Match 51 THE FINAL: Italy vs England - 8pm Sunday BBC1 AND ITV1 LIVE FROM WEMBLEY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[enigmatic]

5 minutes ago, The_jagster said:

I'm not saying that, I think we hold onto the 0-0 and still drop deep. We happened to score against Germany from Sterling running past their midfield, on another day we concede from Werner's chance or a corner. Germany isn't a brilliant blueprint.

Edit: and I think we still drop deep against Italy at 0-0 because their midfield is technically better. There were interchanges in our third from Verratti/Insigne that just don't happen with our midfield.

I also think if we don't score the early goal, Italy don't have 20 minutes of looking weirdly shapeless and start playing keep-ball a lot earlier. It's not like our record of scoring second or in penalties after 0-0s is anything special

 

The only difference with it being 0-0 after 60ish minutes is it's a lot more tempting to make attacking subs, but not sure Gareth (or most managers tbh) was likely to do that anyway

 

 

 

[Bigwig]

8 minutes ago, VamPook said:

Not sure why everyone is saying Southgate will learn from this

Literally the same pragmatic tactics from game 1 this tournament. Read every match thread and you have the same comments and complaints.

I would say it goes back to the World Cup. After that people said Southgate would learn and come back stronger but a lot of the same issues occurred here such as sticking with certain players, not reacting to what was happening on the pitch (although he was somewhat better on this tbf) and not making subs until it’s too late. 

[eenie]

1 hour ago, Pedwar Pump said:

Channeling Kevin Pressman, who incidentally scored the best penalty i've ever seen in a shootout aginst Wolves

I've seen a couple of excellent pens taken by goalies. Artur Boruc scored a brilliant penalty for Celtic in an epic shootout with Dundee United (think it was 11-10 on pens or something crazy, every single player took one). And obviously Ricardo scored a great pen for Portugal in 2004: took off his gloves to save Vassell's penalty then smashed the winner past James.

 

[eenie]

10 hours ago, Wiggins Top Boys said:

I mean it helped me make the decision that my kids are not going to grow up here, so there's that.

Great stuff. You're always posting about how much you hate Scotland so it's probably for the best.

[jep]

23 minutes ago, Wiggins Top Boys said:

Southgate bottled it really. Does he really have the instinct to lead this team to win a tournament? He just doesn't seem like a winner to me.

He got beat by the best team in world football right now in a penalty shoot out, and he somehow bottled it? Would a sprinter get told he bottled it because lost to Usain Bolt after being beaten in the 100 metres with a dip at the line?

I see these words Bottler and Coward being thrown around regarding Southgate and it makes me sick. Did he make some wrong decisions? Yes he did, but he also made a lot of right ones too. He also stood up to racists in the country and took responsibility for his decisions (not all managers have the guts to do that - shout out to Jose and Roy Hodgson) so calling him a coward and a bottler is just not right.

[eenie]

28 minutes ago, Wiggins Top Boys said:

Southgate bottled it really. Does he really have the instinct to lead this team to win a tournament? He just doesn't seem like a winner to me.

Mate he was a couple of penalties away from winning the ****ing thing!

[titchuk]

Throughout the tournament Southgate made a number of calls that made me go 'uhhhh' but he got them right. Looked like he was going to get it right again yesterday for a while too, with Trippier making hay down that flank.

But unfortunately he didn't seem to be able to do anything to turn the tide last night; I still don't really know what Italy changed but they were on top for most of the match and we didn't cope. And I think Southgate made a mistake bringing Rashford and Sancho on so late, they barely touched the ball before having to take the penalty.

I also wonder whether having the big, pumped crowd for this one ended up actually being a hindrance rather than a help. I was in a loud, echoey pub where I couldn't hear much so maybe I'm wrong on this, but it felt like the crowd was extremely tense and it felt like that affected the players.

Anyway, I like Southgate and I like this team. Bit of a bummer last night but they should be proud of what they achieved and I'm trying to think of the happy moments of finally beating Germany, blowing Ukraine away, reaching a final.

