploit the space left behind the opposition D-Line, with a sort of a custom Fluid Counter Attacking Style: Counter, Hit Early Crosses, Normal Passing Directness (I don’t want only to pump quickly the ball into the box) and Slightly Higher Tempo (Instruction given by the Mentality) TIs. I also like the Play Out Of Defence TI, to prevent too many long balls from the whole defence (and leave them to the BPD) and to encourage to go through our very good Midfield. On top of that we don’t have great height and jumping reach across the midfield and the attack, so less high long balls the better.

It’s now time to talk about the Positive mentality: I chose it for several reasons, but mainly for three of them: the naturally higher d-line, the slightly higher pressing intensity and, last but not least, the higher base mentality of the players. I have technical and intelligent players, and I want to take advantage of it, but with some conditions: I also use the Be More Disciplined TI because I want to be able to control better which players have the added creative freedom (especially for the passing game) given by the higher mentality. In order to do so I add the Take More Risks PI for these players or use Roles that provides it by default.

Before talking about the last two TIs I’ve not mentioned yet (Fairly Narrow and Focus Play Down the Left), I think it’s better to talk about the combinations of Roles and Duty I chose for this Tactic, and what I’m trying to achieve with them.

Spoiler

Attacking Movements I'm trying to achieve.

I start with the role I chose for Griezmann (on the STCR slot because his preferred foot is Left): the Trequartista.

I like it because it’s a role that is hardcoded to drop deep to receive the ball (and by doing so he can free up space for the runs of the WM(A), more on that later), but it also allows the player to attack the space behind the d-line with the Move Into the Channels instruction, giving balance to the attacks. On top of that, I think that the attributes required for the role suits perfectly the Griezmann strengths. I only added the Hold up Ball PI, in order to give more time to the player around him to make the off ball movement I’d like to see.

Secondly I’ll explain the role I chose for Eriksen (side note: I think he’s an absolutely terrific player, and thanks to the editor I gave him almost the attributes of his best times for Tottenham): obviously he’s best suited for a playmaker-like role, but I chose the WM(S) over the WP(S) for one main reason: I don’t want the ball magnet effect given by the Playmaker role. Another positive side effect for the WM role is that it’s more alert and disciplined defensively, thanks to some preferred attributes highlighted for the position, such as Positioning, Concentration, Tackling. In order to give it more of a playmaker role I added some PIs: Take More Risks, Cut Inside with the ball, Roam from Position, Sits Narrower – which are the most important ones that are hardcoded into the WP role.

It’s now time for the WM(A): I see this role like a sort of an off the ball expert, making diagonals runs from deep to the opposition area and proving goal scoring threats. (Shoutout to @crusadertsar for this very interesting post:https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/468023-creating-deep-lying-raumdeuter/) The designed starter is Perisic, who has THE MOST PERFECT (or at least I think so) Player Traits for what I want to achieve: Moves Into Channels, Gets Forward Whenever Possible, Gets Into Opposition Area. As for PIs, I added Cuts Inside with the Ball and Roam from Position.

In order to try to achieve this kind of movement from the WM(A), I think it’s important to add the Focus Play Down the Left and Fairly Narrow TIs. The first mentioned TI should create a natural overload to the left that should free up space for the WM(A) and, in conjunction with the Fairly Narrow TI, it should encourage players to play the ball through the central area of the pitch.

Now let’s take a look at the other roles and duties. Starting from the back, a simple GK role for Handa, not too much to say about that. On the flanks two FB(S) with Stay Wider PI for both of them (in order to provide some width), with the only difference between them given by the addition of the Get Forward PI for the right sided one, in order to provide an additional outlet for a pass down the right if the WM(A) has cut inside. Bear in mind that almost all of my FBs have the Gets Forward Whenever Possible PI, so they’re already aggressive by default, and I think that using a WB role would be too much. Alongside a simple CD(D) I chose a BPD(D), hoping for some long diagonal balls for the WM(A) (maybe asking too much?), or at least hoping he can give a hand to bring the ball out of the defence cleanly, given the PT of De Vrij and Bastoni.

For the pair in central midfield, I chose a combination of a CM(D)-Brozovic, and a BWM(S)-Barella.

