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Collective Press 4-4-2: An Underdog System


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Posted (edited)

Great read and nice results there! Btw did you make a mistake with season 2/3? If I'm right you said you won promotion from 3rd division to 2nd division in the first season, but the screenshot of the end of season 2 is a screenshot of the first division?

Didn't you use any specific Player Instructions on your defenders/GK?

Edited by JoOSTAR
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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, JoOSTAR said:

Great read and nice results there! Btw did you make a mistake with season 2/3? If I'm right you said you won promotion from 3rd division to 2nd division in the first season, but the screenshot of the end of season 2 is a screenshot of the first division?

Didn't you use any specific Player Instructions on your defenders/GK?

we won back-to-back promotions with the same squad & with the help of this system :)  So, to clarify:

1st season - Liga 3 (1st, promoted) media pred: 1

2nd season - Liga 2 (1st, promoted) media pred: 17

3rd season - Liga 1 (5th) media pred: 16

 

for defence & GK no instructions apart from the following for both wing-backs:

884f68cf5fb35b0aa567e2152997410a.png

Edited by LPQR
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5 minutes ago, LPQR said:

we won back-to-back promotions with the same squad & with the help of this system :)  So, to clarify:

1st season - Liga 3 (1st, promoted) media pred: 1

2nd season - Liga 2 (1st, promoted) media pred: 17

3rd season - Liga 1 (5th) media pred: 16

 

for defence & GK no instructions apart from the following for both wing-backs:

884f68cf5fb35b0aa567e2152997410a.png

Ok thanks man!

DLP & IW(A) also without instructions? I'm going to try this one out in Lower League as well, I'll let you know my results.

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1 minute ago, JoOSTAR said:

Ok thanks man!

DLP & IW(A) also without instructions? I'm going to try this one out in Lower League as well, I'll let you know my results.

It depends what kind of player you have available there. Once I got my hands on a bit more of a creative player with better passing & off the ball rating, I've gone for these instructions:

d9f4886cd7d9e11ce42262c646fb0001.png

Before that, I've used these instructions for the role since my player was very strong physically but otherwise technically extremely poor:

ebae993db3de4dfe45743fa6cf07fd6d.png

Lemme know how it goes! :)

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Posted (edited)

I actually ran a similar system to great success starting with a Slovak league second division club, we are now dominating the first division, but still getting destroyed as soon as we scrape into champions league groups or Europa league, any approach for these style of games?

Edited by mc22
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6 minutes ago, Prolix said:

Shoot Less Often on the 2x strikers and 2x wingers to counteract the Extremely High tempo?

Yes, to counteract extremely high tempo coupled with the positive mentality which will push players to take more risks. Thing is it depends a lot on your players - if you have fantastic decision makers with better finishing and shooting stats in those positions you might not want to restrict that with 'shoot less often'. Bear in mind I've adapted my tactic to restrict as much as possible individual errors due to overall very low technical & mental quality in my squad

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18 minutes ago, mc22 said:

I actually ran a similar system to great success starting with a Slovak league second division club, we are now dominating the first division, but still getting destroyed as soon as we scrape into champions league groups or Europa league, any approach for these style of games?

I alternate mentality usually depending on how the opposition play. For example if I see a very midfield-heavy team that's pressing me high up and suffocating my build up play I usually switch from positive to attacking which results in more long balls forward for my strikers. Other times when I see that we are being too aggressive and the opposition is using that to their advantage (gegepress usually) I switch to balanced so they can have less situations where we make it easy for them to win the ball high up the pitch

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Nice thread! 

I also play a 442 and have had some success with it

1: but I usually suffer against better teams with 3 man midfield(433, 4231) . How do you deal with teams who have an extra man in midfield than you? 

2: what is your approach to defending against better opponents? (like pressing, LOE and OIs etc.) 

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On 03/07/2021 at 10:23, mouli said:

Nice thread! 

I also play a 442 and have had some success with it

1: but I usually suffer against better teams with 3 man midfield(433, 4231) . How do you deal with teams who have an extra man in midfield than you? 

2: what is your approach to defending against better opponents? (like pressing, LOE and OIs etc.) 

Not OP, but I've started playing 4-4-2 recently and I opt to man mark the most defensive midfielder with one of my strikers. Also helps with narrow defending since opposition CBs have their first central passing option blocked.

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First of all, very nice threat! Ik really like the approach, and it is something i've been trying to create myself. 

Funny thing is, i'm also managing in Romania (Aerostar Bacau). 

I suspect that your rightsided WM acts a lot like a WP, am i right? 

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On 03/07/2021 at 12:23, mouli said:

Nice thread! 

I also play a 442 and have had some success with it

1: but I usually suffer against better teams with 3 man midfield(433, 4231) . How do you deal with teams who have an extra man in midfield than you? 

2: what is your approach to defending against better opponents? (like pressing, LOE and OIs etc.) 

 In these scenarios I sometimes push the D-line up and bring the engagement line down and this makes the team shape more compact. This hugely affects counter transitions though since the ball will not cover much ground moving quickly to the furthest player up the pitch so it can have a negative effect on the attacking phase. Apart from that I don't fiddle much in terms of opposition tbh, just changing mentality whenever I see fit.