[Wiggins Top Boys]

6 minutes ago, eenie said:

Great stuff. You're always posting about how much you hate Scotland so it's probably for the best.

I love Scotland. Some of the people are sad and bitter though.

[Coulthard's Jaw]

7 minutes ago, titchuk said:

I also wonder whether having the big, pumped crowd for this one ended up actually being a hindrance rather than a help. I was in a loud, echoey pub where I couldn't hear much so maybe I'm wrong on this, but it felt like the crowd was extremely tense and it felt like that affected the players.

Would be interesting to hear what people at the game think, but on TV I thought the atmosphere sounded terrible. 

[Federico]

1 ora fa, Bootador ha scritto:

If you're referring to my post from days ago, you misread the context. It wasn't arrogance, I'm as laid back about England as they come. Our pace had the potential to cause you huge problems, ultimately it didn't. Wasn't hugely surprising given the manager, but I'm hardly in position to be overly critical given it's this approach that took us to the final (even if it's not to my taste).

Congratulations, I have no problem with Italy 

It's not that, but I learnt to be very cautious about football.

There was too much confidence around, but last night England did nothing but very few to deserve the trophy. Once again you crashed on the first top team you played against on your path. It happened in Russia, it happened yesterday.

I know my country, I know my people and ultimately I know Italian national team. The last three major trophies have been won when we were massively considered underdogs. That's, we do our best when nobody but ourselves believe in us 

England team is young and full of resources and I can easily see them to get some achievements along with Spain, but I'd reconsider the position of Southgate at this point as he proved to not be consistent in big games in my opinion.

[Jorg]

1 minute ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Would be interesting to hear what people at the game think, but on TV I thought the atmosphere sounded terrible. 

I'm just listening to a guy on 5live and it sounds absolutely horrendous  

[The_jagster]

1 minute ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Would be interesting to hear what people at the game think, but on TV I thought the atmosphere sounded terrible. 

Same, Carl Anka on TFS said good until HT, poor afterwards.

And apparently lots of complaints from people saying I paid £££££ for my ticket, get these chancers out for those that broke into Wembley.

[eenie]

2 minutes ago, Wiggins Top Boys said:

I love Scotland. Some of the people are sad and bitter though.

Same with England, mate. But you're the one who apparently can't countenance bringing up your kids here. Unfortunate, because it's actually a great place to raise kids. There are arseholes everywhere, sadly.

[Wiggins Top Boys]

10 minutes ago, jep said:

He got beat by the best team in world football right now in a penalty shoot out, and he somehow bottled it? Would a sprinter get told he bottled it because lost to Usain Bolt after being beaten in the 100 metres with a dip at the line?

I see these words Bottler and Coward being thrown around regarding Southgate and it makes me sick. Did he make some wrong decisions? Yes he did, but he also made a lot of right ones too. He also stood up to racists in the country and took responsibility for his decisions (not all managers have the guts to do that - shout out to Jose and Roy Hodgson) so calling him a coward and a bottler is just not right.

I am talking specifically about his decisions in the final. He bottled them and got it all wrong.

Made some great decisions before that and in the tournament in general and the way he's handled things off the pitch, but specifically for that game. Pretty poor

[Jorg]

As usual.  It is the well behaved, genuine fans that have suffered.  The policing question is definitely one that should be answered.

[Coulthard's Jaw]

We probably should have a separate thread for what happened, but people breaking in and being able to watch the match is just insane. Worst security failure at a major sporting event for a long time.

 

[Rob1981]

17 minutes ago, Andrew_ said:

England got there in spite of Southgate. Yeh he's done good around the perception of the team and that's big, but football wise he was too negative. 

I mean seriously. We were two kicks away from winning the tournament against a team that are unbeaten in two years or something.

Yes he is defensive minded, but a Sven or a Steve McClaren would have shoehorned Grealish and Foden and Mount and Rashford and Sancho into the same starting eleven. Not played with any balance in the side and not gone with Phillips or Rice or an extra defender for fear of leaving out a big name and being criticised by the media. I know which I prefer and I know which would have been nailed on for another R16 exit.

