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Return of The Tactics Bible......Maybe.....


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13 hours ago, Anteater said:

What approach do you take with general training Cleon?  Hands on or delegate to assistant manager?  Any pros and cons between the two methods?  Thanks.

I handle it but there's not much difference between the Assistant or yourself doing it. There's no longer a punishment for getting training wrong. The only real difference between you and the assistant is you will likely be more specific. So for me I try and ensure I use lots of stuff that impacts individual training, as that's my primary focus for my players.

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Sorry for sounding desperate but when might the book be out? I've struggled in FM since FM 19. I manage Barcelona in all my saves and even when I build a dream squad, I've NEVER managed to win the champions league. I've read a lot about FM, in articles, Rashidi's videos, his books, even all of your articles, but it seems like the game does not like me at all. I try anything and it just fails and I'm frustrated playing FM now. One game my tactic looks unbeatable but the next game I play a draw with a newly promoted team. One match I beat Real Madrid the next game Real Betis whoops my ass with me having 0 shots on target. Like what is the meta for this game I really don't get it. I honestly found no alternative other than venting out I apologize. Been waiting for your book since November so just wanted to know when it would come out.

- A very frustrated FM player :idiot:

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1 hour ago, singhakshit02 said:

Sorry for sounding desperate but when might the book be out? I've struggled in FM since FM 19. I manage Barcelona in all my saves and even when I build a dream squad, I've NEVER managed to win the champions league. I've read a lot about FM, in articles, Rashidi's videos, his books, even all of your articles, but it seems like the game does not like me at all. I try anything and it just fails and I'm frustrated playing FM now. One game my tactic looks unbeatable but the next game I play a draw with a newly promoted team. One match I beat Real Madrid the next game Real Betis whoops my ass with me having 0 shots on target. Like what is the meta for this game I really don't get it. I honestly found no alternative other than venting out I apologize. Been waiting for your book since November so just wanted to know when it would come out.

- A very frustrated FM player :idiot:

Why not post your tactic and request assistance?

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It's fine. Just wanted to prepare myself mentally. But like by meta I meant is it the use of space? Because if it was that, then in some games we have to a team who's using a mid block with early runs, other times we just have to patiently probe a team that's sitting back, that requires constantly tinkering with the tactic and the tactical familiarity of players suffers then. Also I know one tactic won't cruise through the season but how do I know something needs to change by just looking at the game? Like width for example, is a subtle change but one game I need a narrower width and the other, a wider one (I still fail after changing it btw). It's honestly like I'm doing something fundamentally wrong. So I was thinking the book might have everything condensed into one place and maybe then I'll see what I'm failing to understand, if that makes sense

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2 hours ago, singhakshit02 said:

Because I'm never sticking with one. Changing em after every three bad results :lol:

That is probably the issue. Best bet, learn one system, understand how to pick players for that system. Then learn how to tweak that system. Continually changing systems won’t help you. And going to multiple different sources for information will confuse you. 
 

just take baby steps . And like @Cleonsaid there is no such thing as a meta. Looking for a golden goose won’t help.  Every game is slightly different.

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23 hours ago, Rashidi said:

That is probably the issue. Best bet, learn one system, understand how to pick players for that system. Then learn how to tweak that system. Continually changing systems won’t help you. And going to multiple different sources for information will confuse you. 
 

just take baby steps . And like @Cleonsaid there is no such thing as a meta. Looking for a golden goose won’t help.  Every game is slightly different.

Hm. Understood. I'll just spend a season with one system now and analyze its flaws and pros. Thanks a lot for the tip!

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I'm just writing some stuff up now and was wondering something. When you're analysing the tactic or judging/assessing if something is/isn't working, what do you actually do? What are the things you are looking at.

Equally, what are the things when doing those things, no matter what, you just can't grasp?

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1 hour ago, Cleon said:

I'm just writing some stuff up now and was wondering something. When you're analysing the tactic or judging/assessing if something is/isn't working, what do you actually do? What are the things you are looking at.

