Match 3: Denmark vs Finland - 5pm (BST) BBC1 live from Copenhagen

[DJ]

I think the Finns weren't exactly playing worry-free either after seeing an opponent going through that. In fact, I think they must have been just as shocked as everyone else and I don't think they had any advantage because of what happened.

As for the game going through: in the end, Eriksen was OK so I think it was correct to finish the game. Would have been much different if he had been in a coma or worse. 

[Haguey]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57458978

Quote

Denmark's Euro 2020 match against Finland should not have restarted after midfielder Christian Eriksen collapsed mid-game, coach Kasper Hjulmand says.

"No, we should not have played," Hjulmand said on Sunday.

"Players have different reactions to shocks and trauma but we'll try to get back to normal as much as possible."

Hjulmand added: "I get the feelings from the players that maybe the time is too short to try to play football again, but maybe we can use it as a force to get together and try to go out and do our best in the next match."

 

[outlander]

20 hours ago, Pukey said:

I mean, the diving situation is awful, I'm not arguing it's not, and I'm all for seeing how we can change it and there's many factors, but your suggestion of booking players if they go down theatrically but aren't injured makes absolutely no sense. How other sports are has absolutely nothing to do with this. How theatrical is too theatrical? How injured is injured? This is my point, it would be absolutely impossible to make fair judgements especially as a player going down holding their ankle but being able to carry on doesn't mean they didn't get hurt.

It would be absolutely possible to make such decisions.  There will be dubious ones and then the players shouldn't  be puniahed but there ia nothing impossible in identifying  a YC offense (already in the rules) of players rolling and lying motionless only to jump up and run full speed when they notice they were not given a decision. 

[VamPook]

Quote

𝗟𝗶𝘃𝗲𝗿𝗽𝗼𝗼𝗹 𝗱𝗲𝗳𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗲𝗿 𝗔𝗻𝗱𝘆 𝗥𝗼𝗯𝗲𝗿𝘁𝘀𝗼𝗻 𝗮𝗱𝗺𝗶𝘁𝘁𝗲𝗱 𝗵𝗲 𝘄𝗮𝘀 𝗮𝗹𝗺𝗼𝘀𝘁 𝗯𝗿𝗼𝘂𝗴𝗵𝘁 𝘁𝗼 𝘁𝗲𝗮𝗿𝘀 𝗯𝘆 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗮𝗰𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻𝘀 𝗼𝗳 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗗𝗲𝗻𝗺𝗮𝗿𝗸 𝘀𝗾𝘂𝗮𝗱 𝗮𝗳𝘁𝗲𝗿 𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀𝘁𝗶𝗮𝗻 𝗘𝗿𝗶𝗸𝘀𝗲𝗻 𝗰𝗼𝗹𝗹𝗮𝗽𝘀𝗲𝗱 𝗱𝘂𝗿𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗶𝗿 𝗴𝗮𝗺𝗲 𝗮𝗴𝗮𝗶𝗻𝘀𝘁 𝗙𝗶𝗻𝗹𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗮𝘁 𝗘𝘂𝗿𝗼 𝟮𝟬𝟮𝟬.

Robertson said: "I'd like to send my well-wishes to Christian Eriksen, his family, all the Danish players, the Danes as a country.”

"What we witnessed was scary for the football community. Luckily the news today is a wee bit more positive.”

"The way the Danish players dealt with what must have been a heart-breaking thing for all of them, they stood up to it.”

"That will be the picture I remember and everyone should remember because, when one of their friends was in a bad place, they stood up and protected him.”

"Whatever else happens in this tournament, for me they will be the heroes. Their captain (Simon Kjaer), it nearly brought a tear to my eye the way he stood up."

 

[Coulthard's Jaw]

 

[Pukey]

What an absolute shambles. Especially the way they worded the statement made it sound like the players specifically asked to play the match. 

[Haguey]

Disgusting but unsurprising.

[GunmaN1905]

How could it be registered 0-3 if both teams refused to play?

 

[Astafjevs]

What were UEFA meant to do? The game had to be played, unless as per above they got agreement from Finland to both forfeit the game together and make UEFA hand out a draw. All this 'forcing' Denmark stuff is silly - Denmark had options. They could have come back the next day if they wanted.

[Haguey]

They could have played the game any time between Saturday and the final round of matches, or even until the first knockout match. It's exceptional circumstances. 

If he had in fact died, they wouldn't have been given this choice. The fact he didn't is amazing but the trauma was and is still there as the way they played showed.

[Astafjevs]

Logistically just not possible though was it. Last round of group matches is Wed 23 Jun.

Finland play on Wed 16 Jun, then again Mon 21 Jun. Denmark on Thu 17 Jun and Mon 21 Jun. There's no time to fit that fixture in, especially with the last group games needing to be played at the same time. Finland had to travel from Denmark to Russia for their second and third games. 

Denmark could have come back the next day, if they wanted more time. 

[Rob1981]

7 minutes ago, Haguey said:

They could have played the game any time between Saturday and the final round of matches, or even until the first knockout match. It's exceptional circumstances.