Southgate could have been a bit braver last night, switched things around quicker or chosen different penalty takers. The rest of the tournament he has been absolutely spot on.

[eenie]

Just now, Coulthard's Jaw said:

We probably should have a separate thread for what happened, but people breaking in and being able to watch the match is just insane. Worst security failure at a major sporting event for a long time.

 

Yeah, it's just ridiculous if these people were allowed to remain inside the stadium. Mind you, it's not like there would be anywhere near enough stewards or security to find and eject them, so the damage was done when they were allowed to push in in the first place. Shameful behaviour though.

[Tikka Mezzala]

 

5 minutes ago, eenie said:

Same with England, mate. But you're the one who apparently can't countenance bringing up your kids here. Unfortunate, because it's actually a great place to raise kids. There are arseholes everywhere, sadly.

Not bringing up kids here .

Made my ****ing day that did.

[enigmatic]

4 minutes ago, The_jagster said:

2014: go behind twice to Italy, go behind twice to Uruguay

2012: grimly hold on for pens against Italy. 1-1 against France from 39 mins onwards having led for 9 minutes and have 31% possession in the last half hour

2010: concede early and get done on the counter when behind against Germany

We are absolutely terrible in big games when we haven't taken an early lead too.

This.  More importantly, apart from Denmark I can't remember any significant wins where we came from behind. Won more scoring early, and most of the ones we didn't win are penalties at, which we've been truly atrocious in.

 

Just now, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Would be interesting to hear what people at the game think, but on TV I thought the atmosphere sounded terrible. 

I think it was heavily filtered. No audible anthem or knee boos and not a sound in the background at half time

[Wiggins Top Boys]

3 minutes ago, Tikka Mezzala said:

 

Not bringing up kids here .

Made my ****ing day that did.

My wife is English with a Scottish parent and brought up in Scotland. She's always told me she hated growing up here and was made to never feel welcome. We have friends and family that quite frankly have taken friendly rivalry and shown themselves up as people full of bile and hatred towards the English. Yesterday my 3 year old daughter was even receiving comments for wearing her England shirt out in town.

This is not the thread to discuss my entire personal circumstances just to justify what I said. But I don't want my children to experience the same as what my wife did and yesterday was a nasty insight into that. So you can laugh all you like. I love Scotland and a lot of the people here but many, including people that are supposed to be my friend have showed themselves up massively and I am embarrassed for them.

[enigmatic]

5 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

Southgate could have been a bit braver last night, switched things around quicker or chosen different penalty takers. The rest of the tournament he has been absolutely spot on.

And let's be honest, most of us including me didn't want to see wingbacks, but they combined for our opening goal and Italy had no idea how to deal with them at the start, so difficult to fault that plan either. Maybe we'd have passed them off the park with 4-2-3-1 including Sancho and Grealish like most fans wanted, but I doubt it 

[GunmaN1905]

16 minutes ago, eenie said:

Mate he was a couple of penalties away from winning the ****ing thing!

And?

You can't look at it that way, you have to look at context and how England plays.

Football ultimately rewards you, Southgate doesn't deserve anything because of his tactics.

After 2018 semi-final, everyone agreed it was a learning experience, losing a lead like that against a more experienced team.

What does he do? Plays exactly the same in this tournament.

No other team has so much attacking depth and options, yet England played like some second grade team.

 

Scored fairly early against subpar Croatia and then just held onto the lead without really trying to finish the game.

Scotland? Did absolutely nothing.

Czechs? Same thing as Croatia.

Germany? You can never say they don't have the quality, but they just played an even game against Hungary days before that. Could've easily went the other way if Muller didn't miss that chance. Still, the best managed game this tournament by Southgate.

Ukraine? Same thing, early lead. They fell apart after 2-0, scored after a set piece.

Denmark? Here it was the other way around, England did really well to come back and equalize, started dominating the game and by the time that penalty happened Denmark looked like they're absolutely done and ready to concede a few in the ET. But then again, as soon as you scored it reverted to almost panic defending.