Equally, what are the things when doing those things, no matter what, you just can't grasp?

For me I'll watch long minutes in full match just to see what's going on for example I have this problem often that my striker doesn't see much of the ball even if there are enough players around him but still they just don't pass the ball to him. In that kind of senario, I will forst of all see if there are players I can give more direct passing but that doesn't seem to solve it. I could change the role of the striker to be more involved in buldup but then he might not necessarily be in the box to finish the chances so I just lower the LOE so we can win the ball deeper and he has more space to run into.

 

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1 hour ago, Cleon said:

I'm just writing some stuff up now and was wondering something. When you're analysing the tactic or judging/assessing if something is/isn't working, what do you actually do? What are the things you are looking at.

Equally, what are the things when doing those things, no matter what, you just can't grasp?

Generally I'll go to a full match or comprehensive highlights to see how my team are in both transitions. I'll pause and look at players positions and passing options several times during the phase of play.

 

I will see who is providing key passes and who is getting those shots away and from where the shots are taken.

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6 hours ago, Cleon said:

I'm just writing some stuff up now and was wondering something. When you're analysing the tactic or judging/assessing if something is/isn't working, what do you actually do? What are the things you are looking at.

Equally, what are the things when doing those things, no matter what, you just can't grasp?

My biggest issue is spotting if the issue is related to a TI/PI or a role, or a poor player, or just if the player is having an off day.

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6 hours ago, Cleon said:

I'm just writing some stuff up now and was wondering something. When you're analysing the tactic or judging/assessing if something is/isn't working, what do you actually do? What are the things you are looking at.

Equally, what are the things when doing those things, no matter what, you just can't grasp?

When analysing a tactic I like to try to use a mixture of the recent match analysis, looking at stats about how we're scoring/conceding goals and watching matches on comprehensive highlights.

 

I do absolutely struggle with seeing if my team is effectively making and using space against teams, and then how to tweak the tactic to improve what I'm seeing to create higher quality chances.

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6 horas atrás, Cleon disse:

I'm just writing some stuff up now and was wondering something. When you're analysing the tactic or judging/assessing if something is/isn't working, what do you actually do? What are the things you are looking at.

Equally, what are the things when doing those things, no matter what, you just can't grasp?

I guess there's no incorrect answers so, what I usually do is watch full games (2/3) and pause once in a while to see where my players are on the pitch and if it goes by what I want them to do.
And that's also my biggest problem, I can see what I don't like but I'm not always able to fix it.
 

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20 hours ago, Cleon said:

I'm just writing some stuff up now and was wondering something. When you're analysing the tactic or judging/assessing if something is/isn't working, what do you actually do? What are the things you are looking at.

Equally, what are the things when doing those things, no matter what, you just can't grasp?

Watch matches in a lot of detail and solve most issues with a substitute, one or two role duties and tweaks to team instructions. The one area that can cause me issues is when a team is pressing hard and constantly nicking the ball, winning all the second balls and pressuring my team to kick it long back to them and they come on again. Try to get on front foot and use get stuck in which helps at times but not always. 

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Cheers for the answers so far. Any more examples of stuff you struggle with so I can be sure to include something to address the more common ones

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I know my tactic and know where there is space and where there isn't, but I'm not sure how to adjust to make sure I'm exploiting each opponent to the fullest.  Example, I have lots of space down the flanks because the opponent's fullbacks are pushing deep into my half.  How do I adjust on the fly to maximize this?  There are so many factors at play (skill and quality of each team's players. where the support comes from, etc.) that it isn't as simple as changing wingers from S to A or upping my mentality / passing.

My favorite writeups that @Cleon, @Rashidi, etc. have done so far are the in game scenarios where they show how they play and why as a game goes on.  I don't think I'm alone in thinking this way either, but anything helps!

Also a big fan of the "How to build a tactic" articles.  Often times though I find that my team is middle of the road in most if not all team comparison attributes - in this case, how do you pick a playing style?  Ideally I want to build my own unique tactic and evolve it over time as my squad becomes stronger - maybe an idea for a series?