For the “EpicBrozo” role I have no doubts about it: good tackling, positioning, passing, work rate and teamwork makes him (or at least I think so) a good holding midfielder. I added a touch of flair with a personalised PI: take more risk. I think it suits his passing ability, and it gives him a sort of a more defensive oriented and disciplined Deep Lying Playmaker kind of role.

The decision-making process for the Barella role was more troubled: his attributes and his player traits were screaming for a BBM role. But by doing so I would have had four(!) roaming roles across the pitch, and three of them in midfield. Certainly too many, given the fact the I want to have some defensive solidity. So I opted for a role, the BMW(S), that should bring out what I like the most of his playing style in real life: his competitive spirit. With top attributes for tackling, aggression, bravery, determination, work rate and stamina, he can be a disruptive force in Midfield. Also thanks to his all-around attributes and nice PTs, he can bring something completer and more different from the BWM prototype.

 

Now, last but not least, the striker partner of Griezmann: Belotti.I chose the PF(A) role (more on that later) because I think it can complement well the Treq: he does defensively the job that the Treq doesn’t, and his primary focus is to attack the space left behind the opposition d-line (even if he can also help the team to keep possession).

 

3) Now let’s move into the part I was looking forward the most: I’d like to express some doubts and make some question about some aspects of the game I'm not quite able to grasp yet.

• I’d like to start with the interaction between PI and Player Trait, and maybe with some clarification for some of them, taking into as an example the Trequartista Griezmann: amongst the others, he has the Move Into Channel PT (which it’s also a PI for his role): does his Player Trait affect the ability to drop deep (which I think is a specific feature of the role) since the channels are only exploitable going forwards?

 

• I take as an example Griezmann’s Player Traits in order to make another question: is it good for a player (especially for a playmaker) to have both the Tries Killer Balls Often and Shoot From Distance Player Traits? It come just down to how good is the decision making of the player in order to be able to make the right choice between passing or shooting, or having both can mess up the decision making itself?

 

• Let’s now focus to the player traits of Ivan Perisic: is it actually good to have them in order to obtain the movement I envision for the position? Does the Move Into Channel PT without the Sit Narrower PI affect the channel the player exploit? Will Perisic exploit only the channel between the CD and the FB, or he’ll try also to exploit the one between the FB and the Touchline? How is it possible to avoid this (or maybe achieve this for another tactical setup)?

 

• The last question/clarification about player traits I’d like to make is about training also: what are the conditions that can lead a player to develop naturally a new trait? Because this happened to Nandez (he’s not part of any mentoring group and he's training with the team for about a month).

 

 

 

• I mentioned before I would have talked more about the choice for the role of Belotti: I’m very hesitant between the PF(A) and the Poacher Role. I like what the PF(A) could bring defensively, but also what it does without the ball when we are in possession: he attacks the space behind the defence, but he also helps the team in possession (or at least I’ve seen this kind of behaviour). But I was wandering if in this particular tactic it would be better a Poacher, who “sits on the shoulder of the last defender”, maybe being able to provide more space for the WM(S) and the Treq to move into. In addition to this, "il Gallo" Belotti has scored three goals in the first two Serie A matches, so I'm a little hesitant to change his role

 

• One thing about The Be more disciplined TI: is it correct the reasoning for choosing it, or am I missing/misunderstanding something about this TI?

 

• Finally just one more thing, this time about Set Pieces: It’s the first time I’ve created a corner routine with two players with the Lurk Outside the Area instruction, and this happen with their positioning (in all of the 6 matches I’ve played so far). Is it just the way it is or somehow I can achieve a different positioning for them (maybe something like the positions I highlighted in black in the picture)?

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's about it! I hope you enjoyed the reading (if you made it to the end), and I’m looking forward for your feedback!

Cheers!

Edited September 13, 2021 by LukeGrimesFM

[De Nile]

About the corner I don't think you can have one on each end of the box they both face the direction of the corner taker and stand closer to the corner kick on the edge of the box. One thing I have done but I used a Stay Back if needed on the far end of the pitch which seems to move closer after the kick is taken.

The poacher role shines with a creator but by the looks of it the only playmaker in your team is the treq therefore make sure you add some creative pi's to the WMs and the CM(d) so it can pick out the poacher a lot more, also if you do plan to use the poacher don't use be disciplined TI otherwise it will just prevent/slow down the time it takes to get the ball to the poacher.

Edited September 13, 2021 by De Nile

[zabyl]

This was a nice read for me. Well done.

