Youth Player promotion to Senior Squad/Youth Development

[Patfan1991]

Hello,

Does anyone know if there is any benefit to promoting players (specifically after youth intake, age 16) to the senior squad? Does it provide better competition (All my players are rated with gold stars) for them to develop?

I tend to let players sit in the under 18's until they are 18 since training is usually how young players progress but I'm finding that players who are rated 1 and 1/2 gold starred or 2 starred tend to slow down in their development or tend to hit 6.70 when they were in the green for most of the time. I guess they plateaued? Let me know what you think. 

Also, any tips on maximizing development when they are under 18 would the appreciated. I know the usual tips like upgrade facilities, good coaching staff, mentoring, etc. 

Thanks

[Hovis Dexter]

I read some posts a couple of days ago in, I think, the Quickfire Q & A thread that warned against promoting youth players to the first team. If the first team is involved in a number of competitions and is very often playing more than one match a week the first team players will not be doing a great deal of general training. Therefore, not only will the youth players not be training they will also not be playing very much if at all. It’s, therefore, best to leave them in the youth team where they will be both training and playing at an appropriate level.

[nick1408]

15 hours ago, Hovis Dexter said:

I read some posts a couple of days ago in, I think, the Quickfire Q & A thread that warned against promoting youth players to the first team. If the first team is involved in a number of competitions and is very often playing more than one match a week the first team players will not be doing a great deal of general training. Therefore, not only will the youth players not be training they will also not be playing very much if at all. It’s, therefore, best to leave them in the youth team where they will be both training and playing at an appropriate level.

Makes sense but isn’t there a trade off as you can’t mentor?

[Patfan1991]

16 hours ago, Hovis Dexter said:

I read some posts a couple of days ago in, I think, the Quickfire Q & A thread that warned against promoting youth players to the first team. If the first team is involved in a number of competitions and is very often playing more than one match a week the first team players will not be doing a great deal of general training. Therefore, not only will the youth players not be training they will also not be playing very much if at all. It’s, therefore, best to leave them in the youth team where they will be both training and playing at an appropriate level.

That makes sense

 

Thank you

[Hovis Dexter]

8 hours ago, nick1408 said:

Makes sense but isn’t there a trade off as you can’t mentor?

Certainly that is trade off but I’m not sure that it’s such a big loss. After all mentoring is such a slow and uncertain process it’s not the same as the old tutoring system which was  relatively quick and was almost always guaranteed to work.

[herne79]

8 hours ago, nick1408 said:

Makes sense but isn’t there a trade off as you can’t mentor?

You can mentor.  You can set up mentoring groups within your youth squads.  It may not be as effective as having a mentoring group with a highly influential senior squad member, but you can still see some results.  I have mentoring groups in my youth teams where I've picked a young player or two with high determination paired with young players with low determination and I see some positive increases.  The movement may not be massive, but it's something at least.  That way they get a bit of a kick start for a year or two before being moved (if good enough) into my senior squad.

Try to pick young players with decent Determination / personalities who, when placed into a mentoring group with other youngsters, have a better influence than the others.  It tells you what their expected influence is when you set up a group.  Keep an eye on things and rejig or disband the group if it doesn't work out.  Such players tend to be a year or two older, so I try to pair 17 year olds who have higher Determination with 15/16 year olds who have lower Determination for example.  Or 21 year olds with 17/18/19 year olds (if in my U23s squad).  It won't always work but it's something at least .

[Patfan1991]

8 hours ago, herne79 said:

You can mentor.  You can set up mentoring groups within your youth squads.  It may not be as effective as having a mentoring group with a highly influential senior squad member, but you can still see some results.  I have mentoring groups in my youth teams where I've picked a young player or two with high determination paired with young players with low determination and I see some positive increases.  The movement may not be massive, but it's something at least.  That way they get a bit of a kick start for a year or two before being moved (if good enough) into my senior squad.

Try to pick young players with decent Determination / personalities who, when placed into a mentoring group with other youngsters, have a better influence than the others.  It tells you what their expected influence is when you set up a group.  Keep an eye on things and rejig or disband the group if it doesn't work out.  Such players tend to be a year or two older, so I try to pair 17 year olds who have higher Determination with 15/16 year olds who have lower Determination for example.  Or 21 year olds with 17/18/19 year olds (if in my U23s squad).  It won't always work but it's something at least .

I was not doing that before but I think I'll do that now.

