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After gratefully receiving all your advice….this happens. Whatever the tactic these crazy results always happen.


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So general advice was be more positive with Spurs. Be more ambitious. Which I did. Kane hasn’t scored for 10 games as a complete forward Attack in a 4231 tactic. Losing more than I win. I think this game isn’t a simulation anymore. Again am I missing something but sheff untied are not Brazil 1970. Spurs aren’t this bad. My tactics are variations on preset themes. I’m not asking my gk to play as a striker. What is going on ??!!

I lost 4-1. They had 20 shots to our 7. Mousset AKA messi scored a barnstorming hat trick. Kane didn’t have a chance. I play FMT on iPad. It feels like something is wrong. Whatever tactic, however aggressive or passive. I always end up mid table with Spurs with Harry Kane hardly scoring. 

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i doubt that anyone gave you the advice, to play a possession oriented football with 2 wingers,  no deep runners and counter ti. 

Why dont you start with JUST using positive mentality, and make THAT work without using any other instructions. If you start winning, then you can slightly adjust your style of play.

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16 minutes ago, FulchesterFred said:

So general advice was be more positive with Spurs. Be more ambitious. Which I did. Kane hasn’t scored for 10 games as a complete forward Attack in a 4231 tactic. Losing more than I win. I think this game isn’t a simulation anymore. Again am I missing something but sheff untied are not Brazil 1970. Spurs aren’t this bad. My tactics are variations on preset themes. I’m not asking my gk to play as a striker. What is going on ??!!

Sorry, but looking at your tactic, it does not look particularly positive. Unless you are referring to the "positive" team mentality? Which btw means little (if anything) without the context of the tactic as a whole (with the setup of roles and duties being the key element of it). 

I can list all obvious (as well as some less obvious) flaws of your tactic if you want me to.

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Eric Dier is beyond slow, there's no way you will get away with playing him in a high line. 

You have two wingers yet want to work ball into box, if they do cross (which the aforementioned TI looks to reduce) then they have one target which is Kane, if he doesn't win the ball then you're just wasting time and possession. Two static playmakers is going to isolate Kane. 

I don't like regroup with this formation, you have players high up the pitch so why not counter press? If you don't like counter press then just leave that particular TI alone, you don't have to pick one or the other. 

It's pretty obvious why you lost this game, Kane is isolated, your wingers are crossing to one player (who is up against three), they counter down your flanks and put balls over your high line (I repeat, Eric Dier cannot play in a high line) and Mousset exploits the space. I seriously cannot see how you'd create chances with this tactic other than crossing (which your own TI is trying to stop). The tiki taka preset does not have wingers as  recommended roles for the 4-2-3-1, so you've chose these roles yourself. Can you explain why? Because Dele is not a playmaker, Ndombele has excellent dribbling and flair but poor defensive attributes, so he's wasted as a static deep midfielder, you'd want him carrying the ball surely? 

You're massively overcomplicating things I think. Your players don't fit their roles and you have poor support all over the pitch. What football do you want to play?

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As Carrera pointed out in this thread and people have pointed out in your previous thread, just start with the most simple stuff possible. Remove ALL TIs, see what happens and then actually go from there.

As it stands there's just so much things that make absolutely no sense, the TIs by themselves, the roles by themselves, the roles and TIs combined, pretty much none of it is coherent.

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😂 

im going to take a break. I’ve always won back to back with Spurs. This version must be much less forgiving.

ive got 2 wingers btw as Sheff United are so narrow. I don’t want them to lump it into the box, I want them to work their way to the byline and slip a low cross back to Kane or dele etc. 
my high line is covered by Sanchez who isn’t slow. I haven’t got wing backs. So they’re not too far forward.

kane is a complete forward so should be able to get involved anywhere.

ndombele isn’t static. And is defensively ok. Especially when covered by Pierre.

@Bluebird123in all fairness you called it perfectly. It’s exactly what happened.

