Too old for new job? Or something else?

[Tonesta78]

Hi all - long time lurker, first time poster. But I've not been able to find an answer to this question/issue by searching.......

 

I've been running a long 'semi-journeyman' save on FM21. The year is now 2050. I did seven years at my hometown club Oxford Utd (taking them from League One to the Europa League); then ten years at Halesowen Town (taking them from Blue Square South to the Championship playoffs); then twelve years at Piacenza (taking them from the Serie C relegation zone to the Serie A title). I tend to like long rebuilding jobs - but once I grow the club to a certain size, I lose interest and move on. But I also like to keep the same save going because it's my FM universe with its own unique thirty years of history.

I also managed at international level for Iceland (went great), Portugal (went OK) and England (was a disaster and got sacked within a year!)

 

So I want to move on now and start a new project. Ideally, I was thinking Iceland because it's a bit different, because I have a great reputation there from my days managing the national team, and because I'm fluent in the language (in the game, not real life!).

 

The problem is that I can't seem to get a job. Five Icelandic jobs came up during their off-season - but having resigned from my previous post, my application to all of them was unsuccesful. So I thought 'Fair Enough, Iceland doesn't want me, I'll try somewhere else'. I've since unsuccesfully applied for about 15-20 other jobs in the Netherlands, Scotland, Slovakia, Romania & Switzerland (I have about a dozen countries loaded). Noone wants me.

 

Every job I apply for grants me an interview. I've tried mixing up my responses (from arrogant, argumentative and asks for the world, to friendly, accommodating and asks for nothing) - makes no difference. Every job, I get the message that I'm the fans' preferred candidate. Every job, I'm the bookie's favourite (once my odds were even as low as 1-48) but every time they go with someone else.

 

With both my previous transitions to Halesowen & Piacenza, I got the first job I applied for. I have a 4* reputation and an amazing track record but it's not doing any good.

The only thing I'm wondering is whether I'm now too old? My manager is 72, so it seems realistic that clubs might think twice about hiring someone that age.....but at the same time I know that you can be a FM21 immortal and manage the same club till you're 300 years old, so I didn't think that ageism was coded into the game?

Is it that, or is there something else I'm doing wrong here?

 

I know that I can just retire, create a new manager and parachute them into the job of my choice. But I'd rather keep my current manager's reputation and relationships if I can, and not break the narrative.

What is certain, after six game months, is that FM21 as a failed jobseeker simulator is not as much fun as a football managment simulator!!

 

 

 

[Grifty]

I’m in a similar boat to you in that I’m in 2059, doing a journeyman and wondering what jobs I can get once I leave where I am currently as my manager is also in his 70s…

[Heywood JaBlowme]

I thought there was no "age discrimination" in FM? What about the one FM player from years back that played over 200 years in one save? I forget which edition. Unless he stayed at the same club. 

[Tonesta78]

48 minutes ago, Heywood JaBlowme said:

I thought there was no "age discrimination" in FM? What about the one FM player from years back that played over 200 years in one save? I forget which edition. Unless he stayed at the same club. 

 

I think Padders did 200 years+ in FM20 - but it was all with the same club. So you can be immortal......just as long as you don't try and change clubs!

 

I'm going to try running some more tests, but I don't know what else, other than age, it could be at the moment. Unless all 20+ clubs that I've tried won't hire me because I'm overqualified?

[Heywood JaBlowme]

One of the Devs should be able to answer this on whether you can change clubs or not...

[Tonesta78]

So just to add to my original post, I did a little test this afternoon.

 

I created a new manager, and then had both managers apply for the same job a bunch of times. In each case, I answered the interview questions exactly the same (to the extent I could) between the two managers - basically I was just relentlessly positive and 'Yes sir, thank you sir, whatever you say sir'.

 

So manager #1 was a newly created, 30 year old Icelander with zero previous coaching experience, half a star of reputation, and a regional professional playing career

Manager #2 was my 72 year old, 30 year veteran Englishman, with four stars of reputation and a track record of taking clubs from the bottom to the top.

 

Manager #1 was offered 2/3rds of the jobs she applied for - basically any club with 2.5 stars reputation or less, she got hired. And she also got interview requests from a bunch of clubs that I didn't apply for, and was offered 100% of those jobs as well

Manager #2 got exactly zero offers from the 20+ clubs he applied to, and exactly zero interview requests from those he didn't.

 

So it really does seem that FM21 is applying age discrimination to its job hunting process; I can't think of any other reason why my ageing legend couldn't get a job offer whilst a completely green rookie was swimming in them from exactly the same clubs at exactly the same time.

Which is not exactly unrealistic.....but also not that fun! And inconsistent when you can stay at the same club and manage indefinitely.

 

Which also means that I will be continuing my save in 2051 as Inga Tonisdottir, 30 year old love child of my original manager from his day's running the national team in Reykjavik!

[Brother Ben]

Love that you stick with the same gameworld throughout, I used to do the same but found it hard this time round for some reason.

To answer your question this has to be a bug, I would raise it in the bugs section because even if age is a factor you need to be told that by the game.

[WilsonJuve]

16 hours ago, Tonesta78 said:

So just to add to my original post, I did a little test this afternoon.

