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Jorge Sampaoli


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Has anyone tried to set up how sampaoli does i really love the idea of a 3331 formation i just wanted some advice on this set up this is what i have gone with as a starting point

Screenshot (11).png

Screenshot (12).png

Edited by latrell
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9 minutes ago, De Nile said:

It is similar to 343 diamond so you may want to try to recreate that to get the 3331 in attack.

is that in the pre set formations ? 

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2 hours ago, latrell said:

Has anyone tried to set up how sampaoli does i really love the idea of a 3331 formation i just wanted some advice on this set up this is what i have gone with as a starting point

Screenshot (11).png

Screenshot (12).png

Marseille and Sampaoli, would love to help with this and will have a read up on what he is doing right now. 

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1 hour ago, latrell said:

is that in the pre set formations ? 

No if you search across the forums you will see people trying to create the 343 diamond all you have to do is find it and copy it then change team instructions to make it a bit like sampoli tactics

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i have had a read it the analysis very good piece wish it was a bit more about how  he has set up this season with the players he has but the principles are the same, im now looking at this shape

Screenshot (13).png

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My inverted wing backs would be midfielders that i will retrain i am hoping they will push high up to create a diamond but also be ale to give more cover in the wide areas than a carrilero.

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I would set up with a flat 442/4411. They defend in this shape.

RB - IWB-a

RCB -CD-d stay wider PI

LCB -CD-d

LB -FB-d sit narrower PI

This should give you a back 3 in attacking phase

W-a, CAR, CM-s, W-a across the midfield from left to right

Up front 2 F9s or F9 with AM-s behind 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Sampaoli uses some kind of Positional Play. I slowly analysed their build up and attacking shape. I'm not sure about their defensive shape. I suppose they defend like 4-4-2 or 5-3-2. I didn't see their defensive shape from match highlights. Here are my thoughts:

 

 

 

IMG_1430.PNG.ca4dbf078abeb0b098ca463c807878a6.PNG

 

IMG_1429.PNG.0a06654dc66718c1303c40ecbd51c253.PNG

 

 

 

IMG_1427.PNG.a4017a4cd0d80101122446cffab74259.PNG

 

 

 

IMG_1421.PNG.86bb6757fab9571ae956c21e6bbdf7da.PNG

 

IMG_1424.PNG.a25c644d892e2eb4f90054ce95a3cc7e.PNG

 

IMG_1419.PNG.d025d3dae600ea2fc90fcd5e79665d0f.PNG

 

IMG_1417.PNG.acb1cc3fc6756947350077a3b808ea65.PNG

 

So from these screenshots I think they play like this:

  • They use full width of the pitch when they attack. First rule of positional play is done perfectly.
  • Their build up shape is 3-4-3. Two attack minded "CM"s / "CAM"s provide width to create this shape. They move into half spaces when on attack.
  • Lone forward Payet drops deep or moves wide to create central & wide overloads. This helps their pressing too. They tend to win the ball on middle third more.
  • Two players play on DM but one of them gets higher when they attack. This movement creates a 3-1-6 / 2-2-6.
  • Sampaoli uses inside wingers/forwards for both flanks. These players provide width for attacking plays. 
  • Sampaoli definitely uses counter attacks to increase the impact of fast and skillful inside wingers.
  • They use a good height of field for passing network. In FM language this can be standard DL-standard LOE or higher DL-standard LOE.
  • LCB sends line cutting passes and long balls. Both side "CB"s can bring ball out of defence.
  • Marseille's ball movement from defence to attack is high. This means they use a higher tempo in FM language. 
  • Their passing length is not too short or too high. I think it is a bit shorter.
  • Marseille's proggressive passing numbers and forward runs are fairly well. This means a positive mentality.
  • Sampaoli strictly uses pass into space because they create space with their higher movement.
  • They build up from the back for drawing attention of opposition to create space.
  • They implement an intense pressing on middle third to steal the ball.

 

These are my thoughts about Jorge Sampaoli's Marseille from the highlights of their last two games.

