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Here it is (for Whufc10000)


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@Whufc10000 @XaW @Svenc

Here you are. This is my base tactic. Tweaking it throughout matches when things aren't going as planned.
Attached is a screenshot of my first and only season in the Norwegian Top Division (so far). I also won the Norwegian Cup. Hard earned victory over Stabæk in ET.
Also attached are all my defeats for that season, as pkm.


50390579_Glimt2033.thumb.jpg.1d62324c645e4cca9ac755e91d211856.jpg

Bodø_Glimt v Fredrikstad.pkm Bodø_Glimt v OFI.pkm Lillestrøm v Bodø_Glimt.pkm Molde v Bodø_Glimt.pkm Start v Bodø_Glimt.pkm

Positive 4-3-3 DM Wide - Base.fmf

Edited by roykela
Forgot the actual tactics
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I'm going to need more information, otherwise you could just turn around and say that I deliberately sabotaged the save.

Is there a particular league you want me to play in? I usually play in the EPL but I'm happy to play elsewhere.

I need to have an idea of the in game tweaks you make for whatever reason(pushing for an equaliser. Protecting a lead etc)

Basically whatever you think that you do that I should do. This way I shouldn't be seeing the things that happen constantly in my game that apparently don't happen in yours.

Like the last match I just played

roykela.png

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1 hour ago, Whufc10000 said:

I'm going to need more information, otherwise you could just turn around and say that I deliberately sabotaged the save.

Is there a particular league you want me to play in? I usually play in the EPL but I'm happy to play elsewhere.

I need to have an idea of the in game tweaks you make for whatever reason(pushing for an equaliser. Protecting a lead etc)

Basically whatever you think that you do that I should do. This way I shouldn't be seeing the things that happen constantly in my game that apparently don't happen in yours.

Like the last match I just played

roykela.png

Post a screen shot of the tactic you used when you had that result and detail what (if anything) you changed during the match.

Whenever you have posted results like this before - and you've posted quite a lot - you have never once posted a screenshot of your system.  Well this is the Tactics forum so if you really do want help then a picture of your tactic and detail of what you changed is required.

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14 hours ago, roykela said:

@Whufc10000 @XaW @Svenc

Here you are. This is my base tactic. Tweaking it throughout matches when things aren't going as planned.
Attached is a screenshot of my first and only season in the Norwegian Top Division (so far). I also won the Norwegian Cup. Hard earned victory over Stabæk in ET.
Also attached are all my defeats for that season, as pkm.


50390579_Glimt2033.thumb.jpg.1d62324c645e4cca9ac755e91d211856.jpg

Bodø_Glimt v Fredrikstad.pkm 196.03 kB · 13 downloads Bodø_Glimt v OFI.pkm 199.71 kB · 9 downloads Lillestrøm v Bodø_Glimt.pkm 192.56 kB · 10 downloads Molde v Bodø_Glimt.pkm 193.71 kB · 10 downloads Start v Bodø_Glimt.pkm 187.03 kB · 12 downloads

Positive 4-3-3 DM Wide - Base.fmf 43.95 kB · 20 downloads



You have your methods of testing. You have tested multiple tactics with the same result.
I, with this tactic, don't see that AI bias.
Use the same methods as you already have.
Only this time you write everything down, step by step, what you are doing. Take screenshots. Save matches. What is your theory? What do you observe? What happens when you do x, y, z etc. What are your conclusions and why.
Do what you have been doing. Just document everything here. Step by step and point by point. Compare it with other tactics you have tested, with screenshots and all that etc.

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On 22/07/2021 at 09:57, herne79 said:

Post a screen shot of the tactic you used when you had that result and detail what (if anything) you changed during the match.

Whenever you have posted results like this before - and you've posted quite a lot - you have never once posted a screenshot of your system.  Well this is the Tactics forum so if you really do want help then a picture of your tactic and detail of what you changed is required.

 

herne79.png

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One thing I'd actually be interested in is the Expected Point Table by the end of the seasons compared to the actual point table.

(Constantly happening and such). The Expected Point table lets one compare actual points taken to what should have been statistically taken going by the xG in matches. In a sense, it's meant to be a measurement how many points were won/lost by luck/bad luck. (xG is supposed to be a measure of chance quality btw --- the CCCs make everything equal, which they have always been far from, which is one reason they've never really worked.) The supposedly biased AI on the occasion underperforms this by ~15 points+  -- I've seen it getting one of the Istanbul clubs relegated that way first season. 


[That aside, I'd have to look at the positioning (not sure about player PPMS and individual player instructions) but in tendency the above tactic  similar to the kind of stuff this an attacking PSG AI played against this Ajaccio player successfully parking the bus against it on FM 2017 (the only thing missing was a winner goal) . Let's Play Football Manager 2017 #18 - Paris Saint-Germain zu Gast! [AC Ajaccio / Deutsch] - YouTube

 

That's not the most recent edition, but in this match, the AI actually created very few quality, as it makes basically all the attacking players push towards the same space with two inside forwardish players cutting inside to occupy a simliar space as the AMC -- and both central midfielders pushing upfield also into the samish kinda space. (That said, 2.05 xG from 23 shots looks about alright, mind, as for the individual match, but then it's impossible to read what was going on from stats -- there is an AI manager on the pitch too.).

4-2-3-1 is a top heavy formation as is, I'd personally actually frequently employed two holding/staying deeper roles in both centre mids positions (not a must). However, this oldie video was meant to illustrate what then happens if the ball actually goes back to them -- every time the two Barca centre mids staying real deep get the ball (Busquets and Mascherano respectively), the opposition is actually forced to push up, opening space between its lines. 