 

16 hours ago, branco2511 said:

First of all, very nice threat! Ik really like the approach, and it is something i've been trying to create myself. 

Funny thing is, i'm also managing in Romania (Aerostar Bacau). 

I suspect that your rightsided WM acts a lot like a WP, am i right? 

Good luck with Aerostar mate, should be fun! 

Yes and no :D what I love about the WM is that it's a 'workhorse role' and a 'team role' compared to basically any other role on the wings (perhaps DW excepted) so it will assist the defensive phase a lot and, from my experience, be a lot less inclined towards individual action. Also it will not 'attract' the ball like a WP does since I dont want to focus play on the right wing only - I aim to keep teams' attacking phase balanced in terms of what's the best in that moment (what I wrote above regarding pass into space + extremely high tempo)

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This is great, always enjoy your threads.

It was touched on above, but how did you feel "Much Higher Tempo" affected things? I've rarely got on with that TI in lower leagues as it tended to result in a lot of wasted possession, on various sysytems, because their composure and decision making is just not up to scratch.

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20 hours ago, Craigus89 said:

This is great, always enjoy your threads.

It was touched on above, but how did you feel "Much Higher Tempo" affected things? I've rarely got on with that TI in lower leagues as it tended to result in a lot of wasted possession, on various sysytems, because their composure and decision making is just not up to scratch.

Well, first of all possession is not the goal of this system, since what I wanted to achieve is:

1) Moving the ball quickly from back to front

2) Manipulating space in a manner that places players available for a pass forward - this is huge for any system that aims to play at high tempo. If you do not set up the team shape and player movement so that you can provide a good range of passing options for your players it will make any system very un-efficient

3) Technically counter-attacking football. Yes, that's right, even though the mentality is positive everything else in the tactical set up implies a counter system. Even the AI started recognizing that as our board consistently mentions how pleased they are 'with the defensive & counter attacking football displayed of late'

Regarding mentality it has absolutely huge implications when it comes to these two team instructions (much higher tempo + pass into space). By moving from positive to attacking for example you will see a very significant increase in the passing tempo and the other way around - move to defensive mentality and passing will be much much slower.

So finding the balance that suits your team is quite tricky. Technically, you are correct - the lower the stats for decision making, composure, passing and vision the more risks of lost possession, however it's always a question of how much lower than the league average are these stats for your players rather than how low they are overall. 

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  • 3 months later...

haha, finally a thread about someone managing a Romanian side, even in 3rd division.

Since I got the game, I played my saves 90% in Romania with a first division newly promoted, FC Arges, and my strategy / tactics is quite similar. I also play a 442 (sometimes a 4411). Curently I have two main tactics, a very defensive one when I have to protect a lead and the main one which is very similar with yours with some minor differences e.g. I regroup instead of press and  I attack normal not narrow. 

This counter tactic helped me to win Cup and Championship and make the team a regular in Champions League in 10 yrs. Now I restarted and I build even more strategically, meaning picking coaches who fit 442 and training all junior /second team this way.

Anyway, what sparked my interest is the WM and his PI, especially the cut inside which makes him a Wide Playmaker. However, I prefered to set similar instructions with yours because my WM have a good shooting from range and the trait hence I didn't wanted to set him as WP (also I wanted him to attack more directly).

What I like about this tactic is that somehow resemble Steaua 86 with its pace and explosion. I watched that team live many times.

Now I feel the need of a more control possession tactic with my save since many are camping and don't attack as much and I made some changes to the roles. 

                PF PF (TQ?)

W  CM(d)              WM

                Regista

      FB CD    CD  WB

I'll also have to find space for an awesome TQ coming from academy but doesn't work so well until now so I'll have to make more tweaks.

Anyway, great read, I'm glad I found it even if much later after you post it. 

 

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56 minutes ago, CharlieTZR said:

What I like about this tactic is that somehow resemble Steaua 86 with its pace and explosion. I watched that team live many times.

 

Funnily enough, I am in my 16th season with this youth-only save, have had some phenomenal results with this tactic (arguably better than Steaua 86 :D), might do a write up soon if there's any interest

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I didn't had the patience to play over 2032 (when I lost Europa League final to PSV Eindhoven), I restarted two times. Also I didn't played youth only but I will probably try.  

Yeah would be nice to post it. I plan to start a similar thread with FM22. 

 

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, lipebtavares said:

if i put a TM in place of the attack function PF will it work?

I haven't tried that - technically speaking the TM would have different behaviour in the sense that it will look to play more with back to goal, bringing others into play and creating space for on-runners. In the above system these functions are performed, more or less, by the PF(S). The PF(a) has a more 'free role' (hence the 'roam from position' instruction) - he is supposed to focus less on making space for others and more in finding space to attack the final ball, so basically think of it like an advanced forward or a poacher but one that assists the team in pressing.

Nevertheless, you could try that, it might bring a new dimension to the tactic, who knows :)

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