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Match 31 and Match 32: Czech Republic vs England (ITV1 live from Wembley) & Croatia vs Scotland (ITV4 live from Hampden Park) at 8pm (BST)


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Fixing this absolute shambles of an opening thread (seriously if you're going to make a thread, do it properly, or don't bother, its annoying) - themadsheep2001

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Table as it stands, England and Czech Republic are both through courtesy of results last night, so they will face off for the (dubious) right to face off against France/Germany/Portugal

Meanwhile Scotland and Croatia is a winner take all game, with the victor qualifying for sure, however, should they draw, Ukraine will qualify

Will Croatia finally turn up?

Will England play some decent football

Can Scotland finally stop snatching defeat from the jaws of victory?

And is Harry Kane actually just a statue wearing an England shirt?

Find out all this and more tonight!

 

 

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1 hour ago, georginho_juventusygr said:

England need a win to stay in London?

Yeah. Win and we finish 1st. Draw and we finish 2nd. Lose and we finish 2nd or 3rd depending on the result of the other game.

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1 hour ago, The_jagster said:

Now you just need to sort out a decent OP

Yeah, seriously, create a much better opening post rather than trying to be first, please, or it'll just get closed. I'm a grump that way

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Have never been this nervous for a game of football in my entire 28 years of living on this planet. 

24 hours time we could be witnessing history or it could be the usual Scotland failure. 

Let's go for it from the start. 

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Fully expect a turgid 0-0 at Wembley.

In some respects I hope Mount is out so we're forced to make a midfield change. Obviously it would be ideal to win to get another Wembley game, but it has hardly been a catalyst for dazzling football so far.

Yes, I am grumpy and until this shower of **** deliver something resembling cohesive attacking football, I'm staying that way.

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How can there be any sort of incentive to win this group as that simply means you'll be playing the 2nd team from the group of death?

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Well from an England perspective winning the group means getting to play at Wembley 2nd round round instead of Copenhagen and potentially Russia in QFs. 

Theres a good chance that 2nd will play Spain and then the winners of group of death in quarter finals. Which is still pretty tough.

1st could be Germany/France at home and then Sweden in Rome. 2nd could be Spain in Denmark and then France/Germany in Russia. 

 

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1 minute ago, Darius1998 said:

Well, it hasn't worked with 11 but maybe picking 12 players will help the attack out a little more.

Might as well let England have that, its not  like UEFA are not bending over backwards to ensure they win it.

Constant home games, even in a COVID riddled nation. Refs who speak English... TV channels that no matter who is playing, have huge England segments. Jack bloody Grealish ffs, I mean if UEFA was fair, they wouldnt let him be included in the squad, its like putting a 21 year old in an under 8s tournament.

So England lining up with 12 makes sense as the next step to ensure the homeness of coming.

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groupd.png.1455175d044bc37f5de8670c0ef984f3.png

England vs Czech obviously important in terms of how the draw plays out in the knockout stages, but in terms of qualification it doesn't matter.

Scotland vs Croatia is where the drama is. A win for either team sends them through. A draw knocks them both out and qualifies Ukraine for the knockout stages.

N.B. Feel free to steal this for the OP... ;) 

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1 hour ago, skybluedave said:

And also regarding England, if they serious about going far this sunmer they should probably focus on knocking out a good attacking performance instead of trying to sh*thouse the draw

Don't let Southgate hear you say that, I mean what good would playing to the squads strengths achieve...

2-0 tonight, Kane to grab both and football starts it journey home. Though in reality I'm fully expecting to spend the 90mins tonight moaning on here about just about everything England do or more likely don't do.

 

Edited by VP.
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England Czech Republic has the feel of a friendly, might be a goal or two but no sense of jeopardy.

Croatia and Scotland has the potential to be tense and exciting but I think it will be cagey. Croatia have been toothless so far but I think Scotland will be quite cautious in case they concede, you can see Perisic doing something in a way that seems unlikely from Scotland's forward players. From a tournament perspective a draw would mean Ukraine go through who have at least bothered to go forward.

Edited by The_jagster
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Win the group. Play Hungary when Hungary pull off the upset and beat Germany to finish second in Group F. Then it’s Sweden or Slovakia or someone in the quarters, Denmark or Holland or Wales at Wembley in the semis.

I mean we could do that or we could try and throw tonight’s game and end up in the same half of the draw as Italy, Belgium and France.