There's only one thing stuck in my head. Why you didn't use a more forward thinking FB role on RFB. This is somewhat conservative. A WBs role could be an excellent addition to this with RCM's defensive help as you use focus play down the left. Maybe you thought like "I steal the ball on the right side and send to left and isolate WMa & Ta.". If so; there is no need to change anything. Good striker partnership, secure CM combination. A fine idea to punish sides on the break. 

 

33 dakika önce, LukeGrimesFM said:

I’d like to start with the interaction between PI and Player Trait, and maybe with some clarification for some of them, taking into as an example the Trequartista Griezmann: amongst the others, he has the Move Into Channel PT (which it’s also a PI for his role): does his Player Trait affect the ability to drop deep (which I think is a specific feature of the role) since the channels are only exploitable going forwards?

Treq drops deep when needed if the player doesn't have conflicting PPMs. Move into channels is not a conflicting PPM for Ta movement. If it was, that PI would not be hardcoded too.

 

44 dakika önce, LukeGrimesFM said:

I take as an example Griezmann’s Player Traits in order to make another question: is it good for a player (especially for a playmaker) to have both the Tries Killer Balls Often and Shoot From Distance Player Traits? It come just down to how good is the decision making of the player in order to be able to make the right choice between passing or shooting, or having both can mess up the decision making itself?

If he has good long shot and decision attributes, this would be a problem solver than creating problems for me.

 

47 dakika önce, LukeGrimesFM said:

Let’s now focus to the player traits of Ivan Perisic: is it actually good to have them in order to obtain the movement I envision for the position? Does the Move Into Channel PT without the Sit Narrower PI affect the channel the player exploit? Will Perisic exploit only the channel between the CD and the FB, or he’ll try also to exploit the one between the FB and the Touchline? How is it possible to avoid this (or maybe achieve this for another tactical setup)?

Space between FB and touchline is not a channel. It is only space. Wide roles doesn't use that space if you use inside cutting roles on strong inside cutting foot side...

 

 

1 saat önce, LukeGrimesFM said:

I mentioned before I would have talked more about the choice for the role of Belotti: I’m very hesitant between the PF(A) and the Poacher Role. I like what the PF(A) could bring defensively, but also what it does without the ball when we are in possession: he attacks the space behind the defence, but he also helps the team in possession (or at least I’ve seen this kind of behaviour). But I was wandering if in this particular tactic it would be better a Poacher, who “sits on the shoulder of the last defender”, maybe being able to provide more space for the WM(S) and the Treq to move into. In addition to this, "il Gallo" Belotti has scored three goals in the first two Serie A matches, so I'm a little hesitant to change his role

PFa is a better role to combine with Ta. They balance pressing and risks. These two can help each other to create space. 

 

1 saat önce, LukeGrimesFM said:

One thing about The Be more disciplined TI: is it correct the reasoning for choosing it, or am I missing/misunderstanding something about this TI?

Be more disciplined forces players to play in the limits of team mentality, player mentality, TIs, PIs, PPMs. Don't expect so much magic from players except Ta and BPD. WMs and WMa can create things with their PPMs. Works well with counter attacking.

[LukeGrimesFM]

Thanks for the replies!

8 ore fa, zabyl ha scritto:

Why you didn't use a more forward thinking FB role on RFB. This is somewhat conservative. A WBs role could be an excellent addition to this with RCM's defensive help as you use focus play down the left.

That’s a very good point, I can say that it’s a fact that at times I tend to be overly cautious.

8 ore fa, zabyl ha scritto:

Maybe you thought like "I steal the ball on the right side and send to left and isolate WMa & Ta."

That’s the basic idea, but I also don’t like to be one dimensional when it comes down to create tactics, maybe this can help to create secondary patterns as well. I’ll give it a go!

[Justified]

Question, how do you feel the BWM does in this sort of system? I only ask because in a soak and counter tactic, is his role not a bit too risky? I've not tried myself, hence why I'm asking.

[LukeGrimesFM]

It’s true that the BWM is more aggressive and presses more the other midfielder roles by default, but I think the most important thing to watch is the Line Of Engagement: since I set it to lower, the team starts to press from deeper and it prevents the BWM to lose his position and press too high up the pitch. So far so good.