Italy? Said it multiple times already, embarrassing more or less catenaccio whole game long. You get a 1-0 lead in front of full Wembley and you resort to panic defending, don't deserve anything else. Litereally not a single shot after the goal during regular time. There's absolutely no excuse for that.

 

Honestly, I don't get some of you guys. You obviously had one of the best squads in the tournament, if not the best after France. You're playing at home, you take the lead and you're content after the loss in the final?

This was cowardly coaching and nothing else.

Southgate really looks like a great guy, but he's a loser. No other way to put it.
Not because he lost, but because he's a coward who'll never grow out of it.

Just compare for example this game to Italy's games, they never stopped trying to score and put the game away, no matter who they play against.

On the other side, Southgate plays 3 CBs and two midfielders who're way better in defense than going forward. Alongside two proper full-backs.

If you're fine with him absolutely shackling this team, I won't object, but even as someone who wanted England to lose every single game, it was frustrating to watch, so much unused potential.

[themadsheep2001]

Doesn't matter whether you get other people, that's their view. 

[eenie]

1 minute ago, Wiggins Top Boys said:

My wife is English with a Scottish parent and brought up in Scotland. She's always told me she hated growing up here and was made to never feel welcome. We have friends and family that quite frankly have taken friendly rivalry and shown themselves up as people full of bile and hatred towards the English. Yesterday my 3 year old daughter was even receiving comments for wearing her England shirt out in town.

This is not the thread to discuss my entire personal circumstances just to justify what I said. But I don't want my children to experience the same as what my wife did and yesterday was a nasty insight into that. So you can laugh all you like. I love Scotland and a lot of the people here but many, including people that are supposed to be my friend have showed themselves up massively and I am embarrassed for them.

There's no doubt that there is a streak of anti-English sentiment in Scotland, but to take your anecdote and turn it around, both of my parents are from England and have lived in Scotland for over 50 years and they haven't experienced any anti-English sentiment. I never experienced any either, despite growing up with a more "English" accent than many of my childhood friends. The vast majority of Scots don't harbour any animosity towards England or the English, and vice versa. I'm sorry that you have felt bile and hatred.

I also have a feeling that you may be one of those people who enjoy "friendly rivalry" when you are getting the upper hand, but don't like "bile and hatred" when you are on the receiving end rather than dishing it out.

[eenie]

3 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

Honestly, I don't get some of you guys. You obviously had one of the best squads in the tournament, if not the best after France. You're playing at home, you take the lead and you're content after the loss in the final?

Seeing as you wrote this out directly after quoting my post, I feel I must point out that I'm not English  

My point, which may have been missed, is that if a couple of penalties had gone the other way then there wouldn't be the same level of soul-searching or criticism about negative tactics. The ends justify the means in football and had England won on penalties last night then we'd be getting a completely different narrative about Southgate's tactics from the same people who are complaining today.

[Tikka Mezzala]

8 minutes ago, Wiggins Top Boys said:

My wife is English with a Scottish parent and brought up in Scotland. She's always told me she hated growing up here and was made to never feel welcome. We have friends and family that quite frankly have taken friendly rivalry and shown themselves up as people full of bile and hatred towards the English. Yesterday my 3 year old daughter was even receiving comments for wearing her England shirt out in town.

This is not the thread to discuss my entire personal circumstances just to justify what I said. But I don't want my children to experience the same as what my wife did and yesterday was a nasty insight into that. So you can laugh all you like. I love Scotland and a lot of the people here but many, including people that are supposed to be my friend have showed themselves up massively and I am embarrassed for them.

I'm genuinely sorry for what you're wife and daughter have had to deal with, but to infer that Scotland is not a good place to bring up a family if you're English is quite a leap. Is England a bad place to raise a German speaking family because some idiots will dole out abuse to a German girl crying? Or a Danish family? No. Because it would be silly to tarnish an entire society like that. 

We have idiots up here like you have down there. 

