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How we're introducing women's football into Football Manager


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How will this affect game performance?

Will it be like turning on / off different leagues and choosing the level of detail? There'll be a lot of players in the database that you can't use at your club so will just be taking up space, right?

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22 minutes ago, drtrick said:

How will this affect game performance?

Will it be like turning on / off different leagues and choosing the level of detail? There'll be a lot of players in the database that you can't use at your club so will just be taking up space, right?

Obviously there's still lots to be decided in how exactly everything will work, but you'll still have the option to create a game to suit your playing needs. Much like how you can select certain leagues and customise in terms of database size and what's included at game start. 

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How will the editor work for this? Will the women's leagues be in their own category to select or will it fall under the nation they are based in?

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11 minutes ago, dmurph said:

How will the editor work for this? Will the women's leagues be in their own category to select or will it fall under the nation they are based in?

As said in the blog, there's still a lot of work to do so it's too soon to be commenting on those kinds of specifics. 

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I'm really pleased! It's an expansion of leagues, which is always welcome and it's another way of playing the game and making a career.  Prepare however for the pointless defensiveness and mock outrage of some.

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I'm so happy. I've been wanting this for a long time now. FM, to me, is a narrative based game. Imagine a successful manager, after wining a world cup, saying "ok, i've done it all with men, let's start anew in women's league" Or vice-versa. This is fantastic.

 

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I, for one, am extremely excited about this. Gonna make for a heck of a role playing journeyWOman save. Start as a woman manager, without any experience or badges and work your way in the women's world and then take the plunge in the men's world. The unthinkable! A woman who is conquering the male's world! In football nonetheless! Will we get an opportunity from a big name? Or will we have to go down into the dirt of Italian football to get a glimpse of men's professional football management scene? Definitely gonna be the only long term save when it comes out.

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33 minuti fa, -Jef- ha scritto:

I, for one, am extremely excited about this. Gonna make for a heck of a role playing journeyWOman save. Start as a woman manager, without any experience or badges and work your way in the women's world and then take the plunge in the men's world. The unthinkable! A woman who is conquering the male's world! In football nonetheless! Will we get an opportunity from a big name? Or will we have to go down into the dirt of Italian football to get a glimpse of men's professional football management scene? Definitely gonna be the only long term save when it comes out.

You can create a female profile since quite some time I think.

Edit: @themadsheep2001 thanks for cleaning up :thup:

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Just now, themadsheep2001 said:

People will have their different views and that's fine, but regardless of how people feel about the feature, we absolutely do not tolerate sexist, or other discriminatory/derogative posts. Most people have been respectful either way, and that's great and very much appreciated, but a few you apparently need reminding to be decent human beings. People not being able to abide by the house rules on decency will find their ability to post, or if necessary, their ability to be a member of this forum, removed.

Are you referring to my question? I see it has been deleted. Didn't think it was that inappropriate. Apologies if it offended anyone.

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45 minutes ago, Federico said:

You can create a female profile since quite some time I think.

Edit: @themadsheep2001 thanks for cleaning up :thup:

Yes, I am aware of that but the story of being a basically woman Sarri and then moving to male dominated spectrum of football is not something we can do. To conquer female world and then a male one. Think you misunderstood me.

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Looking forward to it, anything that brings more immersive football is a winner for me. Aren't many other features that I'm particularly interested in, so working toward a major project like this while doing quality of life improvements to existing feature sets is always a win in my book

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The womans version of FM should be a stand alone. The way its being planned now, the sunken costs will be passed on to the traditional FM fans and either there will be fewer developers to work on the original game or they will increase the price. As a stand alone the game would be able to grow organically and separately from the main game and the losses can be written off.

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4 ore fa, -Jef- ha scritto:

Yes, I am aware of that but the story of being a basically woman Sarri and then moving to male dominated spectrum of football is not something we can do. To conquer female world and then a male one. Think you misunderstood me.

I truly hope we won't have to load both databases. Especially if one is not even interested on having a look at it, like me in example.

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29 minutes ago, Bababui said:

The womans version of FM should be a stand alone. The way its being planned now, the sunken costs will be passed on to the traditional FM fans and either there will be fewer developers to work on the original game or they will increase the price. As a stand alone the game would be able to grow organically and separately from the main game and the losses can be written off.

Or, they will hire more developers to cover the expansion, and the game will likely be sold at the same costs as usual. Which has been the case for every single time they have expanded into a new area (like when they massively expanded motion capturing for the men's game)

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10 minuti fa, themadsheep2001 ha scritto:

Or, they will hire more developers to cover the expansion, and the game will likely be sold at the same costs as usual. Which has been the case for every single time they have expanded into a new area (like when they massively expanded motion capturing for the men's game)

I think it should be handled and managed separately, as DLC in example. I don't want to download or update more data that I will never use anyway.