 

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19 minutes ago, FulchesterFred said:

😂

im going to take a break. I’ve always won back to back with Spurs. This version must be much less forgiving.

ive got 2 wingers btw as Sheff United are so narrow. I don’t want them to lump it into the box, I want them to work their way to the byline and slip a low cross back to Kane or dele etc. 
my high line is covered by Sanchez who isn’t slow. I haven’t got wing backs. So they’re not too far forward.

kane is a complete forward so should be able to get involved anywhere.

ndombele isn’t static. And is defensively ok. Especially when covered by Pierre.

@Bluebird123in all fairness you called it perfectly. It’s exactly what happened.

 

Cut backs - Kane is set for this, Dele is waiting to feed someone vs getting into the box for the cut back due his AP-S role. Even then. it's the same 2 players, which can then be man marked (Even more so with the extra defender in that zone from the opposition).

As someone who plays Spurs - Don't play a high line in Season 1. Toby and Dier are not made for it. YES, you have Sanchez who can cover, but that's 1 player with only an ok concentration attribute for that role. Stopper\Cover can also negate the offside trap, so they are not ideal to be tagged on together.

If you play high LOE and try to counter how will that work? Your already up the field there's no space to counter to. + Look at the pace of Kane\Dele for that matter

Overall it's one-dimentional, and lacks variety, which is going to be key in breaking teams down.

 

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Went wing play preset. 
nah it just ain’t happening. This result isn’t in isolation. Even when Ive played with neutral tactics wins are sporadic and inconsistent. I’ve rarely seen a version with such a lack of nuance IMO. if one team is better on the day they seem to be much better and vice versa. No way should mousset be beating up my defence. Maybe nick a goal but not rip us to shreds. 

again I really appreciate your attempts to help an old fart out of his depth but FMT on iPad isn’t flowing. I think it replicates the ME but with all the full fat inputs missing (tactical prep etc) FMT suffers. 

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18 minutes ago, plcarlos said:

Cut backs - Kane is set for this, Dele is waiting to feed someone vs getting into the box for the cut back due his AP-S role. Even then. it's the same 2 players, which can then be man marked (Even more so with the extra defender in that zone from the opposition).

As someone who plays Spurs - Don't play a high line in Season 1. Toby and Dier are not made for it. YES, you have Sanchez who can cover, but that's 1 player with only an ok concentration attribute for that role. Stopper\Cover can also negate the offside trap, so they are not ideal to be tagged on together.

If you play high LOE and try to counter how will that work? Your already up the field there's no space to counter to. + Look at the pace of Kane\Dele for that matter

Overall it's one-dimentional, and lacks variety, which is going to be key in breaking teams down.

 

How do you do with Spurs?
When you say 1 dimensional in what respect? Should I set position swaps? 

in terms of 3 defenders against 1 striker IRL I’ve seen plenty of goals from the lone man. It’s not some instant goal prevention system. All he needs is movement and strong finishing. IRL Kane obviously has that in buckets.

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21 minutes ago, FulchesterFred said:

Went wing play preset. 
nah it just ain’t happening. This result isn’t in isolation. Even when Ive played with neutral tactics wins are sporadic and inconsistent. I’ve rarely seen a version with such a lack of nuance IMO. if one team is better on the day they seem to be much better and vice versa. No way should mousset be beating up my defence. Maybe nick a goal but not rip us to shreds. 

again I really appreciate your attempts to help an old fart out of his depth but FMT on iPad isn’t flowing. I think it replicates the ME but with all the full fat inputs missing (tactical prep etc) FMT suffers. 

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You're just changing things for the sake of it now, why wing play exactly? This tactic looks like the other one instead now you have Dele in a more mobile role and you're playing kick and rush football. The wing play preset doesn't have an AP in the middle so why have you chosen it? He's hardly going to see much of the ball (plus you've fallen into the trap of having limited numbers in the box again)

You are motivating me to try a save with Spurs, I feel you're completely misusing the squad tbh

 

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46 minutes ago, FulchesterFred said:

Went wing play preset. 
nah it just ain’t happening

Apart from the fact that wing play as a tactical style is not optimally suited to a team like the Spurs, I don't think you'll see much luck with preset tactics in general, given the amount of tactical overkill they contain. 