[Wiggins Top Boys]

3 minutes ago, eenie said:

There's no doubt that there is a streak of anti-English sentiment in Scotland, but to take your anecdote and turn it around, both of my parents are from England and have lived in Scotland for over 50 years and they haven't experienced any anti-English sentiment. I never experienced any either, despite growing up with a more "English" accent than many of my childhood friends. The vast majority of Scots don't harbour any animosity towards England or the English, and vice versa. I'm sorry that you have felt bile and hatred.

I also have a feeling that you may be one of those people who enjoy "friendly rivalry" when you are getting the upper hand, but don't like "bile and hatred" when you are on the receiving end rather than dishing it out.

You don't know me at all so that is not true, but happy to concede that perhaps my wife's 'friends' and family are truly not very nice.

[foolsgold]

**** me Gunman your posts are always absolutely bizarre, writing with the benefit of hindsight as if choices in the first place were completely obvious and as if you would have done it perfectly every time. Everyone is a 'bottle job' and every player who isn't absolutely world class is 'awful'. Armchair football fans at their worst. You expect every game to finish 5-0 to the best team and anything less is crap. If coaching was this easy then why aren't you in charge somewhere?

Southgate is not without criticism, far from it, but calling him a coward and this and that... Opinions would have been totally different if the 50:50 lottery had gone the other way and we had won the thing. When it is on a knife edge as fine as that, coming out and saying he is a coward, a loser and and an awful manager when the absolute opposite would have been said about him if luck had gone the other way only shows that the overly harsh criticism of him is totally invalid.

Edited July 12, 2021 by foolsgold

[enigmatic]

3 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

Just compare for example this game to Italy's games, they never stopped trying to score and put the game away, no matter who they play against.

Italy got to the final doing to Spain exactly what we tried to do to Italy, but taking better penalties...

[eenie]

1 minute ago, Wiggins Top Boys said:

You don't know me at all so that is not true, but happy to concede that perhaps my wife's 'friends' and family are truly not very nice.

I can only speak for what I do know about you, which is based entirely on your posting history. And you love to dish it out but don't seem able to take it back.

And as @Tikka Mezzalasays, you should avoid tarring an entire country with the same brush. Obviously your own experiences will colour your perception but you need to watch for extrapolating that too far.

[Wiggins Top Boys]

5 minutes ago, eenie said:

I can only speak for what I do know about you, which is based entirely on your posting history. And you love to dish it out but don't seem able to take it back.

And as @Tikka Mezzalasays, you should avoid tarring an entire country with the same brush. Obviously your own experiences will colour your perception but you need to watch for extrapolating that too far.

Nobody ever does that about England or Millwall fans so we're all good there 

[themadsheep2001]

12 minutes ago, foolsgold said:

**** me Gunman your posts are always absolutely bizarre, writing with the benefit of hindsight as if choices in the first place were completely obvious and as if you would have done it perfectly every time. Everyone is a 'bottle job' and every player who isn't absolutely world class is 'awful'. Armchair football fans at their worst. You expect every game to finish 5-0 to the best team and anything less is crap. If coaching was this easy then why aren't you in charge somewhere?

Southgate is not without criticism, far from it, but calling him a coward and this and that... Opinions would have been totally different if the 50:50 lottery had gone the other way and we had won the thing. When it is on a knife edge as fine as that, coming out and saying he is a coward, a loser and and an awful manager when the absolute opposite would have been said about him if luck had gone the other way only shows that the overly harsh criticism of him is totally invalid.

My main issue, and maybe only real issue with Southgate is that I don't think he's great at using subs. Given the major depth, that's something we need to learn from. But if you'd told me at the beginning of the tournament we'd lose to Italy on penalties in the final I'd have considered that a great tournament. Still hurts mind. But it's no end of an era. Plenty more to come. 

But yeah can't get on board with his easy assertions after the fact

[GunmaN1905]

4 minutes ago, foolsgold said:

**** me Gunman your posts are always absolutely bizarre, writing with the benefit of hindsight as if choices in the first place were completely obvious and as if you would have done it perfectly every time.

I literally said 2018 was a learning experience.

Games you played this touranment were copy/paste if we talk tactical setup.