 

I created a new manager, and then had both managers apply for the same job a bunch of times. In each case, I answered the interview questions exactly the same (to the extent I could) between the two managers - basically I was just relentlessly positive and 'Yes sir, thank you sir, whatever you say sir'.

So it really does seem that FM21 is applying age discrimination to its job hunting process; I can't think of any other reason why my ageing legend couldn't get a job offer whilst a completely green rookie was swimming in them from exactly the same clubs at exactly the same time.

Which is not exactly unrealistic.....but also not that fun! And inconsistent when you can stay at the same club and manage indefinitely.

I’m just wondering if your 72 year old manager is now far too experienced for lower league clubs being interested in you. Even though your applying for the job the game will presume that it’s gonna cost them a lot more than they are willing to pay you simply because of your reputation and standing in the game. I have had my manager who is only in his late 30s been turned down by some terrible clubs before like league 2 in England but then get offered the Napoli job. Even though I want the move they can’t see a way it would work out financially similar in a way to Messi in real life. A whole lot of clubs would have wanted him but nobody showed interest apart from PSG because the others assumed the finances wouldn’t work out for them. 

[Tonesta78]

9 hours ago, WilsonJuve said:

I’m just wondering if your 72 year old manager is now far too experienced for lower league clubs being interested in you. Even though your applying for the job the game will presume that it’s gonna cost them a lot more than they are willing to pay you simply because of your reputation and standing in the game. I have had my manager who is only in his late 30s been turned down by some terrible clubs before like league 2 in England but then get offered the Napoli job. Even though I want the move they can’t see a way it would work out financially similar in a way to Messi in real life. A whole lot of clubs would have wanted him but nobody showed interest apart from PSG because the others assumed the finances wouldn’t work out for them. 

I did wonder about that (which in itself would be a little frustrating, if the game is telling you that you can only manage massive clubs from now on!).....

......didn't test it all that extensively, but I did apply for jobs at Napoli, Ajax, Fiorentina & Grasshoppers (all of whom are 4*+ reputation in my world in 2050) with my 72 year old (didn't bother with the 30 year old, because she wouldn't or at least shouldn't be getting those jobs yet). He didn't get offered any of those either....... 

[phd_angel]

On 19/08/2021 at 21:04, Tonesta78 said:

So just to add to my original post, I did a little test this afternoon.

 

I created a new manager, and then had both managers apply for the same job a bunch of times. In each case, I answered the interview questions exactly the same (to the extent I could) between the two managers - basically I was just relentlessly positive and 'Yes sir, thank you sir, whatever you say sir'.

 

So manager #1 was a newly created, 30 year old Icelander with zero previous coaching experience, half a star of reputation, and a regional professional playing career

Manager #2 was my 72 year old, 30 year veteran Englishman, with four stars of reputation and a track record of taking clubs from the bottom to the top.

 

Manager #1 was offered 2/3rds of the jobs she applied for - basically any club with 2.5 stars reputation or less, she got hired. And she also got interview requests from a bunch of clubs that I didn't apply for, and was offered 100% of those jobs as well

Manager #2 got exactly zero offers from the 20+ clubs he applied to, and exactly zero interview requests from those he didn't.

 

So it really does seem that FM21 is applying age discrimination to its job hunting process; I can't think of any other reason why my ageing legend couldn't get a job offer whilst a completely green rookie was swimming in them from exactly the same clubs at exactly the same time.

Which is not exactly unrealistic.....but also not that fun! And inconsistent when you can stay at the same club and manage indefinitely.

 

Which also means that I will be continuing my save in 2051 as Inga Tonisdottir, 30 year old love child of my original manager from his day's running the national team in Reykjavik!

Great test with a concerning finding, as FM team likes to be politically correct. Not sure if this should be in the bugs forum, but moderators should take a look on this game aspect. Maybe @Neil Brock can help us?... Thank you.

[Neil Brock]

Would ideally need the save game from the test or any of the journeyman saves in order to analyse what's going on here. Details on how to upload the saves here - https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/538431-how-to-upload-files-to-us/

Remember if you do to let us know the file name (and ideally tag me so I can see). Thanks. 

[rsihn]

Bringing this thread back from the dead as I'm having a similar problem in my long term FM21 save (currently in 2061).  I resigned from Swansea after 14 years there and have been unable to get hired for another job for 6+ months and 50+ job interviews, including teams as lowly as the Welsh 2nd division.  My manager is 67 years old.   I am frequently touted as the leading candidate but it always goes to someone else. 

One of the hilarious things is that every interview mentions how I've applied to a lot of jobs while I was currently employed.  This happened 35 years ago in game while managing in the N. Irish 3rd division.  Amazing the level of background checks with every club somehow able to access this information from semi-pro and amateur clubs they've likely never even heard of and that they've been storing this info for 30+ years. 

[rsihn]

Update:  Finally got hired nearly 8 months later by S.D. Logrones, a newly promoted team to the Spanish 4th division.  Went from finishing 2nd in the EPL and UCL quarter-finals the year before to only being able to get hired by a 4th tier Spanish team after a ridiculous amount of interviews.  Never had anything happen like this in game in all of my time playing, even when starting out with no badges or experience.  I even got laughed at by the NYCFC supporter's group when I declared interest in taking the job there.