Barcelona 4-0 Cordoba - Match Highlights - YouTube


This is the kind of stuff if you're able to "read" it, where you can gain the biggest edge over the AI, as obviously SI won't be able to code an AI that can "read" matches on a second to second level, as else they wouldn't be making video games but be in another field altogether. :D 

 

 

PS: I've been barely following the tactical community much these days, as I found it provides too much an edge over AI. To me football (management) is about manakers roughly seeing eye to eye as they have the same/similar education. However, links to more recent threads analyzing matches and match decisions were made by players may also prove useful.

Edited by Svenc
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10 minutes ago, Whufc10000 said:

 

herne79.png

It's no wonder you frequently see results such as you posted above if you play like that.

You have 2 pretty aggressive wingbacks (from your chosen mentality, their given roles/duty and telling them to overlap) who'll be pushing forward often without much in the way of midfield cover.  You look to press very high + very aggressively and combine that with telling everyone to mark their opponents tightly along with being happy to let your defenders go to ground when trying to tackle.  One slip or clever opposition movement and you'll be caught flat footed.

In attack you seem to rely on brute force, throwing the entire kitchen sink of Team Instructions (and probably a whole heap of PIs too), trying to force your way through by squeezing 5 players into the centre playing extremely fast, direct football.  There's nothing subtle about it and probably lacks variety too.  Any team worth their salt in defending will shut up shop and catch you on the break because of how high you are pushing.  How exactly do you think your team will "pass into space" when your other tactical settings severely restrict that space?

I'm sure the tactic will sometimes - probably even fairly often - give you results you like from the aforementioned brute force.  But the big risk in playing in that manner is leaving you open to regularly seeing results which you posted above and elsewhere.  That has nothing to do with this AI bias that you believe in and everything to do with your tactic.

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21 hours ago, herne79 said:

It's no wonder you frequently see results such as you posted above if you play like that.

You have 2 pretty aggressive wingbacks (from your chosen mentality, their given roles/duty and telling them to overlap) who'll be pushing forward often without much in the way of midfield cover.  You look to press very high + very aggressively and combine that with telling everyone to mark their opponents tightly along with being happy to let your defenders go to ground when trying to tackle.  One slip or clever opposition movement and you'll be caught flat footed.

In attack you seem to rely on brute force, throwing the entire kitchen sink of Team Instructions (and probably a whole heap of PIs too), trying to force your way through by squeezing 5 players into the centre playing extremely fast, direct football.  There's nothing subtle about it and probably lacks variety too.  Any team worth their salt in defending will shut up shop and catch you on the break because of how high you are pushing.  How exactly do you think your team will "pass into space" when your other tactical settings severely restrict that space?

I'm sure the tactic will sometimes - probably even fairly often - give you results you like from the aforementioned brute force.  But the big risk in playing in that manner is leaving you open to regularly seeing results which you posted above and elsewhere.  That has nothing to do with this AI bias that you believe in and everything to do with your tactic.

No offence, but that's practically word for word what I expected you to say.

That tactic won me the EPL with West Ham first season, but I do understand what you're saying.

Trouble is, I've used literally 100's of tactics with hundreds of different connotation's, but I concede in the same old ways over and over again and most of the goals I concede do not show  as tactic deficiencies.

It can be a run of conceding "freak" goals, last minute penalties when there is no visual of any foul taking place. Wonder goals from distance from players with poor attributes, even when the player is tightly marked and even if he did get a shot off there's no way the ball could have missed my defender on the trajectory it was on.

Players "ghost" through other players, players with no discernable skills or pace defy the laws of physics.

Its a disgrace that customers who come on here to point these things out are treated with disrespect and given abuse, when they speak out about the games blatant and many faults.

I have even spoken to professional coders who have explained that the AI bias is absolutely 100% real, because the AI has been given the information to win(it doesn't learn it as the game goes along) its all to do with what choices WE make and if the AI needs to score 4 goals in injury time then it could if it wanted to, is the easy answer.

Yet we are lambasted for pointing these things out???

Also absolute over the top testing on my part over many releases of FM clearly shows that even any minor amount of tweaking in game or otherwise, has a clear detrimental affect, not only to results on the pitch, but to how long it takes your players to familiarise themselves to your tactic.

But clearly I'm a conspiracy theorist and that's what I'll always be seen as, because what I have to say goes against the narrative, however true any of what I say is.

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Yet more word salad and exaggerations.  How utterly pointless it is trying to offer analysis and advice to you. The cold hard truth is you don't know nearly as much as you believe you do and until you accept that and actually listen you will continue to have these issues.  A poor workman always blames his tools.

@roykela You're wasting your time, good effort though.

@HUNT3R @XaW @themadsheep2001 Probably a good idea to close this thread as this person clearly doesn't want a tactical discussion (or indeed any sort of discussion) but rather just peddle his nonsense.

1.png

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Just now, herne79 said:

Yet more word salad and exaggerations.  How utterly pointless it is trying to offer analysis and advice to you. The cold hard truth is you don't know nearly as much as you believe you do and until you accept that and actually listen you will continue to have these issues.  A poor workman always blames his tools.

@roykela You're wasting your time, good effort though.

@HUNT3R @XaW @themadsheep2001 Probably a good idea to close this thread as this person clearly doesn't want a tactical discussion (or indeed any sort of discussion) but rather just peddle his nonsense.

1.png

Again the expected response

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Enough of this. Time and and time again over the last 15 years you have slandered and insulted people while claiming conspiracy theories. Despite this, each and every time people have tried to help you or politely ask for proof or politely point out you are wrong on something, and it's constantly met with hostility. Once again you have been asked to demonstrate proof, and been given help and it's again met aggressive outbursts. So, no more, Garry, your constant misinformation and inability to a respectful member of the forum despite the many many interactions is beyond the pale. It's time we moved you on. Goodbye Garry. 

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