Quote

Everyone is a 'bottle job' and every player who isn't absolutely world class is 'awful'.

Noone was a bottle job last night except for Southgate.
His approach to the game was awful, especially after the early goal.
Kane is the only player who can get a negative grade.

Everything else is on the coach.

Quote

Opinions would have been totally different if the 50:50 lottery had gone the other way and we had won the thing.

No. You can go back and find the posts before the shootout started. I said the same thing then. Southgate shackled the team.

7 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Italy got to the final doing to Spain exactly what we tried to do to Italy, but taking better penalties...

Those games are way different. Italy conceded 10 minutes before the end.

And their depth is laughable. Bernardeschi, Berardi and Belotti wouldn't have made the English squad.
Lingard, Ings and Gayle if you want.

Due to injuries there are also no full-back replacements and midfield was way weaker.

On the other side, Southgate has half a dozen attacking options that are all about equal if we talk quality.

And he did nothing with them.

[Reggiana]

23 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

And let's be honest, most of us including me didn't want to see wingbacks, but they combined for our opening goal and Italy had no idea how to deal with them at the start, so difficult to fault that plan either. Maybe we'd have passed them off the park with 4-2-3-1 including Sancho and Grealish like most fans wanted, but I doubt it 

The thing with this is that obviously England scored a goal (although a better right back deals with that no problems) but that was the only shot they had in the entire first half. The wing backs were finding space but for the most part with not many forward players on the pitch there wasn't a right lot of end product, I thought the only really threatening looking moments were when Sterling got running with the ball.

We definitely weren't going to pass Italy off the park in any formation though

[eenie]

Just now, Wiggins Top Boys said:

Nobody ever does that about England or Millwall fans so we're all good there 

Are you actually arguing that two wrongs make a right here?  "They do it so I will too" is pretty immature. If anything I would have thought your perspective would make you less eager to generalise, seeing as it pains you so much  

And you don't need to tell me about Millwall fans - my mum's entire family were and are Millwall  

[Wiggins Top Boys]

Just now, eenie said:

Are you actually arguing that two wrongs make a right here?  "They do it so I will too" is pretty immature. If anything I would have thought your perspective would make you less eager to generalise, seeing as it pains you so much  

And you don't need to tell me about Millwall fans - my mum's entire family were and are Millwall  

I'm only joking, calm it. Your mum's entire family sound scummy. And trust me I would know

[Andrew_]

48 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

I mean seriously. We were two kicks away from winning the tournament against a team that are unbeaten in two years or something.

Yes he is defensive minded, but a Sven or a Steve McClaren would have shoehorned Grealish and Foden and Mount and Rashford and Sancho into the same starting eleven. Not played with any balance in the side and not gone with Phillips or Rice or an extra defender for fear of leaving out a big name and being criticised by the media. I know which I prefer and I know which would have been nailed on for another R16 exit.

Southgate could have been a bit braver last night, switched things around quicker or chosen different penalty takers. The rest of the tournament he has been absolutely spot on.

What's he been spot on about?

[foolsgold]

11 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

 

Noone was a bottle job last night except for Southgate.
His approach to the game was awful, especially after the early goal.
 

Absolutely not. Once again, using hindsight to make out that Southgate did everything wrong and that you would have done better.

I absolutely disagree with much of what he did, but who's to say that if he set up differently, we wouldn't have been absolutely torn a new one by Chiesa, Immobile and Insigne? We will never know whether he bottled it. We will never know if he actually did well to stay in the game.

He reached the final of a major tournament for only the second time in the history of this country. Throwing out insults left and right as if he did terribly, when in reality he's anything but a bottle job.

Edited July 12, 2021 by foolsgold

[foolsgold]

12 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

My main issue, and maybe only real issue with Southgate is that I don't think he's great at using subs. Given the major depth, that's something we need to learn from. But if you'd told me at the beginning of the tournament we'd lose to Italy on penalties in the final I'd have considered that a great tournament. Still hurts mind. But it's no end of an era. Plenty more to come. 

But yeah can't get on board with his easy assertions after the fact

Pretty much as I see it too 

[Heartwork]

The scum are out in full force today.

