Help Me Play Like Spain in Euro 2020 (4141)

[Jack722]

Hi everyone,

During the Euros, I saw a few Spain games, and the way they played caught my eye. I thought I knew exactly what they were doing, and started up a quick FM touch save to try and replicate the tactic, but I've had some pretty shocking and inconsistent results.

Sadly I'm far too stubborn to just let it go so easily, and I've spent more time than I'm willing to admit simming through seasons and watching games to try and get it right. hopefully some of you can help me do this correctly so that I can finally move on . I'll put some images below to show you what I'm trying to achieve.

Buildup

• Full backs stay deep to assist
• DM doesn't come very deep to collect the ball, instead offering himself for a vertical pass

Attacking

• Wingers provide width
• 2 CM's move up to support the striker, like free 8's or two number 10's
• DM steps up into midfield line to allow the other midfielders to get forward

Extra

 

In FM

I haven't got a set tactic for this, as I've been tweaking things quite a bit. I've tried most striker roles, as well as wide midfielders, and changing the MEZ's to CM(a)'s . But nothing has looked convincing so far. Although, this is what I started with based on what I saw:

 

I genuinely think the shape that it creates is good, and even watching the games, I can't see any obvious errors, it just seems that we're giving the ball away far too cheaply, while simultaneously lacking any threats or creativity. Both are very unlike the players in this Man City side.

 

Any Ideas?

[NotSoSpecialOne]

Can't help but feel you lack attacking penetration on the left half of the pitch.

If the wingers are intended to be primarily a support and the free 8s the goalscoring threats (alongside the striker of course) then you might consider changing the Mez(Su). Doesn't have to necessarily be a Mez(Atk) like the right hand side, a CM(Atk) with Roam From Position + Moves Into Channels is a nice alternative. A CF(Atk) likes to drop and get involved in the build up, so he needs players that'll go beyond and into the box.

[Hilly1979]

Roles and duties look ok but not sure about all the team instructions, what made you choose all those?

[Jack722]

52 minutes ago, Hilly1979 said:

Roles and duties look ok but not sure about all the team instructions, what made you choose all those?

good question.

Not much reason really. What's most important to me is being able to create a reliable 4141/451 similar to how Spain set up (wingers hugging the touchline, free 8's moving forward). So I'm not too bothered about 100% replicating everything Spain did.

However, they're really not that complicated, all it is really is a standard high press + keeping the ball on the ground and playing through the lines.. All things that I felt Spain were doing, as well as things that Man City players should be good at.

[Hilly1979]

4 minutes ago, Jack722 said:

good question.

Not much reason really. What's most important to me is being able to create a reliable 4141/451 similar to how Spain set up (wingers hugging the touchline, free 8's moving forward). So I'm not too bothered about 100% replicating everything Spain did.

However, they're really not that complicated, all it is really is a standard high press + keeping the ball on the ground and playing through the lines.. All things that I felt Spain were doing, as well as things that Man City players should be good at.

Just a fair amount of overkill to me, your already playing on positive and adding to that higher defensive line, higher line of engagement and offside trap makes it a very attacking and aggressive tactic.

I don’t recall Spain ever being overly attacking and aggressive going forward given the dull draws at the start of the tournament.

I would look to tone down a lot of those instructions given the positive mentality.

A decent balanced tactic shouldn’t need 11 additional team instructions.

That would be my starting point anyway, most attempts at tactical recreation can be done via appropriate roles and duties.

[jeerinho]

Wingers that stay high and wide? Midfielders that move into channels? This thread might be of interest to you. Some tweaking will be needed since Spain don't have the same fullbacks configuration as Man City.

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by jeerinho

[jeerinho]

From my experience, MEZ(s) will lurk outside the box and only go in to receive a low cross or loose ball. This is despite overridding him to get further forward.

MEZ(a) will sneak through the channels and get into the box quite early. Unfortunately, he has to try risky passes often and that is something you can't remove.

I would go with MEZ(a). When the strikers and wingers are off form, at least you can rely on him to score goals.

[poobington]

the positive mentality will mean your players take more risk and hence might lose the ball. Why not try bringing the mentality down to balanced and see if that improves your ball retention?