Edited by Rob1981
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Probably watch the Scotland game to be honest, potentially the biggest night in their history if they get through to the knockouts for the first time. Rather that than yet another England post mortem when we haven’t won 5-0.

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10 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

Probably watch the Scotland game to be honest, potentially the biggest night in their history if they get through to the knockouts for the first time. Rather that than yet another England post mortem when we haven’t won 5-0.

giphy.gif

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Here are the latest probabilities for the second round matchups. I mean I don’t fear this Germany side, especially in a home game at Wembley. But England v Germany yet again when two of the other R16 ties are Wales v Denmark and potentially Sweden v Ukraine.

Think we used up all our luck in 2018.

3CC5BCF6-61A1-4BC8-938D-4C8C26801BB3.jpeg

Edited by Rob1981
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31 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

Here are the latest probabilities for the second round matchups. I mean I don’t fear this Germany side, especially in a home game at Wembley. But England v Germany yet again when two of the other R16 ties are Wales v Denmark and potentially Sweden v Ukraine.

Think we used up all our luck in 2018.

3CC5BCF6-61A1-4BC8-938D-4C8C26801BB3.jpeg

I don't want to be that guy but I think we should go the route we went in Russia, but as they say "you can only beat what's infront of you" and Germany would be a good omen given we beat Colombia in the 2nd round

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42 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

England need to find some rhythm in this game, ahead of potential tough second round ties.

This. We should be of course aiming to win tonight's game and top the group and maintain the Wembley 'advantage' as much as we possibly can. Also helps in terms of less travel for the player and disruption etc. Plus finding some attacking momentum going into the KO stages is pretty important. 

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Because if a 3rd place team from Group F makes it through, that team is highly likely to be playing Holland. There's only one scenario where 3rd place in Group F makes it through and then doesn't play Holland.

And according to that guy in the tweet, Portugal are the most likely team to finish 3rd. Which makes sense - for them not to finish 3rd they'd need to beat France most likely. A draw would only be good enough to avoid finishing 3rd if Germany lose to Hungary.

Edit: Of course they could also not finish 3rd by losing to France, but again that would also rely on Germany losing.

Edited by Astafjevs
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11 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Yeah, seriously, create a much better opening post rather than trying to be first, please, or it'll just get closed. I'm a grump that way

I don't mind you mods editting it, but is there any tips on how to make an OP without you editting it a lot :)

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1 hour ago, Rob1981 said:

Here are the latest probabilities for the second round matchups. I mean I don’t fear this Germany side, especially in a home game at Wembley. But England v Germany yet again when two of the other R16 ties are Wales v Denmark and potentially Sweden v Ukraine.

Think we used up all our luck in 2018.

3CC5BCF6-61A1-4BC8-938D-4C8C26801BB3.jpeg

 Not necessarily, it’s very plausible to end up in a QF with Sweden or Ukraine depending how the groups pan out by winning the group. Would take that game on neutral and the big teams on home turf for sure.

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2 hours ago, Astafjevs said:

Because if a 3rd place team from Group F makes it through, that team is highly likely to be playing Holland. There's only one scenario where 3rd place in Group F makes it through and then doesn't play Holland.

Ohhhh, I see

I had Scotland finishing as a 3rd qualifier in my predictor

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6 hours ago, skybluedave said:

And also regarding England, if they serious about going far this sunmer they should probably focus on knocking out a good attacking performance instead of trying to sh*thouse the draw

Despite all our attacking talent, I have a feeling that we'll go out in the next round of this tournament having scored 2 goals in 4 games.

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8 minutes ago, hairwad said:

Is level points ordered on goal difference or head to head?

According to this:

https://en.as.com/en/2021/06/10/football/1623313366_179645.html

Quote

 

Head-to-head record

1. Number of points gained in matches played among the teams level on points

2. Goal difference in matches played among the teams level on points

3. Goals scored in matches played among the teams level on points

4. If criteria 1 to 3 fail to separate some but not all of the countries level on points, they are reapplied exclusively to the teams who still have an equal ranking

Overall group record

5. Goal difference in all group matches

6. Goals scored in all group matches

7. Penalty shoot-out (but only in specific circumstances - see below)

8. Number of wins in all group matches

Fair-play record

9. Lowest number of disciplinary points accrued during group stage (three points per straight red card; three points per sending-off for two yellow cards; and one point per yellow card)

Qualifying record

10. Position in overall rankings in qualifying for Euro 2020

 

 

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I'd love to be confident ahead of tonight. But confidence is dangerous in Scotland. It kills more people than lightning strikes. Mainly thanks to people being confident that they won't be struck by lightning. Gonna be cautious and say 6-0 Croatia. 

