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How can I improve chance creation in this tactic


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My defending is consistently good even with teamx expected to finish 24th/ 23rd in the league and if I use the PIS "get further forward and cross from byline" on the wingers it's  an easy top 6 finish in league Two and League One and one of the better defensive records, without those PIS it doesn't  work at all and will finish in mid table.

When I reach the Championship the tactic just stops working period and actually works better without those PIS  to the point where you will be middle of the pack defensively but not good offensively, but your team competitive in the league and able to stay in whereas with the PIS you will finish 24th every time.

 The tactic completely collapses if you try to use IF (S) as soon as you reach the Championship although I haven't  used the "get further forward " PI on them yet just wondering  how I can change this to create more chances,

Edited by trueblue9877
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I'm not going to tell you what system you should use as I don't know your intended style/what players you have.  However, here is a few things to think about and you can try one or all of them out as you will :-).

The thing that really jumps out to me is the lack of any support for your striker in the box, you have no one making attacking runs, particularly from central areas (the BBM will do a bit but he is a support role for a reason).  Obviously this is helped by using your get further forward instructions, which you can also add to the BBM.

Basically you need to ask yourself who is going to score the goals, who is going to set them up and who is going to provide the cover/recycle option.

Your flanks are one dimensional and the roles you have picked could potentially get in each others way i.e. both are told to get high and wide and get crosses in.  However, who are they crossing to?  You only have the AF in the box consistently.  I would suggest that you add an attack duty at CM (either CM-a or Mez-a depending on the player and what you pick out wide on their flank).

If you want to keep a winger on support on one flank then change the other to an attack duty and consider if you need to swap his role (winger attack can score a lot of goals in the right system with the right players so you might not need to, but worth considering).

You will also need to consider the full-back role behind the attacking wide man, either the CM on that side or the fullback needs to be a bit more conservative to ensure someone is providing defensive cover on that flank.  Same is true on the other flank, there needs to be some balance between wide man, full back and CM, though as you have a DM-d you can take some risk.

Ball playing defenders are intended to play risky sometimes long passes, you have play out of defence on, suggesting you want your CB to play short, consider do you need BPDs at all and both is likely overkill at least.

Last but not least, the AF-a is one of the most attacking striker roles there is and in your formation he can end up isolated, even with better support.  If you see this happening , but still want someone who will attack the box a lot, you can swap his role to CF-a (if you have the player), PF-a or at a push DLF-a (though he will play on the shoulder less than the other two).  Obviously, a support striker is also an option but is completely different to your current role.

Hope this helps.

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This is almost exactly the same tactic from your other thread. And this one too.

So, the feedback is almost exactly the same:

On 08/07/2021 at 16:10, Prolix said:

I can't really tell how you want your team to score goals. The AF is the only player attacking the box and is very isolated. The 2x wingers have only the AF to aim at with their crosses, and they aren't even instructed to aggressively attack the byline (which might at least put them in the vicinity of the striker). As far as I can tell your only routes to goal are 1.) for your BPDs or AP to pass the ball to a forward and hope that they dribble until something happens, or 2.) aggressively pressing and relying on the Counter instruction to get a lot of bodies swarming forward when you force a turnover. Neither of these are reliable/sustainable.

This tactic is certainly very solid and hardworking without the ball. But you need to go back to the drawing board and decide how you want your team to play when they're in the established possession phase.

You've applied the generic grouping of "modern"/counter-pressing TIs but seemingly just thrown in an arbitrary set of roles+duties without much consideration of how they will play together on the pitch.

Edited by Prolix
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8 minutes ago, Prolix said:

This is almost exactly the same tactic from your other thread

So, the feedback is almost exactly the same:

You've applied the generic grouping of "modern"/counter-pressing TIs but seemingly just thrown in an arbitrary set of roles+duties without much consideration of how they will play together on the pitch.

I changed things actually now I'm using two IF (s) with "get further forward" PI so they move closer to the striker and create space out wide by drifting inside  and getting similar results though I also changed the striker to DLF (S) I appreciate you saying the tactic is solid and it does work but I just can't  seem to win against teams in the Championship how would you suggest doing this because I thought using BBM would put another body in the box.

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2 minutes ago, trueblue9877 said:

I changed things actually now I'm using two IF (s) with "get further forward" PI so they move closer to the striker and create space out wide by drifting inside  and getting similar results though I also changed the striker to DLF (S)

Why have you set all your forwards to support duty? I don't mean to say that it's right or wrong, I would just like to know your reasoning behind that decision so my advice can take your vision into consideration!

4 minutes ago, trueblue9877 said:

I thought using BBM would put another body in the box

A BBM will arrive at the box relatively late in attacking moves. CM-a would more aggressively attack the box from midfield if that's something you're looking for. This would also allow the midfielder to link up with the DLF-s you say you're now using.

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21 minutes ago, Prolix said:

Why have you set all your forwards to support duty? I don't mean to say that it's right or wrong, I would just like to know your reasoning behind that decision so my advice can take your vision into consideration!

A BBM will arrive at the box relatively late in attacking moves. CM-a would more aggressively attack the box from midfield if that's something you're looking for. This would also allow the midfielder to link up with the DLF-s you say you're now using.

Thanks for the advice I've found your feedback tobe quite helpful actually it's  because  I  heard a while ago that wingers on attack duty Don't  track back as much so I wanted to avoid that especially as it is what my game plan looks to exploit.

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25 minutes ago, Prolix said:

Why have you set all your forwards to support duty? I don't mean to say that it's right or wrong, I would just like to know your reasoning behind that decision so my advice can take your vision into consideration!

A BBM will arrive at the box relatively late in attacking moves. CM-a would more aggressively attack the box from midfield if that's something you're looking for. This would also allow the midfielder to link up with the DLF-s you say you're now using.

I started a new league 2 save with Morecambe  a couple of hours ago, I've been in the top 6 the whole season  but am expected to finish 22nd, I changed the BBM to CM (A) for a match and won so I'll see how that goes.

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1 hour ago, Prolix said:

This is almost exactly the same tactic from your other thread. And this one too.

So, the feedback is almost exactly the same:

You've applied the generic grouping of "modern"/counter-pressing TIs but seemingly just thrown in an arbitrary set of roles+duties without much consideration of how they will play together on the pitch.

I don't  think so there's  a thought process behind spreading the play and moving the opposition defence to create space in the middle, I have other tactics I use which attack more centrally but not in this screenshot.

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19 hours ago, Prolix said:

Why have you set all your forwards to support duty? I don't mean to say that it's right or wrong, I would just like to know your reasoning behind that decision so my advice can take your vision into consideration!

A BBM will arrive at the box relatively late in attacking moves. CM-a would more aggressively attack the box from midfield if that's something you're looking for. This would also allow the midfielder to link up with the DLF-s you say you're now using.

This is what the new tactic looks like btw, thoughts on this?

Tactic key.png

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