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I have trouble connecting attributes to playing styles. I have my playing style and know what I need but the other way around is difficult. Just like the post above me I don't really know where to go from a given squad. 

I can figure out what type of roles I can play but not if I can play gegenpress, camping, tiki taka. So I usually go to my scout the world approach and simply buy (potentially) better players then I have. 

In game I simply put your advice to practice. Watch a couple of full games to see if I get what I want, then adjust a little if needed. Furthermore I watch all games in comprehensive (the one before full match) so if I see that opportunities arise I play to that or I counter a threat. And defensively that comes down to controlling space where I give away to much or putting someone with more bite in a place where I'm being run over. On other side I do the same but rather I attack space or put someone on with a specific skill set. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
59 minutes ago, Hovis Dexter said:

Not sure that there is any point in chasing. When it’s published it’s published.

Not sure that there is any point in reprimanding people for asking. 

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2 hours ago, Br3nB said:

Any updates on a potential release @Cleon ?

Obviously no rush, just one of a huge amount of excited people!

The answer to the question is slightly further up this page.

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  • 1 month later...
On 16/03/2022 at 07:52, Cleon said:

So the plan is to release the first book by the end of next month. I'm sure you all remember The Art of Possession stuff I did before? Well the first book will be this. Everything written is all new, different team, different formation and tactic I use and it's about 100% more in-depth. So its not just rehashed stuff you've read before. This is some of the most comprehensive stuff I have ever written.

That's really great news. Really waiting to have this.

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3 hours ago, gpassosbh said:

Hello @Cleon Any chance for an earlier release? Maybe a beta release? Or just next month? Not pressing you, just to know....

What would the point in that be? Gives me less time to finish it off and get it checked over several more times.

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On 16/03/2022 at 10:52, Cleon said:

Sorry for the lack of updates as I've been busy splitting the content up and putting them in themed books and writing stuff. Also had to create some new saves and play games to get the new content I needed. Splitting the content up and having each book be about a different subject is definitely more user friendly and better overall.

So the plan is to release the first book by the end of next month. I'm sure you all remember The Art of Possession stuff I did before? Well the first book will be this. Everything written is all new, different team, different formation and tactic I use and it's about 100% more in-depth. So its not just rehashed stuff you've read before. This is some of the most comprehensive stuff I have ever written.

Excellent - I still try and use a lot of the principles from that thread if I'm looking to increase my possession stats, but with the TC changing, it's very much my interpretation of what some of those have become.   It will be good to see an update.

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hi guys, not sure if this the right thread but Cleon is famous so i'll ask here. I could swear ive read on this forum that the basic formation you use (442.4231 )etc will be players default defensive position on the pitch.  and the roles you select determine his attacking position. is this true or have i dreamt this ? cheers

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Em 22/03/2022 em 11:02, Taipan disse:

Cleon, please do a George Martin and take as long as you god damn like. This instant gratification world we live in these days really really peeves me...

 

Although that's cute and all, we are near April. I don't know if you know, that makes 6/7 months this thread is up. 

I think it's great what Cleon is doing (even more impressive if he's doing it for free) and it's not my goal to pressure nobody. I also think he's obviously in the right to take as much time he wants to do the book. The thing is, it's normal people wanting to get their hands on this. Hell, I'm one of those people and I think I don't even need it that much. People are expectant to get this and can you blame them? They are waiting for months.

No need to act like a snob.

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19 hours ago, zstealthbadger said:

hi guys, not sure if this the right thread but Cleon is famous so i'll ask here. I could swear ive read on this forum that the basic formation you use (442.4231 )etc will be players default defensive position on the pitch.  and the roles you select determine his attacking position. is this true or have i dreamt this ? cheers

This is true. 

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22 hours ago, Razor940 said:

Although that's cute and all, we are near April. I don't know if you know, that makes 6/7 months this thread is up. 