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5 minutes ago, Tikka Mezzala said:

I'd love to be confident ahead of tonight. But confidence is dangerous in Scotland. It kills more people than lightning strikes. Mainly thanks to people being confident that they won't be struck by lightning. Gonna be cautious and say 6-0 Croatia. 

At least for tonight it's very simple, win by any margin and we're through, don't and we're out. No goal difference, goals scored, head to head or any other such shenanigans or oddities to undo us. Just win or lose.

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2 minutes ago, Obi-Wan Kenobi said:

At least for tonight it's very simple, win by any margin and we're through, don't and we're out. No goal difference, goals scored, head to head or any other such shenanigans or oddities to undo us. Just win or lose.

I just don't see goals in this side. Concede even once and it becomes a huge ask. To be fair, we've had chances this tournament and ought to have scored a couple already, but it just feels like we need to labour more than most to create clear cut openings. Maybe it's the lack of creativity in the side. 

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4 minutes ago, Obi-Wan Kenobi said:

At least for tonight it's very simple, win by any margin and we're through, don't and we're out. No goal difference, goals scored, head to head or any other such shenanigans or oddities to undo us. Just win or lose.

last time we were in that situation was Morocco in France 98 and I feel a lot of the players were overconfident because of who it was, they'd probably say I'm wrong but I remember watching that and feeling we went into the game like that

this time around it's a team who got to a World Cup Final last time out, maybe not as good as they used to be but they still have players like Modric, Perisic and others who can create and score in an instant.  I feel it's another glorious failure one coming up though, too much hype and I feel we could get caught in the "should we go for it at the start or try and play the game to a point and then go for it"

there is of course the main issue of "who will score" :D which is something you need to solve, unless we get another own goal in this tournament which could happen but we'd have to keep Croatia out which I doubt we will

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4 minutes ago, Tikka Mezzala said:

I just don't see goals in this side. Concede even once and it becomes a huge ask. To be fair, we've had chances this tournament and ought to have scored a couple already, but it just feels like we need to labour more than most to create clear cut openings. Maybe it's the lack of creativity in the side. 

Yeah, agree with this.

Nightmare scenario is Croatia scoring early as that is probably game over. Hoping we can survive early, grow into the game and at least give ourselves the opportunity to win the match.

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I’m sure this will have been covered but a draw tonight sees Scotland hold the outright record for most-group-stage-exits-without-ever-reaching-the-knockouts for both the World Cup AND the Euros. I mean that is a fantastic effort.

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9 minutes ago, Tikka Mezzala said:

I just don't see goals in this side. Concede even once and it becomes a huge ask. To be fair, we've had chances this tournament and ought to have scored a couple already, but it just feels like we need to labour more than most to create clear cut openings. Maybe it's the lack of creativity in the side. 

There isn't many goals in us this is true, but then you don't need many. Our crosses & set pieces need to improve, that I see is our best chance for goals from regular play. (Shame there's no penalties after draws like there's been in the League Cup group stages, then we'd be fine. :D)

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5 minutes ago, Obi-Wan Kenobi said:

There isn't many goals in us this is true

I'd agree, we're very predictable. Kane into the midfield and Sterling tried to dance between the defenders for a chance. 

But there's no reason really we couldn't be more threatening. 

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9 minutes ago, hairwad said:

So if I'm reading that right then there's no way Croatia can finish above England? Which means the only way of England finishing 3rd is by England losing and Scotland winning by a combined 3 goal swing?

Correct.

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image.png.b1e90aaa620a3f0a995a1fb24eee4d27.png

Scotland could overtake England on GD but can't overtake Czechs based on h2h
Croatia could overtake Czechs on GD but can't overtake England based on h2h

Bottom right is the only scenario that sees England finishing third.  One combination of results of out nine possibilities.  And even then you need the GD swing.

The sidenote covered higher up is that a Croatia v Scotland draw knocks both of them out but does qualify Ukraine, who would then be assured of being at least the 4th best third place team.

Edited by Rob1981
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9 hours ago, Norfair said:

How can there be any sort of incentive to win this group as that simply means you'll be playing the 2nd team from the group of death?

This. There’s absolutely no reason not to be resting most of our players for this game. Give the youngsters a run out. 

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