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Match 51 THE FINAL: Italy vs England - 8pm Sunday BBC1 AND ITV1 LIVE FROM WEMBLEY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Seemed to me that England came out going for it, and rattled Italy for about the first 30 minutes, but over the progression of the match the confidence slowly started tilting until it completely swung by the end.  The score was the same, the consequences were the same, but Itally really wanted to try and win it without going to penalties, and by the end of the match England looked like a bag of nerves.  I don't think the midfield got dominated as much as it was that their confidence grew lower and lower.  

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2 minutes ago, Andrew_ said:

Me when i saw Magure was walking up to take the second penalty

Confused_Mark_Wahlberg.0.gif

Yeah but he absolutely smashed it.  I was happy to see his personal victory after everything he's been through.  That was one of the best moments of the match for me.  :D

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Switching to a more offensive formation when we were winning would have been bold, especially in a situation where the opposition were creating surprisingly little with their masses of possession. Don't actually remember Walker doing that much defensively except being there, but Italy really only had one clear cut chance before the goal (in the first half) and had to work really hard for the can't-really-call-them-chances they tested Pickford on. There's a reason Italy took so many shots from distance

Same goes for subbing Mount (a better defensive player) for Grealish or bringing on Hendo early. We didn't exactly look like a massive threat even when we did change the shape

 

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2 hours ago, Paul Bacon said:

Few questions need answering by Southgate

1 - Bringing on pen takers isnt a bad idea, but why bring them on so late that their only real touch of the ball was the penalty? Give them some feel for the game first

2 - Why did none of the senior players step forward (apart from 2) to take one?

3 - Rashford never looked at the ball once during his run-up or kick. He was only concerned with the way the keeper was going. We supposedly practice pens all the time. That cannot be a planned tactic surely? No one trains someone to not look at the ball

Despite his age, I’d count Rashford as a senior pro. He has 46 caps. 

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Neither Kane or Sterling played high enough, but it’s because our defensive line were starting so deep.

Ah man. It hurts this morning. We really ****ed it up in the final.

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Still so frustrated this morning. So much that could and should have been done but yet again, dithered about and paid the price. If your game plan revolves around spending nearly an hour playing for penalties against a team you could have put away on the counter you deserve to lose. Mount was anonymous, Kane played well for 15 mins and then did nothing and Sterling was doing his usual "run into a blind alley and give the ball away". Couldn't get him any support whatsoever. The right subs were far too late and the ones that came on earlier did nothing. Rice was our best midfielder and the only person driving up the pitch, got hooked. Henderson as per usual offered nothing, Saka was channelling his inner Emmanuel Eboue for most of his time on the pitch and I can't recall a thing about Grealish's brief cameo apart from being on the end of that Jorginho tackle that should have been a red card. 

Massive opportunity missed that we should have taken. 

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16 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

 

Got to say, of all the low-calibre armchair punditry over last night, this has to be amongst the worst takes. 

Kane had a good game, he played a big role in both games and he had to come deeper because Italy clearly did a job on him and surrounded him with 4 players every time he got the ball in a dangerous area.

It's a very early 90s Mike Basset "we play 4-4-****ing-2" attitude to say "youre striker has to be always in the box scoring goals", rather than positively affecting play in general.

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11 minutes ago, Smallen said:

Neither Kane or Sterling played high enough, but it’s because our defensive line were starting so deep.

Ah man. It hurts this morning. We really ****ed it up in the final.

Chin up, mate. Lots to be positive about going forward.

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Southgate made one mistake but unfortunately he made it over and over and it was playing Saka.

He looked like a lost boy against Germany and I couldn't believe he brought him on before Rashford, Sancho or Grealish. And again he looked like some kid playing with real men, had no right being on the pitch. And then taking the last pen was unbelievable.

Rashford and Sancho should've been on a lot earlier too. Your first touch in a final shouldn't be a penalty. 

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3 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Basically, we died wondering. Don't even have any classic what if moments to look back on, just a really miserable, boring match.

This is essentially how I feel, the closest was Stones not quite reaching that header in ET

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1 minute ago, MIR17 said:

Got to say, of all the low-calibre armchair punditry over last night, this has to be amongst the worst takes. 

Kane had a good game, he played a big role in both games and he had to come deeper because Italy clearly did a job on him and surrounded him with 4 players every time he got the ball in a dangerous area.

It's a very early 90s Mike Basset "we play 4-4-****ing-2" attitude to say "youre striker has to be always in the box scoring goals", rather than positively affecting play in general.

Yeah. There was one moment in the entire match where we played the ball into the box and my thought was "where's Kane". Don't think we lost because of that. The rest of the time he was either there or we weren't anywhere near playing into their penalty area anyway

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2 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Basically, we died wondering. Don't even have any classic what if moments to look back on, just a really miserable, boring match.