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9 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Or, they will hire more developers to cover the expansion, and the game will likely be sold at the same costs as usual. Which has been the case for every single time they have expanded into a new area (like when they massively expanded motion capturing for the men's game)

Maybe, maybe not. The female version of the game will pretty much have to be a separate version because of all the differences in ME, DB and economics. This will make the game a larger download and taxing on people with lesser computers. The only logical reason it is being pasted to the main game is to protect it from current market forces. However, if they are serious about backing it, release it as a stand alone and let it grow slowly on its own merits.

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3 minutes ago, Federico said:

I think it should be handled and managed separately, as DLC in example. I don't want to download or update more data that I will never use anyway.

There will be leagues you never play, that you download anyway. There's absolutely no point worry about size when you wouldn't even know how big it is in relation to the game. Also it's more effort and defeats their point making it DLC

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4 minutes ago, Bababui said:

Maybe, maybe not. The female version of the game will pretty much have to be a separate version because of all the differences in ME, DB and economics. This will make the game a larger download and taxing on people with lesser computers. The only logical reason it is being pasted to the main game is to protect it from current market forces. However, if they are serious about backing it, release it as a stand alone and let it grow slowly on its own merits.

Neil has already made this point, it's also about making a growing area, grow better. You don't do that by isolating it. Again, you have no idea what size that part of the game would be. Much as there are leagues you download as part of the game and never use. The game is already hugely forgiving on computers, way less demanding spec wise than other modern games, so not sure that's a valid argument

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1 minuto fa, themadsheep2001 ha scritto:

There will be leagues you never play, that you download anyway.

I play all the leagues on multiple savegames.

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Just now, themadsheep2001 said:

Neil has already made this point, it's also about making a growing area, grow better. You don't do that by isolating it. Again, you have no idea what size that part of the game would be. Much as there are leagues you download and never use. 

Since animations, database, match engine and economics/where players come from are all different from the current game Im not sure why you would say this. Its a different game.

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2 minutes ago, Bababui said:

Since animations, database, match engine and economics/where players come from are all different from the current game Im not sure why you would say this. Its a different game.

We have no idea what the size is going to look like, so it's a false argument. Either way they have no intention of marketing it as anything other one footballing world, which it is. FM as a game size is relatively small and demand lite. Would say this is one of the weirder reasons for not having it

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Sounds good to me. Personally I think the money should go into making current FM better. But I can understand if you do keeping that philosophy  you keep postponing  Woman's football because FM will never be 'perfect.' Anyway looking forward to Woman's football, but personally I think it will be kind of gimmicky and never be used fully by a huge percentage of the players. Curious what it will do for the new versions of Football Manager. Keep it up!

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1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

We have no idea what the size is going to look like, so it's a false argument. Either way they have no intention of marketing it as anything other one footballing world, which it is. 

It certainly isnt a false argument since the existing framework of the game wont support a female footballing universe. Its one you dont agree with.

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Just now, Bababui said:

It certainly isnt a false argument since the existing framework of the game wont support a female footballing universe. Its one you dont agree with.

It's a false argument because you have no idea how big the new framework will be, we have no idea how much is separate, or crosses from legacy. We only really know what concepts they are aiming for, and even they are evolving. 

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3 minuti fa, themadsheep2001 ha scritto:

But not everyone does. Still data downloaded thats never used. It's not different here. 

But if you say there's already so much unused data we currently have, why increase the amount of these useless data? I'm not against it, but I hope that when it's the day it won't be a mandatory unilateral choice.

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Just now, themadsheep2001 said:

It's a false argument because you have no idea how big the new framework will be, we have no idea how much is separate, or crosses from legacy. We only really know what concepts they are aiming for, and even they are evolving. 

We know because Miles told us. Animations will have to be different, the match engine will have to be different to represent how women play, the DB will have to increase to add all the new players/staff etc. It will be two parallel games.

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Just now, Bababui said:

We know because Miles told us. Animations will have to be different, the match engine will have to be different to represent how women play, the DB will have to increase to add all the new players/staff etc. It will be two parallel games.

Football Manager is 6GB, that is tiny for a game (just looked at GTA 5 with is the game beneath it on my steam, and that is 101Gb). A critique based on (currently unknown) size feels weak

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If the game moves beyond the space you can afford to give up on a hard drive, or it moves beyond a data amount you can download at the levels FM uses then its unfortunate but it was going to happen at some point if you have such low overheads.