Edited by zabyl
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2 hours ago, zabyl said:

Sampaoli uses some kind of Positional Play. I slowly analysed their build up and attacking shape. I'm not sure about their defensive shape. I suppose they defend like 4-4-2 or 5-3-2. I didn't see their defensive shape from match highlights. Here are my thoughts:

 

 

 

IMG_1430.PNG.ca4dbf078abeb0b098ca463c807878a6.PNG

 

IMG_1429.PNG.0a06654dc66718c1303c40ecbd51c253.PNG

 

 

 

IMG_1427.PNG.a4017a4cd0d80101122446cffab74259.PNG

 

 

 

IMG_1421.PNG.86bb6757fab9571ae956c21e6bbdf7da.PNG

 

IMG_1424.PNG.a25c644d892e2eb4f90054ce95a3cc7e.PNG

 

IMG_1419.PNG.d025d3dae600ea2fc90fcd5e79665d0f.PNG

 

IMG_1417.PNG.acb1cc3fc6756947350077a3b808ea65.PNG

 

So from these screenshots I think they play like this:

  • They use full width of the pitch when they attack. First rule of positional play is done perfectly.
  • Their build up shape is 3-4-3. Two attack minded "CM"s / "CAM"s provide width to create this shape. They move into half spaces when on attack.
  • Lone forward Payet drops deep or moves wide to create central & wide overloads. This helps their pressing too. They tend to win the ball on middle third more.
  • Two players play on DM but one of them gets higher when they attack. This movement creates a 3-1-6 / 2-2-6.
  • Sampaoli uses inside wingers/forwards for both flanks. These players provide width for attacking plays. 
  • Sampaoli definitely uses counter attacks to increase the impact of fast and skillful inside wingers.
  • They use a good height of field for passing network. In FM language this can be standard DL-standard LOE or higher DL-standard LOE.
  • LCB sends line cutting passes and long balls. Both side "CB"s can bring ball out of defence.
  • Marseille's ball movement from defence to attack is high. This means they use a higher tempo in FM language. 
  • Their passing length is not too short or too high. I think it is a bit shorter.
  • Marseille's proggressive passing numbers and forward runs are fairly well. This means a positive mentality.
  • Sampaoli strictly uses pass into space because they create space with their higher movement.
  • They build up from the back for drawing attention of opposition to create space.
  • They implement an intense pressing on middle third to steal the ball.

 

These are my thoughts about Jorge Sampaoli's Marseille from the highlights of their last two games.

thanks zabyl this has gave me a lot to think about and some fresh ideas, have you got any formation in mind or roles that could be used in fm to achieve this.

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17 hours ago, Trevomac said:

I would set up with a flat 442/4411. They defend in this shape.

RB - IWB-a

RCB -CD-d stay wider PI

LCB -CD-d

LB -FB-d sit narrower PI

This should give you a back 3 in attacking phase

W-a, CAR, CM-s, W-a across the midfield from left to right

Up front 2 F9s or F9 with AM-s behind 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

very interesting i am going to set this up and see how it plays out and if it gets the shape right. 

Screenshot (14).png

Edited by latrell
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1 saat önce, latrell said:

thanks zabyl this has gave me a lot to think about and some fresh ideas, have you got any formation in mind or roles that could be used in fm to achieve this.

I don't know their defensive shape exactly. So I don't have an idea. I must watch a full game to decide. Defensive shape is important for replicating this. I have a strong feeling about 4-4-2.

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On 14/09/2021 at 15:44, latrell said:

very interesting i am going to set this up and see how it plays out and if it gets the shape right. 

Screenshot (14).png

Yeah something along these lines.

 

The right sided CM/CAM that zabyl questions is definitely an IWB in my eyes because of the defensive shape.

And from his images, you can see the back 4.

image.png.cdf95eed332cda56b26231b5c23e89bb.pngimage.png.17943abfba7c1d4de582e2633fa4d1ae.png

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Decided to try implement my idea.

Here we are out of possesion and defending in 442 formation.