Showed them way too much respect in the middle part of the match. It felt like they played one of the games of their lives to get a 1-1 draw and we just never found the extra gear that we had showed in the other knockout games. Southgate maybe too cautious getting Sancho and Grealish on, but the likes of Sterling and Kane and Saka didn’t turn up.

Wonder how much difference the extra day’s rest made in the end. 

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1 minute ago, Rob1981 said:

Showed them way too much respect in the middle part of the match. It felt like they played one of the games of their lives to get a 1-1 draw and we just never found the extra gear that we had showed in the other knockout games. Southgate maybe too cautious getting Sancho and Grealish on, but the likes of Sterling and Kane and Saka didn’t turn up.

Wonder how much difference the extra day’s rest made in the end. 

I wouldn't say Italy played the game of their lives. 

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7 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Basically, we died wondering. Don't even have any classic what if moments to look back on, just a really miserable, boring match.

Yikes mate. Chill out a bit. It was a typical cagey final. They never great games. It hurts now but I strangely enjoyed the day overall (obviously enjoy it more if we won). Was great being on the edge of my seat for 12mins, seeing England in a final going toe to toe with a giant of international football. Losing narrowly on pens. Once the pain dies down I will look back fondly on this tournament overall. 

Rashford hits the inside of the post and we win IMO :brock:

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2 minutes ago, Tikka Mezzala said:

I wouldn't say Italy played the game of their lives. 

I mean they played far far better than us and still only drew and didn’t give Pickford much to do all game. I would have had no issue losing 3-0 to the better team. But they were there for the taking.

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4 hours ago, NotSoSpecialOne said:

Thought Gareth Southgate's "mid-game management" was poor and a contributing factor to the loss. Was a bit dodgy against Denmark too but Italy are the better side so its more apparent. So some stuff there for him to mull over and learn from moving forward.

Taking Immobile off and moving Insighne middle was inspired by Mancini.

Anyway, wanted England to win but Italy are deserved winners so congrats to them.

Southgate reminds me of an NFL coach - very methodical and organised and very often risk averse.  I thought Italy were there for the taking in the 1st half - they could barely string two passes together.  He needs to learn how to kill good teams off I think.

I think when Italy came out for the 2nd half they were much improved and controlled things.  I think you're right when you say Mancini made good tactical choices.

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7 minutes ago, Gizzy said:

Southgate made one mistake but unfortunately he made it over and over and it was playing Saka.

He looked like a lost boy against Germany and I couldn't believe he brought him on before Rashford, Sancho or Grealish. And again he looked like some kid playing with real men, had no right being on the pitch. And then taking the last pen was unbelievable.

Rashford and Sancho should've been on a lot earlier too. Your first touch in a final shouldn't be a penalty. 

Generally agree, but can't about Saka. If we'd got him on earlier, particularly while Italy were behind, his runs would have been that much more effective. Chiellini could afford one tactical yellow, he couldn't have kept doing it.

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I didn't like Italy's antics, but there is no denying they're the deserved champion.

Looking at the entire tournament, they played the best and offensive football. They had the most difficult road to the final. And also in the final last night they had most ball-possession and most shots on target. 

They showed themselves to be a very complete team in terms of teamwork, mental strength and technical ability. So well-played.

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2 minutes ago, Astafjevs said:

'game of their lives' :D

Enigmatic must have been watching a different game as well. 

You must have missed the trophy engraver carving 'England Lost' on the trophy :D

 

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14 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

I mean they played far far better than us and still only drew and didn’t give Pickford much to do all game. I would have had no issue losing 3-0 to the better team. But they were there for the taking.

It was quite a cagey game. Defences generally on top. Italy controlled the midfield. But both teams could have stepped it up a few gears in an attacking sense. 

I don't know about "there for the taking", though. Italy might have preferred a more open England approach. 

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22 minutes ago, Gizzy said:

Southgate made one mistake but unfortunately he made it over and over and it was playing Saka.

He looked like a lost boy against Germany and I couldn't believe he brought him on before Rashford, Sancho or Grealish. And again he looked like some kid playing with real men, had no right being on the pitch. And then taking the last pen was unbelievable.

Rashford and Sancho should've been on a lot earlier too. Your first touch in a final shouldn't be a penalty. 

I agree Saka had a poor game, much as I very very like him. 

Although I agree about rashford and Sancho. Rashford in particular was stripped and ready about 5 mins before but refs wouldn't let the change when e.g an out Italy thrown in. I actually wondered a bit if Italy would deliberately pass ball only in defence to end game without subs but eventually counter attack and got corner. Whether even that would be enough time though. Probably not. 

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I think, contrary to a lot of the opinions I've seen on here, England were really good again. Had the form team of the tournament bang in trouble for most of the first half - could've scored 2 or 3 on another day. And then stood up reasonably well to them finding their feet in the second half. That said, a draw over the 120 mins was probably about fair.

I do however think that the penalty strategy was a ****ing shambles - Gareth will rightly get stick for it. Perhaps excepting Rashford who is something of a PK specialist, bringing on players specifically to take a pen never sits well with me - increases the pressure on those players on top of what is already the most pressured moment of their careers.