[Justified]

10 hours ago, LukeGrimesFM said:

It’s true that the BWM is more aggressive and presses more the other midfielder roles by default, but I think the most important thing to watch is the Line Of Engagement: since I set it to lower, the team starts to press from deeper and it prevents the BWM to lose his position and press too high up the pitch. So far so good.

Ok fair enough. Was just curious because I thought a BWM on support allows him to just go and harass players all over the pitch. A BWM on defend I'd expect him to follow the LoE more as he wouldn't venture too far forward. But good to know 

[Dj-Voodoo]

Great write-up! 

 

I have to say the 'Regroup' TI + Lower LoE TI is a killer combo to have for a high quality counter-attacking team, I swear by it.

[LukeGrimesFM]

Update #1

After the first few games, it’s time to review how the tactic is performing. Honestly I have to say that I’m not very happy. The only change I made from the initial tactic was the role of the DR: I followed the advice of @zabyl and changed it to a WB(S). As you can see the performances are inconsistent: a couple of convincing victories (don’t be misled by the 4-1 win against Milan: we were down 0-1 until Theo Hernandez was sent off) in which I saw some of the movement I envisioned when I created the tactic, and some others not-so-good-to-watch matches. In these fixtures I saw some good movements too, and that lead me to believe that I shouldn’t throw the whole tactic in the garbage, but they weren’t just consistent enough, and I indeed started to notice some worrying patterns, both in Defence Positioning and Attacking Movements. To be thorough I have to say that the tactical familiarity levels are all on Fluid, except from the Position/Role/Duty one that is on Competent.

 

Let’s begin with this picture. I posted only this one, but I can assure you that this happens every time the opponent team enters our own half. I should have seen this coming: since both strikers are on Attack duty and the team is set to a mid-low block, there are acres of space between the midfield line and the strikers. This is a problem for both the defending and the transitioning phases: on defence the lack of support from the strikers allows the opposition to take control of the midfield and to pin us back towards our penalty area; when we are able to win the ball back deep in our own third, it is often difficult to launch a counter attack because the two strikers are too far up the pitch.

But this is not the only bad pattern I take from this picture: the other one is the Positioning of the CMR, Brozovic. He’s not in line with the other three midfielders, and this allows the opposition to go even more undisturbed high up the pitch before being pressed.

 

Now let’s take a look at an Attacking Movement I really don’t like. This one is related to the positioning of the WM(S), in this case Eriksen, when we have the ball deep on the opponent flanks. 

In these pictures Eriksen attacks the box, which I think is pointless. I’d prefer he positions himself further from the 6-yard box, ideally just outside the penalty box: in this way he can help the team to retain possession (if the attack is taking place on his same flank), or if the attacking move takes place on the opposite flank, he can potentially win second balls, shoot from distance or cross the ball. Moreover the penalty area is often already crowded, because the BWM (that plays next to Eriksen) often makes forward runs due to his PPM (Gets further forward). So I wonder a) why this is happening, and b) what I could do in order to achieve what I’d like. 

                 

a)    The forward runs I think are produced by the Counter TI and the Roam from Position PI (He hasn’t got any movement related PPM).
b)    Since removing the Counter TI is out of question, I’ll remove the Roam from Position PI and maybe I’ll even add the Hold Position PI (in doing so, creating a sort of                wide Enganche role? Does that make sense, or is it just nonsense?)
 

To sum it all up, I came up with two tactics, that follow two separate pathways: for the first one I kept all the Player Roles from my initial tactic, changing instead the defensive phase. If I then came up with a second tactic I have to thank @cocoadavid (be sure to check out his great thread: https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/552927-a-guide-to-defending-like-a-real-442/), that really opened my eyes on how to defend with a proper 4-4-2 shape. In this second tactic I kept intact the counter attacking playstyle, but I changed some roles and duties. Anyway, the common denominator is one: reducing the distance between the midfield and the strikers, in order to achieve more defensive compactness. Before jumping to the tactics, let's take a look at the starting 11 PPMs:

GK- Handanovic: Tries to play way out of trouble
DR- Ayling: Gets forward whenever possible, Knocks ball past opponent
DCR- Skriniar: Marks opponent tightly 
DCL- De Vrij: Does not dives into tackles, Brings ball out of defence
DL- Tierney: Runs with ball down left, Knocks ball past opponent, Hugs line, Gets crowd going
MR- Perisic: Move into channels, Gets forward whenever possible, Gets into opposition area
MCR- Brozovic: Dictates Tempo, Likes to switch ball to wide areas
MCL- Barella: Gets forward whenever possible, Dives into tackles, Runs with ball often
ML- Eriksen: Tries killer balls often, Places shots, Comes deep to get the ball, Plays one-twos
STCR- Griezmann: Runs with ball through centre, Moves into channels, Tries killer balls often, Shoot from distance, Likes to lob keeper 
STCL- Belotti: Moves into channels, Likes to try to beat offside trap, Attempts overhead kicks

Tactic #1

As mentioned before, in the first tactic I kept the roles set up from the original one, but with one difference: I changed the duty of the MCR, from Defend to Support, adding to it the Hold Position PI. I also changed radically the Out of Possession TIs: in order to reduce the distance between the midfielders and the strikers (which I left on Attack Duties), I increased the DL (now set to higher) and I removed the Regroup TI. In doing so, now the midfielders should begin to press slightly higher up the pitch, creating a compact mid bock. Maybe I can be even more aggressive, adding the Counter-Press TI and setting the LOE to normal, in order to create a Mid-High Block. In any case, I removed the Get Stuck In (because going too aggressive and losing 50/50 challenges can lead us to be exposed to counter attacks), the Be More Disciplined TIs and added instead the Dribble Less TI, in order to have a pass first mentality that should promote the off the ball movements. Everything else is pretty much the same.

PIs:
DR: Stay Wider
DL: Stay Wider
MCR: Hold Position
ML: Take More Risks, Cut Inside with Ball, Sit Narrower, (Hold Position?)
STCR: Hold Up Ball

 

 

 

Tactic #2

Now let’s take a look at the second tactic. Here I’m trying to achieve what I couldn’t with my initial tactic: a solid defensive shaped 4-4-2, with the famous two banks of four, that hit teams on the break. First of all, as in the previous tactic, I changed the duty of the MCR, who is now on Support duty, with the added Hold Position PI. But the major changes are set for the strikers: in order to be able to help defensively they have to be set on Support duties. The STCL (Belotti) is now a PF(S), and the STCR (Griezmann) is now a F9. For the In Possession Instructions, as for the tactic above, I removed the Be More Disciplined TI and added the Dribble Less one.

PIs:
DR: Stay Wider
DL: Stay Wider
MCR: Hold Position
ML: Take More Risks, Cut Inside with Ball, Sit Narrower, (Hold Position?)
STCR: Roam from Position
STCL: Move into Channels

 

 

 

 

 

That’s what I came up with, but of course I’m not entirely sure if I made sensible choices for the Roles/Duties/PIs/TIs ecc, any suggestion would be highly appreciated!

That’s about it, cheers!

 

[zabyl]

14 dakika önce, LukeGrimesFM said:

You can use Eriksen with a more important role. With this; passes can reach him faster. He is the most creative player on this screen. You need to use him more than other players. You need to send him more balls. Use a role which can focus passes to him. What I'm saying is WPs/a. 

Change the sides of the strikers. Griezmann on LS with Ta can combine better with Eriksen. Use Belotti on the RS as an attack role which can suit him more.

I don't suggest using dribble less. It can restrict your attacking variety. I don't suggest using hit early crosses because your WMa  and WBs are out of attacking plans with that TI. 

You can use standard LOE instead of lower. But it can be used like that too. I don't suggest using too much vertical congestion. It can ease opposition's play.

[LukeGrimesFM]

Thank you for the heads-up! I will definitely give them a try!

[Dj-Voodoo]

I'm a student of the 4-4-2 and was greatly inspired by your OP to return to the dark arts of 4-4-f'n-2. I've had good-to-great, but not excellent, success with it. Still haven't been able to slay any dragons but we're definitely building something formidable. 

• Your revision to the CMR was expected, making sure the central midfielders are both on Support Duty and not Defend is critical in a flat four midfield. That said 
• I'm hesitate to take off the Regroup TI because I feel like that is the only thing keeping a counter-attacking tactic from turning into a mess, so I'd keep the Regroup TI.
• (Based on the comment above) I also adapted your Hit Early Crosses but on the whole I feel like most of my goals have come from ground play and passing movements, I will disable Hit Early Crosses and think you should reconsider.
• I'd keep one striker on Attack Duty, I'm playing with a WMa on the side of a F9s who is besides a AFa who is on the side of the WMs. The AFa moves around a fair bit more than I want BUT he has nabbed critically important goals simply because he was the only player stretching the vertical space and playing off the shoulder of his defender. Maybe PFa accomplishes the same thing but that would sacrifice his mobility (which, like I said, got me some crucial goals)
• If you ask your WMs to hold position, then you need an attacking C/WB to overlap otherwise you're toothless on that side. Maybe just disable the roam from position PI?