853721747_2021-09-1721_11_27-Window.png.1629dd6b0aef6fd8f82bfca1ce1e1506.png

 

We win back posession

88603367_2021-09-1721_11_44-Window.png.75145cd421c0359085ce4beb1b6fd246.png

 

We transition and the IWB-A on the right moves into midfield very quickly

2042490309_2021-09-1721_12_03-Window.png.a66f25e7731693e1848c33bbb172545e.png

 

The ball gets played wide and we have a 3-3-4 shape or could be considered a 3-4-3 diamond

1341758221_2021-09-1721_12_17-Window.png.6f5f48bf9004a314fbeeff8bf148eac6.png

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this is a game i watched this season that made me really love the shape and formation Sampaoli plays im still trying to get it right in Fm but i am having great difficulty with it.  

Screenshot (15).png

Screenshot (16).png

Edited by latrell
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On 18/09/2021 at 09:20, latrell said:

I really like your shape with possession trevomac can u post your up your formation and player roles. 

This is what I used.

FB - sit narrower

RCB - stay wider

LCM - STay wider, roam

RCM - roam

 

I've swapped between 2 x F9 and F9 and Treq

826636640_2021-09-1922_37_05-Window.png.3afcd10ce79b2f5c77c9c099157c973a.png

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Here are some more screenshots from the last win against Rennes:

We are into a defensive transition and this is a clear 4-4-2. OK, they defend as 4-4-2

IMG_1435.PNG.60b6ca09fbb92d01800ffe43de3f395d.PNG

 

 

IMG_1436.PNG.b753b6ee4a37427e98fcfbcc2cc5e969.PNG

3-1-6 on attack again. Here RB Lirola pushes high and wide to provide attacking width. This is a wingback movement. RM/RW Ünder is inside on the right half space. LM/LW Fuente provides width on the left. Look at Gueye's position. He is in the middle of the space between lowest defender and lowest attacker if you look on team length. LB dribbles and sends a through ball. LB plays like LCB. He is an IWBd for me. Left half space is used by Guendouzi. It is not certain but he can be a MEZs. LF Dieng plays on the shoulder of defenders and he is in the left channel. This is an attack duty striker role with move into channels. RF Payet is in front of opposition defenders. His role is definitely a support one.

 

 

IMG_1437.PNG.ae6e8acae335c63c961bb3585884de94.PNG

This is the first goal Marseille scored. RB Lirola makes a low cross to Dieng who is in the left channel between RB-RCB. Look at Payet. He is also in the right channel between LB-LCB. So Payet's role must be a support one with move into channels. This time Guendouzi is not on the left half space. He is more central behind two forwards like an AMC. So he is not a MEZ. He roams around on left and central areas. My thoughts are changed about their attacking width. They don't use full width. Only their 2 flank player provides width. Other players closer enough to suit on a shorter passing approach. Look at this picture again. The ball is going to RB who is like a RW now. All players except LM/LW are shifting to the right. Same is true for the left flank. When the ball is on the left, all players except RM/RW are shifting to the left. They are close to each other. This helps pressing and passing. This helps isolating opposite flank player too. Very clever team movement.

 

 

IMG_1438.PNG.8aeb115396753f26b8bd7d0de14e6710.PNG

2 seconds later after the last screenshot. Goal is coming. Guendouzi directly running into the box. This run surprised the RB-RCB and gave a chance to Dieng to be one on one with RCB. Yeah, here is the game:

Marseille-Rennes

 

IMG_1439.PNG.9978221dedce049de622b6e30dfbe3ce.PNG

A clear view of attacking positioning.

Edited by zabyl
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@ zabyl great breakdown i watched the game yesterday and it left me very confused the way they transition in shape and movement i was finding it very hard to see a clear shape but  when i paused the game a few times it became clearer they were in a 442 shape when defending, i am really intrigued how you would set up Marseille in fm and what roles you would use. 

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7 saat önce, latrell said:

@ zabyl great breakdown i watched the game yesterday and it left me very confused the way they transition in shape and movement i was finding it very hard to see a clear shape but  when i paused the game a few times it became clearer they were in a 442 shape when defending, i am really intrigued how you would set up Marseille in fm and what roles you would use. 

I only need to experiment my ideas on FM with Marseille. It is easier than before. Because I have a starting point like 4-4-2.

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Here we go @latrell if you are ready!