And Saka on the 5th? What is that all about! I'd have almost every player on the pitch for us taking that pen ahead of Saka - which is no slight on Saka who I thought was excellent in this tournament - he's a teenager ffs. Even if he's put his hand up to take one, Gareth's GOT to be veto-ing it. God I hope he bounces back well from it.

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5 minutes ago, Astafjevs said:

I know you didn't. Was referring to two different posts

Not even sure what you're disagreeing with since I'm making the precise opposite point: Italy did just enough with their masses of possession to deserve an equaliser after a very disappointing first half and then didn't really go for it afterwards despite England looking leggy

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8 minutes ago, Tikka Mezzala said:

It was quite a cagey game. Defences generally on top. Italy controlled the midfield. But both teams could have stepped it up a few gears in an attacking sense. 

I don't know about "there for the taking", though. Italy might have preferred a more open England approach. 

In the first half they were.  They looked like a weans team on the edge of tears, struggling to string together short passes.  And then, bafflingly, instead of keeping the foot on the throat and trying to get a second - which likely would have all but killed off the game - they decided to spend the next half an hour or so slowly letting Italy back into the game.  

Italy were largely dreadful, but England didn't take advantage.

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1 minute ago, forameuss said:

In the first half they were.  They looked like a weans team on the edge of tears, struggling to string together short passes.  And then, bafflingly, instead of keeping the foot on the throat and trying to get a second - which likely would have all but killed off the game - they decided to spend the next half an hour or so slowly letting Italy back into the game.  

Italy were largely dreadful, but England didn't take advantage.

This is it.

Italy didn’t do anything special. We just backed off them and gave them too much respect, which is so baffling considering we were all over them in the first 30 minutes. Then in the second half we didn’t make the changes required to take the initiative back. Mason Mount was the least effective player on the field and we kept him on for 100 minutes because…???

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27 minutes ago, mrw072 said:

Southgate reminds me of an NFL coach - very methodical and organised and very often risk averse.  I thought Italy were there for the taking in the 1st half - they could barely string two passes together.  He needs to learn how to kill good teams off I think.

I think when Italy came out for the 2nd half they were much improved and controlled things.  I think you're right when you say Mancini made good tactical choices.

He is an NFL fan and regularly pops up at the Superbowl. I'm pretty sure he has talked about watching NFL coaching sessions and what he has taken from that to soccer. 

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47 minutes ago, Federico said:

I just woke up after a weird night and a weird dream.

Has England destroyed us yet?

If you're referring to my post from days ago, you misread the context. It wasn't arrogance, I'm as laid back about England as they come. Our pace had the potential to cause you huge problems, ultimately it didn't. Wasn't hugely surprising given the manager, but I'm hardly in position to be overly critical given it's this approach that took us to the final (even if it's not to my taste).

Congratulations, I have no problem with Italy :thup:

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2 minutes ago, av3ry said:

Btw, I wanted Pickford to take the 5th. He was so pumped up I bet he puts it in the opposite corner to Maguire.

Channeling Kevin Pressman, who incidentally scored the best penalty i've ever seen in a shootout aginst Wolves

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3 minuti fa, av3ry ha scritto:

Think Italy will go on to break the unbeaten record now. Bulgaria and Switzerland next two games? Easy.

Swiss wIll be tough.

They've beaten......

 

 

 

 

FRANCE.

:D

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16 minutes ago, forameuss said:

In the first half they were.  They looked like a weans team on the edge of tears, struggling to string together short passes.  And then, bafflingly, instead of keeping the foot on the throat and trying to get a second - which likely would have all but killed off the game - they decided to spend the next half an hour or so slowly letting Italy back into the game.  

Italy were largely dreadful, but England didn't take advantage.

A game of opinions, I suppose. :D

 

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42 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

Showed them way too much respect in the middle part of the match. It felt like they played one of the games of their lives to get a 1-1 draw and we just never found the extra gear that we had showed in the other knockout games. Southgate maybe too cautious getting Sancho and Grealish on, but the likes of Sterling and Kane and Saka didn’t turn up.

Wonder how much difference the extra day’s rest made in the end. 

Kane had a good first 30 minutes when England were actually somewhat on the front foot but it's hard for attacking players to turn up when a lot of the game is being played deep inside your own half.

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1 minute ago, brett.spurs said:

Kane had a good first 30 minutes when England were actually somewhat on the front foot but it's hard for attacking players to turn up when a lot of the game is being played deep inside your own half.

It wasn’t the type of game where you expected him to be pushed up firing in loads of shots. But in the earlier games he was dropped back in midfield and spraying passes around and setting the runners off down the flanks. Didn’t see much of that either. Wouldn't single him out though, looked like one game too far for a few of them once we were ceding possession over and over. 

You do wonder what might have happened if we hadn’t scored early and if it could have played out more like the Germany game where we weren’t protecting a lead and inviting them on to us quite so much.

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