It's in the tournament rules that an abandoned game has to be played within 24 hours or forfeited.  Think about the world's media, sponsors, all the other team's travel plans etc.  There are tens of thousands of stakeholders, you can't just rip up the tournament schedule and start punting games back to the following week when loads of people are supposed to be somewhere else by then.  Especially when it's spread across 10+ countries this time.  It's harsh on Denmark but it's not like they don't plan for this stuff.  They had the choice whether to carry on or come back the next day.  Really can't do much else.

[Coulthard's Jaw]

I think its more the framing of "THESE HEROIC PLAYERS DECIDED TO RESTART THE GAME ASAP" that sticks in the throat a bit.

[XuluBak]

If UEFA wanted to reschedule the match and move things around, they absolutely could have, but it was humanity/compassion on the line, not money. The spin they put on it afterwards is embarrassing. Entirely unsurprising though. 

 

[Astafjevs]

21 minutes ago, XuluBak said:

If UEFA wanted to reschedule the match and move things around, they absolutely could have, but it was humanity/compassion on the line, not money. The spin they put on it afterwards is embarrassing. Entirely unsurprising though. 

 

How? All I'm reading is 'UEFA could have done xxxx'. How are they moving these games? Not heard anything resembling a workable or sensible solution. 

[Pompeyboyz]

I did actually put a solution a couple of pages back but it is still only a loosely viable option. 

The only reschedulable date that makes sense is the day after the last group matches on the 24th June. It gives Denmark, the nation, enough time to sort out the logistics of getting the match played as well as allowing both teams time to get back to the stadium to play.

It does give the teams and unfair advantage in terms of knowing what's at stake in the match, but I think under the extreme circumstances, some leniency might be given. 

If one of the teams ended up runners up in the group, it puts them at a disadvantage as their match in the 2nd round is on the  26th June while group winners are playing on the 27th June and 3rd place would be 28th or 29th if they were one of them. 

[Astafjevs]

All sounded fine until you mentioned that if one of these teams is runner up in the group - and given how bad Russia are, there's a pretty good chance one of them will be - is playing on 26 Jun. So that team would play in Copenhagen on Thu 24 Jun, then have to catch a flight to Amsterdam to play on Sat 26 Jun. That's ludicrous.

And that's discounting how unfair it is that they go into the last group game knowing what they need to do to progress.

[Haguey]

If Eriksen had died, what do you think would have happened going forwards? No way they get given the same options, and UEFA would have figured it out because defaulting Denmark or forcing them to play would not have been a good look.

Suppose the Danes may have withdrawn but that doesn't help UEFA either.

[Pompeyboyz]

I did say it was only loosely viable and also said that the team had the unfair advantage on the final match. 

[Pompeyboyz]

End of the day, we can pull all the what if scenarios out of our asses, but the match was restarted, under slightly dodgy circumstances, and a result was gained. 

[Rob1981]

8 minutes ago, Haguey said:

If Eriksen had died, what do you think would have happened going forwards? No way they get given the same options, and UEFA would have figured it out because defaulting Denmark or forcing them to play would not have been a good look.

If he'd died they would have played the following day or else Denmark would have withdrawn I reckon.  Just not feasible to do anything else without massive knock-on effects all over Europe for all the other teams and the broadcast arrangements and stuff.  When Foe died at the Confederations Cup, they played the final three days later as planned.  When Togo's team were attacked at the African Nations Cup they pulled out of the tournament.  There just isn't any breathing space in the calendar when these things need to be micro managed to the nth degree.

 

[Orzelek]

The only thing which could've been concidered besides the three options given, was to allow the game to be played Sunday evening, instead of demanding it being played Sunday noon. 

[rafaelbenitez]

 

[DJ]

I'm already getting sick of all the 'UEFA SCUM' media hype. UEFA had no choice either. Should they cancel the entire tournament because of this or what? If not, you need to resolve the situation one way or the other in the small time frame available and no matter how you do it, Denmark will either have to play or retire from the tournament. And that's completely up to them. If they feel they can't play, everyone fully understands and they should be allowed to bow out and no one will hold it against them. 
And I still have a feeling that Denmark, sorry, but that is really how I feel, feel they lost because they were at a disadvantage, whereas I maintain that the Finnish players must have been just as shocked.

[Heartwork]

The Denmark coach made a valid point about how if a player tests positive for Covid then the game is postponed for 48 hours, but if a player has a cardiac arrest and nearly dies then you have to finish the game either on the night or the next day.

[outlander]

26 minutes ago, Heartwork said:

The Denmark coach made a valid point about how if a player tests positive for Covid then the game is postponed for 48 hours

Is it the procedure for EUROs? Can't understand how do they expect to manage this.

Edited June 15, 2021 by outlander

[Heartwork]

3 minutes ago, outlander said:

Is it the procedure for EUROs. Can't understand how do they expect to manage this.

Yeah then why not give them 48 hours for a player nearly dying? You seem to have forgotten that part of my post.

EDIT misread. Yes, UEFA rules allow 48 hour delays to games if one side has a player/players who test positive for Covid.