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47 minutes ago, FulchesterFred said:

How do you do with Spurs?
When you say 1 dimensional in what respect? Should I set position swaps? 

in terms of 3 defenders against 1 striker IRL I’ve seen plenty of goals from the lone man. It’s not some instant goal prevention system. All he needs is movement and strong finishing. IRL Kane obviously has that in buckets.

IRL does not transfer to FM. I wish it did, but i've never seen Kane even attempt some of the worldie Goals\Assists he can do IRL. You need to be a bit more realistic in that regard.

That also applies to FM vs IRL when it come to a 3 vs 1. If they defend  close, Kane's FM Physicals are not that good to get away from them.

1 Dimensional in that both Full-backs have the same role. the 1 Winger gets forward and the the other just crosses. There's 1 target in the box. There's only 1 route to the box, and limited players attacking the box.

I play the full version on PC, have never played the mobile. But I tend to push for league sometimes and normally end up 4th or so. Spurs in FM are a work in progress. It's 2-3 seasons to get anywhere really, and you'll have some real schokers along the way. It's painful, But I play a LONG save, and I'm heavily focused on youth development.

I played a 4-2-3-1 Positive. NO TI's. I'd advise the same. TI's can overcomplicate a lot. Below is what I started out as:

                       DLF-A\S

IF-A\S          AMC-S\SS           W-S

               CM-D DLP-S\CM-S

FB-A\WB-S    CD-D   CD-D    FB-S

Now a lot of that was based on player traits, and what I saw in matches. Example a player with Gets-Foward often will sometimes get forward more that the Support role they are in. Sometimes I dropped the IF-A to IF-S and AMC to SS along with Kane as the DLF-S. These were more changes vs lower teams to create space to attack. DLP-S vs CM-S is still toy with now 4 years in. the DLP is a magent TO the ball and CM-S is more central. Of course, seeing this allows me to react accordingly.

You've gone the complete opposite in tacticts now. Do you want results or a style of play?

BWM-D does not hold as much as we think and can be a risk in the middle. Dier shold not be played as a cover. The flanks will get exposed, and you'd get hit on the counter, which is what the opposition has so many quality shots.

 

Edited by plcarlos
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Much like real life, this Spurs squad just isn't very good and it seems like you no longer have Son on top of that as well (or he's at least out injured).

Whilst it is doable to win the league with the starting squad, you need a helluva lot to go your way. Top 6, maybe squeaking into top 4, is a more realistic expectation whilst your building this Spurs team.

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59 minutes ago, plcarlos said:

IRL does not transfer to FM. I wish it did, but i've never seen Kane even attempt some of the worldie Goals\Assists he can do IRL. You need to be a bit more realistic in that regard.

That also applies to FM vs IRL when it come to a 3 vs 1. If they defend  close, Kane's FM Physicals are not that good to get away from them.

1 Dimensional in that both Full-backs have the same role. the 1 Winger gets forward and the the other just crosses. There's 1 target in the box. There's only 1 route to the box, and limited players attacking the box.

I play the full version on PC, have never played the mobile. But I tend to push for league sometimes and normally end up 4th or so. Spurs in FM are a work in progress. It's 2-3 seasons to get anywhere really, and you'll have some real schokers along the way. It's painful, But I play a LONG save, and I'm heavily focused on youth development.

I played a 4-2-3-1 Positive. NO TI's. I'd advise the same. TI's can overcomplicate a lot. Below is what I started out as:

                       DLF-A\S

IF-A\S          AMC-S\SS           W-S

               CM-D DLP-S\CM-S

FB-A\WB-S    CD-D   CD-D    FB-S

Now a lot of that was based on player traits, and what I saw in matches. Example a player with Gets-Foward often will sometimes get forward more that the Support role they are in. Sometimes I dropped the IF-A to IF-S and AMC to SS along with Kane as the DLF-S. These were more changes vs lower teams to create space to attack. DLP-S vs CM-S is still toy with now 4 years in. the DLP is a magent TO the ball and CM-S is more central. Of course, seeing this allows me to react accordingly.