I think it's great what Cleon is doing (even more impressive if he's doing it for free) and it's not my goal to pressure nobody. I also think he's obviously in the right to take as much time he wants to do the book. The thing is, it's normal people wanting to get their hands on this. Hell, I'm one of those people and I think I don't even need it that much. People are expectant to get this and can you blame them? They are waiting for months.

No need to act like a snob.

Out of curiosity. How long do you think a book takes to get made - from start to finish? With original drafts, proof reading, etc all involved? 

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il y a 12 minutes, Generation-Next a dit :

Out of curiosity. How long do you think a book takes to get made - from start to finish? With original drafts, proof reading, etc all involved? 

Lol... But Razor is right. It's just for a game... Nobody asks for it. If you want to offer something to the community, just do it. 

It's not because you're open 10,000 threads that you're more legitimate. I play this game since 1997. I learn every day with people who wants to share or discuss. 

With all my respect, of course. 

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I think it’s fantastic what Cleon is doing and what he does for the FM Community, maybe he did go a little early opening the thread but let’s be patient, I’m sure it will be worth the wait.

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On 07/09/2021 at 17:41, Cleon said:

Introduction

 

Hello good people!! Long time no see eh?! 

I wouldn’t call this a return as such, more I was bored and thought I’d write a massive project for all you beautiful people. I’ve been kind of shut off from the FM Community for quite some time now but I’ve still read the odd article here and there and visited the forum and looked around. It seems that nothing has changed much. Some people are still struggling with tactics and creating or maintaining them. So I thought why not write something but start at the very beginning.

Over the years I’ve written about creating a tactic and all the various ways this can be achieved. I want to revisit some of the old stuff and rewrite/update it. My idea is to combine all the relevant topics I've done in the past and make a really in depth series which focuses on every single aspect of tactical creation. Many years ago myself, Buxton, SFrazer, WWFan, Millie and many more had the idea of creating a tactics bible, which we did in some form. I don’t believe the pieces we did still exist, so this is an extension of this and almost like a Wiki.

This is a giant task though and will likely take a long time for it to be complete. Some of the stuff I’ve written needs a complete rewrite and others just little changes. I think this would become an invaluable resource for the FM community. I will only release pieces though when I am 75% done with the project and know it will be completed. If I was to guess at what percentage is currently completed I’d say it was around 50% ish.

There are all the parts currently completed. This isn’t the order they’ll be in though as there will be lots more added and depending on where I think the pieces fit, will dramatically change the order.

 

  • Before we start
  • Idea
  • Design based on player attributes
  • Real life example
  • None real life example
  • Translating to FM
  • Seeing if it works
  • Modifying it
  • Maintaining it

 

That's a snippet of how the first article starts. But my main reason for posting is because I want ideas from you before I start doing more stuff. I don't want ideas about topics to cover or what subjects to write about. What I need is for you to post below and in a few short words, explain what aspects of creating a tactic you struggle with. That way I can make sure its comprehensive and represents every single aspect I can think of, if I haven't already.

So if you struggle with deciding how to play, I want to know what it is that you struggle with specifically about that. Is it that you have too many ideas in your head or maybe no ideas at all. You might be flustered with all the options you have available and so on.

The feedback doesn't have to be strictly about the tactic itself, I'm ideally looking for 'steps' you struggle with instead if that makes sense. As I want this project to be a step by step process without skipping a single step. This makes the project complicated because obviously some steps will have multiple ways of doing things and I want to include everything. So if you have anything you struggle with, please post below.

Cleon stated that this would take a long time and unfortunately life sometimes makes it take longer. He also said that he wanted ideas from people which I assume is the main reason for posting when he did. Just because we want something doesn't mean we can demand it when we want.

 

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1 hora atrás, Generation-Next disse:

Out of curiosity. How long do you think a book takes to get made - from start to finish? With original drafts, proof reading, etc all involved? 

I'm not going to make a guess, because I sincerly don't know, but I think it takes a long time. That was besides my point tho. 

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