 

Thanks

[Djeon36]

Just wondering if you promote your youth player into your senior squad, do they get train with the senior team using the senior team training regiments, and being trained under senior team coaches?

[Hovis Dexter]

2 hours ago, Djeon36 said:

Just wondering if you promote your youth player into your senior squad, do they get train with the senior team using the senior team training regiments, and being trained under senior team coaches?

Correct

[Piperita]

A lot depends on your youth philosophy and setup. For me my top talents I intend to use only stay in my youth team for 14-18 months, those I can get real good money for for 18-22 months. My guideline essentially is at the start of the season: 'If they turn 18 during the winter break, future stars get called up. Squad players and money.makers when they do turn 18'

This is mainly for four reasons: 

1) I have two training weeks on schedule: One for individual roles, one for my playing style. In my youth team the ratio is around 3:1, meaning my youth players get rather unevenly trained but on the flipside get rather strong one-trick-pony skills fast. On my main team the ratio is more 2:2. In rare weeks off, the youth gets physicals and tacticals shoved down their throats, the main team get more demanding playing style lessons. On top of that, when the main team has midweek-fixtures, the match-prep also is individual training and the full weeks are playing style. 

2) I have an absolutely insane HoYD. The last three seasons I got 4 Model Citizens, 2 players only missing out narrowly due to "just" having normal amounts of Determination and one world class talent. Meaning my youth teams needs some reshuffling pretty often. 

3) I have rather small squads. 15-18 is my norm with youth players filling the rest of the positions. Which naturally results in them getting a fair amount of playing time, early partnerships and early integration.

4) At least in maxed out youth setups and in Germany, the youth players grow too fast for their league. With good tactics even average 3rd league prospects result in hilariously lopsided league tables. Lower second leaguers are already essentially just playing friendlies. Keeping prospects longer? They are good second to average first leaguers after two years at most! If their spread is good, they get more from first team games. If not, a few random continental games and their market value skyrockets for the AI managers who focus too much on reputation and hopes and dreams. 

[glengarry224]

On 29/08/2021 at 05:46, Djeon36 said:

Just wondering if you promote your youth player into your senior squad, do they get train with the senior team using the senior team training regiments, and being trained under senior team coaches?

Yes and much standard advice was to promote your better youth player to Senior level but make him available for youth squad matches.  But, as someone wrote above, there is a trade-off.   

Potential benefits:  youth player trains with better coaches and senior teammates, plus can be mentored by senior players

Disadvantage:  unless the youth squad matches are on the same days as senior squad matches, he will miss out on a lot of development training because for example: 

1. youth squad plays Thursday, so he misses senior Thursday training (maybe also Wednesday for travel);
2. then he recovers from the match on Friday and misses that day of Senior training;
3. then on Saturday, the Senior squad prepares for their Sunday match and there is not much actual training for him that day;
4. then the Senior squad plays Sunday....

[lfds89]

Em 29/08/2021 em 13:46, Djeon36 disse:

Just wondering if you promote your youth player into your senior squad, do they get train with the senior team using the senior team training regiments, and being trained under senior team coaches?

You can also set them to train with the senior squad without promoting them.

[Djeon36]

6 hours ago, lfds89 said:

You can also set them to train with the senior squad without promoting them.

Is this usually a better plan than just letting them sit on the first team bench and then letting them play on the youth team?

[lfds89]

Em 31/08/2021 em 05:26, Djeon36 disse:

Is this usually a better plan than just letting them sit on the first team bench and then letting them play on the youth team?

Don't know. Maybe someone has already tested the different approaches. I usually go for the same strategy: promote the best youth player so he can train and be on a mentoring group (if needed) and set him as available to play for the youth squad. If I get a chance to play him on a cup game or on the final league games, I will.

[Rashidi]

15 hours ago, lfds89 said:

Don't know. Maybe someone has already tested the different approaches. I usually go for the same strategy: promote the best youth player so he can train and be on a mentoring group (if needed) and set him as available to play for the youth squad. If I get a chance to play him on a cup game or on the final league games, I will.

That’s exactly what I recommend and do myself.  Only difference is he’s actually brought on for something like a total time of around 4 games a season, appearing for around 15-45 mins.  The rest of the time he is made available for the youth teams

[crpcarrot]

playing in VRN lower league i ahve only two youth coaches who are not that great anyways. so being in the senior squad gives them access to more and higher level coaches. is it better to promote in this situation?