Seems weird to worry about this when you use all leagues in the game. That alone uses a whole host of inefficient resources on your computer because you don't actively play in every league at the same time. There are also some arguments to be made that running every league compromises the game a bit because at certain points the transfer system and regen systems are impacted by the overall population. 

When it comes to stuff like the ME, I'm completely taking a stab in the dark but I suspect that through the use of things like .json files the game will source variables for the mens and womens ME. Animation sets are presumably loaded on demand when going into a match, or determining which set should be loaded based on the active league you're participating in. 

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It's worth remembering that there are numerous multi-year development plans in place with FM at any given time. It's highly unusual that SI would announce one this early, but at the same time staff roles need to be recruited for and so it wouldn't be something that could be kept a secret either.

There are some that we probably see being iterated on yearly (animations for example), some that will appear in the months leading up to release when its listed as one of the major features for the game that we haven't heard about before. If there's a new ME at any point in the future it won't have been 9 months work from the last patch of the previous year to the new game, it would be the result of a number of years of development. 

I would also point out that while some are saying it should be a standalone release, that would somewhat provide an easy-out. It would mean that then if its still not commercially viable after arbitrary time period Y development could be culled and it would offer an excuse of "Well we tried, but it didn't work out". Firstly, it would force SI down a more degenerate revenue developing path if they wanted to try and keep it viable for longer. I don't know how other people feel, but I'm rather tired of the games companies who seem to think that any of my disposable income not spent on them is their lost revenue. Secondly, if its something you genuinely believe in you would put it into the main game to expand the game in that direction, and it would highlight it far more as a social issue at that stage if the decision was made to pull the content out. It's a commitment that requires more than just "well it doesn't make enough money" in the future to stop doing. 

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It is clearly worth repeating that whether you agree or disagree with the direction that SI have proposed, the forum rules have to be respected and so any other posts that are personally abusive to any other users or SI staff will be quickly removed and infractions will follow.

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1 hour ago, Bababui said:

Right now in the mens game their is a forgotten continent, a vast black hole stretching from Zimbabwe to the Mediterranean. I wonder why SI doesnt value African football?

When I suggested the womans game as a standalone I wasnt implying that they let it wither and die. Launch the game, let it find its niche and stick with it. The licensing fees should be significantly less so the game could actually be a lot cheaper than the main game.

African club football is sadly a bit of a mess. Even in the highest-profile leagues, there is constant match-fixing, corruption and bizarre rule changes. Add to that it's a nightmare to research, and sadly it probably isn't a priority. There's a reason every remotely decent African footballer leaves the continent ASAP.

Remarkable story of final day match-fixing plot, two intentional own goals and criminal probe - Mirror Online

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3 ore fa, santy001 ha scritto:

If the game moves beyond the space you can afford to give up on a hard drive, or it moves beyond a data amount you can download at the levels FM uses then its unfortunate but it was going to happen at some point if you have such low overheads.

Seems weird to worry about this when you use all leagues in the game. That alone uses a whole host of inefficient resources on your computer because you don't actively play in every league at the same time. There are also some arguments to be made that running every league compromises the game a bit because at certain points the transfer system and regen systems are impacted by the overall population. 

When it comes to stuff like the ME, I'm completely taking a stab in the dark but I suspect that through the use of things like .json files the game will source variables for the mens and womens ME. Animation sets are presumably loaded on demand when going into a match, or determining which set should be loaded based on the active league you're participating in. 

------

It's worth remembering that there are numerous multi-year development plans in place with FM at any given time. It's highly unusual that SI would announce one this early, but at the same time staff roles need to be recruited for and so it wouldn't be something that could be kept a secret either.

There are some that we probably see being iterated on yearly (animations for example), some that will appear in the months leading up to release when its listed as one of the major features for the game that we haven't heard about before. If there's a new ME at any point in the future it won't have been 9 months work from the last patch of the previous year to the new game, it would be the result of a number of years of development. 

I would also point out that while some are saying it should be a standalone release, that would somewhat provide an easy-out. It would mean that then if its still not commercially viable after arbitrary time period Y development could be culled and it would offer an excuse of "Well we tried, but it didn't work out". Firstly, it would force SI down a more degenerate revenue developing path if they wanted to try and keep it viable for longer. I don't know how other people feel, but I'm rather tired of the games companies who seem to think that any of my disposable income not spent on them is their lost revenue. Secondly, if its something you genuinely believe in you would put it into the main game to expand the game in that direction, and it would highlight it far more as a social issue at that stage if the decision was made to pull the content out. It's a commitment that requires more than just "well it doesn't make enough money" in the future to stop doing. 