You've gone the complete opposite in tacticts now. Do you want results or a style of play?

BWM-D does not hold as much as we think and can be a risk in the middle. Dier shold not be played as a cover. The flanks will get exposed, and you'd get hit on the counter, which is what the opposition has so many quality shots.

 

That’s great to read. Interesting. A lot of advice just to completely drop TIs.

Spurs definitely are a tough proposition. Hence why we can’t find a new manager 😂 

I know it’s not real life but a simulation of that. To me, on iPad, the game felt more real a few years ago. It’s important to stress that tablet FMT is not FM mobile. The ME is identical to full fat. But I do think the tablet version is struggling to keep pace. To genuinely prepare for a match so much input is required which FM touch doesn’t provide 

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16 minutes ago, NotSoSpecialOne said:

Much like real life, this Spurs squad just isn't very good and it seems like you no longer have Son on top of that as well (or he's at least out injured).

Whilst it is doable to win the league with the starting squad, you need a helluva lot to go your way. Top 6, maybe squeaking into top 4, is a more realistic expectation whilst your building this Spurs team.

Spot on. He’s injured. As is bale. For some reason this year in multiple saves and tactics I’ve really struggled to get Kane and son scoring. Kane misses loads of pens and seems to rarely get chances. Other versions were much more generous with him, although his attributes are world class.

funnily enough in my very first league match of my first save on 21 (before any updates). I beat WBA 11-0 with Son scoring 8 goals, mostly assisted by Kane. I posted it on the forum saying I love the new game haha. I think the developers realised (I’m sure without my input) they were overpowered but have gone too far the other way.

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1 hour ago, Bluebird123 said:

You're just changing things for the sake of it now, why wing play exactly? This tactic looks like the other one instead now you have Dele in a more mobile role and you're playing kick and rush football. The wing play preset doesn't have an AP in the middle so why have you chosen it? He's hardly going to see much of the ball (plus you've fallen into the trap of having limited numbers in the box again)

You are motivating me to try a save with Spurs, I feel you're completely misusing the squad tbh

 

I was just trying random things. I understand the attacking points but defensively, despite more caution, we’re still conceding what I think is an utterly unrealistic number of chances. I think there is a serious flaw on the FMT ME this year. As I have mentioned above. I know my tactics are sometimes flawed but it feels like very average teams can tear you apart in quite an unrealistic way. I think this is mitigated on full fat but really exposed on FM Touch

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There is another problem in your case as well: you seem to expect that the quality of (your) players (like Kane, for example) will compensate for tactical deficiencies. It may be possible, but only to a limited degree. 

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1 hour ago, FulchesterFred said:

I was just trying random things. I understand the attacking points but defensively, despite more caution, we’re still conceding what I think is an utterly unrealistic number of chances. I think there is a serious flaw on the FMT ME this year. As I have mentioned above. I know my tactics are sometimes flawed but it feels like very average teams can tear you apart in quite an unrealistic way. I think this is mitigated on full fat but really exposed on FM Touch

I think in that tactic you are too cautious if anything, a lower LOE with a balanced mentality will likely see you too deep. You would be allowing the Sheffield Utd WBs to advance too much into your own half

I had a quick look at Spurs squad earlier, they have a good midfield to play a 4-3-3 and utilise a mid-block with some counter pressing (honestly it's undeniable the game favours it so I feel it's daft to not use it if your players are capable), Hojberg is a good ball winner and Lo Celso is surprisingly competent defensively. This way you can protect the cart horses in defence while engaging the opposition a bit so they aren't dominating you. I think with a 4-3-3 you can free Ndombele and allow him to link up with the front 3 (which if you can get Bale/Son fit you have arguably the best front three in the PL). 

You just haven't got the balance right in either set up. Both tactics are too predictable but the difference is one you are exposing your slow defence and the other you are set up too passively (especially for a club like Spurs, this is essentially what got Jose fired). 