[Citizen Sandman]

I'm in the gunman camp, I'm not really an England fan either way but I feel more could have been done.

Strange tournament overall 

[Divinity]

So many positives to take from this tournament and the English still turn to their favourite pastime: Who can be blamed for this?

[Smallen]

Southgate got it absolutely spot on at the start of the game. Italy couldn’t handle the wing backs. Tripper had the freedom of the right hand side. It’s just such a shame we went into our shells and our 3 at the back became a flat 5.

[GunmaN1905]

10 minutes ago, foolsgold said:

I absolutely disagree with much of what he did, but who's to say that if he set up differently, we wouldn't have been absolutely torn a new one by Chiesa, Immobile and Insigne? We will never know whether he bottled it. We will never know if he actually did well to stay in the game.

Then why not field one more CB right away after you scored?

Wrote about 3 man defense setup as soon as the news got out and that it's useless against Italy, so it wasn't all hindsight.

  

Just now, Smallen said:

Southgate got it absolutely spot on at the start of the game. Italy couldn’t handle the wing backs. Tripper had the freedom of the right hand side. It’s just such a shame we went into our shells and our 3 at the back became a flat 5.

You were missing a midfielder who can keep the ball and push the transition.

Rice did well, but he's not that player.

Same thing happened in 2018 semi-final.

Edited July 12, 2021 by GunmaN1905

[DJ]

1 minute ago, Divinity said:

So many positives to take from this tournament and the English still turn to their favourite pastime: Who can be blamed for this?

I follow several teams and I can testify that in Holland, Spain and Germany, the blame game is also in full force. Not an England special ^^

[TM]

2 minutes ago, Citizen Kane said:

I'm in the gunman camp, I'm not really an England fan either way but I feel more could have been done.

Strange tournament overall 

I'm the same but I don't agree with Southgate being a "bottle job" because he isn't, he's just got England to their first major final in 55 years

England have the players, they have a manager they all love but I don't think he's the right guy to get them over the line.  Problem is, if you change it, you can mess things up with a manager that players don't like.  I feel England are untapped potential that might never get realised.  Wasn't going to happen but when England went 1-0 up, they should have went for Italy's throat and tried to kill it.  Italy were on the ropes for at least 20 minutes of that game and Kane was one of the reasons for that, spraying balls about

[enigmatic]

25 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

Those games are way different. Italy conceded 10 minutes before the end.

Sure, Italy got an equaliser 13 whole minutes earlier than Spain, and it was 0-0 rather than 1-0 for most of the time Italy sat back and soaked up pressure in the semi. Massive! 

Can't be bothered to dig up your posts slating Mancini for that game, just find it hilarious that you've put that out of your mind to claim "they never stopped trying to score and put the game away, no matter who they play against"

IIRC they only managed a single shot against us in the last 45 mins of the game, and we all know who your trademark post about managerial bottling would have been directed against if we'd put our penalties away...

Edited July 12, 2021 by enigmatic

[Jorg]

2 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

You were missing a midfielder who can keep the ball and push the transition.

Rice did well, but he's not that player.

Same thing happened in 2018 semi-final.

England are missing Billy Gilmour basically!  

[Heartwork]

Just now, TM said:

I'm the same but I don't agree with Southgate being a "bottle job" because he isn't, he's just got England to their first major final in 55 years

England have the players, they have a manager they all love but I don't think he's the right guy to get them over the line.  Problem is, if you change it, you can mess things up with a manager that players don't like.  I feel England are untapped potential that might never get realised.  Wasn't going to happen but when England went 1-0 up, they should have went for Italy's throat and tried to kill it.  Italy were on the ropes for at least 20 minutes of that game and Kane was one of the reasons for that, spraying balls about

The suggestion I would make is bringing in a coach who will get in Southgate's ear and challenge him to be braver with his decisions. He's got some great coaches on his team but none that will actually challenge his decisions and push him, filling in where Gareth is lacking. We've seen that he listens to his coaching staff but they all seem to have the same problem.