But if a women database will be included within FM, won't it affect the processing and progression of the game, whatever my initial setup?

Also, if load few Leagues don't expect realistic outputs in terms of reality because of the simulated ME.

But don't play too many or you compromise the market system and transfers.

Is there a correct amount of leagues I can play safely to have a game pretty much realistic?

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@Novem9 SI have a workflow in place for fixing issues and the harsh reality is some will get put back because there isn't enough time or there isn't the ability to fix them (without in turn fixing something else) in a reasonable time frame. Of course you can wonder if it will have an impact but it likely wouldn't for a few reasons that I know of, off the bat.

The staff that work on the interface, probably won't have anything to do in regards to the implementation of womens football until the version of FM it is actually appearing in. 

Data issues, you need to persuade researchers that a change is warranted. If its something opinion based about any individual, then the researcher gets the final word. 

It's hard to know where the dividing lines are as a player of the game, but focus on your concerns and explain what is wrong with them. It may take time but in the end it should be resolved. 

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I would just like to point out for everyone, any aspect about the game you dislike is perfectly valid. State what you dislike and why, that is far and away the most helpful thing you can do about any issue with the game that bothers you. You don't need to try and diagnose it or apply a reason why you think it is that way because then it devalues your own criticism and muddies the waters. Doesn't mean you'll get your way with things, but it can be judged on its own merits then. 

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3 minutes ago, Federico said:

But if a women database will be included within FM, won't it affect the processing and progression of the game, whatever my initial setup?

Also, if load few Leagues don't expect realistic outputs in terms of reality because of the simulated ME.

But don't play too many or you compromise the market system and transfers.

Is there a correct amount of leagues I can play safely to have a game pretty much realistic?

In regards to the first point, I guess it depends on the implementation but I highly doubt you'd be forced to run the womens leagues much in the same way you aren't forced to run the French leagues and so on. 

More generally though, smaller DB's tend to have higher transfer fees & poorer players getting picked up for top teams who then fall by the wayside. Larger DB's tend to have too many players going on frees, lower transfer fees since more options are available. Then other considerations like detail levels come into play and it starts to get real complicated.

It's hard to find a sweet spot, I've seen some threads pop-up about it over time might be worth searching for them. I tend to vary my game setup based upon the league I'm going to be prioritising playing in. 

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8 minuti fa, santy001 ha scritto:

@Novem9 SI have a workflow in place for fixing issues and the harsh reality is some will get put back because there isn't enough time or there isn't the ability to fix them (without in turn fixing something else) in a reasonable time frame. Of course you can wonder if it will have an impact but it likely wouldn't for a few reasons that I know of, off the bat.

Now this should be really stick at the top of every discussion :thup:

1 minuto fa, santy001 ha scritto:

In regards to the first point, I guess it depends on the implementation but I highly doubt you'd be forced to run the womens leagues much in the same way you aren't forced to run the French leagues and so on. 

More generally though, smaller DB's tend to have higher transfer fees & poorer players getting picked up for top teams who then fall by the wayside. Larger DB's tend to have too many players going on frees, lower transfer fees since more options are available. Then other considerations like detail levels come into play and it starts to get real complicated.

I can't really see any problem on having a downloadable women database content, just like what we do with the editor or the resource achiever.

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6 минут назад, santy001 сказал:

Data issues, you need to persuade researchers that a change is warranted. If its something opinion based about any individual, then the researcher gets the final word. 

 

I believe wrong/duplicated home-away kits and new owner wrong parametr 18 (probably it 180, but for now suggar daddy left club quickly second FM lol) is resonable changes which ignored systematically

 

7 минут назад, santy001 сказал:

because there isn't enough time or there isn't the ability to fix them (without in turn fixing something else) in a reasonable time frame.

omg I just wrote that SI have no much time for all issues and you just said the same? Why?

Another answer is in the style of a politician in this forum, just bla bla bla and many likes from other moderators. Only Neil Brock try to answer something specific there are 

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3 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

I believe wrong/duplicated home-away kits and new owner wrong parametr 18 (probably it 180, but for now suggar daddy left club quickly second FM lol) is resonable changes which ignored systematically

 

omg I just wrote that SI have no much time for all issues and you just said the same? Why?

Another answer is in the style of a politician in this forum, just bla bla bla and many likes from other moderators. Only Neil Brock try to answer something specific there are 

He's tried to answer as best he can, there's absolutely no need for you to be so rude and dismissive. If you cannot post respectfully, then please refrain from posting. 

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