Edited June 15, 2021 by Heartwork

[DJ]

24 minutes ago, Heartwork said:

The Denmark coach made a valid point about how if a player tests positive for Covid then the game is postponed for 48 hours, but if a player has a cardiac arrest and nearly dies then you have to finish the game either on the night or the next day.

No disrespect, but heart attacks aren't contagious.

[Heartwork]

8 minutes ago, DJ said:

No disrespect, but heart attacks aren't contagious.

The mental health implications are severe though

[DJ]

1 minute ago, Heartwork said:

The mental health implications are severe though

That's not the point of the 48 hours thing. 

[Rob1981]

The 48 hours thing is if they have 10+ players going down with covid or something, only for if someone literally has to ship a replacement team across from another country.

[Tony85]

Also people are forgetting that the 48 hour rule for Covid isn't neccessarily a UEFA decision. It's probably something forced on them by governments to try to stop an outbreak spreading.

If UEFA had their way they'd probably make them play as well.

[arenaross]

 

 

[Heartwork]

Suppose that does mean there is a small chance he can play again, as Blind has something similar. But the psychological effect will still be there. It's tough to get over a trauma like that, even if he doesn't realise it at first. He literally died for a few minutes.

[The_jagster]

It depends on what the condition is that requires the ICD, but I am genuinely amazed that Blind is still playing.

Johan Vansummeren had to retire from cycling after getting arrhythmias, typically the dangerous heart activity in younger people tends to be triggered when your heart rate is working at full capacity, eg in elite sport.

Btw from what the doctor said it didn't seem like a few minutes, he had a pulse when the medics first reached him and the first defibrillation worked when his heart stopped.

[Baptista_8]

1 hour ago, Heartwork said:

Suppose that does mean there is a small chance he can play again, as Blind has something similar. But the psychological effect will still be there. It's tough to get over a trauma like that, even if he doesn't realise it at first. He literally died for a few minutes.

I don't know how Blind continues to play tbh.

[GunmaN1905]

8 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said:

I don't know how Blind continues to play tbh.

I think countries have different policies.

After all those tragic cases, Italian rules are really strict. If Eriksen's device is permanent, he wouldn't be allowed to play in Italy.

[Baptista_8]

Just now, GunmaN1905 said:

I think countries have different policies.

After all those tragic cases, Italian rules are really strict. If Eriksen's device is permanent, he wouldn't be allowed to play in Italy.

I didn't mean rules wise, I meant Blind himself psychologically.

[GunmaN1905]

2 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said:

I didn't mean rules wise, I meant Blind himself psychologically.

I know, but what can you do about it?

If Blind has a device and it can happen at any second, there's no escaping it.

Better for it to happen on the pitch than while sleeping, like it happened to Astori.

[DJ]

2 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

I think countries have different policies.

After all those tragic cases, Italian rules are really strict. If Eriksen's device is permanent, he wouldn't be allowed to play in Italy.

Odd. I mean: if the doctors say he is OK now and the player wants to, what is to say against it? You think for example Cech would have been disallowed in Italy?

[Baptista_8]

1 minute ago, GunmaN1905 said:

I know, but what can you do about it?

If Blind has a device and it can happen at any second, there's no escaping it.

Better for it to happen on the pitch than while sleeping, like it happened to Astori.

[GunmaN1905]

2 minutes ago, DJ said:

Odd. I mean: if the doctors say he is OK now and the player wants to, what is to say against it? You think for example Cech would have been disallowed in Italy?

Chivu played with a helmet, so Cech would be fine.

It's just that Italian laws about athletes with heart issues are by far the most rigorous. Too many tragic cases happened for them to allow any more players risking it.

[The_jagster]

2 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

I know, but what can you do about it?

If Blind has a device and it can happen at any second, there's no escaping it.

Better for it to happen on the pitch than while sleeping, like it happened to Astori.

Often there is a way of escaping it, namely not doing vigorous exercise. There are a few famous examples of players collapsing on the pitch and much fewer of players dying in their sleep.

Again, I don't know the specifics of Blind's case but in most cases the ICD being triggered will be a very rare event in normal life.

[DJ Sir Matthew]

Belgian soccer player Anthony Van Loo had a cardiac arrest in 2008 orso, had a defibrillator fit and played another 10 years, having a cardiac twice (2009 & 2018), in both cases saved by the heart starter device. After the last one, he had to undergo another operation and then decided to stop while still playing at the highest level in Belgium.

[The_jagster]

12 hours ago, The_jagster said:

It depends on what the condition is that requires the ICD, but I am genuinely amazed that Blind is still playing.

Johan Vansummeren had to retire from cycling after getting arrhythmias, typically the dangerous heart activity in younger people tends to be triggered when your heart rate is working at full capacity, eg in elite sport.

Btw from what the doctor said it didn't seem like a few minutes, he had a pulse when the medics first reached him and the first defibrillation worked when his heart stopped.

Reading into it Blind had/has myocarditis which comes under cardiomyopathy whereas I was familiar with hypertrophic cardiomyopathy and ARVC as affecting young athletes.

It seems like that is not a chronic/genetic condition in the same way but an inflammation that may go away. Maybe it's because I'm searching in English but I can't see what Van Loo's condition was.

[arenaross]