[bosque]

hace 6 horas, Dj-Voodoo dijo:

I'm a student of the 4-4-2 and was greatly inspired by your OP to return to the dark arts of 4-4-f'n-2. I've had good-to-great, but not excellent, success with it. Still haven't been able to slay any dragons but we're definitely building something formidable. 

• Your revision to the CMR was expected, making sure the central midfielders are both on Support Duty and not Defend is critical in a flat four midfield. That said 
• I'm hesitate to take off the Regroup TI because I feel like that is the only thing keeping a counter-attacking tactic from turning into a mess, so I'd keep the Regroup TI.
• (Based on the comment above) I also adapted your Hit Early Crosses but on the whole I feel like most of my goals have come from ground play and passing movements, I will disable Hit Early Crosses and think you should reconsider.
• I'd keep one striker on Attack Duty, I'm playing with a WMa on the side of a F9s who is besides a AFa who is on the side of the WMs. The AFa moves around a fair bit more than I want BUT he has nabbed critically important goals simply because he was the only player stretching the vertical space and playing off the shoulder of his defender. Maybe PFa accomplishes the same thing but that would sacrifice his mobility (which, like I said, got me some crucial goals)
• If you ask your WMs to hold position, then you need an attacking C/WB to overlap otherwise you're toothless on that side. Maybe just disable the roam from position PI?

Do you think these principles would work on a 4-4-1-1 with an AMC on support and an Advanced Forward?

[Dj-Voodoo]

2 hours ago, bosque said:

Do you think these principles would work on a 4-4-1-1 with an AMC on support and an Advanced Forward?

When I play a 4411 it is still in the spirit of a 442, so I have the AMC be actually offset to eg. the left like a AM-CL and the striker is correspondingly offset to the right (ST-R). When I play a 4411 that's central, I believe the entire attacking concept is different (it's basically a 4-2-3-1) than a two-man striking partnership. 

But if you want that flat bank of four effect you likely need to have the Regroup TI and the two CMs to be on support duty no matter their role. If you play a more patient game, you can have the two wide midfielders be on support duty with "get further forward" PI enabled, it is a bit different than if they were on attacking duty. 

[bosque]

hace 2 horas, Dj-Voodoo dijo:

When I play a 4411 it is still in the spirit of a 442, so I have the AMC be actually offset to eg. the left like a AM-CL and the striker is correspondingly offset to the right (ST-R). When I play a 4411 that's central, I believe the entire attacking concept is different (it's basically a 4-2-3-1) than a two-man striking partnership. 

But if you want that flat bank of four effect you likely need to have the Regroup TI and the two CMs to be on support duty no matter their role. If you play a more patient game, you can have the two wide midfielders be on support duty with "get further forward" PI enabled, it is a bit different than if they were on attacking duty. 

I have problems in FM19 with both CMs on support. Even with the DLP on balanced he goes too forward and we end up dealing against very dangerous counterattacks because they play balls between our midfield and defence.

Is this a thing that was solved in further editions? Because my DLP has very good mentals to be so bad positioned.

[Dj-Voodoo]

1 hour ago, bosque said:

I have problems in FM19 with both CMs on support. Even with the DLP on balanced he goes too forward and we end up dealing against very dangerous counterattacks because they play balls between our midfield and defence.

Is this a thing that was solved in further editions? Because my DLP has very good mentals to be so bad positioned.

I will be honest and say I don't remember FM 19 very well. In FM 20 and FM 21 I've had success with a DLPs paired with a BMWs for instance. 

 

Try the Hold Position PI?

[bosque]

hace 2 horas, Dj-Voodoo dijo:

I will be honest and say I don't remember FM 19 very well. In FM 20 and FM 21 I've had success with a DLPs paired with a BMWs for instance. 

 

Try the Hold Position PI?

DLP already has hold position PI in FM19. I will pay more attention. Maybe I was using some weird instruction.