[Hilly1979]

1 hour ago, poobington said:

the positive mentality will mean your players take more risk and hence might lose the ball. Why not try bringing the mentality down to balanced and see if that improves your ball retention?

Agree with this, plus add the aggressive team instructions into the mix and makes it even more risky

[interesti88]

Been trying to find a true 4-5-1/4-1-4-1 formation, if you get it working please update, I would like to take a look at it.

[Jack722]

Thanks lads for some of the suggestions.

9 hours ago, interesti88 said:

Been trying to find a true 4-5-1/4-1-4-1 formation, if you get it working please update, I would like to take a look at it.

Sadly have still be unable to so far. However I found this really good post when searching about 4141, if you're interested. 

 

[interesti88]

Thanks for the link.

What are you trying to do with your midfield? I want to play with a midfield triangle with a playmaker, a B2B and a defensive mid. I've settled on a combination of a RPM + B2B and a HB in the DM strata position, it's very steady.

[Jack722]

3 minutes ago, interesti88 said:

Thanks for the link.

What are you trying to do with your midfield? I want to play with a midfield triangle with a playmaker, a B2B and a defensive mid. I've settled on a combination of a RPM + B2B and a HB in the DM strata position, it's very steady.

One of the main reasons I wanted to get a 4141 working was that it should theoretically be the best formation to use 'free 8's', since that this formation uses wingers and therefore the fullbacks can stay back more and not need cover from the midfield.

So basically a DM, and two more attacking roles in CM. (MEZ, AP etc..). What's interesting is that the link I shared only had one CM attacking, and the other was a bit more conservative, which is something I'll try next.

[camoulton21]

I'll leave a few of my thoughts on your tactic below. I enjoyed watching Spain throughout the Euros as well, their possession heavy style may not be everyone's cup of tea but I personally enjoy watching the technical ability required throughout the team to circulate possession especially under pressure.

• I think that the wingers could be moved into the wide forward position rather than the wide midfield position to stretch the opposition back line better
• For the free 8 position any midfield role with "roam from position" could work fine
  • I think that Pedri's role changed throughout the tournament starting off as more of a Mezzala and evolving to a Roaming Playmaker
  • Koke was more of a B2B looking to arrive to score goals
• Busquets is especially good at playing between the oppositions forward and midfield lines so I wouldn't use a Half Back role. His forward passing to break the lines is also a major strength so I would make sure that the DMs individual mentality doesn't drop too low so that he remains adventurous enough.
• I think you've got the fullbacks correct enough although Alba's pace and movement in attack was a major source of penetration for Spain so the LB in your tactic may need a more aggressive role

[Jack722]

17 hours ago, camoulton21 said:

I'll leave a few of my thoughts on your tactic below. I enjoyed watching Spain throughout the Euros as well, their possession heavy style may not be everyone's cup of tea but I personally enjoy watching the technical ability required throughout the team to circulate possession especially under pressure.

• I think that the wingers could be moved into the wide forward position rather than the wide midfield position to stretch the opposition back line better
• For the free 8 position any midfield role with "roam from position" could work fine
  • I think that Pedri's role changed throughout the tournament starting off as more of a Mezzala and evolving to a Roaming Playmaker
  • Koke was more of a B2B looking to arrive to score goals
• Busquets is especially good at playing between the oppositions forward and midfield lines so I wouldn't use a Half Back role. His forward passing to break the lines is also a major strength so I would make sure that the DMs individual mentality doesn't drop too low so that he remains adventurous enough.
• I think you've got the fullbacks correct enough although Alba's pace and movement in attack was a major source of penetration for Spain so the LB in your tactic may need a more aggressive role

I agree with eveything you said about Spain irl.

But to do with the part about the wingers. I think in FM terms it has to be a 4141. Basically in the engine, anyone placed as a wide forward (such as 433) comes narrow in the final third, whereas in a 4141, the wingers play more like traditional 442 wingers who hug the touchline better. So playing a 433 in FM naturally forces the wingbacks to push up, and then reduces the freedom of the CM's, since they both have to cover for more attacking wingbacks, and the narrow forwards take up positions in the half space anyway, which is where the CM's would have pushed up into.