This is 3-1-6 they played mostly:

3-1-6.png.800993c92ec9d40bcb8b6215624f0529.png

Looks aggressive as expected. 3 at the back. RB pushes forward. DLPs holds his position in the middle of everything. 3 midfielders push forward to their respective attacking positions. Payet as F9 drops to create space for them. Milik lures defenders away. With two strikers' extreme movement, pockets of space can be created as I saw on match engine.

I used PIs for only two players to replicate their movement:

  • CMa Guendouzi / roam from position
  • F9 Payet / roam from position - move into channels

IWBd's positioning is excellent when the team has the ball. He is a little higher compared to other two defenders. With this tempo level, WBs finds enough time to push forward and when he gets forward, RF-RM-RB overloads right flank and DLPs helps possession there too. F9 and CMa's roaming movement helps to overload both flanks and central areas.

 

TEAM INSTRUCTIONS:

175529118_INPOSSESSION.png.7aeaaa739dd360cb2f52613e0238cf06.png

  • Positive mentality is the first choice because of their forward thinking creative attacking play. Lower mentalities slow attacking flow. I like that idea but it doesn't suit to Marseille's play.
  • Shorter passing as I saw their close passing triangles. Sometimes some creative players can take risks to go long or direct so the most suited choice for this is shorter.
  • Be more expressive, because positional play coaches benefit from creative technical players' abilities more. Sampaoli is one of them. So why not?
  • Play out of defence. This is an immutable rule for possession football. Marseille benefits from this to draw opposition.
  • Fairly narrow. As I explained on previous comment, they play a little closer to make passing better and shifting the game to one flank for isolating other flank like Guardiola's overloads on Manchester City.
  • I didn't use a tempo setting because they play some mixed tempo. They increase tempo on some situations, and they decrease too when it is needed. So the best way to replicate this, is not using a tempo TI. Players' decisions decide that. Sometimes they increase, sometimes decrease. I saw what I want on match engine.

 

 

1736450103_INTRANSITION.png.05feefe5756e3f4681f4fd581155f88b.png

  • No need to risk things. Like tempo, it is not necessary to use these TIs. Because they do all of them on different cases. The best way is to adapt mixed options again.
  • Take short kicks as a rule of playing from back. I didn't use a distribution choice for not restricting options.

 

 

1737130817_OUTOFPOSSESSION.png.a0ff6ee71162fe1873964be8609e22ca.png

  • Higher lines for taking control of the game. As expected from possession football.
  • More urgent pressing is the most suited risk/reward choice for possession football. Increasing it can give space easier between pressing lines. Decreasing it can give enough time to opposition to work the ball around. I don't like being too passive or too active. So I take the optimum risky choice for this.
  • Prevent short GK distribution doesn't need an explanation. Attacking football teams use this idea to prevent opponent's short build-up.

 

So this is what I saw from match highlights. And they all make sense when watching these ideas on match engine. Looks like Marseille will be much better. I hope they don't play their best on 30th of September against my favourite club Galatasaray :cool:

Edited by zabyl
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This looks fantastic @zabyl i can not wait to give this a try later really looking forward to seeing how the shape looks in the match engine great work, and its a very tough group Galatasaray are in but you got off to a good start against Lazio they have always been my favourite team in turkey. 

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On 21/09/2021 at 00:13, zabyl said:

Here we go @latrell if you are ready!

This is 3-1-6 they played mostly:

3-1-6.png.800993c92ec9d40bcb8b6215624f0529.png

Looks aggressive as expected. 3 at the back. RB pushes forward. DLPs holds his position in the middle of everything. 3 midfielders push forward to their respective attacking positions. Payet as F9 drops to create space for them. Milik lures defenders away. With two strikers' extreme movement, pockets of space can be created as I saw on match engine.

I used PIs for only two players to replicate their movement:

  • CMa Guendouzi / roam from position
  • F9 Payet / roam from position - move into channels

IWBd's positioning is excellent when the team has the ball. He is a little higher compared to other two defenders. With this tempo level, WBs finds enough time to push forward and when he gets forward, RF-RM-RB overloads right flank and DLPs helps possession there too. F9 and CMa's roaming movement helps to overload both flanks and central areas.