In fairness Spurs get beat by average sides now and then, their squad in the first season is pretty shocking and needs a bit of work. If you can stick at it and try to make a tactic based on the advice you're given here I think you can make it work long term

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6 hours ago, Bluebird123 said:

I think in that tactic you are too cautious if anything, a lower LOE with a balanced mentality will likely see you too deep. You would be allowing the Sheffield Utd WBs to advance too much into your own half

I had a quick look at Spurs squad earlier, they have a good midfield to play a 4-3-3 and utilise a mid-block with some counter pressing (honestly it's undeniable the game favours it so I feel it's daft to not use it if your players are capable), Hojberg is a good ball winner and Lo Celso is surprisingly competent defensively. This way you can protect the cart horses in defence while engaging the opposition a bit so they aren't dominating you. I think with a 4-3-3 you can free Ndombele and allow him to link up with the front 3 (which if you can get Bale/Son fit you have arguably the best front three in the PL). 

You just haven't got the balance right in either set up. Both tactics are too predictable but the difference is one you are exposing your slow defence and the other you are set up too passively (especially for a club like Spurs, this is essentially what got Jose fired). 

In fairness Spurs get beat by average sides now and then, their squad in the first season is pretty shocking and needs a bit of work. If you can stick at it and try to make a tactic based on the advice you're given here I think you can make it work long term

My best save to date was pre jan transfer Window where Spurs had some cash and I bought 2 CBs- it certainly is a big problem area for us IRL and in the game. 
it’s good advice again. I think my aim has to be get thru first season, try to win Euro league and then build. 
kane and son are woefully underpowered but I have to get through it.

CHEERS!

 

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I am looking at this tactic and scratching my head. Now while it looks ok, its still very predictable. Lucas Moura is pretty average as a winger, I am not sure what his acceleration is in your game but in mine its around 14, he is very good at dribbling with the ball. I for one would be more inclined to play him as an IW. He is so average as a regular winger who has suboptimal crossing numbers.  The DLF all he does is play the ball back to either the W or the WB, so why is the attack pattern so one dimensional?

The issue you are having isn't one about the basics, its really more about getting interesting attacking patterns going. If I had Moura, he would be an inverted winger playing on the left flank, he has a right foot and in that way when he does cut inside he also becomes a second striker. On the right flank I could opt for a more orthodox winger. I would then swap the positions of the two strikers so the DLF plays on the same flank as the IW.

If you are also playing a low line of engagement, why are your central defenders offset? Again it makes no sense, If you are not really committing to winning the ball higher up the pitch then you can afford to play the two central defenders on the same duty, unless one of the wingbacks is bombing down on attack.

And depending on your opposition formation, your line of engagement also affects how you attack. If you are so deep ALL narrow systems which play with wingbacks only are going to be able to come down the flanks and keep putting those wingbacks on the defensive. 

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Sheffield United are annoying on all my saves too. Mousset and other fast strikers like Callum Wilson on route-one tactics are too effective in the game IMO. Press and tightly mark their defenders so they have less time to lock-on target their longballs on Mousset. Tottenham forwards and wingers have the highest workrate in the league. They can do that. Forcing opposition wide also helps because Mousset will be less of a danger if he has to run towards the flanks.

Son and Kane are heavily pocketed by defenders game after game. They should do better if the entire team is more attacking, or someone stepping up among the shadows to try nick a goal. Dele is very good with his arrival and movement into the box, even if you stationed him much deeper in midfield. Better if you can get Ndombele and Winks to join in as well.

Hojbjerg alone as a deep playmaker, despite his below average passing stats, he can ping those hollywood passes because of his trait. Have one or both inverted wingbacks to accompany Hojbjerg when in possession.

Kane doesn't score a lot in this game because he has no pace and can't dribble, but mental stats are superb. Let him roam, press, and give him freedom to make things happen.

Dier is too slow. "Hide" him in midfield if you insist on him starting. Taghanga and Rodon are better suited to partner Sanchez in high line.

Last but not least, Sissoko is average central midfielder, but excellent when played as right-winger in the game.

Edited by jeerinho
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