 

TEAM INSTRUCTIONS:

175529118_INPOSSESSION.png.7aeaaa739dd360cb2f52613e0238cf06.png

  • Positive mentality is the first choice because of their forward thinking creative attacking play. Lower mentalities slow attacking flow. I like that idea but it doesn't suit to Marseille's play.
  • Shorter passing as I saw their close passing triangles. Sometimes some creative players can take risks to go long or direct so the most suited choice for this is shorter.
  • Be more expressive, because positional play coaches benefit from creative technical players' abilities more. Sampaoli is one of them. So why not?
  • Play out of defence. This is an immutable rule for possession football. Marseille benefits from this to draw opposition.
  • Fairly narrow. As I explained on previous comment, they play a little closer to make passing better and shifting the game to one flank for isolating other flank like Guardiola's overloads on Manchester City.
  • I didn't use a tempo setting because they play some mixed tempo. They increase tempo on some situations, and they decrease too when it is needed. So the best way to replicate this, is not using a tempo TI. Players' decisions decide that. Sometimes they increase, sometimes decrease. I saw what I want on match engine.

 

 

1736450103_INTRANSITION.png.05feefe5756e3f4681f4fd581155f88b.png

  • No need to risk things. Like tempo, it is not necessary to use these TIs. Because they do all of them on different cases. The best way is to adapt mixed options again.
  • Take short kicks as a rule of playing from back. I didn't use a distribution choice for not restricting options.

 

 

1737130817_OUTOFPOSSESSION.png.a0ff6ee71162fe1873964be8609e22ca.png

  • Higher lines for taking control of the game. As expected from possession football.
  • More urgent pressing is the most suited risk/reward choice for possession football. Increasing it can give space easier between pressing lines. Decreasing it can give enough time to opposition to work the ball around. I don't like being too passive or too active. So I take the optimum risky choice for this.
  • Prevent short GK distribution doesn't need an explanation. Attacking football teams use this idea to prevent opponent's short build-up.

 

So this is what I saw from match highlights. And they all make sense when watching these ideas on match engine. Looks like Marseille will be much better. I hope they don't play their best on 30th of September against my favourite club Galatasaray :cool:

Love it @zabyl! What were your results like?

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1 saat önce, shaneomac said:

Love it @zabyl! What were your results like?

This was only an experiment save with Marseille and worked well because they are one of the top teams in France. They outplayed all teams except PSG because I didn't change anything and used it as plug & play. Deleted that save because that's just a replication experiment. Most assists came from WBs & F9, most goals from AFa and F9, IWa, Wa, CMa contributed to goal numbers really good.The only two thing that created an issue for this tactic are CMa and WBs were tired too early. That is acceptable because they must run back more than others to help defence when the ball is lost.

Edited by zabyl
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I tweaked zabyl's tactic a little bit since I saw that Lirola most of the match against Rennes played as a IWB, and occasionally moves behind Under as can be seen in the highlights. I'm fairly new to this tactic creatino stuff, I don't even know if I'm doing this right.625321513_OlympiquedeMarseille_Overview.png.470360fd4ca0b6668fb8aae3c64ce989.pngsintitulo4.thumb.png.15b4315e5c518541323d39c4b53c2fcc.pngsintitulo3.thumb.png.8064bac82d7f2567e971bb3cd5fb5fa2.png

 

in-game screenshots:

Spoiler

fm

1791636531_FCNantesvOM_Pitch-3.thumb.png.8c1752bcf1203d8f3f31c766e3423790.png339654426_FCNantesvOM_Pitch-2.thumb.png.f7d724a3d60eac4c1a48e301072a4cd4.png1227861677_FCNantesvOM_Pitch.thumb.png.35449c988483e3b5fc9f5da8a86f89f7.png

btw, @zabyl did a great job observing the details of the tactic and implementing them in the game.

Edited by odee
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1 saat önce, odee said:

btw, @zabyl did a great job observing the details of the tactic and implementing them in the game.

Thanks. RB and RM interchange positions on attack. Sometimes Lirola uses half space, sometimes Cengiz. I mostly saw Cengiz runs/cuts inside and Lirola pushes higher to provide width on their attacking shape. So I choose WBs for Lirola and IWa for Cengiz. Your idea is also usable but I suggest Wa for RM. Because WM plays a bit narrow. That role can create width issues on the right.

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